S+ Double Diamond 3300 Error

[kkirtley63]

Hi. I'm a new owner of an IGT Double Diamonds slot machine.

They guy who sold me this had 137 credits on it...I wanted to start from scratch. So, I loaded up 300 quarters or so in the hopper and hit the cash out button. About 40 quarters came out and it got the 3300 error. Open/close the door and 40 more quarters come out and same error (rinse, repeat). Meanwhile the whole time the Credits window is not reducing and the Winner Paid is not increasing...only after multiple times, 2 credits were removed and 2 appeared in the Winner Paid window. Still have 135 credits appearing and it never reduces as the quarters spit out.

Guessing, based on this thread, that the hopper coin-out optic is malfunctioning...any advise on how to fix?

Thanks so much in advance!!

Ken from Denver.

[Foster]

I doubt you have bad optics, you would get a 3200 error coin out jam

[knagl]

I doubt you have bad optics, you would get a 3200 error coin out jam

Are you positive about that, Foster?  There's an error code (34_0) specific to "hopper optics blocked" which is different from the 3200 Coin Jam in Hopper error (which nobody has seemed to have a definitive answer as to what causes that).


Regardless, for the situation for Ken, I'd suspect that he might have a dollar coin hopper, or the hopper optics are horribly out of alignment causing the quarters to fly out without going through the optics.

3300 is a Hopper Empty message, which means that the machine is spinning the hopper but it is not detecting any coins coming out.  After about ten seconds it gives up and displays that error.

Ken, can you turn the power off and remove your hopper and take a picture or two of it to post here?  Perhaps we can see what's happening to cause the machine to not see the coins going by.

 

Also, see if you can see why the quarters that come out aren't tripping the optics.  The optics are a one-piece small black horseshoe shaped piece with a couple of wires coming off of them.  Coins must pass through the opening of the horseshoe as they leave the hopper in order to be counted.

(IGT also modified some hoppers with a security feature that moved the optics further away from the coin tray.  On those security enhanced hoppers, exiting coins trip a small metal arm, which then in turn trips the coin-out/hopper optics once for each coin that exits.  If you happen to have one of those, make sure that the metal arm is aligned properly to trip the optics as coins exit the hopper.)


Here's a picture of what the actual optic part looks like.  It will be secured to your hopper with a screw or bolt:

[kkirtley63]

Thanks so much for the quick reply!

Yes, I will take a pic tonight when I get home from work. You may be right, as the hoppper had $.25 written on it and its scratched out, with 1$ written in its place. My optics sensor appears to have a guard on it, which I believe just needs a phillips screwdriver to remove.

Will post pic around 4 pm MST.

Thanks again!!

Ken

[mvco]

Could also be a hopper knife going bad, that seems to happen here frequently.

[knagl]

Could also be a hopper knife going bad, that seems to happen here frequently.

If the knife was bad, coins wouldn't be coming out of the hopper properly.   

[poppo]

Possibly the wrong shelf wheel causing coins to pass under the optics and out, but enough to trigger it once in a while to keep the 3300 from triggering right away. Typically either the optics work or they don't and are not usually intermittent.

The optics may be directly over the coin chute, or if newer, are on the opposite side and are triggered by a pivoting arm  (anti-tamper device). If the arm is broken or not functioning properly, it can cause issues too.

The circled part is the roller that the coin pushes up as it passes under it on the way out. Sometimes that roller falls off. The arrow points to the other side of the arm that moves up to trigger (block) the optics as a coin goes through. There may be a cover over this part. Click on picture to enlarge.

[shortrackskater]

The circled part is the roller that the coin pushes up. The arrow point to the other side of the arm that moves up to trigger (block) the optics as a coin goes through. There may be a cover over this part. Click on picture to enlarge.

I had trouble with mine, not counting coins, and found a big chunk of LINT inside the cover.

[kkirtley63]

Knagl/Poppo,

Thanks for the advice. The pics helped! It appears the roller was not going up high enough to block the optics. I'm sure its a $1 hopper. I taped a piece of cardboard on the roller...now it works fine. Is there a more permanent solution? Bigger roller? Or do i have to get a quarter hopper? Here's some pics

Thanks...you guys rock

[poppo]

Is there a more permanent solution? Bigger roller? Or do i have to get a quarter hopper?

