repair dotmatrix display

[mgmgb19]

Is there anyone that repairs dot matrix  displays on Jack pot party machines. I purchased a power supply for the upper board it didn't help'  The display jumps around.

[dale]

Have you ever had another game  in this machine to make sure it isn't a board or chips that are causing the problem?

Dale

[mgmgb19]

I unplugged the board and the machine for 30 days it worked well again for about 2 days the it started to act up again.

[dale]

Well Ok, just trying to eliminate some possibilities. How about this, do you have any spare games, IO boards, CPU boards or dot boards so that you can start the elimination process? You would be surprised how many problems with these Dotmations can be traced to power supplies or IO boards.

Dale

[KirkLasVegas]

Dale is correct....
And another note....
These displays are FRAGILE...I mean REALLY fragile
Treat it gently, leave it alone if you can.
If you need to go into it, place it facedown on a SOFT towel.
Suspect the top box power supply....


Kirk

[mgmgb19]

Thanks Kirk and Dale,
I'm in automotive. I only have this one machine so no spare parts to try. I will however try to re-install the upper power supply. I hope that's the board I have. Would any one have a pic of what that upper power supply looks like.

Thanks,

Jim

[mgmgb19]

put in second power supply to try ...no better should I be looking for a display and is there anyone that repairs the dot matrix boards. Again I have a 1995 Williams Jackpot Party . And the Dot Matrix Display is only half lit and jumps around. I will try anything within reason.

Jim

[rokgpsman]

put in second power supply to try ...no better should I be looking for a display and is there anyone that repairs the dot matrix boards. Again I have a 1995 Williams Jackpot Party . And the Dot Matrix Display is only half lit and jumps around. I will try anything within reason.

Jim

  I have a williams model 400 jackpot party dot mation slot. The dislay is having problems. It was hit with 220 volts. I have repaced the upper power supply.  Are all the displays for the dot mation boards the same? And if so the controller board next to the upper power supply must be  specific to each game...

Jim

I saw your other post in a different thread from back in Feb about the problem (copied here for everyone's better understanding of your machine's problem). Are you saying that the entire machine was plugged into 220 volts instead of 115 volts, or that just the dot matrix display was connected to 220 volts? (how would that happen??; was the machine located in an area outside the US where 220 volt is the standard elec supply?).  In the original configuration from the Williams factory the upper power supply gets AC power from a connector on the lower power supply, this is 115 volts for US models. The upper power supply then simply changes the AC power to 12vdc for the dot matrix controller board and the dot matrix driver board. That's why a popular mod is to connect a lower cost 12vdc power supply in place of the original upper power supply when it fails. 12vdc is all that's needed up there.

Does the machine play ok other than the dot matrix display? On power-up does it give the single 'bong' sound indicating a good self-test? If that's all ok and you believe that the only problem is with the dot matrix display then here's my advice:

If you have replaced the dot matrix power supply & have made sure the 2 ribbon cables/connectors are ok then I would think the problem could be:

1) the dot matrix controller board (the board mounted to the left of the original dotmation power supply inside the metal dotmation box)

OR

2) the large dot matrix driver board mounted on the rear of the dot matrix glass display

OR

3) the dot matrix glass display itself.

Without substituting parts I don't know of a way to find which part is bad. Other people that have had a situation like yours where they did not have parts to sub in for troubleshooting have shipped their parts out to have someone else check them in their machine. That might be a good option for you. I could do that for you (no charge of course, just take care of the shipping) if you don't find a better answer. Perhaps someone here with more experience than myself will have a better suggestion, so stay tuned.

Your other questions:

Yes, the dot matrix displays on all the Williams dotmation slot machines are all the same, so if you find one for sale it should work in your machine just fine. There may be minor differences in the display driver board that the company made over time for improvements but all should work. Be aware that after years of use many of the used dot matrix displays will have a ghost image that is seen when the display is powered off, sort of like the image burn seen on old crt displays. It doesn't affect game play and usually isn't visible when the machine is on. There is a part number for the dot matrix display assembly (actual glass display and driver board), check yours, should be something like 5901-001023-00.

The dot matrix controller board next to the power supply is the same in all dotmation machines except for the specific game software in eproms U3 and U4 (the 'game chips'). The system software in eprom U10 had various improvements over time, but it should work in all machines so you don't have to worry about it. I think the last version was around ver 5.13 or 5.14. (the only exception I know of was that the Williams Monopoly dotmation game used a special dot matrix controller board, but hardly anyone/no one has one of these models). Part number for the dot matrix controller board is A-000541-01.

You can sometimes find the entire dotmation assembly (metal box with all the dotmation parts) for sale. If you do this then you'll just need to replace the 2 game chips at U3 and U4 on the dot controller board with your own game chips.

