DOJ Questions

[ramegoom]

For those of you who have the cert, what are the requirements? How does someone go about applying for it? What's the main reason you have it?

Enquiring minds....
-John

[zarobhr]

all you need to know is here

http://www.justice.gov/criminal/oeo/gambling/

1. no requirements to get one just fill out form
2. fill out form to apply
3. becuase the law says if you have in your possesion and it has ever been or is going to be transported across state lines then you need it
( all machines have been transported across state lines at some point in the machines life unless of course you happen to live in the state it was built and the casino it went to was also in that state)

#4 havng the DOJ does NOT override any state law. so even if you have a DOJ and live in a sate that does not allow personal ownership of a slot machine it is still illegal

[ramegoom]

Thanks for the link, printed the form and plan to send it in. So, if I plan on purchasing vintage and antique machines, restoring and repairing them, then reselling the machines, I need this in place? Also, I plan on relocating to another state this summer, so I will be transporting these said 80's and vintage machines from one state to another, across the country.

I will pack a truck, send them to CO from IL and the rest is in the game plan. Can you see anything I'm missing?

-John

[CVslots]

Maybe the word "prior" in this sentence copied from the linked page?

"Registration is to be requested in writing each calendar year prior to engaging in business and is effective on the date all required information is received at the Department of Justice."

We usually apply in Nov-Dec for the next calendar year.

EDIT: I did see where you can register anytime during the year for the current calendar year though. So, you should be fine as long as you are registered before you move (assuming no legal issues in the state your moving too, I don't know what CO laws are offhand).

[ramegoom]

Well, looks like I will be getting in the mix. Simple enough, what could go wrong....?

[CVslots]

You may want to send it your app for the DOJ soon. They can take up to 8 weeks or so in Dec-Jan. Not sure what the turnaround is the rest of the year.

[cowboygames]

Are you doing machines as a business or just a hobby?

[ramegoom]

Are you doing machines as a business or just a hobby?

Sort of both. I started by buying  a couple of them to "learn" about how they work. As you all know, it gets out of control real fast. So, I find stashes of multiple machines here and there, can't pass 'em up, and before you know it, I figure I can restore and repair them, sell them as man-cave machines, and have fun in the process. Looking at a lot of 25 old Jennings machines right now, as I've become somewhat proficient in making them work. Then there's these Ballys.....

[cowboygames]

Just wondering because, personally, unless I was selling newer casino pulls I would do everything possible to avoid getting on DOJ's radar. Federal law already gives you the right to transport from one legal state to another, but with the numbers of machines you're planning on dealing with makes the decision a gray area

[slotsteve]

Are you doing machines as a business or just a hobby?

Sort of both. I started by buying  a couple of them to "learn" about how they work. As you all know, it gets out of control real fast. So, I find stashes of multiple machines here and there, can't pass 'em up, and before you know it, I figure I can restore and repair them, sell them as man-cave machines, and have fun in the process. Looking at a lot of 25 old Jennings machines right now, as I've become somewhat proficient in making them work. Then there's these Ballys.....

i hope those jenniining   aren,t from 80 ,s if so you may have a hard time getting parts and finding anyone to buy them imo they are worthless

[ROCKET]

Well, looks like I will be getting in the mix. Simple enough, what could go wrong....?

remember the movie with Mel Gibson  ??  " THE EDGE OF DARKNESS"
 It was based and filmed in  Massachusetts .. the state I live in .

THE FAMOUS LINE THROUGHOUT THE MOVIE WAS EVERYTHING IS ILLEGAL IN  MASSACHUSETTS!!

which is very true .. we have laws on the books that would boggle your mind --that still are used currently .
just a example non related to slotmachines --
I am making this up but would not be surprised if it was not law ?? if a farmer has a wagon with 4 wagon wheels on it --"BUT" MISSING REQUIRED NUMBER OF SPOKES ON A WHEEL -while travelling through a Boston st.
 will pay a fine and have load confiscated by police .

Now with that said many other states have hidden laws --ignorant  police-- who stop you see slotmachines
say oh those are illegal to have -officer wants to make a name for himself "big slot bust". confiscates your truck or van or trailer etc
when you think your in total compliance ..  many slot dealers still today ship "modern day" slots without the mpu boards in them  -because they travel through states you cant have a working slotmachine .
 So it cant be plugged in and used showing working condition. its a load of   parts machines being transported through there state .
As far as I am concerned each state has a "gray area" that can be found if the authorities dig ..
so as far as a DOJ LIC . it may mean sh*t to the local police . because they don't know the law.. just think they do .. so they arrest or summons you to court .confiscate your load . store it at your expense and then the legal battle starts.
Oh sir  it was a mistake??we looked into it found you can transport these items --- you can guaranty your conficated load was damaged or missing some tiny part and hefty towing bill and storage bill -which wont be refunded by police  ..
I am not saying that's the case in your post .. I am just posting what I have seen over the years --even to current date ..
many other dealers can chime in with horror stories of loads of slots or gambling equipment right down to skill stop paschi lo machines considered gambling machines to some --being held at truck or rail loading docks by police -until they find out a law or not find a law .. or if on the road transporting slots the same thing ..
just be carefull and try to follow the rules as close as possible .. plus calling ahead to a specific state -will give you answers you will find helpfull . my 2 cents
Rocket.

