Can a Dog gets a Cat Scan? / a dignified way out. Yes? No?

[Neonkiss]

OK, I got you attention now.
We normally all go about our lives and share our knowledge of slot machines on this great forum, but seldom know personal information about each other. We all have our "LIFE" issues and unless you're a personal friend of another member we know little about each other. Let me take a minute of your time and share where I am. Everyone knows John..too many numbers, and remember his dog Rudy and the love for the dog the John has. He still to this day has pictures of Rudy on his slot machine parts website. Many others have their pets and we love them as our children. For me and my wife, they are our children. About a year ago we were asked to foster care for a Lab puppy. This was asked to us by a breeder as the dog was returned for health issues and she knew she had a sucker when she met my wife. We took in the pup and immediately noticed the health issues. Long story short, he was diagnosed with a liver shunt where his liver was not filtering out the ammonia from the protein in foods. He was put on medication and a special no protein diet and he dramatically improved. The vet's told us he may live a health life but somewhat shortened with the medication and diet so took the next step and adopted him and named him Bentley. Ya, it's the only way I was going to afford my own Bentley. 
It's been about a year now and his latest blood work is not good. All three of his vets have agreed that surgery is the only way he'll have any chance of living a close to normal life again. He's had ultrasounds' but they did not detect the shunt so the next step is a CT-scan. Two types of shunts can exist where if the blood vessels are close to the surface of the organ they can be repaired easily, but if there deep inside only a high speed CT scan will detect them. The latter surgery requires imaging with contrast and the only facility with this equipment is 300 miles away at the University of Gainesville. Fearing the worst since the ultrasound never detected the shunt, we'll be heading to Gainesville early Thursday morning with Bentley. At least we'll be able to determine if his condition is operable with the equipment at the University.

So yes, I did do a big downsizing in my machines and moved to a much smaller warehouse about 5 months ago but now I'm back to selling off more stuff. In the end this will amount to a hefty price and would be cheaper to send a kid to this College. We made a commitment when we took him in and now that he has been a part of our family we have to do what needs to be done.
I don't do Facebook, but my wife has made him a page. If you want to follow along he can be found at https://www.facebook.com/bentley.kisarewich

At times like these, I'm glad we don't have kids and it makes me wonder how you guys with them do it. 

[uniman]

Bentley is one lucky dog to have such wonderful owners!   
Understand how you feel.
We been through trips to Michigan State University Vet Clinic when my Basset Hound had cancer.

Wishing Bentley the best.

[4 Deuces]

Agreed, very lucky pet.

I tease my mother that my doggy sister gets so much more than I ever did.  I call her little Daschund the Ten Thousand Dollar dog because she's been through two surgery's on her back and neck (common in Daschunds).  Her name is Sassy and I'll ask my mother to have Sassy leave Bentley some pee-mail.

Best wishes for your treasured Bentley.

:Dave

[cowboygames]

Neon, best of luck to Bentley, he's a very lucky dog to have such dedicated people and I'm sure he shows his gratitude for that. I can't think of anything my wife and I wouldn't do for Abby of she needed it, including getting her a sister for Christmas. Her name is Jenny...

[Ron (r273)]

I am sure there are 100's of stories about pets, so here is mine. Our dog Muffy had her 15 seconds of fame
with Rudy. She has been on special high priced dog food for many years. She now is 13 and has been Diabetic
for about 5 years taking human diabetic shots twice a day. She has lost 90% of her hearing though many ear
infections over years. Her sight is cut down to seeing only shadows. She had a bout with pancreatitis twice in the last year.
One of the times she was put into a dog hospital for 24 hour care and observation costing $1,000 per day. She is
now hand feed with Diabetic food and a little chicken baby food mixed so we can give her shots on time. She sets
up in your arms like a little baby with her bib on and eats like there is no tomorrow. When she is done she lets out
a little whimper she is done.  She now walks though the house just fine and sleeps in different rooms. She recognizes
the family by smell when you walk into the room. She still comes around wanting to sleep in your lap. So we take it a day
at a time and enjoy her and love her very much.

