Bally 809-N update. Mech works now, BUT.....

[profmike]

I decided to start a new thread, as we had started to go wayyy off topic in my last.
...the good news is that the handle will now work the reels...after adjusting and re-adjusting the nuts etc with no luck, I noticed the pawl (on the inside of the handle that engages the mech) was pointing slightly upwards. Loosened the nut, leveled the pawl, re-tightened the nut  and lo and behold, the handle will now cycle the mech!!! YAY!!!

BUT (of course there had to be a but)...so please hold off on the "congratulations, you fixed it" replies...reel #3 is still noisy. I'm not too worried about that; it's contacting something inside the mechanism, and if i wiggle the reel, it behaves for a while.
...I wish i could say that was the only problem. And I KNEW this was going to happen; I mentioned this possibility in the first thread about my machine:
Now i have an electickal problem. (yes, you read that right...it's not an electrical problem. That would be too simple. Mine is "electickal" or "elec-tickle"...take your pick).
Here goes:
On power-up, the machine seems ok. But it won't take coins. The lockout coil isn't energized. With the door open, I can work the coin switch with my finger...that will make the "coin accepted" light come on. But the handle release coil doesn't kick in, so I can't pull the handle until I tap the actuator above the handle release coil. Then the coil holds it, and still using the coin switch, I can step up to the fifth coin. But this is no fun to play...read on, it gets stranger...
After removing the mech and giving the contacts on the coin relay, dashpot switch, basically all the contacts, a good cleaning with a proper burnishing tool....still the same result.
I slid the mech a out a few inches, re-inserted it with a wiggle, and the lockout coil kicked in! Closed the door, inserted 5 coins and it played fine. ONCE. Then I had to open the machine, slide out the mech and wiggle it in and out until the lockout coil became energized. Again, good for one play only. 
...so it seems to be a problem with the way the beau plugs are engaging the mech(?????) I was ready to blame the coils until my "slide out mech a few inches and wiggle it back into place until the lockout coil energizes" trick worked...
ALSO...besides the fact that my "fix" only makes it good for one play, I've lined up some winners to see what happens....now it only pays on cherries. (correct payout depending on the # of coins played), but set it to plums and oranges....NO PAYOUT, although the bell sounds briefly when I slide out the mech and reinsert, wiggling until the lockout coil engages.
So, before I really mess something up, I'm looking for suggestions. Beau plug problem? There IS quite a bit of play on the female plugs that are mounted inside the cabinet. I would blame the coils, but what are the odds of two coils (handle release and lockout) going at once??? Plus which, the coils ARE operational...that is, after I wiggle and re-install the mech.
Help! Please! SOS!!!!!
-Mike

[OldReno]

It's possible that when you insert the reel mech, your dashpot is opening.  Pull forward on the pump arm and listen to see if your lockout coil energizes or not.  (or, with door closed push 'back' on your handle firmly...) If it works, then just bend your dashpot a bit more closed.
As far as pays, pull down slightly on your reels, or wiggle them to see if that starts the pays.  Also you can pull forward on the hopper carriage assembly to see if that starts the pays.
If it were me, I'd only mess around with the beau plugs as a last resort....  Just be gentle putting mechs back in.

[profmike]

OK...thanks much, OldReno-
I'll try what you suggested and keep you updated with the results. (hopefully I didn't screw up the beau plugs when I was working on the mech...I was a little rough with it at times...)
Have a safe Labor Day
Mike

[profmike]

It's possible that when you insert the reel mech, your dashpot is opening.  Pull forward on the pump arm and listen to see if your lockout coil energizes or not.  (or, with door closed push 'back' on your handle firmly...) If it works, then just bend your dashpot a bit more closed.
As far as pays, pull down slightly on your reels, or wiggle them to see if that starts the pays.  Also you can pull forward on the hopper carriage assembly to see if that starts the pays.
If it were me, I'd only mess around with the beau plugs as a last resort....  Just be gentle putting mechs back in.

