Bally 1090-18 tilt error

[Jim]

Gary,

would like to help solve your problem, Bally made too many machines, in my mind I'm still trying to figure out what type of machine you have. I'm thinking you have a Bally 1090 fruit machine, which was a EM (electro mechanical ) three coin multiplier.  most of the machines I worked on had the coin counting circuits separate from the hopper. The counting disc was located behind and to the right of the hopper. It has what appears to be a bunch of washers attached to a rod on the bottom of the unit. it also has two coils on it , one steps up the finger wipers and the other resets them to zero. usually the hopper switches you pictured  activate this counting mech. Try unplugging this mech and see if it still blows the fuse. Again I am assuming it is the 50 vac fuse that is blowing? 
Pictures of your machine ,the hopper, and overall placements of the component inside your machine would help immensely.   

Hope this helps

Jim

[gposing]

I will post pictures of the slot tonight.   thanks again.  Gary

[OldReno]

Ok, let's see if I understand.
1. The pinwheel turns during a payout?
2. Everything is ok until a coin goes under the coin roller?
3. When coin passes coin roller then it blows fuse?

[gposing]

As soon as the coin hits the roller to activate the switch counting the coin the fuse goes.  Most times the coin does not come out.  It is still stuck under the roller.

[gposing]

I have another thread that has pictures and video.  Search 1090-18

[OldReno]

Stick a coin under the roller so it holds the switches down, and then ohm out each one to see if they are shorting to case.
here's a link for checking switches.  http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=17603.0
I think you may have a switch leaf which is touching another switch when it is not supposed to.  Check your payout relay switch stack very carefully, sometimes a switch may be bend up or down too much, and touches something it shouldn't.
Keep at it....

[gposing]

Double checked the hopper and can not find a short to the case.  I did some more testing and found that if I connect my meter to the orange wire where the fuse continues to blow and touch the case with the other wire I show a reading?  Is that right?

[gposing]

I was asked to post a few more pictures of the slot to help determine the model of it

[Jim]

Gary     in your first picture, the unit in the back on the rightside of the machine, it has two plugs going to it, they are plugged in to the bracket to the left of it.  pay attention or mark one of the plugs so you get them plugged in the right way. remove the plugs, unscrew and remove from the machine,  right side fits into a flange, the other side is secured to the cabinet base with the screw.

examine the unit, look for coins in places where they shouldn't be. manually test the coils on the one side of the unit, the one on the top will step the wiper fingers and count up for each time pressed, the one on the bottom will reset the counter.

you can also test these coils with your jumpers.


Jim

[OldReno]

Gary, nice work so far, good photos, always glad to see photos.
Anyway, the fact that you have contact between the orange wire and case shows you have a short.
first thing I'd do is unplug the (2) door plugs and test it again.  If the short goes away it's in your door.  Someone may have intentionally put in a short to prevent cheaters from getting to the machine.  They usually put it on to one side of the coin lockout coil, behind the coin acceptor.  If so, you will see an extension of the orange wire from the coil that is screwed into the case.  If so, remove the screw, and cut off the extension.
Yes, I'd say you for sure have a short.
Fun, huh?

[gposing]

Just an update for tonight.  I think it is in the reels.  If I unplug the large connector that goes up to the reels the short goes away.   Also,  I tried spinning the reels and while they are spinning there is not short, but when they stop it comes back.  It seems like when reel 2 stops the short comes back.  Tomorrow night I will see what i can find.

[OldReno]

Look at your "C" stack of switches.  They are above and just behind the clock and fan assembly on the left side of your reel mech.  You may find that that large spring which is attached to the variator bar is touching as the reels index and the clock unwinds.  That will give a short with those symptoms. Seen that many times.
Good trouble shooting!!! +1.

[gposing]

Well I was able to trace down a short to the case.  it was in the reel assembly.  I attached to pictures.  Not sure the correct way to fix the problem, but I put a piece of tape on the switch so it would not make contact with the case.  Problem is I still have my issue.  Once a quarter this the exit switch from the hopper fuse goes.  Good news is I got the handle switch to work and now the lights for # of coins in work and I can see the switch moving in the back for the number of coins in.

Gary

[gposing]

Another thing I noticed.  Just below those three white wheels in the back there are 3 relays.  One of them is black and the plastic cover does come off.  Is there a way to test them?  Also, do those white number wheels ever move?  I have not seen them move at all and was wondering if there is a problem with that block of parts.  Is there a way to test it outside of the slot?  Can I jumper the wires to make the solenoids activate for testing.  I tested the hopper with a jumper from orange and yellow wires on the slot?

Thanks
Gary

[Jim]

Gary,
did you ever  take out and test the counter unit?   I believe that is what those switches activate.    those drums with the numbers on them are for multiplying  the coin count output.  depending on how many coins are played determines what drum is in play,  an example would be, to pay out 50 coins, the hopper switches would start counting the coins, that output is steered to the drum according to coins played, so for every fifth coin into the drum it would output one pulse to the actual counter, thereby getting more out of your counting disc.

what does you machine look like overall?  does it have a top box, is it a low boy,?    just trying to imagine what the machine looks like and what other components might come in to play.