Good luck with Bentley.

Ron (r273)

[ROCKET]

Great stories guys --
my dad was a Veterinarian -so growing up in the 60's early 70's I saw about every animal you could think of pass
through his business .located at the opposite end of my childhood home .He  was the only Vet. for a 5 town area when he started after WW-II  .
I  learned alot from being a kennel boy at 8 yrs old to 16 yrs old working for the family business . common sense was the biggest one .
there were times a dog came in that was hit by a car that were savable--but not sensible in long run .. but long term were to costly or not sensible to do to a animal at the time. so the owner was advised of the best options -then decide would ask for the dog to be put down .

a very hard thing to do for some putting down a loved pet -----others understood that it was the best thing for the dog or cat etc .
======================================================
many years later -after my dad passed away -I still get asked advise on pets that neighbors have what to do etc
when they find out there is a serious problem with the dog or cat etc .
 
 best story is my neighbor the lawyer & his wife --great people . they visit AZ. each year for vacation from MA. They purchased a a mix poodle /lab in AZ. for 3000.00 bucks flew the dog home -paid for the trainer to fly up from AZ. and put her up for the first mo nth in a motel .had the trainer come each day to train the dog to there home and property .
I had advised putting up a underground electric fence for the dog so he would not run into street traffic -the typical zap collar when getting within 10 feet of fence .

so they are into the dog now for about 6000.00 bucks --3 months later the dog is almost a year old the husband put a 5 feet lead on dog to take him for a walk while he put out the trash cans for roadside pickup . while putting the barrels out by st. the dog walked into the travel lane was hit by a car. he called me up at once i noticed both rear legs broken - i took a pin  from my shirt collar and
stuck it between the paws of each of the dogs feet to prove the spinal column was not broken -brought dog to local local vet in my truck . he stayed there 24 hrs at a cost of 3600.00 the vet said he needs pins installed in both rear legs that the local vet would not do . he said bring dog into Boston to "Angel Memorial hosp. for animals . the estimated cost for operation and rehab was 46,000.00
I said to neighbor thats the going price . but my opinion is put the dog down he will have arthritis early on if ever walk correct again ??plus for 50k you can buy any type of dog you want ?

He & his wife and kids had a family meeting -they paid to have dog operated on and rehab -dog walks with a limp and is now 8 yrs old with arthritis -but he had the money to pay the medical bills at the time .
then my neighbor advised me there are plenty of "animal" insurance policy's  available now for dogs cats etc for medical bills accidents -cancer-etc .
my opinion it still boils down to quality of life for the animal .the same as in humans --I asked my neighbor 3 yrs ago would he of spent 50 k on that dog again and he said no way . seeing the dog has early arthritis in rear legs -limps kids grew out of the "new dog"
factor -but he said the dog has been a good dog and company for him and his wife .
so I understand the love of animals VERY WELL ENJOY THEM THEY ARE MANS BEST FRIEND !!
   
 

[BadMaddison]

I'm riding for you, Bentley!

Love, Maddison the Bichon

[jay]

   I still struggle that we can put our pets down as the "humane" thing to do, but yet we can not ask a doctor to assist with putting ourselves down for the same reasons.

When my mother had Pancreatic Cancer she was able to refuse treatment, and file a do not resusitate order. This bascially became a death watch while her body starved itself to death.
If you remember the first polterguiest movie with the "living corposes" popping out of the ground this is escentially what her life became.  With her body riddled with cancer, she was unable to consume food in the normal way, not taking an IV, and no longer in control of her bowels it got pretty ugly. We brought in Hospice care to the home when we were no longer able to cope with the amount of care needed. Hardly a death with dignity, and certainly not humane by any definition. For the lawmakers and those with religious objections I would think that if they worked in hospice for a week or so they would quickly change their minds. I am certainly not advocating that this is the right solution for everyone (think Logans Run) but having the right to choose should be available alongside the right controls.

Moms been gone a while now so I am comfortable in the discussion of end-of-life care and personal choice for euthenasia. Opinions on the matter ?

