S+ coin in Optic Bypass

[stayouttadabunker]

Replys #34,#35, and #36...you need to really read these and
understand how you can set your slant to do the same in order for the jumper bypasses to work!
Don't skip any instructions you may see in this thread....
They all apply to making this bypass work successfully...
if not, then I'd start planning on leaving the slant top coin mechanisms intact until
we get a better look at the wiring schematics for your slant machine.

[Slot Docs]

Hey guys,
      The slant tops games use the S style of connector (same as hoppers) it would be possible to jumper the plug there
or use the wires just below the plug and use scotch lock idc connectors (suitcase style) on it to do the bypass, the wire
colors should be the same as in the uprights. I don't have access to that info right at this time but will check it out later
Slot Docs

[learninginsa]

Thank you, Slot Docs.

 The wire colors, or origins would be very helpful.

  With that info, I should be able to just do the bypass, as you suggested.

  Unfortunately, I do not have an upright to look at the origins of the wiring to that molex connector.
 

[Jim]

should be easy to do;  go to the download and get the repair manual, go to page 21 , ABC optic.  pull the coin unit out of the machine, remove the coin comp., unplug the 10 pin connector from the optic board, remove the two screws that hold the assembly together,separate the two boards, find the three output transistors on the schematic, outputs A B C  (collector of the transistor)  they go to the out put pins of that board. temp. plug the connector back in and see what wires are involved. then some where in the middle of the run over to the plug that mates with the cabinet plug, cut those three wires ( the reason we want to do it in the middle so it can reconnect at some point down the road) then find the ground pin ( 7)  see what color wire it is ( same process) then connect the ground wire to the other three and that should work! the three wires that will be connected to the ground will be on the side that comes from the cabinet plug,NOT THE ABC OPTICS PLUG.  then ( because you observed everything as you were disassembling it ) re assemble and place back in the machine, and you should be good to go.  You shouldn't have to make any adjustments, slant top and uprights use the same board and software just different placement  of the hardware  and small changes to other units to accommodate a sit down version.

Hope this helps    

Jim

[Slot Docs]

Ok Learninginsa,
    Wire colors on upright are as follows pin 2 orange/with black trace, pin 4 orange/with red trace, pin6 orange with yellow
pin 10 green, pin 10 is the ground. at the plug in the upright there are 2 green wires in pin 10, but any solid green should
have the same function.....
Hope this helps you out
Slot Docs

[learninginsa]

Thanks you, stayouttadabunker,Jim, and Slot Docs.

 You all have been a very big help, and I got it to work.

 Sorry, it took me so long to get back on here to thank you.

 I was away from the computer, and under the weather all week.

Thank you again, for all your help with this matter.

[Slot Docs]

NO Problem,

Glad to hear you got it going
Always glad to be of assistance

Slot Docs

[ersk3]

Hi, I came over this thread. I have a question I hope anyone can answer 

I have an old IGT S+ slot. I want to keep the coin mech and optics, and add an extra coin mech.

Why? Well, I want to use all kind of coins on the machine. I know it's possible, because i've seen it done before 

How can I add an extra coin mech to the slot? just givin out N.O / N.C pulses after what the coin is worth ?

Erik

[Buzz]

Hi, I came over this thread. I have a question I hope anyone can answer 

I have an old IGT S+ slot. I want to keep the coin mech and optics, and add an extra coin mech.

Why? Well, I want to use all kind of coins on the machine. I know it's possible, because i've seen it done before 

How can I add an extra coin mech to the slot? just givin out N.O / N.C pulses after what the coin is worth ?

Erik

I can tell you flat out, you have never seen it done using a CC 16 D 24 volt Coin Comparitor !  S+ machine the comparitor does not send out a pulse when the a coin is passed through it. It reads the coin and compares it to the sample coin you have installed. If it's a good coin it then passes through the coin optics and is counted as one credit, the coin optics does not care what size the coin passing through is, it will only give one credit per coin. ( I didn't go into the optic shim issue )

It may be possible to use a IDK X-10 Xeptor I don't know quite how they work, reason being I have never had one that wasn't a piece of JUNK.  ( I throw them away )

If you accomplish what your idea is ( any and all coins ) what are you going to do about the hopper and pay out ?? 

[jay]

The X10 acceptor is designed to do this.

The problem with using this with a S+ is that the coin hopper will Jam with the wrong sized coins on any kind of cash out.
You can set hand pay to 1 coin, crank the hopper limit to 9999 and disable the cash out button by yanking the switch wire but you can still run into problems,

For instance on some games if you accidently put in 4 coins rather than 3 (on a 3 coin game)
Some games will run the hopper to kick back a coin.

So if you setup your machine for nickles and dropped in a quarter into the x10 it could try and spit out 2 coins.
The hopper having a bunch of the wrong kind of coins can then jam.

You would need to find a game that uses montana credits. Montanna credits allow the game to keep extra coins as credits vs popping them back out.

[ersk3]

Here's my ide The extra coin mech drops coins into a coin-box in the slot-stand.
The extra coin mech takes all types of coins and the slot gives them value / credits depending of what kind of coin it is.
This will work paralell with the original coin mech (where one coin is valued one). The slot pays out standard coins from the hopper.
I've seen this be done on the old ferry between Norway and Denmark.
I've made a sketch in paint to explain what I mean, sorry for my bad picture.

