Piggy Bankin boot issue

[dale]

Mermaids had the Jackpot Party theme, about 4 in a row the last time I was there a few months ago. The Las Vegas Club got rid of there's, they had Big Bang Piggy Bankin, X-Factor and Jackpot Stampede Deluxe.

[CyberPeres]

Ok, that gives me the next place to look if the board alone doesn't do the trick. The repair sounds easy enough to do even if the diagnostics leading to it are a bit beyond me.

No, but I am certainly going to now, Thanks !

CyberPeres-

Did you read this interesting message thread about a lower power supply problem on a Dotmation machine that caused lights to flicker, booting problems, erratic operation. He specifically tracked it back to the 18vdc and 5vdc called "5vi" that is produced by the lower power supply. Interesting to read.

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=337.0

[CyberPeres]

Wait. Wait a second, the diagnostics are not beyond me, and I think I just get the theory behind it. Really it's not so bad. I get it now. I could get this whole thing back online with one cap that I have tons laying around. Some values, I have bagfuls of them. If this looks safe to try it's worth it, and I'll still keep the board as a backup. It will at least keep me busy while waiting and sounds right inline with my issues.

Ok, that gives me the next place to look if the board alone doesn't do the trick. The repair sounds easy enough to do even if the diagnostics leading to it are a bit beyond me.

No, but I am certainly going to now, Thanks !

CyberPeres-

Did you read this interesting message thread about a lower power supply problem on a Dotmation machine that caused lights to flicker, booting problems, erratic operation. He specifically tracked it back to the 18vdc and 5vdc called "5vi" that is produced by the lower power supply. Interesting to read.

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=337.0

[CyberPeres]

I figured the cap operation was a blind dice roll and known weak part anyway so it should only help in the long run so I figured what the heck. So I installed the new capacitor, the operation was clean and fairly easy, however it did not improve the situation. In fact I feel a bit worse off in a way and weirdly a bit more stable in another.  Now I get rebooting single bongs instead of a degrading situation. I think I still have a bad main power board. The only thing I can think of is I disturbed the main board enough it degraded what little performance was left. Or and this is a big "or" the person who laid out the repair was wrong that it possibly could just be the cap and I need to change the chip out at the same time as the cap. We'll anyway I might order the chip and wait for the power supply to get here before I mess with it again. The next time I shouldn't go so blindly at it, I'll actually think about component checks as I go.

The other thing is remembering back to the original top power issue I had fixed, the situation was a quickly degrading one until it just stopped dead, maybe it's just I pushed too far on the main board and it said "I quit!"

Wait. Wait a second, the diagnostics are not beyond me, and I think I just get the theory behind it. Really it's not so bad. I get it now. I could get this whole thing back online with one cap that I have tons laying around. Some values, I have bagfuls of them. If this looks safe to try it's worth it, and I'll still keep the board as a backup. It will at least keep me busy while waiting and sounds right inline with my issues.

Ok, that gives me the next place to look if the board alone doesn't do the trick. The repair sounds easy enough to do even if the diagnostics leading to it are a bit beyond me.

No, but I am certainly going to now, Thanks !

CyberPeres-

Did you read this interesting message thread about a lower power supply problem on a Dotmation machine that caused lights to flicker, booting problems, erratic operation. He specifically tracked it back to the 18vdc and 5vdc called "5vi" that is produced by the lower power supply. Interesting to read.

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=337.0

[CyberPeres]

My other option could be to acquire a new whole power "can" as well. If I can find one. Maybe I should back off though and wait for a bit for the board to get here before I make things even worse.

[rokgpsman]

Have you put a meter on the primary voltages created by the lower power supply to see if they are close to nominal? Also, on the I/O board there are 5 lights/LEDs on the front right side as you look into the card cage. These lights should be on & steady, they monitor the main power supply voltages, do they all look ok? Usually (but not always) machines with a bad lower power supply will have some of these I/O lights dark.  (there is also a single LED over on the opposite corner of the I/O board, it is a "fail" LED that indicates a fail/tilt/error has been sensed. Some of the folks here are pretty good at diagnosing problems just from the status of the I/O board LED's.

[Neonkiss]

My other option could be to acquire a new whole power "can" as well. If I can find one. Maybe I should back off though and wait for a bit for the board to get here before I make things even worse.

If it gets to the point where you want to try a new power board for the lower power supply, send me a PM

[rokgpsman]

Last time I was out there I noticed a few "small" casinos on Fremont that had really old machines I bet that was one of them.  I like that those places exist. They can sometimes be a lot of fun kind of playing with the past.