[channelmaniac]

I'm all for it. Give a dying person a dignified way out. They shouldn't be made to crap all over themselves and have to rely on family when dying at home or on mean strangers when dying at a nursing home.

[ROCKET]

Jay you and I share the same thoughts as we have spoken of in the past --from the same death sentence my older brother died from a few yrs after your mom .
yes there should be a set of rules that >>over rule << the options available today -which are bluntly !!!SUCK OPTIONS .

The old DR Korvokian gift certificate would of been my last present to my brother -after you find out always to late for any type of operation for pancreas cancer --as in the whipple cut on the pancreas -that gives you 1 to 2 yrs in most cases extended life if lucky .
4-months from diagnosis to death is hardly enough time to even write the Bucket list up.

then they say suicide is a coawards way out ??? hang out in a Oncologist office and treatment area 1 day a week for 5 yrs as i did back in 1999-2004 not for cancer but other blood related problems I had treatments on and you will get a real eye opener when you dont see a person that was there for 8 weeks ever again then others who chew your ear off asking you how long do you have to live ??

I am all for the right to die if suffering from a terminal disease.

enough gloom and doom today -treat every day as if its your last .

[Neonkiss]

enough gloom and doom today -treat every day as if its your last .

I agree completely. Do what you want, when you want. If you put it off, it may never happen.

Up dates with Bentley can be found at his facebook page here.
https://www.facebook.com/bentley.kisarewich

We just got home last night and now have decision to make.

[StatFreak]

One of my two cats has lymphoma and has been hanging in there on steroids for the last six months, which is longer than the doctor gave him. He's actually doing quite well in that he hasn't gotten any worse since he started the treatment. In many ways I've been lucky this time out because the doctor said that there would be no pain and I wouldn't have to make that hard decision we all loathe. He'll eventually lose energy until he just doesn't wake up one day. I've had him since he was four and he's almost 13 now. I'm sitting forward in my lounge chair while I type and he's pushed his way in behind me and taken over the chair.  At least I have a warm, vibrating back.  

I had had my previous cat (before these two) for his entire life and had to put him to sleep when he suffered complete kidney failure. He had been in and out of the hospital and I had been giving him saline IVs at home and feeding him liquids with a pump. It just got to be too much to see him suffering. The only hope would have been a kidney transplant which I couldn't even begin to afford.

Even so, I couldn't think of living without their companionship.

[channelmaniac]

The thread was reported... and I agree with the reporter that the topic is pretty heavy handed for the forum, but rather than remove it, I moved it to the Rants and Raves section where controversial topics belong.

Raymond

[BadMaddison]

"I'm all for it. Give a dying person a dignified way out. They shouldn't be made to crap all over themselves and have to rely on family when dying at home or on mean strangers when dying at a nursing home."

If you're reading this, and you know who you are, then you should have deleted your own post and not simply have moved the topic.

To suggest anyone at any nursing facility is "mean" to a dying patient is reprehensible.

Seems "mean strangers" are closer than anyone knew.

[channelmaniac]

Baloney. Pure baloney. Besides, the post is right next to this one in the list so everyone knows I was the one to write it.

My mom, mother-in-law, and sister-in-law are nurses. Each has done their time in nursing homes while in nursing school. my MIL and SIL worked at nursing homes afterwards and I've heard all kinds of horrific stories from each on how patients get treated. There is NO dignity in being in a nursing home and the staff can be VERY cruel to patients/residents.

You seem to either own a nursing home, are related to someone who owns a nursing home, or are very ignorant of what happens inside of them. They are NO place for the living. The staff is underpaid, they are overworked, the turnover rate is terrible, and the amount of paperwork they have to do is incredible. Administrators try to get the staff to do as much paperwork as they can when they are OFF the clock - yes, it's illegal and yes, it does occur. The owners try everything the can, short of diluting medicines, to save money. It's disgusting.