There is a manual with parts listing on this website for your machine. You can download it at:

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=943


Below is a picture from this website (one of Clay's I believe) that shows the parts inside the dot matrix metal box. Is this a picture of what you asked to see? Click on the photo or the link under it to enlarge. Ignore the "modified connector" in the picture, that is a mod your machine may not have.

[dale]

I have an extra Dot matrix without the Dot Controller Board and Upper power supply in the box. If you are interested, LMK.

Dale

[mgmgb19]

Rokgpsman ....... thanks for getting back to me. First off the machine was in contact with 220 through a short in my home wiring. A neutral came in contact with a power wire in a ceiling fan ( a freak problem ) took out my range, microwave, dishwasher, garage opener and several small appliances not to mention my Jack Pot party display. You have made this very easy to understand, with steps to try.
 

Dale .....  Please e-mail me with the terms of the Dot Matrix display...jimthorman19@gmail.com

[rokgpsman]

Rokgpsman ....... thanks for getting back to me. First off the machine was in contact with 220 through a short in my home wiring. A neutral came in contact with a power wire in a ceiling fan ( a freak problem ) took out my range, microwave, dishwasher, garage opener and several small appliances not to mention my Jack Pot party display. You have made this very easy to understand, with steps to try.
 

Dale .....  Please e-mail me with the terms of the Dot Matrix display...jimthorman19@gmail.com

Wow, that is a strange thing to have happen! Would have hoped the circuit breaker on that line would trip to prevent further damage. Reminds me of times when lightning strikes a home or aircraft and gets into the electrical wiring. I don't want to be negative, but with all the electrical devices you had problems with don't be surprised if there could be additional faults with your slot machine. There are 2 main boards in the card cage, called the cpu board and the I/O board. They control most of the machine's operation. There is also a lower power supply unit (the power switch is mounted on the front of it).

On the front edge of the I/O board are 5 LED's (red lites) in a group. With the machine powered-up these lites should be lit. You may want to get a voltmeter and check the voltages that the lower power supply makes, to ensure you don't have something wrong that will damage other parts as you put them into the machine. Feel free to post questions here as you investigate things. With the typical power supply problems some of the voltages go to zero, so even though the machine does not work there is no damage being done to other parts. But what happened to your machine is not typical - just about anything could be possible, including some of the voltages being much higher than they should be, such as +5vdc being +20vdc. (just an example).

Hopefully the only problem is the dotmation display, but that same 220v over-voltage that went to it also went to the lower power supply and possibly from there to other things. Does the machine work ok other than the dotmation display?

Fingers crossed on this...


Below is a picture of the lower power supply (borrowed from another troubleshooting discussion on this website). The power supply in the picture has many of the cables disconnected, the one connector still connected shows what voltage you should have on each wire. At the extreme right is the black power input connector, your power cord will need to be connected here, plus the machine power switched on, to check these voltages.

[Mr. Dinoman]

Hello,
Thought I would jump in here...I do a lot of pinball repairs that use DMD displays (the same as what the Willliams uses and some of different sizes)....If the display image is dancing or flickering around (maybe you could post a video) it usually means the display is "Gas out" or "near gassed out" and needs to be replaced...Verify you have 12vdc getting to the DMD...If you do, my best guess is the display is bad...Getting a new one is very difficalt-almost impossible and getting a used one you take the chance of burned spots or lines missing...Hopefully you can find one in good shape-If you do, let me know as I am looking for a good deal on a very good condition one for a pinball machine that uses the same DMD...Hope this helps...

UPDATED:
I just did some research and was reading that a Williams DMD uses 120vdc as the driver voltage and a Pinball DMD uses 60vdc...Can anyone verify that?...I believe they both use 12vdc for the display board...
Jimmy

[rokgpsman]

Jimmy,

Have any manufacturers come out with LCD display assemblies that will substitute for any of these dot matrix displays? There were so many devices that used the dot matrix displays in the late 1980's and throughout the 1990's that you'd think some company worldwide would see this as an opportunity.

[Mr. Dinoman]

I know there is no aftermarket 196x64 DMD for pinball machines...Re-read my last post as I updated it...I tried a Williams DMD once before and it sorta worked-I thought it was bad, but I think there was voltage difference...Sounds like you will have to get a used one....
Jimmy

[rokgpsman]

I don't know about pinball machines but on the Williams slot machines that use this DMD there is only the 12vdc voltage going to the DMD driver board attached to the back of the DMD itself. That's the only power connection, the other cable is a data ribbon for the graphic image info.

