1114 Hopper pays then requires reset

[Groutrig]

I am sorry if this has been asked and answered, I couldn't find it.  I have a Bally 1114.  The hopper pays correctly on a win, but won't pay the next win.  If I push the reset solenoid it will pay the next win, but wont pay any subsequent wins unless I push the reset again.  Any help would be appreciated.

[Amachanic]

     I'm guessing by your post that this is what they call an E-Series machine? If it is, does it show a code or any other numbers on the win meter? Does the tilt light come on?

Gary

[Groutrig]

Thank you Gary for your reply.  No, I have no error code or tilt.  Here is my machine.

[Groutrig]

I found a post that said to push back fully on the variator bar ( just above the clock fan) because it activates the "B" switches and pulses the hopper reset coil.  I did that but my problem still exists.

[Amachanic]

Ok it looks like your machine is an earlier EM model slot machine. You say it pays all jackpots correctly? Then nothing next time? How about a couple of pics of the inside. What reset solenoid are you pushing? Can you show a pic of that?

Gary

[Groutrig]

thanks for helping me.  Here are some pics.  The last pic is the solenoid used for reset.

[Groutrig]

more pics coming

[Groutrig]

Gary,  like I say.  If I push the reset solenoid and then play the machine, it pays correctly, once.  After that, it will not pay until i push the reset solenoid again.

[Jim]

turn that unit around, you will probably find the rubber bumper stuck in the open position.  the black shock absorber is gooy and sticky  sticks to either a teal or gray pivot bar.



hope this helps


Jim   

[Amachanic]

That's called the zero switch. If you push in the other solenoid with the washers that advances your spiral cam. That advances one click for each coin paid. As that advances the zero switch should open. Most people use a pencil eraser to replace the now sticky / gooie bumper. I've also seen a piece of electrial tape put over the bumper.

Gary

[Groutrig]

Gary, I will try that, thanks.  Update .. I was just playing the machine and it paid on orange orange bar as it should, then nothing on cherries, then paid on 3 oranges, then no pay on 3 oranges.  I'll try the gooie bumper repair and let you know.  Thanks again

[Groutrig]

Gary, I looked and looked.  I can not find any bumper.  where exactly is this bumper supposed to be?

[Groutrig]

My BAD ! DUH  I found the bumper.  I guess mine has been replaced, mine is metal.  Question...IF i throw the teal (or grey) bar should the zero solenoid retract?

[Groutrig]

i cleaned the contacts.  I reset the zero solenoid, and played the machine.  it paid on a cherry, did not pay on 2 cherries, paid on 3 plumbs, did not pay on 3 oranges, did not pay on any cherries, did not pay on 3 bells.  I have no other ideas left to try.  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks  PS  the teal bar is not sticking.

[Jim]

if you are absolutely sure the counter unit is operating as it should and you still are not getting paid for certain combs then the switch and wiring network in the reel mech would be the next area to check.

here is a link to test every possible payout on the machine.  http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=24135.0

you said three oranges did not pay, use the method described by Old Reno and set it for this payout, if nothing happens, moved each reel (wiggle) very slowly and see if it will cause a payout, if it does check other combos, could be the wiper switches on one of the reels is not aligning as it should.

the other possibility is the reels strips themselves have moved out of position and are not where they should be.
 

[Groutrig]

Jim,  Thank you for the help.  I followed Old Reno's directions, and yours.  I could not get the hopper to pay.  However, when I push down on the zero solenoid it pays correctly.  I'm beginning to think that the zero solenoid is randomly resetting itself as the machine is played.  Sometimes it pays and most times not.  All pays are the correct amount.  The other odd thing, but could be just happenstance, it seems that once a combo pays, that combo won't pay again but a different will.  For example, I was trying different winning combos with no pay but then 3 Bars did pay.  When I reset the zero solenoid any combo I put it on will pay, then only some will pay until I push the zero solenoid again.  I can't figure this one out.