CyberPeres-

Have you visited the upstairs/2nd floor at the "D" (was Fitzgeralds) in downtown Las Vegas on Fremont St? The owners have dedicated that area to slot machines from the recent past, have some oldies but goodies in there including the mechanical horse racing machine called Sigma Derby. You can easily go upstairs from out on Fremont St via an escalator they have on the front side of the building. I didn't see any Dotmations there last time but they did have other machines that were popular at one time. Also, if you rent a car in Vegas and can go to some of the outlying smaller casinos there's no telling what you'll find there since they often can't afford to spend the thousands of dollars on latest machines.

Good luck with getting your machine working, hope the lower power supply is the final fix. An overvoltage like sending 12v down a 5v line can really play havoc with many of the electronic components.

[CyberPeres]

Good question/comment. Not only do I have the capability to meter I also have a handheld scope I can use (as long as I am careful it's a DSO Nano and I am use to using it on small voltages/currents when I working with my Aurduino / Parallax stuff I normally play with). I am just unsure of myself enough on how to approach the tests. Can I plug the "can" out of the machine and test it?  If I can to that is there a pinout sheet on the connectors I can find?

The I/O lights they are on and steady (I need to recheck them since I replaced that cap on the second board.) That's why the cap repair drew my attention. In fact I am still working on that thread. I ordered the 630-HCPL-3700-000E chip from mouser today. My guess is since my behavior changed I might be working in the right area. I think the author of that thread (who did replace both the chip and the cap) may have been wrong about just needing the cap.

when the system is on (while steady) the DS1 fail light is not illuminated, and a few times I either make it through boot (barely) and sometimes I get one game to play (increasing less and less as I go on).   when it leaves being steady the DS1 light comes on.  The power lights on the other side stay steady and I go into reboot bong fits once unstable.

I do hear a power supply type hiss also, this is same as when I did the upper, I got a hiss and then I was in a degrading situation where the dotmation would go down after shorter and shorter runs. replacing the upper supply with a factory fresh unit cured it on the spot.

However, I am going to try to test the voltages and get a solid diagnostic this time around. I feel like I am swinging at a piñata with a blindfold in with the approach I am taking now.

Just for everyone to know, I did order a factory fresh PU-110-31A board from Newark, they have a 45 day lead time on it. But when I ordered my upper I was given a similar lead time but I had it in two weeks, we'll see....

Have you put a meter on the primary voltages created by the lower power supply to see if they are close to nominal? Also, on the I/O board there are 5 lights/LEDs on the front right side as you look into the card cage. These lights should be on & steady, they monitor the main power supply voltages, do they all look ok? Usually (but not always) machines with a bad lower power supply will have some of these I/O lights dark.  (there is also a single LED over on the opposite corner of the I/O board, it is a "fail" LED that indicates a fail/tilt/error has been sensed. Some of the folks here are pretty good at diagnosing problems just from the status of the I/O board LED's.

[CyberPeres]

I have an order in for a factory PU-110-31A right now, it's got a 45 day lead time.  If something goes horribly wrong with the order I'll give you a PM.

My other option could be to acquire a new whole power "can" as well. If I can find one. Maybe I should back off though and wait for a bit for the board to get here before I make things even worse.

If it gets to the point where you want to try a new power board for the lower power supply, send me a PM

[CyberPeres]

Actually, yes it was 1997 however.... I am also pretty sure my machine was there (in the main area) at that casino at that time. Where the player card system was there is a O'Lucky Bucks and O'Lucky Cents graphics around the displays for player comp feedback. I am pretty sure that was what they were doing at the time. Unless one of you guys knows more about it.

Last time I was out there I noticed a few "small" casinos on Fremont that had really old machines I bet that was one of them.  I like that those places exist. They can sometimes be a lot of fun kind of playing with the past.

CyberPeres-

Have you visited the upstairs/2nd floor at the "D" (was Fitzgeralds) in downtown Las Vegas on Fremont St? The owners have dedicated that area to slot machines from the recent past, have some oldies but goodies in there including the mechanical horse racing machine called SIgma Derby. You can easily go upstairs from out on Fremont St via an escalator they have on the front side of the building. I didn't see any Dotmations there last time but they did have other machines that were popular at one time. Also, if you rent a car in Vegas and can go to some of the outlying smaller casinos there's no telling what you'll find there since they often can't afford to spend the thousands of dollars on latest machines.

Good luck with getting your machine working, hope the lower power supply is the final fix. An overvoltage like sending 12v down a 5v line can really play havoc with many of the electronic components.

[CyberPeres]

That made me think.... I was sad in Reno a few weeks ago, the Fitzgeralds there is dead and boarded up now.

Last time I was out there I noticed a few "small" casinos on Fremont that had really old machines I bet that was one of them.  I like that those places exist. They can sometimes be a lot of fun kind of playing with the past.

