Bally 1114 MGM payout counter issue??

[DimondD]

Hello,
I am brand new here. If I posted in wrong forum I am sorry!! So I got this 1114  off CL and tinkering with it got it going. I dont have a manual that seems adequate but maybe someone could advise?? Well if it hits any payout it keeps paying i find that clicking the washer spaced part multiple times stops the hopper but I'm sorry I dont see a motor that moves that external wheel on payout (it has the external payout, not on the hopper) counter or the way it spring loads and moves?? Please help I love this hobby !!! I need a 1114 specific manual. I am wondering if I'm missing parts although it seems complete. Will post pics soon its a MGM

[Amachanic]

Hello and      Pictures are always helpful in us helping you... Check the stop bumper on the hoppers spiral cam.. That relay/blade switch needs to open once the hoppers starts to pay out. Sometimes what happers is that rubber bumper becomes sticky and the switch will remain closed when the hopper pays out causing problems.. also make sure you have enought coins in the hopper to cover the jackpot won or your machine will run till the hopper times out..

Gary

[DimondD]

Oh boy I have 2 exploded  pics with descriptions and dont see a description titled hoppers spiral cam but I'll find it and check it LOL.. I'll check that and update pics off phone soon. I am in Seattle Wa!! I need one of those rubber hopper agitators also as mine is a icky black mess where do i find those??

[Amachanic]

Oh boy I have 2 exploded  pics with descriptions and dont see a description titled hoppers spiral cam but I'll find it and check it LOL.. I'll check that and update pics off phone soon. I am in Seattle Wa!! I need one of those rubber hopper agitators also as mine is a icky black mess where do i find those??

Foxsslots carries them. There is a link to his store on the home page. They don't make the hopper bumper any more. I've heard on people using a pencil eraser. I have found a nice replacement for that bumper of you need one. You should be able to advance the spiral cam by lifting the lever on the top of the hopped. Watch and see if the zero switch is opening. Then push the plunger on the solenoid inside behind the cam. Your spiral cam should spin back to zero closing the switch.

Gary

[DimondD]

Is this the one your advice applies too??

[DimondD]

This is piece I fool with to stop payout I click washer piece multiple times

[DimondD]

Is this a 6 star disintegrated or a 3 star messy??

[DimondD]

Maybe a little messy not really sticky?? How much should be there sticking out of metal? Seems like a small gap to trow switch and movement there thanks for leading me tto problem what should I do now? Cleaning cam area but it wasnt bad. Before I put back together thought i wwould solicit more guidance

[DimondD]

So I cleaned it. It's not sticky i have a eraser I could use but not sure what size it should be. Anyway the switch opens and closes when cam rotates it would seem by observing. I put everything back together and still it dosnt stop on payout unless I bump the part with the washer spacers on it multiple times?? What should I check next. Also is there a files section on here ?? I cant seem to find. Just upload files not access

Thanks again for any and all help

[Amachanic]

Maybe a little messy not really sticky?? How much should be there sticking out of metal? Seems like a small gap to trow switch and movement there thanks for leading me tto problem what should I do now? Cleaning cam area but it wasnt bad. Before I put back together thought i wwould solicit more guidance

The rubber bumper sticks out of the metal holder about 1/8"-3/16".. You might have to adjust it up or down a bit if you replace it to make your switch open and pay out correctly..

[DimondD]

Thanks for measurements its not sticking though and the switch opens and closes what else could it be it i bump washer spaced part it stops spitting the endless quarters

[OldReno]

Make sure the wires to your step up solenoid (the washer guy) are both connected. If they are not, the solenoid will not step up.  (it will runaway)
Read section on EM's on using jumpers, you should be able to make a jumper and test that coil. Or you can ohm it out with your meter.
Try pays with 1 coin in, 2 coins, 3 coins, and see if it runs away on all of those situations.
Check your plugs and all wires to your payout assembly, to make sure one of them is not broken or pulled out of plug.
Keep at it, we'll be here to offer suggestions.
If the washer-guy never steps, it will always runaway. It is what makes the payboard step up, and when it steps up far enough, then it stops paying.

[DimondD]

All the wires look fine adn I dont see any broken parts the coil resistances I just read as follows off the payout board. the bottom coil that has the washers on its actuator facing forward is coil #  B-25-925a reads 1.7 ohms. THe upper coil theat disengages the wheel at the top coil # C-28-1100 reads 14.8 ohms. Are either of these defective?? I read another coil in door and it was around 2 but I dont know.. Please advise. I am still hitting on 1 quarter but have a feeling 2 and 3 would do the same

[OldReno]

Try a pay with 2 coins in and then 3 coins. It only takes a minute, and could give us info on if the problem is in your odds disc.
Or not, but at least we'll know....
I honestly don't remember what the ohms on a 925 should be, but now we know it's not open and it's not shorted (though it seems a bit low in resistance).
It sounds like you have a break in the circuitry between your coin out (pulse) switches, and to the step up payboard coil (the b925)  When the coin passes under the roller, those pulse switches send a pulse to the B925.  If the pulse doesn't get there, the payboard cannot step up, and that makes your runaway.  Trace the wires from your pulse switches to the B925.  It probably goes through the odds disc also, and that too may be where the problem lies. Use your VOM point to point for best accuracy.
Keep at it, we'll be here....