[OldReno]

It sounds like maybe your payboard is dirty, or the wiper fingers contacting it are not making contact well.  Step up the payboard to about 50 (just turn the spiral cam), and then look in at the lower pay tabs to see if they are dirty.  Then, you might want to lift up each of the payfingers to see if they snap when you release them.  They should have at least a little bit of tension on them.
Please post a pic of the zero stop switch, and where your bumper is/was/is supposed to be.  That might help.
The first thing to do always on a no pay or mispay situation is to look at where the payboard wiper fingers are.  If they are back at zero, then the hopper has reset.  If they are not on zero, it has not. If you have a 10 coin pay, (oranges) and the hopper (payboard) does not reset, it will not pay on cherries.  However, it WILL pay 4 coins when you next hit plums.  Hope that makes sense.
Always check where payboard fingers are on a mispay.

Also, your payfingers may be resetting back too far, and missing the pay tabs.  IN that case, on a no pay situation, reach in and pull slightly forward on the carriage (that's what holds the outboard wipers onto the payboard.)  Often this will be the problem.  I always tug on the carriage if there is a no pay, and surprisingly it often works.  Especially since you are missing your rubber bumper, it may well be the fingers are resetting too far back.  I think this may be your problem.  The rubber bumper not only controls the reset zero switch, but more importantly it determines where you spiral cam/wiper fingers reset to.  You can do adjusts on the hopper board this way. Too far back makes a no pay.  Too far forward causes a 1 coin short pay.

So we're not sure if it is really a reset problem or a pay problem.  Again, always check position of wiper fingers after a mispay.

[Groutrig]

a little update.  I set a 2 coin win (can play up to 3 coins) on the reels. Zero solenoid had tripped and not reset from a previous win.  Machine should have paid 40 coins but only paid 30.  Unplugged machine, reset zero solenoid, plugged machine in and it paid 40 coins correctly.  Any ideas of what to check next would be appreciated.

[OldReno]

Reply #5 and 6 here: http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=19448.0
will show you how to reset payboard without having to unplug the machine each time.  Locate this tab behind your payboard section, and you should be able to reach back and trip it to reset the board.  You should be able to do it with power on, and just be careful to touch only that tab, without touching any of case with your other hand.  Use the one hand in the pocket rule so you don't short yourself to case.  Although you should not have any problems.
Try it with power off a few times so you can get the hang of it.  I've done this many many many times with no ill effects.
Also, may I suggest you work on your pay problems with one coin in first to prevent confusion.  2 coin and 3 coin in pays are different than single coin ones, and use different circuits.  If the machine pays correctly on all single coin pays, then you are good to go, and fixing the multi coin pays should be a snap.

[Groutrig]

Old Reno, thanks heeps for your help.  here is a pic of the bumper that is metal and not rubber.

Also, I do not know what you mean by payboard.  Is it the green spiral thing next to the bumper?

[OldReno]

Actually, just now looking at the pics of your payboard, you can just carefully reach back and push down on your reset solenoid plunger, as I see it is setting right there and easily accessible.  Be aware it may be a sudden surprise if it decides to pay again right then, so don't hurt yourself when it starts kicking out coins.  Be ready for it and don't jump and scrape your hand on the way out.  Use a glove if you wish to push down the plunger.

[OldReno]

Yes, on the green spiral cam, which contacts onto the payboard, there are a set of wiper fingers.  When they reset, they must still be on the pay tabs as you will see them.  If they come back too far (because your rubber bumper is missing) then they will not be contacting the pay tabs, and the machine cannot pay.  The payboard is where your solder joints are, connecting wires coming from the reel mech to the pay tabs.  The pay tabs are your payboard.

[Groutrig]

Reno,  I got it, easy to reset now, and I know that this is the payboard.  My payboard is not connected to the hopper, it is sitting free in the cabinet behind the hopper.

[Groutrig]

When the payboard is reset, it looks like it is set on 2.. (see pic)

[Groutrig]

By the way, my wires are long enough I can pull the payboard out of the cabinet and put the hopper back in.  I can play with the bayboard while operating the machine.