My stepfather died last January and my father-in-law a year ago last March. Both were terrified at the prospect of going to a nursing home. Both knew exactly what happens in those places. Both would've taken a dignified way out if one was available for them. Luckily my stepfather got his wish and died from kidney failure within days of when he couldn't go to the bathroom and sit on the toilet. He didn't want to be that much of a burden to mom. What he didn't know is that mom refractured her back where it was fused when she caught him falling one day. She was in incredible pain until a few months ago when she had another back surgery. If he would've known that it would've given him severe depression so we all kept it from him. My FIL, on the other hand was in much worse shape and had a much prolonged death from cancer. He spent a couple of short stints in the nursing home and suffered from it.

If you want to debate this topic, this is the R&R section and is a great place to keep this where it's away from the rest of the forum. Just beware, I'm not going to bullshit you or hold back on this topic or the other topic. People need a dignified way out when there is no hope. Kidney failure at > 90yrs old = no hope. They do not do dialysis on someone that old and a transplant will never happen at that age. Stage four cancer that has spread to multiple places in the body is a death sentence. It was the 2nd time he fought cancer and the chemo he was given made him shit out the lining of his intestines. Food he ate would come out the other end chewed but not even processed by his body. He wanted and needed a dignified way out but could not get it. He at least died at home and not in a nursing home.

I can go back further to my grandfather on my dad's side who was bedridden and crippled with severe arthritis. He was curled in a ball in a fetal position, weighed less than 80 pounds, and was in constant pain. I took my wife to see him and all he did was beg me for a gun to end it all. He needed a dignified way out as well. At least he was able to die at home with someone caring for him that loved him and not some stranger rolling him around in the bed.

I'm sure that there are many many many other stories on this forum.

[BadMaddison]

You want to sit and type about horrific diseases that happen to good people through no fault of their own then there are much more appropriate and beneficial forums than this to do it.  I would strongly urge you to find one and invest your obvious passions in one where your beliefs could hopefully help someone in need because I don't see what positives would come from your misdirected anger here.

Spending a few weeks in a nursing home whilst going through nursing school is a far cry from actually working in one, my friend.

You don't know me. How dare you sit and judge me. I don't have to defend myself to you or anyone else. Head's up though; I've been an advocate for each and every one of your family members you've mentioned so far for the past 30 years so your fists are readied against the wrong opponent already. Why don't you put 'em down and take a breath?

Don't you believe for a moment that the majority of nurses and/or aides who make up the majority of the physical bedside nursing positions in any facility aren't in it for the main reason other than that they want to help people. They enjoy the physical hands on aspect of nursing even if it DOES mean paperwork on their own time, missed breaks, no vacations, no paid overtime, coming in on their days off, double shifts, backbreaking work on holidays nights and weekends that is often unpleasant, and a lot of it is work that families can't do or are unable or unwilling to do.

I'm not saying you fall into any of those categories because I don't know you.

I'm not suggesting your circumstances or feelings aren't extremely painful because of course they are.

I am suggesting that caregivers develop feelings for their patients and their patient's families, too, and while the dynamics may be different the tears all roll down the same direction.

I agree that nursing homes are not the ideal place for the ill, frail elderly person to live in their last days nor are families able to afford live in care for their loved ones, but to call the care givers dedicated to doing the best they can "mean" just proves you ignorant of the sacrifices they make for your sake.

Or should I say we?

[channelmaniac]

Reading is fundamental, my friend.

Each has done their time in nursing homes while in nursing school. my MIL and SIL worked at nursing homes afterwards

My MIL and SIL worked for years in nursing homes and have had to do MANY write-ups of people who were cruel and mean to patents and had to work hard to get people fired for it. Workers who would hit patients or would yell at them to shut up when they were in pain or would jerk them around angrily causing bruises and worse. It's disgusting. The only place I would EVER put a member of my family is in a hospice center and NEVER in a nursing home or combination nursing home/hospice center. I've never met an ugly or mean hospice worker, but have known my share of horrific people at nursing homes and having to look them in the face when going to visit my SIL or MIL for lunch and knowing what those people did.