Well, OldReno, you're quickly becoming my new favorite person. It's a dashpot issue. Pushing "back" on the handle doesn't work...there's no play; no movement possible. However, with the door open, the pulling forward on the pump DOES energize the lockout coil! Again though, it's good for one pull only and then I have to open the machine and pull the pump forward again. I bent the dashpot a little more closed with a pair of duckbill pliers....same thing. Question (and not to sound dumb, but i don't want to muck things up further)...how much more forward can I bend the dashpot without totally screwing it up? Or perhaps it's a lube issue??? In any case, that's the problem- you nailed it. Now it's just a matter of getting it properly adjusted. I have about 3/8- 1/2" of forward pull on the pump.

As far as the pays, I'll do as you suggested but one problem at a time. That's going to be another head-scratching-drink many beers-problem. While playing with the dashpot, I hit melon-plum-melon, which is now a paying combination!!!! (pays the same as one cherry). I'm not sure there's enough beer in the world to get this solved....
Standing by for your response....
Mike

[OldReno]

You can probably bend the two dashpot leaves permanently closed.  I don't think it will effect the machine except you might be able to insert a coin during reel spin.  You can always adjust them correctly when you get the machine back to 100%.  I guess there is still a slight issue with your pump arm adjustment, does the half-gear fit nicely into your handle fork, or does the fork move the half gear when the mech slides in?
I wouldn't worry about it right now unless you're a purist.  Especially since you just now got it working again, and need a break.
What kind of pays do you have?  Is it a single line machine, 3 line, or 5 line criss-cross?
What kind of pay combinations?  Pay left to right and right to left?
Pays fruit fruit bar, and bar fruit fruit?
etc.?
Post a pic of paytable if you can.
Sounds like a reel wiper slightly out of adjustment....
Pull the reel mech, and look and see how your wiper fingers align on the wiper boards.  Is it clean, or are the fingers bridging two sets of buttons?

[profmike]

That sounds like a good work-around. I'll give it a shot...and as it's just a home use machine, if it accepts a coin during play that wouldn't be an issue...or something I can work on later. i won't be a purist for now. Yes, the gear/handle are nicely aligned...that was the "magical" adjustment that finally got the reels to kick in (the adjustment of the handle's half gear, which was badly aligned).
It's a five coin, single line machine. The reel strips and belly glass aren't original...I got it about 15 years ago from a large CA dealer, and they called it a "Money Honey 809." It's still a fun machine though.
Probably a reel wiper out of adjustment...kind of annoying, as before the problem started, I had gone over the wiper contacts with a scotchbrite pad and gun oil.
I'll post pics tomorrow...these are my hell days...night classes Tu/Th, and then 8Am classes M/W, so i have to get up at 5am. I'm a zombie at the moment. More soon....

[Mr. Dinoman]

Something else you might want to look for...I had a very very similar problem and it drove me crazy...Then I found it...Believe it or not, one of the bulbs that lights up the coin tray was semi shorting to the case...Once I fixed that, the darn thing worked perfectly...Hope this helps...
Jimmy

[profmike]

Something else you might want to look for...I had a very very similar problem and it drove me crazy...Then I found it...Believe it or not, one of the bulbs that lights up the coin tray was semi shorting to the case...Once I fixed that, the darn thing worked perfectly...Hope this helps...
Jimmy

Thanks for the input, Jimmy...at this point, I'm ready to try anything with the payout problem, and will check for shorts. This whole thing is my fault for taking the total DIY road before I posted here! Duh....
Good news is that the coin-in weirdness is solved for the moment...see my next post!
Mike

[profmike]

Pictured below is a shot of the paytable. Cherries, oranges/ orange-bar, plums, plum-bar, bells, bell-bar, bars, melons, stars, money honey. Simple (ha) 5-coin multiplier, single line, left to right pays only.
I'd take a pic of the belly glass, but it did not come from the Dunes...(and yes, I knew that when I bought the machine)...
First off...THE COIN-IN PROBLEM IS SOLVED!!!!! Two things to get this working...a) more bending of the dashpot switch, and b) I totally forgot about this but duhhhhh again....while trying to get the reels spinning, I had loosened the nut on the driveshaft (the one that contacts the highly compressed sprint)...I completely forgot to re-tighten it! A few turns of the wrench and the coin-in problem is fixed!!!! YAY! Now I can have a celebration beer instead of a "frustration" one.