CyberPeres-

Have you visited the upstairs/2nd floor at the "D" (was Fitzgeralds) in downtown Las Vegas on Fremont St? The owners have dedicated that area to slot machines from the recent past, have some oldies but goodies in there including the mechanical horse racing machine called SIgma Derby. You can easily go upstairs from out on Fremont St via an escalator they have on the front side of the building. I didn't see any Dotmations there last time but they did have other machines that were popular at one time. Also, if you rent a car in Vegas and can go to some of the outlying smaller casinos there's no telling what you'll find there since they often can't afford to spend the thousands of dollars on latest machines.

Good luck with getting your machine working, hope the lower power supply is the final fix. An overvoltage like sending 12v down a 5v line can really play havoc with many of the electronic components.

[CyberPeres]

This is where the HCPL-3700 chip throwing fits makes sense to me.  Erratic behavior on the auxiliary 5 volt line makes sense to me. I just don't know how to meter that one.

It may be what my first issue was all along. maybe I blew my machine into tar for nothing.

Have you put a meter on the primary voltages created by the lower power supply to see if they are close to nominal? Also, on the I/O board there are 5 lights/LEDs on the front right side as you look into the card cage. These lights should be on & steady, they monitor the main power supply voltages, do they all look ok? Usually (but not always) machines with a bad lower power supply will have some of these I/O lights dark.  (there is also a single LED over on the opposite corner of the I/O board, it is a "fail" LED that indicates a fail/tilt/error has been sensed. Some of the folks here are pretty good at diagnosing problems just from the status of the I/O board LED's.

[rokgpsman]

Good question/comment. Not only do I have the capability to meter I also have a handheld scope I can use (as long as I am careful it's a DSO Nano and I am use to using it on small voltages/currents when I working with my Aurduino / Parallax stuff I normally play with). I am just unsure of myself enough on how to approach the tests. Can I plug the "can" out of the machine and test it?  If I can to that is there a pinout sheet on the connectors I can find?

I've not tried it but would think that you could remove the entire lower power supply unit (the metal box) and plug it into a 115v line cord, then measure the various voltages coming out of it. There may be a connector list or pictures somewhere on this website so you'd know where to check the voltages. You will be needing to remove it anyway to install the new power supply board from Newark.

There is a document on this site that has drawings of the various assemblies in different WMS slot machines, it probably has the lower power supply as well and maybe the connector definitions. Try looking at this one, somewhere around pdf page 29, maybe earlier:

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=939


The hissing sound may be a failing part inside the lower power supply metal box, so you should probably do a good visual inspection and sniff test after you remove it and can open it up for a good look inside, before you power it up and do anything else. Your eyes & nose may find something wrong a lot faster than doing meter & scope checks. After you get it removed from the machine and opened up spend a little time doing a thorough look-over. Also, as you are removing the entire lower power supply and then disassembling it you might want to take pictures along the way, could be real helpful a few days or weeks from now when it is time to put it back together. Lots of elec cables, screws and stuff that you could easily forget what goes where.

[rokgpsman]

This is where the HCPL-3700 chip throwing fits makes sense to me.  Erratic behavior on the auxiliary 5 volt line makes sense to me. I just don't know how to meter that one.

It may be what my first issue was all along. maybe I blew my machine into tar for nothing.

If that HCPL chip is powered by 5v and it was hit with 12v during "the big event" it could have gotten zapped.

[CyberPeres]

That's one of my thoughts also, except that 5 volt supply is suppose to be independent by it's function, and I have been inspecting inside the can while I replaced the cap that was shown in the post someone linked here on the matter.  I don't see anything obvious. I think these hisses are generally coil whines when other components fail or start to fail. They start to act like speaker coils because they start operating in the audio harmonics range. But that's just a guess from me. Thanks for that link I'll check it out.

This is where the HCPL-3700 chip throwing fits makes sense to me.  Erratic behavior on the auxiliary 5 volt line makes sense to me. I just don't know how to meter that one.

It may be what my first issue was all along. maybe I blew my machine into tar for nothing.

If that HCPL chip is powered by 5v and it was hit with 12v during "the big event" it could have gotten zapped.

[CyberPeres]

Yeah, I took pictures, and I also mark cables with a marker. The boards are mostly marked with their numbers J1, J2, etc.  I have learned my lesson from repairing other electronics in the past. It's good to bring up here because not everyone has the same experience. You can get into real trouble if not careful. With my initial event I proved that in spades.

Good question/comment. Not only do I have the capability to meter I also have a handheld scope I can use (as long as I am careful it's a DSO Nano and I am use to using it on small voltages/currents when I working with my Aurduino / Parallax stuff I normally play with). I am just unsure of myself enough on how to approach the tests. Can I plug the "can" out of the machine and test it?  If I can to that is there a pinout sheet on the connectors I can find?

