Bally 1114 MGM payout counter issue??

[DimondD]

I took apart the switch and its not shorted so its closed on the other end of those wires and not affected by the points opening and closing. So... I the traced the brown and  orange striped to another group of switches on hopper. The coil for that group has 43 ohms and if i manually push it and trigger quarter roller lower switch does open!! See pic below

[DimondD]

Here are more pics

[OldReno]

OK, go look at your picture 0682.  On the left is your roller.  In the center is the pivot point.  On the right is the extension that hits the switches.  During a pay, push down on the extension on the right, fully, to make sure the switches contact.  If the machine counts when you do it that way, then your coins are not pushing up the roller enough to close the switches completely.
Since you said when you lift the roller, you see the switches arc, it appears it works IF the roller is lifted high enough.
Try this, and push down on the extension just like there would be coins coming out. The switches may arc a little bit, but don't worry about that.
It may just be that you're missing the adjusting screw at the end of your extension, and the switches don't close enough to step the payboard.
I'm betting this is the whole problem.
But I've been know to be wrong.

[DimondD]

One time it worked by me simulating downward push. But not since then I just counted 50 pushes on low pay only once that stopped it without timing out. The throw seems enough witjout screw but that bottom switch with orange stripe dosnt open unless switch pic 688 coil is enefirgized. I tested with continuity. Only once did I see a spark on coin roller switch and that time it did work properly. I'm not afraid of live tests but I don't want to make anything worse

[OldReno]

Well, so much for easy solutions, I guess.  (And I was wrong...)
Start tracing back the wire from your payboard step up solenoid (the washer guy). Trace the NON-orange wire, whatever it is, and find out where it goes. Ohm it from plug to plug, and wiggle the wires when you can to see if they are separating.  Eventually that wire (it may change color through other switches) should end up back at your hopper pulse switches.  Right now that's all I can think of, and that's how I'd probably tackle this problem.  It is running away because your payboard step up solenoid is not getting a pulse most likely.
You can also use a jumper wire to test that solenoid.  Clip your jumper onto the solid yellow wire on your transformer, and touch the other end to the NON-orange wire on your step up solenoid.  When you do that it should pulse the solenoid.  That's the quickest check I know for testing coils.  You can check all your 50V coils that way, but make sure they're 50V.  They will have orange wire on one side.  Coils without orange are probably 120V.  Read post in electromechanical section on using jumper wires....  You can also use them to check bulbs, etc.
Keep at it, we're still here....

[DimondD]

It's just not that easy. Now I followed the non orange which is small red with brown mark from payout stepper (washer thing)thru the odds wheel spider fingers. I took odds wheel down and cleaned all contacts on it with alcohol and reassembled. Still same results. the contact spider wheel goes to a group of switches that are kinda hard to get to but on backside of fingered wheel. (See pics)

Also I tried measuring the double large yellow on top of transformer to ground and didnt see the 50 VAC but hopper wasnt in etc. Is it possible the 50 VACisnt there? Or am i measuring at the wrong points? Yellow to ground or yellow to ?? YEs the fuses are good and I have continuity on back side of housings LOL..Also if i check continuity on any of those coils or that "red with brown mark" to ground it is complete circuit. Is this a shorted coil?? OR bad transformer?? I could so use a wiring diagram. I dont want to blow it up and need more parts !! I dont think I have the 50 VAC but all other functions are there like in door coin divert etc, etc.

I'll post more pics from phone in a second

It's interesting to see what is a timer like any washing machine etc but all seperated into different pieces everywhere. Technology has made some things easier but taken the art out of it I guess you could say..

[DimondD]

Thanks for giving all the help

[DimondD]

Which wires are which voltages? Point A to B ??

[OldReno]

Running around today, so I'll get back to you this evening.
There is no ground on the Bally, other than the ac line in going to case.
All voltages are used without ground.  You cannot measure between case and voltages.
The yellow wire on transformer is common between the 50V coil circuits (orange wire), and the 6V light circuits (blue wire)
Measure V on transformer between yellow and orange, and then yellow and blue.  Yellow is the return(?) line for both voltages.
If you get measure between circuits, and case, then you have a short. All circuits should be isolated from case.  Read on EM section posts about shorts, and also using jumpers....
Back with you later, sorry busy right now.

[DimondD]

Where are the files?? Where are the FAQS? ? I can't find eithwr and I only see upload files where do u download???

[OldReno]

The posts are in Forum, under Reel slots, under Bally Electromechanical (where this thread is)  Scroll down and you'll see some posts started by me.  They are mostly about theory and repair procedures.  It would probably be easier if they were all in one little section, but I don't know how to arrange those posts, so as it is they're scattered around with all the other Electromechanical  posts. They might help give you a little better idea on EM theory.... I just kinda post them as I have time to write them.  I haven't uploaded anything, because I'm computer illiterate and would probably screw it up, so I just start threads in forum.

[OldReno]

DimonD, pm me with your address.  I have a 1088 schematic that Darryll (CVS slots) was kind enough to turn me on to.  I can send it to you.  While it does not show the X-units, etc., it may give you an idea of what's going on with the Bally.  They are generally very very similar, with just slight differences/additions. Some have more circuits, some less, but they all work basically the same.
It sounds like you've got enough gumption to be able to use it, and certainly enough persistence....