Just get a quarter shelf wheel (the disc the coin sits on as it rides around) so the coins will ride higher. And best to also get a quarter pinwheel too. The quarter pinwheel will have more "nubs" and thus the coins will come out faster.

[kkirtley63]

Oops! Hit the big jackpot ...now what? How do I clear this out?

[poppo]

Oops! Hit the big jackpot ...now what? How do I clear this out?

If it's a hand pay, just turn the jackpot reset key. If it all went to credits, you can pull the CMOS off of the MPU and reinsert it. Then just clear the errors you will get. Be sure the machine is powered down before pulling the MPU.

[kkirtley63]

Thanks! Reset key worked! Any suggestions on the best place to get new shelf wheel and pin wheel?
 

[poppo]

Put a WTB in the classifieds here. Or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IGT-HOPPER-25-CENT-SHELF-WHEEL-LOT-OF-4-/120785460038

[Neonkiss]

Is there a more permanent solution? Bigger roller? Or do i have to get a quarter hopper?

Just get a quarter shelf wheel (the disc the coin sits on as it rides around) so the coins will ride higher. And best to also get a quarter pinwheel too. The quarter pinwheel will have more "nubs" and thus the coins will come out faster.

To go from dollar to quarte you need to remove the roller assembly. The optics just mount on the plastic case. Otherwise the optic is still too high to regester the quarter. even with a quarter shelf wheel.
I had to convert about 30 of these.

[poppo]

To go from dollar to quarte you need to remove the roller assembly. The optics just mount on the plastic case. Otherwise the optic is still too high to regester the quarter. even with a quarter shelf wheel.
I had to convert about 30 of these.

Huh?    The picture I posted above is with a quarter shelf wheel and it has the roller and works just as it's supposed to. A dollar shelf wheel is smaller and hence the problem. Or am I missing something in your explanation?

Now if you are saying to remove the whole rocker assembly and flip the optic to the other side, it "might" work, but why not just do it the right way?

[coorslight115]

Guess I should read a little closer...but if you need a quarter shelf wheel and you have a half dollar or dollar shelf wheel now, I will trade you wheels and you pay shipping both ways. No charge for the wheel. PM me if interested.

[Neonkiss]

To go from dollar to quarte you need to remove the roller assembly. The optics just mount on the plastic case. Otherwise the optic is still too high to regester the quarter. even with a quarter shelf wheel.
I had to convert about 30 of these.

Huh?    The picture I posted above is with a quarter shelf wheel and it has the roller and works just as it's supposed to. A dollar shelf wheel is smaller and hence the problem. Or am I missing something in your explanation?

Now if you are saying to remove the whole rocker assembly and flip the optic to the other side, it "might" work, but why not just do it the right way?

Poppo,
Yes, you need to remove the entire rocker assembly when using small coin.
If not even with the correct shelf wheel the optic will sit too high and coin acceptance is less than 50%
It’s all part of the conversion of going from large coin to small coin. Just like moving the location of the coin acceptor bracket and changing the position of the plastic CC holders.

If you have a picture of your set up working with small coin and the roller still attached I would love to see it.

[poppo]

Yes, you need to remove the entire rocker assembly when using small coin.

If you have a picture of your set up working with small coin and the roller still attached I would love to see it.

I disagree. The rocker thing is an anti-tamper device.

Both of my machines (and spare hopper) are quarter machines and have the roller/rocker assembly and work exactly like they are intended. Of course they have the correct shelf wheel and knife.  

I already posted a picture above, but here is another one. As you can see the quarter clearly pushes the roller up just fine. The "flag" on the other side blocks the optics just as well as a coin would. Never had any miss-counts.

<edit> I added a second picture of the optic side. Note the circled area. No problem with the rocker blocking the optics with quarters. If yours are not working with the rocker, there must be something else wrong.

 Click to enlarge.

[Neonkiss]

Thanks for the pictures.