Payout issue....reel 3 (the now-noisy one)...the wipers are indeed bridging the contacts. This must have happened when I took out the reels to mees with the gear adjustment (?)....but I lined up melon-plum-melon, and no payout this time. Went through a few winning combinations, and so far, they seem to pay correctly. But I will have to deal with the reel 3 squeakiness and the wiper issue...need more beers before I tackle that one...for now, I'm pretty happy with the progress...it's taking coins, stepping properly and spinning.....99.9% there....

[OldReno]

Make sure your reel shaft is setting firmly in place, all the way seated, and that the little tabs are both up holding it in place.  If the shaft is not all the way seated, that may cause the index to be off.
Push back your #3 wiper and gently spin the reel.  Note where it is rubbing, and put a little mark there with a sharpie.  When you find all the rub spots you can GENTLY (GENTLY) pull out or push in on the reel itself to help align it.  Make your pull/push on the metal tin part, preferrably at the outer diameter.  Hope that makes sense. Try to push/pull at opposite sides of the reel, in other words at 180 degrees out, to keep the other side from getting worse. I usually bend at the end of the arms rather than on the outer edge.  You can reach in and grab them since it's the 3rd reel.
Good job, good work.  And, you might want to do a full short test when you have the time and energy.
Glad to be of any assistance, always.

[profmike]

Make sure your reel shaft is setting firmly in place, all the way seated, and that the little tabs are both up holding it in place.  If the shaft is not all the way seated, that may cause the index to be off.
Push back your #3 wiper and gently spin the reel.  Note where it is rubbing, and put a little mark there with a sharpie.  When you find all the rub spots you can GENTLY (GENTLY) pull out or push in on the reel itself to help align it.  Make your pull/push on the metal tin part, preferrably at the outer diameter.  Hope that makes sense. Try to push/pull at opposite sides of the reel, in other words at 180 degrees out, to keep the other side from getting worse. I usually bend at the end of the arms rather than on the outer edge.  You can reach in and grab them since it's the 3rd reel.
Good job, good work.  And, you might want to do a full short test when you have the time and energy.
Glad to be of any assistance, always.

Thanks a million as usual! I'm sure you're familiar with this situation (aren't we all...as tinkerers?)...after dealing with a machine to the point of absolute frustration, it's so easy to overlook the simplest thing! Sure enough, although the reel assembly was inserted correctly, the "springy clip" (how's that for a technical term) that holds the reels in place on the right side had done a 360, so it was allowing the reel shaft to shift during a spin. DUH!
Reel scraping issue is now resolved.
And except for plum/ plum-bar pays, the payouts are proper; the weird melon-plum-melon pay is gone. Now it's just a plum issue, and the wipers on reel 3 are in need of adjustment. Now I'm 99.999999% there!
Thanks again to you and to everyone else who posted...couldn't have done this without everyone's help! :-)
Mike

[OldReno]

Yes, you could have done it all by yourself, but it might have taken longer, and you wouldn't have been able to build community, like you did.
And we wouldn't have had fun helping. Thanks.

[profmike]

I agree completely! And even though this was less than fun at many times, you're right; it's great to have a site like this where people help each other out. (and I was just making things worse trying to do it by myself)...
Now it's just a plum problem...
AND- OldReno, you probably didn't notice this, but your reply to my last post was your 400th on this site...it's a lucky sign! Go stick a $20 bill into a double bonus poker machine...the quad 2,3 or 4s are waiting for you!
Mike

[OldReno]

Cool, sounds like a plan.  I didn't hit the $105 million lottery yesterday, shockingly... (I play maybe twice a year...), so you think maybe a double bonus poker, huh? I don't gamble, but $20 for some play and a free drink is sounding kinda nice right now. I really should get out and visit some folks, too.  Thanks for the prompting.

[profmike]

Don't feel too bad...I missed out on the 300+ million powerball as usual. And yes, I think post #400 is a lucky omen. There aren't any full-pay video pokers in Reno, but that doesn't really matter if you're only going to play 20; the four of a kind pays are the same. Worth a shot....and a free beer or two sweetens the deal! :-)
Mike