Bally 1090-18 tilt error

[gposing]

I just picked up one of these slots and it is the first time I have worked on one.  Here is what it does and does not do.   When it is plugged in the Tilt light comes on, the deposit coin is on, the 1st coin play is on, you can put a quarter in and the coins do go to the hopper.  1st one in there is a loud click on the inside any coin after that nothing happens they just fall into the hopper.  Handle is always locked. I found one blown fuse and replaced it.  Not sure where to start on this one. 

Thanks
Gary

[Amachanic]

Is there any numbers showing in the doors win meter? We're looking for an error codes. First of all check the condition of the power cord. They get torn up from where they come out of the machine. Then check all your circuit board plugs connections.

Gary

[gposing]

Weird thing just happened.  I open the door and released the handle, pulled it won 2 quarters, 1 came out and now it keeps blowing fuses.  Most of the time it is the 2nd one from the front.  Sounds like I have a short somewhere.  Also there is no numbers showing up in the win meter.  Work is done for tonight until I stock up on more fuses.

Gary

[Neonkiss]

Best way to troubleshoot a short on these machines is to remove the reels, hopper and un-plug the door harness connectors.
Put in a good fuse and see if it blows. If so, power down and un-pulg MPU and I/O and check again.
Once you have it to where it does not blow the fuse with power on start plugging stuff back in one, by one. I usually start with the door harness one connector at a time until the fuse blows again. When it does that it the component to look at.

It's common for the door wire harness to short out on the door near the hinge area.
Good luck and keep us posted.

[gposing]

It is not blowing a fuse at this time.  I found a broken wire on the hopper.  Slot was taking coins, but the handle was still locked.  I got the reals to pull manually, got a winning combination, hopper started to pay out,  then slot went into a tilt situation.  Now I am unable to clear the tilt with the button.  When the hopper was running there was a nice green light show going on in the back.  Don't think that is normal, but I can not find any wires that look burnt.  One more thing, the little red light behind the hopper was on and i had to press the button to reset it. 

At this point I have a tilt that I can not clear.

Gary

[tkrozleski]

The handle locked/not releasing problem may be the handle release solenoid and linkage is gummed up and needs to be lubed and freed up with WD-40.

What are your error codes in the display?

Is the fuse on the hopper burnt?

[Amachanic]

Gary.. If your machine is a Bally EM then the machine has timed out. There should be a flat piece of metal that runs under your hopper to the reset button. Push it in and it should clear the problem. The machine will time out if there are not enough coins in the hopper to complete the payout.. You might want to check back behind the hopper and timer for any loose coins. That could be where your short is too..

Gary

[Jim]

first thing!  you have a ELECTO-Mechanical  1090  Bally slot machine.  it will not give you error codes!  the red light that was on in the back of the machine is part of a timer mech., it is turned on the same time the hopper is turned on, if the hopper hasn't finished paying out the payout in the required time the timer will come on and remove all power from the machine, this was a safety feature put into the machine so the hopper would not pay out all the money if the coin counter circuit failed.

there should be three fuses mounted to the backwall, (some machines had four) the first one or two is the 120 vac line voltage, usually black and white wires, the next is the 50vac (orange wires) usually the coils,  and the next is 6.3vac- blue wires (general  illumination Lamps and lamps in general) .

the "green light show" is probably the payout relay switch mounted on the back of the hopper.( it had a big wire wound square resistor mounted to it) the green color is due to the relay contacts "arcing"

you should check the to see the condition of these contacts, if they continue to arc like that they will eventually burn up. check alignment and gap and make and break of these contacts, they should be cleaned as well.  some people say the carbon build up is good for the contacts, but if they are arcing like yours I would clean them. two schools of thought to cleaning,  1= burnishing tool, 2= paper soaked in isopropyl alcohol and placed between closed contacts and moved back and forth.

the fuse that is blowing will lead you to the problem area. if its the 50 vac fuse, its usually something to do with a coil , if its the 6.3, its something to do with the lamps, if its the 120, the flour. lamps timer, or the hopper motor.

Hope this helps

Jim   

[gposing]

it is the 50vac with the orange wires on it.  Sorry for the dumb question, but what do you mean coil.  I see a lot of relays in the slot, but not sure what you mean by coil?