Here you can see my setup. All my hoppers are the same and will not work with the roller for small coin. The flag dosen't even come close to hitting the optics. I then have to remove the roller assembly and lower the optice to the back plate as shown in the manual.

[Neonkiss]

Here with the optic mounted directly to the back plate like the manual shows.
Never had an issue since.

[Jim]

when the IGT machines first hit the market,  the optic was mounted  just as NEONKISS picture shows.   Someone figured out  if you shinned a laser pen on the optics during a payout , it would empty the hopper. So they came up with the covered hood device to offset that problem.

I take every one off of my machines, mount the optic directly to the housing. If you have the proper shelf wheel and knife adjustment  you will never have a counting problem.  The only thing you have to pay attention too is the length of the screw  you use. If it's to long it will interfer with the pinwheel.


Jim   

[poppo]

Interesting. I don't know why the rocker would not work with nickels. But I've never used them and don't know if there is a different knife. As for the original poster's issue, I'm not sure if flipping the optics would work if he has a shelf wheel for large dollars. I suppose he could try it and see.

[Jim]

the bottom line is this!   either way you use the optics, with or without the roller and hood, you still need the proper shelf and pin wheel  for the coin you are using. IGT did make two types of knives, one for small coin,  usually  1 cent  through   50 cent coin  and the other for larger coins,  dollar and larger type  tokens.

a dollar shelf wheel will not work with a small coin, no matter what you do ,you will always have problems.  get the correct shelf wheel and pin wheel and knife and you  will not have problems.


Jim

[stayouttadabunker]

when the IGT machines first hit the market,  the optic was mounted  just as NEONKISS picture shows.   Someone figured out  if you shinned a laser pen on the optics during a payout , it would empty the hopper. So they came up with the covered hood device to offset that problem.
Jim  

The interesting thing about the laser pen cheating method is that they came up with a different one too!

This "sliding lever" device that worked by pushing and pulling a small lever with your thumb to interact with the hopper optics timing so the device would not set off the [3300] error code.
It was very well designed so that the edge of the device sat on the top edge of the hopper next to the optics
and by using your thumb - you could effectively block the eye optics to fool the MPU into thinking that
the hopper only paid out one coin.
As the operator counted and reached 3-4 seconds, they pulled back the slide to allow one or two coins to go through then blocked the optics again to stop the coin counting - however, allowing yet more coins to pass through the optics.
Of course, all the cheat needed was a small win of at least 15-20 coins, to effectively wipe out
the hopper contents without forcing an error code or alarms.

I was working a shift late one night in the casino security room
and noticed something kind of unusual going on.
For some reason there were 3 errors within an hour so I scanned the room
and found this group.
We were getting a really large amount of [I may be wrong on the exact code number 3200?] errors.
Normally, we didn't get more than 3 errors in an entire 24 hour period!!!

Anyways, there was a group of 3 people hovering over an S+ machine in one corner of the gaming room.
The inexperienced cheats were caught when they fumbled
and forced the MPU to create errors...that threw the red flags in my mind in the security room!

Apparently they left the device's slide in between the optics for too long of an interval - creating error codes.
So, they would jump to a nearby machine.
That was mistake number one - they should have left after the 1st error code security breach !!!
I kept the PTZ cam on them for about another 20 minutes or so to record and see how they operated in tandem.
It was such fun as I notified and sent the security down there to apprehend them.
I knew exactly what to going to unfold but I HAD to see their expressions on their faces
as the security came walking briskly towards them!  
To personally help catch the slot thieves with his two accomplices red-handed with the device AND money with Pelco PTZ cameras was so much fun!

One woman that acted as a "camera blocker" had nearly $400 in coins
in her rather large leather purse that had a leather shoulder strap!
She tried to run but dropped the bag and the coins came flying out all over the gaming floor!
Beside the coins that remained IN THE BAG - was the cheating "sliding lever" device !
The other two guys basically just held their hands up in the air....caught!

I cannot divulge what happened to the trio shortly afterwards though...  
Let's put it this way - it doesn't pay to try and rob a casino.