Sorry for my bad english, I'm an Norwegian.

Erik

[Foster]

The Coin Comparator does not signal a S+ anything about the coin.
It just compares it to the sample coin and either lets it go to optics or rejects it.

The S+ optics signal the mpu as it passes through each optic (they are only about 1/4 inch apart and staggered)
Once the coin clears the optics then credit for the coin is given to the current game to be played or if allowed to the credit meter (depends on which game (SP) chip used.
Most casinos in the US the S+ could only accept coins up to the max bet per game, extra coins had to be returned to player (either by the coin comparator being inhibited or at end of game play if the coin got by the comparator - fast feeding)

Only platform I am familiar with that even signals a coin has been accepted by the coin comparator is the S2000 (if the comparator does not signal that a coin is good and lets the coin to the optics the s2000 goes into a coin in error tilt)

[stayouttadabunker]

Sounds like they have a different type of coin mech for the other coins below -
similar to the ones they use in soda and vending machines.

Those coin mechs tally up the values of the coins inserted much like in the way of a bill acceptor unit.
When the total amounts come up to the value of 1 credit, the machine spits out the soda or candy and change is returned.

I imagine this type of unit can be hooked up ( in parallel ) to the lines of the S+ coin-in optic or bill acceptor wires?
I've never tried it though... 

Here's something I've never thought of though...>>>
Say you want two $1.25 soda pops right?
You throw in a $5 dollar bill into the bill acceptor and push the soda button.
One soda pop should come out.
Now, does the machine spit out $3.75 in change or can you push the soda pop button to get another soda pop
and the machine then gives you $2.50 in change? 

[Foster]

You can not wire 2 or more sets of optics in parallel
each set of optics would be holding the optic input lines low
even if one set gets a coin the other optics are holding the inputs low.
Machine never detects the coin passing through one set of optics

As far I know soda machines basically sort the coins then add them to accepted value for the current purchase.
The each denomination of coin takes a different path to either coin tubes for giving change when needed or coin drop if a valid coin.
while taking the different paths they trip a switch or other coin counting device.

Sorry the S+ itself is not capable of handling more than one denomination of a coin, unless you can crack the BV protocol and have the coin system act like a Bill validator.
IGT designed the S+ and S2000 to use only one type of coin or token at a time and not mix them.

A S+ quarter hopper can handle quarters, 0.984 inch, and 0.955 inch tokens no problem.
Now getting the coin comparator to take all three (standard CC-16) will be a chore once you try doing quarters.
no problem doing both token sizes unless you have the wrong counter weight installed.


I do not mix token sizes I came across a couple of the 0.955 inch tokens and tested them with a 0.984 inch token in the comparator.

I do not think you could wire the optic inputs in series either the optic boards have logic chips on them.
If it was an S2000 it might be possible but I don't think I would even try it.

[stayouttadabunker]

...I do not think you could wire the optic inputs in series either the optic boards have logic chips on them.
If it was an S2000 it might be possible but I don't think I would even try it.

That might be one main reason why I haven't tried it other than the fact I've never thought of it...

[ersk3]

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=7238.30
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=2044.45

Read them and tell me that it's not possible

[stayouttadabunker]

Gee...we built those freeplay things like 2 years ago...
I think mine is collecting dust on a shelf somewhere... 
It's not really like what you were asking to do...
I thought you wanted to have a separate coin mech accept different coins into another box?

[ersk3]

But if you instead of connect this "free play board" to a "free play button", connects it to a coin mech giving out NC pulses. That would work right??

[stayouttadabunker]

Never tried it like that...
Let us know if it works?

[ersk3]

I don't have a "free play board"  

If your collecting dust, could I buy it from you?  

Someone having a free play board to sell me ?

[Foster]

you could theoretically use one of those free play boards to replace optics and if you can understand the code modify it so additional switches trigger additional code in the Microcontroller for the proper number of credtis
Example machine is a quarter denomination so the switch below the coin comparator in the door, triggers the optics inputs only one time (just like one coin passed throught them, remember the machine cant tell what the coin is.
The bottom comparator is configured for half dollar, so the switch below it triggers the optics just like 2 coins would going through optics one at a time.
If you did it with microcontroller that it would work, but you better have anti stringing and such in place for the coin comparators
that is one thing the optics in an S+ or S2000 can detect is some one trying to string a coin back through them.
A physical switch can't detect stringing

 

[TZtech]

Hello ERSK3 and welcome to the forum

In the initial thread for my freeplay board it was suggested that it could be run in series with an existing coin mech but I never tried it. The processor board holds all the inputs high and the coin mech board / freeplay board pull them low with a transistor so it may be possible to run both in series.
To be honest the whole project kind of fizzled out as I never got round to developing it for anything else than the S+/PE+ platform and not everyone has the skill/parts and equipment to DIY and being a continent away made supplying built boards difficult. I have however found a nice little product on EBAY that will make the whole freeplay project a lot easier and am expecting delivery soon.

The code is very straigtforward and was written in a free demo version for a commercially available basic compiler for Microchip PIC devices. The only problem is that its limited to 50 lines of code but I think it should be possible to add desired functionality within these limits.

Ian