Probably the DMD driver board has circuitry that increases the 12vdc to the higher voltage needed to operate the display. Since it is a gas discharge display I'd think the voltage would have to be around 180vdc or higher on the actual elements so the gas would ionize (often done as equal but opposite voltages, such as -90vdc and +90 vdc across the element), but I haven't seen schematics so can't say for sure. There is a transformer on the back of the display driver board, so it appears they do increase the 12vdc to something higher. I think in the slot machine world this display is often replaced as an assembly along with its driver board as this is easier. Maybe on a pinball machine the higher voltage is produced in a different way.

Have you compared the actual part number etched on the Williams pinball DMD glass display part to the part number for the one used in the Williams slot machine? It would make sense for the company to use the same display, save on manufacturing costs.

[Mr. Dinoman]

NO I don't have the Williams slot schematics to verify...I know they is only the 12vcd coming into the board...Maybe I did not make myself clear...There is step-up electronics to increase the voltage for the gas tube like you said...I do believe the actual glass display is the same...Having said all that, it still is very hard to find new or good replacement displays for the 196x64 DMD...Not many pinball machines used that size...Mostly 128x32 and they do make LED replacements for those...Even 128x16, but those are hard to find also...I don't repair them so I really have not looked into the voltage differences till now...
Jimmy

[rokgpsman]

How do those LED replacement displays compare to the original display, are they as bright and the graphics looks good? I'm curious about them. I suppose someone with a DMD failure doesn't have a lot of choice and has to use the LED version, but maybe it is seen as an improvement. And hopefully there will be a LED version for the larger displays, but if they were going to do it you'd think it would already be done.

What you said about the pinball display using 60vdc as the driver voltage did confuse me, is this the voltage going to the glass display itself or to its driver board?

Thanks!

[Mr. Dinoman]

The voltage is going to the glass...Power to the display board is 12vdc and is increased to +/- 60vdc to power the plasma...I just ordered the LED (128x16) from Germany for my Star Trek 25th anny pinball machine and have not received it yet so I cant tell you how they really look...LED scoring displays look awesome, but as far as the DMD replacement, I will see...

[rokgpsman]

These LED replacement displays are good news, hopefully they will greatly reduce the display failures and allow power supplies to run cooler, even be down-sized in power requirements. Since tv's are now using LED technology I'd have to guess they are fast enough for the graphics on pinball & slot machines. When LCD's first appeared there was a latency problem, the displays were slower than desired, worked fine for displays that didn't change quickly, like a clock or speedometer, but not as good on gaming devices. I hated them on meters due to their slow response, but eventually things got better.

Good luck with your new display!

[knagl]

I just did some research and was reading that a Williams DMD uses 120vdc as the driver voltage and a Pinball DMD uses 60vdc...

For whatever it's worth, I believe the Dotmation DMDs on the Dotmation slots were actually the same DMDs used on SEGA pinball machines, and not the same ones used on Bally/WMS pinball games.  As such, it would certainly be possible that the specs aren't the same between WMS pinball and slots.

[Mr. Dinoman]

So far I believe that the DMD glass is the same, but not the driver board...So in theory, someone would just have to change the driver board...At the time I tried using a Williams slot DMD, I did not know this and it did have some issues...Unfortunetly I don't have a complete Williams DMD with driver to test...If someone has one that is sorta working, I would be will to investigate the difference to see...I do have a Pinball machine using the 196x64 DMD I could try it one and play with it...
Jimmy

[rokgpsman]

For whatever it's worth, I believe the Dotmation DMDs on the Dotmation slots were actually the same DMDs used on SEGA pinball machines, and not the same ones used on Bally/WMS pinball games.  As such, it would certainly be possible that the specs aren't the same between WMS pinball and slots.

That's interesting, maybe these displays could be obtained from parted-out Sega pinball machines. Sadly, there may be enough WMS dotmation slot machines being taken apart due to being non-working that there will be displays available from them. Or the demand for the displays will decrease as there are less of the dotmation machines being kept running. Many hobbyists seem to be moving toward the newer, fancier slot platforms. 

[mgmgb19]

Thanks to all that helped with my 1995 Jackpot Party dot matrix. I installed the glass Dale sent me and that fixed it. You have all been great about sharing your wealth of knowledge.

[slotsteve]

those display are still around  but very dear
 SEGA 192 x 64 Display For Maverick, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, Baywatch, Batman Forever $505.00 (Each)
they are also used on a few arcade games

[rokgpsman]

Thanks to all that helped with my 1995 Jackpot Party dot matrix. I installed the glass Dale sent me and that fixed it. You have all been great about sharing your wealth of knowledge.

That's great it is working again. Just to clarify, you replaced the glass display & the driver board attached to the back of the glass right? (not just the glass display itself)?