help and advice

[mark the spark]

just purchased another bandit this time a 4reel superline pays right to left and left to right
nothing fancy only plays 1 coin not quite sure of the model but think its the 1971 892-3 this machine came with the incorrect hopper
now hoppers are as rare as rocking horse sh t over here so thought about altering the one that came with it
now the beau plug in the machine is a 24 pin and the hopper is a 30 pin i have a spare plug to replace the 30 pin but this hopper has an anti cheat relay on it
so i can work out the payout wires and the hopper motor wires but i would like to do away with the cheat relay on the hopper,
there is a cheat relay on the machine itself which we can do away with later so can anyone see any problems i should be aware of
the correct pays are all on the hopper 2 ,5,10 ,14, 18 50 100 200 just the 14 needs a connection or any advice on the anti cheat relay

[OldReno]

So what kind of anti cheat is it?  Send a pic????  Give a descrip???
Sounds doable....

[mark the spark]

wont let me post pics as there to big so will try to make them smaller they are 2.4Mb all are under 3Mb but it comes up with a time out error taking to long to upload seem to have lost me other post as well
was saying that its quite confusing looking at the reel cards and hopper and wondering what wire does what so been through some schematics and came up with these so far now it`s not definitive
so if we can add to it or add any corrections  it would i feel help people out once i have a list of all wires needed i can adapt my hopper i know theres also insert coin light what about winner paid

Reno if i can work out how to post the photos i will never had trouble before but will give it another go

[OldReno]

Mark, that's ok.  Try to describe the anti-cheat relay.  Where is it, what color wires going to the coil, how many switches on it, etc.?
You should be able to find the winner paid light by looking at the wire on the light on the door, and that same wire color should go to your hopper, probably 1st to the payout relay switches where it changes color, and then on to the winner paid light pawl which is at the back of your pay board. Should be a normally closed switch on the payout relay.
Sounds like a PROJECT.  (note the CAPS)
You might be able to find those missing pay wires by looking at the 1st reel board, with those symbols on center line and looking at the wire color going out of the board.  (you'll see those other pay wires in the same line of buttons).  However, I notice this pays L to R and R to L, so that will complicate things a bit.
Is this a mix bar pay machine, or straight bars?
Don't go nuts and start soldering until you take time to carefully think this all out. Few things are more frustrating than getting lost in the middle of a project, however it looks like you're keeping good notes, so that's a plus.
Is it a mechanical stepped hopper or solenoid step? If it's as you say a single coin machine, then probably mechanical step, which eliminates some headaches.  If your hopper is solenoid step, then it's likely to get thorny, especially you are adapting a solenoid step hopper into a mechanical step machine.
Anyway, keep posting.

[mark the spark]

hi reno,
the hopper has a cheat relay on the situated above the payout relay has 4 n/o contacts the coil has a grey/green wire on it it
the 4 pairs are
                     grey/             grey black
                     yellow/          brown/grey
                     black-orange/ brown -blue
                     grey-green / grey-green
the payouts are straight bars
the hopper circuit board has no 14 payout wire but that's no problem what i was thinking of doing was making a loom from a beau plug and then manually go through the payouts
with a 50v relay one side to yellow(ground) so when you have a cherry there should be 50v on pin1 1-3 (red with yellow tracer) dabbed down it should pull the relay in slow and laborious i know but certain wires can be omitted
like the black the green and the yellow
i haven`t finished looking through schematics yet but will do soon
also this hopper has a switch which I'm sure is for the weight of coins in the hopper you know the one !!
just a last hope perhaps you or foxslots would know but the circuit board has the serial number MC 45-301 could this be used to determine which hopper it is and from which machine
as i said the beau plug on the hopper is 30 pin the plug in the machine is 24
trouble is due to my addiction to ballys im also restoring 2 others plus 1 waiting in the wings !!!

[OldReno]

Sometimes they would run the extra payboard wires in the loom, and then just tape them up out of the way.  You may already have one there. I'm thinking it's a 41 (green/red), but you show it as a hi-pay on your pinout...?
I have no idea what that anti-cheat relay does...  Anyone???
Sounds like you got lots of extra plug pins to use.
Stuff to do, talk later.
See if those wires from the anti-cheat go somewhere in the hopper, or just into your beau plug.