I've not tried it but would think that you could remove the entire lower power supply unit (the metal box) and plug it into a 115v line cord, then measure the various voltages coming out of it. There may be a connector list or pictures somewhere on this website so you'd know where to check the voltages. You will be needing to remove it anyway to install the new power supply board from Newark.

There is a document on this site that has drawings of the various assemblies in different WMS slot machines, it probably has the lower power supply as well and maybe the connector definitions. Try looking at this one, somewhere around pdf page 29, maybe earlier:

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=939


The hissing sound may be a failing part inside the lower power supply metal box, so you should probably do a good visual inspection and sniff test after you remove it and can open it up for a good look inside, before you power it up and do anything else. Your eyes & nose may find something wrong a lot faster than doing meter & scope checks. After you get it removed from the machine and opened up spend a little time doing a thorough look-over. Also, as you are removing the entire lower power supply and then disassembling it you might want to take pictures along the way, could be real helpful a few days or weeks from now when it is time to put it back together. Lots of elec cables, screws and stuff that you could easily forget what goes where.

[CyberPeres]

I finally got the HCPL-3700  chips in the mail yesterday.  I have some thinking to do, I think I am going to socket the chip rather than risk the heating. I know have 8 pin sockets on hand. I don't think I have 6 pin ones. I can mod or see if radio shack carries what I need but I'll get my next answer in either case soon. I really hope this is it.


Still no motion on my order for the lower supply board I custom ordered. If it comes to that it's going to be a wait, and I'll start seriously checking the outputs and get actual meter and scope readings in the mean time. Now that I have all the schematics and system diagrams I got from here posted  on this site, I can really look at this. The main power board is a bit over my head but the secondary card in the can is pretty simple.

[CyberPeres]

Ok, the work went well, however I am in the same boat. I put the socket in, it did happen to be a 8 pin chip. I ordered 3 chips, the first one out of the pack was some other chip (I have to look it up yet) that had six pins the other two in the pack were right. While I was disassembling the can I noticed some crumbly looking material I could not find where it came from so I figured it might be from my original bad power supply. while assembling the can I found a resistor on a daughter card of the main power supply board that looked like the coating was scuffed and the metallic case underneath exposed slightly. No char no sign of thermal damage but the crusty stuff must have come from it.  Looks like I have to wait for the power supply now. I am guessing more than one component is dead or dying here.

[CyberPeres]

News finally news ! After a long wait I have been informed my power board is on it's way ! A brand new factory board ! Not old casino shelf stock. Wow I actually think they built one fresh for me. Now soon we'll see if all this waiting pays off.  The cost of this is somewhere around 150 dollars complete. Not bad considering being brand new. I also hope that all the old weaknesses are engineered out, as I find this board was used for far more than these slots. Well anyway, I have waited years just to be this far, that 2.5 month wait was just a blip.

[Neonkiss]

 

[CyberPeres]

It's ALIVE...... It's ALIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (About friggin time too....)

Now I am truly scared !!!!!!!!! The board did the trick! The only noise besides running is the light hum of the florescent lighting ! No coil noise, no gut wrenching flashing or any jittery anything !

I want to THANK EVERYBODY here that helped me. You guys are fantastic ! Now I worry about the chips bit-rotting, and other assort nightmare stuff, right now I feel a bit gun-shy and more than a bit shell shocked. things like "did I really do it?" "how long until I kill it again?" "will the wife ever forgive me or trust my electronics skill?"

Right now I am a bit overwhelmed, I am operating, fine. But can I change the settings? (IE. did the crumb that sold me the half dead power supply give me the wrong reset chip?) For now I think I'll back off and enjoy what I have. My biggest problem on working on stuff like this is doing one last thing. Not this time.... It took 10 years to get back online I'm not about to lose that for now.

I wholly believe the only way to  go on this issue is get your hands on a factory fresh power board. If I loose this one down the road I think I am going to get the "equivalent" replacement. That one is not special order and is certified to medical standards. This time I wanted the original specified board.

Guys and Gals, these power boards are not casino machine specific, they are standard off the shelf power boards, my new one is from xp power, bought from Newark.

BIGGEST LESSON LEARNED ----> DO NOT ASSUME UPPER AND LOWER POWER BOARDS ARE THE SAME (You will fry just about everything !) . AND ALSO WHEN YOU HAVE ANY DOUBT WHATSOEVER YOU ASK SOMEONE WHO KNOW MORE THAN YOU.

[CyberPeres]

proof.

[Neonkiss]

Looks good

[rokgpsman]

Good to hear you got it going. Don't be afraid to change settings like the volume level, attract mode and other preferences, it's all covered in the manual. Enjoy the play, it's a classic!