P.S.  if you go through MASS. with a load of slots or most other states and have proper documents and log books of travel time -medical cards if driver --proper drivers lic for size of vehicle etc you wont be bothered by the cargo you transport by authorities..
they will  will go after the truck or trailer for "VIOLATIONS" -seen it over and over  again .

[ramegoom]

...the numbers of machines you're planning on dealing with makes the decision a gray area

Wondering about that. Is there a limit to what they might consider "personal collection" and look at it as over the top? I can't find any limiting factors anywhere, but maybe that's the gray area? I realize collections can get out of hand, and eventually it'd be hard to explain that it's only a collection and not a private casino...however, I always use US coins and keep the trays filled with coins, so obviously, you'd look at it and realize you're not using your own cash. Unless I'm missing something. Would tokens be a better choice? Personally, I don't like tokens, and with US coins, at least there is some value if you remove the machine. But tokens? Hmmm. More questions before I pull the pin and go into never-never land with my "hobby".

[cowboygames]

There again, you have to look at the law of the state you're going to. Some have limits, like two machines, others will let you have as many as you want depending on age and what not. They're all different

[ramegoom]

I have been up and down the Colorado website but for the life of me, can't find anywhere where there is a limit to how many machines you can own - or sell - that are within the "Pre-1984" legal possession limits. I think it might be subject to interpretation, but of what, I have no idea.

Talk about ambiguous blah blah.

[cowboygames]

As many as you like as long as they're old enough. Gambling with them is still illegal though

[ROCKET]

As many as you like as long as they're old enough. Gambling with them is still illegal though

AS MANY IN A PRIVATE COLLECTION YOU WANT --ITS WHEN THE LITTLE KIDS COME OVER AND SAY THEY LOST THERE LUNCH MONEY IN MR. WILSON'S SLOTMACHINE THAT WILL GET YOU IN TROUBLE .
we had a member 3 years ago from the LIVE FREE OR DIE STATE ..N.H. he had a officer come to his front door for something ?? saw a igt s-plus red wht & blu on counter running on quarters .. BANG IT GOT CONFICATED because he was using U.S.COIN--- using BILLS going in can be fine .but if it dispenses coin-
 REAL  U.S. COIN CAN BE TROUBLE IN SOME LEGAL STATES---TITO IN TITO OUT IS FINE .. DEMO MODE IS FINE

I RUN ALL MY SLOTS ON 1.00 TOKENS .. OR BILLS --FIRST REASON WHEN YOU PURCHASE A SLOT ITS ALWAYS LESS MONEY TO BUY  A 1.00 MACHINE .. IF ITS CONVERTED TO QUARTERS OR NICKELS THEY HAVE A HABIT OF TAKING THE U.S. COINS  ---BY KIDS OR ADULTS FOR QUICK CHANGE ..

as far as running a casino as COWBOY SAID --NO NO NO WE ALL WILL READ ABOUT YOU LOL
even if you think you can trust someone .. a secret is only a secret until its told ONCE !!

[ramegoom]

OK, so a private collection, even if it's dozens of machines, is generally OK to have. As long as it's not a casino.

But coin usage seems to be a bit of a gray area. I'm not sure why; if the machine is supplied with coins - or tokens - so that the gameroom visitor can play, how can that be conceived as a gambler?

The machines that take bills though, fall outside of the date of manufacture, so I can't even consider them as they're not allowed unless they are older than 1984. I've never seen a bill acceptor on machines that old.

I'm talking a gameroom with a "casino" look, not a real casino. Although some people that have visited question my motives. We will see...

[cowboygames]

If it runs on coins and someone decides to be an asshole and claim they lost money in it how do you defend yourself? I use tokens, all the same tokens, and have machines with a variety of max bet options along with using tokenization so each token inserted plays at least max bet. No arguments and no basis for a gambling claim

[ramegoom]

Yep I guess that's a possibility. I was thinking I would put a pushbutton switch in the coin slot, make it where you push the button instead of insert a coin. I could even use the candle switch. That way you don't actually play any coin, but the win would be coins. Once you empty the hopper, put the coins back in.

Some coin slot sign that says "Push Button To Play". And, your hands won't get black from the coins.