[DimondD]

Not sure i'm closer or farther away

So if I switch the ice cube relay in the hopper with the one in the door and click the coin roller switch it goes into tilt almost imediatelly. As well the cube from hopper is buzzing but I dont notice any other difference .. But the reverse as originally the case times out.. THanks for 50 VAC i jumped and bumped washer payout coil.. But a coil with 2 black wires a resistor and a ceramic ..... is that 120 VAC cause i wanna bump them too.. Obviously I will replace all 3 cube relays but why is tilt coming on when i bump coin roller now??? Does foxs have relays or who is good vedor and are all 3 the same like L4 30w something i think...??

[OldReno]

They used 2 different voltages on those coils (cubes), one is 50V, the other is 120V.  Read the voltages, and don't swap the wrong voltage in.  They should be labelled....
You can pop the covers off those to clean the switches, etc.  Use a small screwdriver or knife under the tabs.
I wouldn't mess around jumping 120V coils without REAL care and someone around to unplug machine if/when you short yourself across it....as a rule of thumb, orange wires are 50V, black wires are 120V. Be careful first, and adventurous second.
If coin roller is held up too long, that may tilt machine.

[DimondD]

Well. SO my ice cube relay issue. I cleaned the contacts inside it today. there are 4 poles that complete when energized. There was one contact in there that was bad and now ok. As when I swapped the hopper and door cube relays the tilt light is on. I can clear it with reset but it comes right back.I can spin wheel in tilt but NOW in payout i have to reet and reset and it still wants to pay regardless of coin count... SO I went from intrigued to challenged to confused and back to intrigued again. WHat a weird one. The cube relay point hadf something to do with tilt light but now that thats fixed tilt is on and symptoms are same but different.. Please advise ??? I got my new Auger today from Fox's thanks.. Wish I woulda got those relays too : ( I think my cube is ok I ohmed out all 4 points to the open and closed position after cleaning contacts.. NOw what !@@!#!$@@

[OldReno]

Well, I presume then your encapsulated relays are all the same voltage.
Go ahead and find out which one is keeping your tilt lite on by unplugging to see which cube turns it off.  I guess that when the tilt lite is on, the relay is energized.  If so, trace back the wire that goes to the (cubes) coil, and that's probably where the problem is....

[DimondD]

Actually what I mean is that tilt light is leding to the problem I think but i dont what the clues add up too. You see the tilt light hasnt been on because of the contact in cube relay on hopper now it is on which really always has been a symptom unknown like a burnt out bulb. So now why is tilt on >>? and what does it have to do with nonstop payout or no advancement of payout solenoid, (washer thingy) Does that make any more sense??

[DimondD]

and should it accept coins on a tilt cause mine still does it will spin too it just requires pushing tilt reset when payout hits. then bump washer thing like usual

[OldReno]

Not sure what your tilt relay does, try pulling out the ice cube and see if machine still works. Probably the relay should be normally off, and I suspect it might be turned on when your coin out roller is held up too long.  Perhaps there is an R/C network somewhere that times out after coin roller is up too long.  Trace the wire to the coil running your ice cube relay and try to find out where it goes.
You might have a switch somewhere that should be normally open that is stuck or misadjusted closed.  Each separate set of switches should be able to fully open and fully close at some point.  Try to find one that shows normally closed all the time and that may be the bad one.
Keep at it, sounds like you're doing fine.
If you want you can put a piece of paper in between a closed switch's contacts to see how that affects the machine's operation.  There's lots and lots of switches in there you can do that with...makes for a great self-teaching tool, but be sure to remove paper when you're done checking.
You may also have some slam switches somewhere in the machine, like on the pinball machines that tilt it when the case is banged.  It should look like an independent switch with a small weight on one end.  If you find one, but a piece of paper in it if it's normally closed.  Or if it's normally open, adjust it closed. But I doubt you have one on there.

One last thought, if you're doing all this with door open, try playing it with door closed until you get a pay, and see if it reacts the same way.  Or find your door open switch, and close it to simulate door closed.

[DimondD]

Anyone have a flow chart or wire diagrams for Bally 1114  machine. Im just nit getting it figured out.. if I simulate quarter it tilts I think lower switch on coin roller not opening with coin eject as i flick and tilt it.  So I can adjust with screw to open with quarters but why is it tilting??  Please help with literature

[OldReno]

DimonD, sorry I totally forgot to send you schematic.  Will do that in next day or so, but it's not the same model as yours, tho' it should help a little.
Are you lifting up the roller QUICKLY?  Too slowly may cause tilt.
Also, to check your switches correctly, if the roller is down (no coin -- in normal position), then the switches set one way. Either open or closed.  When the roller lifts (coin going out) they should reverse.  No switch should be open all the time, or closed all the time.  All you need to do is make sure they change state when a coin goes under the roller.
I don't know that there is a flow chart for 1114, or any others for that matter, but we are still here and will keep at it as long as you keep at it.
Does the tilt affect the machine's play, or is it that it just turns on?  Sorry I get lost between posts, and don't have time right now to read all the threads.
Summarize again just what the problems are, as completely as you can.
And reread all the threads here to check that you have tried all our suggestions.
Hang in there.