Coin mechanism issues with Bally 809

[dave91169]

I thought I was finished with the various repairs my Bally 809 machine, when I found that, upon inserting the 6th quarter, it goes on into the hopper and is not rejected. After removing power, found out that it also was not rejected.   Found out that there is no voltage on the coin lockout assembly; also found out that someone had bent the armature of that assembly so that the tab did not stick into the coin mechanism.  Have not fixed the voltage issue yet, but that shouldn't be a tough task.

After straightening the armature and getting the tab to stick into the coin mech, found that the coin would jam, rather than return.  After further investigation, I find that this unit has been retrofitted with a Imonex plastic coin mechanism, and that the armature tab apparently sticks into the coin mech too far to the "right" (looking at the inside of the door). 

I could probably  modify the armature to make it work with this coin mech, but I hate to do so.  I don't think this is the coin mechanism I need.  Does anyone have the part number of the proper coin mechanism that would work with this unit?  I have researched  www.coinmech.com and they appear to have a model number 10530050 that "looks" correct.  An alternative would be to fabricate another coin lockout armature so as not to have to cut this one up, but that would take some serious metalwork.  Any help would be appreciated.
Dave E
 

[OldReno]

How far does the tab miss the hole?

[dave91169]

The tab does not miss the hole.  The "hole" is actually a rectangular opening that is considerably larger than required by the tab.  The tab sticks into this opening about 3/16" too far toward the chute that directs the coin into the coin tray (to the "left", in the attached picture).  If it were shortened, there would be enough room for the coin to hit the tab and deflect into the chute that goes to the coin tray.  I can "make it work" by removing the coin mech and armature from the machine and putting the two units together with the tab to the side of the opening away from the coin reject chute.
Attached is a photo of the back side of the coin acceptor.  If the tab sticks into this opening toward the left side of the opening (which is what is happening), the coin hangs up in the acceptor.  If the tab sticks into this opening toward the right side of the opening (could be accomplished by shortening up the armature, which I really don't want to do), the coin goes where it's supposed to.
Still wondering if this is a "general purpose" coin acceptor, not really intended for this particular machine.
Dave E

[OldReno]

Great description.
Can you bend the tab just a smidgen to the right? You could heat it with a torch first, but they're not really too susceptible to cracking unlike case hardened parts.
I always preferred the coin mech acceptors, but yours should work....
For your lockout coil problem, be sure your dashpot switch is closing fully.

[dave91169]

Already tried that. Bent it as far as I dared, but the coin still jammed. A coin mech unit might be the answer if I knew which one belongs in this thing.
Dave E

[OldReno]

The dimensions on your acceptor should be about the same as any of the others.
A new type acceptor may help, but I dunno, I doubt it.
It shouldn't matter how far your tab sticks through, so I'm at a loss.
As long as it blocks the coin, it should naturally fall back into the tray....
A good physics problem.

[Buzz]

OldReno  Seeing as how I've never messed with the old Ballys what does he need, a old coin mech like they used in the fortune 1?? If so I think I have a big ol bucket full of them. Uses no electricity.

[dave91169]

Thank you both for your replies.  The problem has been solved in an interesting way.

My son mentioned that he had "several" coin mechanisms from arcade video games, and that he would bring them to me this morning.  Most of them take tokens, but three of them are Coin Mech 130 units, and are marked "25 cents".  Initial check with a quarter looked good for all three.  Put one in the machine; coin always went back to the coin tray regardless of lockout armature position.  Put in another one; coins go where they're supposed to!!

This is a MUCH better-looking unit (although kind of old, and dirty-need to clean it up a bit) than the plastic one that was in the machine.  All I need to do now is find the electrical problem that's keeping the armature from pulling in - the coil is OK, but something upstream is amiss (for all I know, someone may have clipped a wire trying to get the plastic coin acceptor to work).  I'm also gonna work with the other two 25-cent units to see if at least one other one will work, so I'll have a spare in addition to the plastic one.
Again, thanks for your help.  I'll let you guys know when I solve the electrical problem.

Dave E

[Amachanic]

OldReno  Seeing as how I've never messed with the old Ballys what does he need, a old coin mech like they used in the fortune 1?? If so I think I have a big ol bucket full of them. Uses no electricity.

Buzz.. I would be interest in any of the older mechanical coin acceptors you don't want since I work on mostly the older Bally EM's and E-Series machines. Let me know if your you want to sell any of them.

Thanks Gary

[Buzz]

OldReno  Seeing as how I've never messed with the old Ballys what does he need, a old coin mech like they used in the fortune 1?? If so I think I have a big ol bucket full of them. Uses no electricity.

Buzz.. I would be interest in any of the older mechanical coin acceptors you don't want since I work on mostly the older Bally EM's and E-Series machines. Let me know if your you want to sell any of them.

Thanks Gary

Give me a few days to dig around in a storage trailer and see what I have. Put it this way, you can't walk on the floor of the trailer you have to walk on top of machines.

[dave91169]

Problem solved - the "butcher" was at work!
Unsoldered the feed wire from the coin lockout relay and read continuity - open.  Put a tone tracker (like the phone company uses to trace phone pairs - for those who haven't met one before) on the wire and traced it to the feature unit beau plug - second row down, right-hand pin.  Checked continuity to that point - OK.
Looked at the male beau connector on the feature unit - no wire on that terminal!  Looked around, found a white/brown wire clipped off about 3" back - no other strays noted.  Put clip leads on the wire and on the terminal - read 50 volts on the wire; 50 volts went away when the 5th coin was inserted - good thing!  Clipped the two clip leads together, and - - success!!  Works like it's supposed to.  Made the wiring permanent, put everything back together, and I think I'm through for now (except for a bit of final testing to make sure payouts are accurate, etc.).
This machine is a "natural" for me, since it's made with relays, solenoids, 6-volt lamps, an AC electrical system, etc.  I grew up around this stuff in the '50's, so it's fun to have something where you can actually see what's going on with the machinery.
Thanks again for the help that has been extended to me.  I'm sure I'll be back with more posts. I'm just hoping that slot machines aren't as addictive as arcade video games and Onan generators - they probably are, though!
Dave E

[Amachanic]

OldReno  Seeing as how I've never messed with the old Ballys what does he need, a old coin mech like they used in the fortune 1?? If so I think I have a big ol bucket full of them. Uses no electricity.

Buzz.. I would be interest in any of the older mechanical coin acceptors you don't want since I work on mostly the older Bally EM's and E-Series machines. Let me know if your you want to sell any of them.

Thanks Gary

Give me a few days to dig around in a storage trailer and see what I have. Put it this way, you can't walk on the floor of the trailer you have to walk on top of machines.

Buzz,  No big hurry, just be nice to have a few spares. Do you know if any are nickel?

Gary

[Buzz]

I really don't know. I came home one day and about 15 Fortune 1 machines were setting in my drive way. A fellow called later and told me to see how many I could get fixed and he would split the good ones with me. Next day about 15 stands showed up with a box of parts, these coin mech were part of the litter. So for I fixed one of the machines. ( It's only been a couple of years )