[DimondD]

I'll try 2 and 3 quarters tonight.I have a feeling the results will be the same though. Is the odds disc the assembly kinda middle left?? above hopper below reels?? I have sat there watching it run. and only once have I seen the "odds discs" advance. I saw the roller the coins pass under but didnt see the switch it trips. Not having good literature dosnt help but your guys advice is great. I'll look for switch and multi coin issues tonight. Cant wait to report when the problem is fixed !!!


Thanks again

[Amachanic]

Check and see if the switch on the hopper that count each coin being paid out is working or in adjustment. It's found on the top of the hopper. It's a black switch with a long silver metal trip arm. That. Switch needs to click once for every coin paid out. Some hopper have an adjusting screw on the end of  the arm with the roller that the coin passes under, other machine you need to bent the switches lever.

[DimondD]

The switches move though the points might be dirty. What is best way to cleanThe wiring looks good everywere. I snapped these 2 pics on way out door for work. Is there a wiring diagram for this unit someone can send me??  Is there something missing from Hopper in second pic?

[DimondD]

Here.are the other 2. I don't see solenoid move on payout counter but a wiring diagram or service manual would be great

[OldReno]

Yes, those are your coin-out, or pulse switches.  Generally there is an adjusting screw with a lock-nut right at the top there (where you can see the threaded hole in your photo -- photos are helpful!)
If those switches don't close when a coin passes out, then of course it will run away.  However, it looks ok, and you did say that they move.  You can tell by running a coin passing through the coin-out roller and take a quick look to see if that closes the switches well.  If so, you may not need that adjusting screw, so in that case don't worry about it.  They don't get dirty very often, but you can clean them if you want.
There are 3 ways of making hoppers step up.  One is a purely mechanical linkage.  The second is like yours, and uses contact switches with a step up solenoid, and the 3rd way is the double up machine which used both a mechanical linkage along with a holding solenoid to keep the linkage down while waiting for second coin out. (they are pretty rare)

The odds disc is a round board with little spider fingers on it.  It should reset when you push down on the coin in switch one time.  On the second push (or second coin in) your odds unit should step one time.  On 3rd coin it should step one more time.  Make sure the little spider fingers are making good contact with the disc.  Lift them up with a small screwdriver or your fingernail, and listen for them to make a good click/snap sound when you release them.  Your X units are two little round wheels attached to a mounting bracket with a solenoid on each one.  They step around during coins out, and will control the hopper payboard, and allow it to step up.  They are not used if only 1 coin is played.

The reason you should try pays with 2 and 3 cons in is to check these X units to see if they are working.  This may help us diagnose your problems.

[OldReno]

Sorry, posted after your last post, and didn't see it.  Your picture #0681 is your delay relay.  It times out the machine during a runaway.  There are 120V switches on it, so don't be dicking around and poking it with your finger....  All it does is turn on your safety timer motor which shuts off the machine eventually.  Doesn't have anything to do with pays.
The black switch next to your delay relay coil is your hopper level switch.  That tells coins in to go to the drop bucket when the hopper is full.

PS, the step up solenoid on your payout counter is attached to the washer guy on the payboard. It's behind the board, and you can remove the screw holding that whole assembly and set it out so you can see it.  In most machines, the hopper payboard is ON the hopper, but your machine has it separated and placed on the pan, apart from the hopper.  this may lead to some confusion, but electrically they are one unit, even tho' physically separate....

[DimondD]

Awesome advice. I feel sick and have to go home early
LOL. can anyone point me to a manual and or wire diagram on 1114. I think made in 1976

[DimondD]

My latest observations. So when its 2 or 3 coins it still pays out non stop. One time I got it to stop as I rapidly moved the coin out roller upwards but that seems to have been a fluke. One time i saw arc from contact closing but as it throws coins it opens and closes fine. The odds wheel does step different positions per coin to 3 but when it hit on 2 or 3 coin the 2 solenoid 2 wheel bracket to right of odds wheel X unit ?? does not move on a 2 or 3 coin payout. I'm not full of coins because I have new agitator on the way but I have enough to pay out without kicking on the time out. DO the 2 coils on payout counter share the same common orange? I see continuity between them. THere is no activity of plungers on payout wheel unless it is manual from me pushing it ! What about ice cube relay?? I tried tracing the wires. but I need a diagram

[Amachanic]

Quick question... Did you check the relays / blade switches on the hopper using an OHM meter to make sure they are working correctly? I have had contacts look like they were working but when I check them with my meter they were dirty and not making connections.

Gary

[DimondD]

I am suspicious of them. They arent the easiest to read. I will bring in and ck now

[DimondD]

OK is it 2 open yellow to browns top and bottom that close with each quarter? My bottom set of Brown w orange stripe to yellow is closed in both positions. The top yellow to double brown opens and closes with continuity