Gary

[gposing]

I figured out what the coils are on another post.  there showed how to test using long wires and attaching to a yellow and orange wire.  I have to get some clips and make new cables.  Mine are not long enough. 

Gary

[gposing]

I tested the coils by attaching one lead to a yellow wire and one to an orange. The top coil engaged when the power was turned on, but the lower one with the large blue (whatever that is) did not.  So I would assume I have a bad coil.  Does anyone know where I can find one? 

It is a Bally G-40 120000

[Amachanic]

I have seen them on EBay, or you could contact Barry Fox at Foxsslots. He can be found on the home page under Sponcers. You could also do a Google search using Bally coil and the number. You might be able to buy it through a sight that has pinball parts. Some of those coils were used in both there slots and pins.
Gary

[Jim]

I don't think that coil is bad, that coil is fed by 115 vac.  Its called the delay relay unit  ( safety timer)  it consists of the following components: ASW-2659-55=DELAY RELAY,G-40-12000=COIL,E-105-132=RESISTOR 47 OHMS, 1 WATT, DIODE, IN2070/750MA,  BLUE THING IS A CAPACITOR,  30MFD/150VOLT.



JIM

[gposing]

Well that is good and bad news all at the same time.    Good news is I won't be spending money on something I don't need, bad news is I am back to square one on why the fuse continues to blow when the hopper kicks in.  Can I jumper the 150V that comes into the slot and test that coil just to make sure it is good?

[Amachanic]

Does the hopper motor run at all or just blow the fuse? You can test the hopper motor with jumper wires and 115v. Remove the hopper from the machine a nd bench test it. I have found them bound up due to lack of lubracation.

Gary

[gposing]

Hopper runs and kicks out a few coins then fuse blows.

[Jim]

before I offer any suggestions,  its the 50 vac fuse that is blowing,  and it only happens when the hopper is running?  what amp rating is the fuse?  I think it should be a 8 amp fuse.

the wire that was loose, did you find out where it was attached? 


Jim 

[Amachanic]

Have you manually tried turning the hopper to see if its binding. Release the brake on the motor with one hand and turn the hopper star. Should rotate easy. Just a thought.. Could have a grounded wire some where in the hopper or with the cabinet beau plug that the hopper connects too?
Gary

[gposing]

Thanks. I will take a look at that tonight.

[gposing]

hopper works great when connecting the motor to 115v.  nice and smooth, kicks out quarters perfect.  Is their an easy trick to tracing out a possible ground problem?

[gposing]

Tried something different. I removed all of the quarters from the hopper to see what would happen.  when I turned it on, it continued to try and pay out.  the hopper just continued to run and did not stop until the red light safety in the back went on.  press the reset hopper tried to pay out.  So I tossed 1 quarter into the hopper.  the second it hit the switch the fuse blew.  Quarter never made it out of the hopper, still stuck under the switch.  I see there is a screw missing from the switch, could that be the problem?

[Amachanic]

It could be.. That screw is to adj the switch.. See if you can find it in the hopper? I could be causing your short if its stuck in a relay. Lift the coin lever roller and watch the relay to see how it's working.  Take the hopper and turn it upside down and shake it to see it the screw fall out. Threads in the lever look shinny like it did have a screw in it. There should be a nut too that locks the screw in place.

Gary

[gposing]

I can't find any screws in the hopper.  i tried it again and exact same thing, once the coin hits the switch fuse blows.  I can see how it pushes down to cause the relays to make contact, but they look like they function correctly. 

[OldReno]

Sounds like your coin out switches are shorting to case when a coin pushes down the roller.  Try putting a piece of tape under the bottom switch. Nothing should short to case.  Nothing. Ever.
The only thing to case should be your green ground wire coming in from the 120V plug.   All these circuits should be isolated from case.  Find my post on checking for shorts, that might help.  Will get back when I got time, very very busy right now.
Good diagnostics on your part BTW!!! Good pics too...!

[gposing]

Still unable to trace out a short in the hopper.  I did take a video of where I think the short is taking place, but still I can not figure out where the short is.

here is the video

http://youtu.be/OpUf63HW1hs

Gary