Jim
     

[gposing]

It is a low boy.  I took the unit out last night and check for an grounds to the base with no luck.  I want to test the coils, but I am not sure how much voltage to apply.  I think I have 50v from the orange/yellow combination or is it the full 120V.  I did find a quarter stuck in there when I took it out, but that was not it. 

did you see the picture I posted where I put the tape to stop the ground short?  Is there a good way to fix that? 

Gary

[Jim]

the counter unit can be checked manually and electrically. the coil that has all the washers attached to it is the step up coil, everytime it pulses it will advance the wiper arms one space until the number of coins it should payout, then the wiper arm should be off the foil ring and onto a dead spot thereby stopping counting. the other coil on that unit is the reset coil, when the unit is being kicked off that coil is pulsed to reset the counter back to zero, so the counter is ready for the next payout.  you can move the shaft of the coil to start the action that would be done by applying voltage to the coil. so basically you could step up the wiper fingers to a certain count see if the wiper fingers fall off the ring at the right time and then reset the counter using the shaft on the reset coil.

you can use the 50 vac to test these coils.  both are 50vac coils, both should have a orange wire attached to one of the terminals.



Jim 

[gposing]

Thought I would share my findings so far.  the lower coil with the large blue capacitor will not engage, and while testing it the capacitor blew out.  So I have both parts on the way.  I should have them by Monday and will post my results once they are installed. 

[OldReno]

I'm guessing a coil with a blue cap on it is your payout relay coil, which is a 120V coil.  I wouldn't jumper it, but that's me....  Also, check to make sure that if it is a polarized cap, that you install it in the right way. I don't remember if they are or not....
Also, in your picture (Short2) just to the left of your yellow handle are your C switches.  Just to the right you can see that big spring on the variator bar.  Push the variator with that big spring back and see if it contacts in any way your C switches, which will give you an intermittent short.
Also, the rods that push against your switches to close them are insulated.  If any of them are cracked, you can have a short.  I suggest putting some heat shrink over them, if you see any cracks or bare metal.
Good pics by the way, that is really helpful.

[gposing]

Well I had to stop working on the slot for awhile and now I am back at it.  I have attached a photo of the switches on the hopper were I can see the electrical arc.  so  I place a piece of paper between all of them and found it I block the bottom two and the hopper runs there is not a short.  the hopper does run now but times out because the slot is not counting them on the way out. 

I was able to trace the wire that comes off of the switch to the plug in the back of the slot and found that it is connected (somehow) to the large orange wire where the fuse continues to break.  Now I don't know if that is correct or not? 

If you look at the second photo where my red tester is.  that port does connect to the orange wire where the fuse is located.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Gary

[gposing]

Back working on this slot again.  I still have the short when the coins try to pay.  I don't have any drawings for the wiring so I have started my own by tracing them out.  Here is what I ran into when I traced the gray/black wire from the coin out switch.  Not sure what the proper name is for this part, but to me it looks like the coil is bad.  Is there a way to test this coil?  If I need to replace it does anyone have a part number for it.  I can not read any of the numbers off the coil.

Thanks

[OldReno]

Please note my post of Feb 8 is WRONG.  I don't know why I thought that that coil is 120V, must have been a brain fart of some kind...sorry.  Oh well.
You can test your coil with a VOM, or just use two jumpers from your transformer to tickle it and see if it steps.  The discoloration does not mean it is a bad coil.  Run jumper from solid orange on the transformer to the orange on the coil.  Run other side from yellow on transformer to other side of coil.  If it kicks, it's good.

Again, sorry about calling the payout relay a 120V coil, it is not, it is 50V, and just goes to show my ignorance.  The hopper delay relay coil is, I believe 120V....

[gposing]

I checked to voltage from the transformer and it was 50V.  So, I hooked up the wires as stated and nothing moved.  Only left it plugged in for about 2 seconds.  Bad news was there was a small amount of smoke that came from somewhere, but I dont know where.  At this time I figure I need to replace that coil?  Any ideas where I can get one and do you know the part # on it?
Gary

[OldReno]

Did you check the other coil on your board there to see if it worked also?  I usually clip one end of the jumper to the orange, and then just touch very briefly the other side.  If you hold it on there too long it may smoke it.  But a second or so shouldn't be too long. Did you check the plunger of the coil (it's a solenoid) to see if it moved freely or was stuck?  It's good to check your solenoids manually to see if they're stuck or not.
Don't know the number of the coil, sorry.  I'm thinking B25-925A, but that might be some other coil....

[gposing]

No I did not.  I was not sure if I could use the same test on it.  I will be testing both of them tonight.   I saw on ebay that foxslots has some relays posted.  I hope the he can help me out with the right part.