There are people that want to help and I never said there were NONE of that type. The cards are stacked against them. You get some ugly jackass fired and you have to do extra work without extra pay - basically THEIR JOB - until management decides that they should ignore profit and hire another person to do that job. Yes, my wife has a cousin who manages nursing homes. She is a troubleshooter that goes in and turns them around so I do have an understanding of how they are run and how they should be run.

I also know they don't develop feelings for very many patient families that are good. Families are fall under certain categories - good ones that are nice, jerks who complain and threaten to report everything to state boards, and ones that rarely ever visit or just don't visit at all. They tend to not care about the good ones because they don't get in the way of staff, but boy do they roll eyes and complain about the jerk families.

I think you have rose colored glasses and I'm a cynical person. I doubt we'll meet in the middle on this.

[BadMaddison]

Well, you obviously know much more than I.

I've been a registered nurse for the better part of those 30 years I mentioned. Taking care of people's loved ones under all the same circumstances I mentioned except the majority of my years were not in a horrible place you describe.

But you know more than I.

And since we are not going to agree on much other than I was pleasant and acknowledged your pain and that I've been a 30+ year advocate for you and all patients and their families, let me tell you something.

One of "you", a patient, hadn't had a drink in a while so his family dumped him off at our hospital in the middle of the night. I brought him some juice knowing he would be waking up very thirsty. The other nurses said "tie him up! he's a pain in the ass" but I didn't because I don't believe in doing that despite the fact "everyone else does it". He wasn't confused, in fact, he was a pain in the ass.

Anyway, he drank the juice and wanted more.  I went to get it, thinking he would drink it and go back to bed like he had done all night. When I returned with his juice he grabbed my arm, threw me up against the wall, twisted my arm behind me and broke my shoulder. Just because he felt like it. No charges pressed because he was not here legally, thus a paperwork pain in the ass. Poof!

Two surgeries and two and a half years of pain lead me to fooling around on here in the middle of the night.  Trust me when I tell you I've been dodging fists, kicks, bites, spitting and throwing of every conceivable fluid and then some.  Knucklehead coworkers leaving bloody needles behind. Patients with guns, knives, needles, drugs and homeboys waiting outside for me.

Rose colored glasses don't come in my size. But you know more than I.

Agree to disagree.

[channelmaniac]

Maybe you should've listened to your co-workers, or had security there if he was a known violent person. That's your bad. A little "Vitamin H" would've gone a long way with that guy.

Your sarcasm leaves little to be desired in debating this topic with you "But you know more than I" as it's distasteful. If this is how you argue then I feel sorry for your friends and family. It also sounds like you work in a hospital and not in a nursing home. They are very different places and I know how a major city's ER goes... mom did that for a year at Parkland in Dallas before moving into the CICU where people are far more civil. She's now retired, forced into it by an on-the-job injury thanks to a crappy coworker who dropped her end of a patient being moved.

Perhaps if you are this bitter, you should do more gaming and less talking about work. I prefer to repair video arcade game logic boards when work gets too much for me. Grabbing a board, putting it on the bench, and using a logic probe lets me forget the day job and other stresses while I concentrate on figuring out why a board isn't working. It's pure pleasure working on a board and letting the world melt away.

I just wish I was back home where I could grab a board. It has been a busy week of international business travel and I have another week to go. I'm sitting in Warsaw right now waiting on a flight to Germany. If you ever get to the Dallas area, I'd be happy to toss a rack of ribs on the smoker and hand you a drink of choice - leaded (beer, wine, liquor) or unleaded (soda, tea, milk, coffee, cocoa, juices, etc...) and talk games - just no work talk.

Raymond

[Joeylc]

Rants and Raves is a good place for this....  I have to agree with jay on this one......  Pull the dam plug let me die with my dignity...   

[Neonkiss]

Hospice is great and they do a good service. Basically they keep increasing the Morphine which suppresses the respirations.
It is Dr. K in a legal way.

As for Bentley, since we don't have kids I'll do what needs to be done for him and if he's ever in pain, I'll make the correct decision. But I have to see if the surgery will give him another 4 or more years.

I don't really think this post was meant as a "Rants and Raves" but it certainly has turned into one.