[mark the spark]

can anyone help i cant upload pics getting time out but the file size is under the allowed size there about 2.4mb

[Jeff99]

Try this.  Get at dropbox account   www.dropbox.com - they are free for out size of down loads.
Upload your pictures and post the URLs for people to download.
Jedff

[mark the spark]

hi all,
been working away am only home weekends so slow going at the mo
found a mention of anti cheat relay in marshall fey book page 51 but still the matter of wrong hopper for this machine
have made notes now of hopper beau plug inside machine will now do same for hopper and see what we have that is inbetween the million jobs she wants me to do

[mark the spark]

anti cheat relay

[mark the spark]

ok weather is mild and the workshops been tidied up so back to this,have removed the anti cheat relay from the hopper and soldered in a 24 pin plug
some observations: think this was made for europe as the coin mech is not british coin not sure what coinage is  but not worried at the mo
the machine has an anti tilt switch and a door open switch so was thinking of doing away with these as the machine is for home use
when the machine is powered up the coin in switch flicked the arm release not releasing also when winning line appears the hopper does nothing
also the tilt light is on which is not helping
so we have plenty to work on and looking for input on
doing away with the tilt and door switch
have attached some pics
 

[mark the spark]

tilt light on

[Op-Bell]

I see it's one of the Dublin machines. By a strange coincidence I have the exact hopper for that machine, in original condition. It has a 24 pin Beau and no extra relays, though I see the hopper frame has a hole sized for a 30 pin with the spare bit covered by a screw-on plate.

No I will not sell you my hopper    but I will trace out the wiring for you if you need it.

[mark the spark]

op bell a pin out would be fantastic just to see where im going also i like to keep records so thank you very much

[mark the spark]

weathers warmer so back to this project.
soldered in new 24 pin plug bypassed the tilt switch in the upper cabinet all ready for the plug in.
plugged hopper in and
1/ coin in light on.flick switch coin accepted light comes on no handle release
2/manually operate handle, reels spin light changes back to insert coin
3/ repeat but get a cherry win no payout line up other wins no payout
4/ go through all switches discover one switch under the handle release coil looks made n/c but is not so rectify
5/yess wins now payout but still no handle release circuit
6/check all wins left to right up to 20 payout, discover 20 payout is wired to 18 on hopper board must move to 20
7/ back to handle release circuit look at hopper plug in cab last 2 wires connected to terminals 22 and 23 look at hopper connected to 23 and 24 move 24 to 22  handle release circuit now working
8/ manage to find coin mech to accept the coin im using modern 10p
9/ discovered flaw in the plan !!!!!

can you guess ?

[OldReno]

No, I can't guess.  Brain not working this morning...
???

[mark the spark]

the hopper and coin out shute on the door dont line up
will go back to it tomorrow to see how far out it is not much i suspect but it looks a little low

[OldReno]

Good job.  I'd hire you.

[mark the spark]

ok so made a modification to the coin exit and will tart it up when all is finished just want to get it going for now
now for the next problem
all payouts are fine up to 20 coins but won`t pay 50 100 or 200
absolutely nothing for 50 or 100 but when 200 payout hit it pays 20
where shall we start the hopper pin outs or the hopper board itself?

[mark the spark]

heres a pic of the payouts

[OldReno]

Mark, check your outboard wipers on your payboard.  Make sure they have tension and are contacting the outer pay tabs.  Makes sure the jumper wire is attached that connects both sets of outer wipers together.  They control your high pays.

[mark the spark]

had a look at things home this week on holiday so want to get this going
all pays up to 20 work managed at onetime to get 50 pays working but not for all symbols ie the bars
on a 200 payout the hopper ran away
as this  is not the original hopper most pin outs match so would like to know what the payout board connections should be
ie 2 5 and 10 and 20 pays fine so what and where should the 50 100 and 200 pays and link wires go
will attach photos remember this is not the correct hopper so we can hopefully adapt to suit
and any suggestions for repairng the broken track i did link this out today whilst playing but now looking should i have linked the burnt track to the feed and not the 100 part to the feed

[mark the spark]

and a view of the rear of it

[OldReno]

Looks like that broken feed track is your problem on the high pays.  I would solder a wire connecting them, make sure that the wiper fingers miss the wire as they step up.  You should be able to solder on to the leftish side of the break, and that would probably make it so that the fingers don't hit your jumper.  I wouldn't worry about the trace part missing, as the outboard wipers don't go that far.  All you should have to do is just connect them up with a soldered jumper.
You could of course, use a thin uninsulated wire, and run it along the original track, and then cover it with some clear nail polish afterwards to hold it in place.

[mark the spark]

thanks oldreno will give that a go
any opinions on where the high pays go
do they go at the bottom and then link out
need to link  out something on the 200 payout ?