Handle Reel Bundle Locking Up Help Please

[RiseLikeRa]

All good and non problematic must come to an end.  My custom 1090 (pic in profile) has an issue with the handle not tripping the reel bundle.  The hadle gets stuck at near the downward most point of its travel.  I tried to isolate the problem by removing the reel mech and working the hadle manaully.  30 pulls with no malfunction in the handle box.  When I reiinserted the reel mech, first pull got stuck.  I pulled out the trusty Fey service manual and learned that there is an adjustment on the trip lever pawl stop and the nuts on the drive shaft (No fresh remarks).  Both were slightly adjusted but the problem still persists.  I do not want to force anything.  I worked the reel mech outside of the cabinet as much as my hand could stand (There ought to be a tool for that) and the reeel failed to trip many times.  I just cant see what is causing the problem.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Pictures included of the right side of my reel mech.

Thanks

[Amachanic]

Sounds like the seal is bad inside the tan air cylinder. Remove the 4 screws and the e-clip & pin.. Pull the piston out of the cylinder. My guess is that the black cup seal has gotten sticky and causing your problem. Just remove it and clean any of the sticky tar from inside the cylinder and off the piston. There is no factory or after market part available. Just apply a very light amount of grease to the piston & insides of the air cylinder and reassemble. Make sure the small air hole is open in the bottom of the cylinder. Don't over grease or you can end up with a mess. Be careful of the contact at the linkage end as not to damage them. Take pictures, they make a great insurance policy for where things go or were. Can't tell you how many times I've used them.

Gary

[RiseLikeRa]

Gary:

Thanksso much for the reply.  I have been inside one of these cylinders MANY years ago.  I simply forgot what I did.  Should I simply remove the rubber from the cylinder.  Also is the contact that you are refering to the dashpot switch at the back of the cylinder?

Ra

[Amachanic]

Yes to both questions.. 

[RiseLikeRa]

Thanks, thanks.   I will keep you posted on my developments.

Ra

[Amachanic]

It really simple to built a tool to cycle the reels. I took a piece of flat bar steel 1/4" and drill a hole to fit over the bearing on the 1/2 gear on the side. Then drilled a second hole so I could insert a pin ( or a bolt as on mine ) into the hole on the same 1/2 gear. Then I bent the steel to give me clearance on the air cylinder. See pics.. Second way is very simple, find a bolt to fit the 1/2 gears hole. Not put the bolt in the hole and find a long screw driver, or something similar and put it between the bolt and bearing and pull to cycle the reels.

Gary

[RiseLikeRa]

Gary: 

Where are all of the other slot wizards?  Just you and I here I guess.  Well,  I followed your instructions and removed the plastic tube.  No rubber or gunk inside at all.  Still I cleaned and oiled the tube and replaced it on the reel mach.  For some unexplained reason the handle is working properly now.  I was intrigued by your home made tool so I went out to my VERY cold garage and got to work.  My tool is not as finished looking as yours but it definately does the trick.  Picture below.  Thank you so much.  If it acts up again, since I dont know what I fixed, I will give you a holler. 

Stay well
Ra

[ramegoom]

Looking at your image of the reels, it looks like the two sector gears are out of alignment. I have several E2000 machines, which are similar, and the gears are all within one half-tooth of the corresponding gear. You might want to look at that.

[RiseLikeRa]

Rame:

Thanks fso much or the reply.  That is a great observation.  It world seem that if they are out of line that WOULD cause the problem I have been experiencing.  The gears seem to be slightly offset from one another and the teeth do not contact each other fully.  My next question would be how in the world do you adjust this allignment?  Wow.

Ra

[ramegoom]

There's a snap ring on the opposite side of the sector on the left. You remove the snap ring, slide the sector out. While you have it out, you would probably want to clean the nylite bushing, re-grease it.

Explaining this from memory, but once you get it apart, it's pretty straight-forward.

EDIT: it could be that the plastic bushings are shot. The Nylite bushing is a special one because of the alignment tab on it, but I have found "generic" bushings on-line that work OK. The ID-OD is the main concern. The bushing has a flange on one side, acts as a thrust bushing as well.

[Amachanic]

EDIT: it could be that the plastic bushings are shot. The Nylite bushing is a special one because of the alignment tab on it, but I have found "generic" bushings on-line that work OK. The ID-OD is the main concern. The bushing has a flange on one side, acts as a thrust bushing as well.

Would you be willing to share the information on the replacement bushing?

Thanks Gary

[ramegoom]

Yeah, I will dig it up. I found a company who sells the bushing, and have used a few of them. I'm out of the US right now, will be returning next week, and I'll find that source and post it here.

In the meantime, if you need that U cup seal, I found a source (McMaster Carr) for a seal that will work properly with a slight modification:
http://www.ramegoom.com/john/E2000/Bally%20Piston%20Cup%20Replacement.pdf

Fits perfectly once you chop the inside out. And the piston will then work properly.

[RiseLikeRa]

Rame:

Thank you I ordered 5 cups.  All take a look at my plastic bushing and perhaps elongated plate that connects to the reel frame.  I real reel mess.  lol.

[ramegoom]

Yep, looks like bushing time. The Nyliner bushing is a split style bushing that has oil grooves which maintain the lubricant. The original bushing has a locking tab on the flange part that keeps the bushing from rotating in its bore. That feature really doesn't seem to matter though, but it's important to have the correct size, and greased up as well. I will find my source for that bushing, and post it next week.

[RiseLikeRa]

I eagerly await your return.  My friend thought that the flange that the plastic bushing fits into may be elongated.  I really cant tell if its out of round.  Thanks for all of your advice thus far.  Travel safely.

Ra

[ramegoom]

If the flange is worn to an out-of-round position (which it probably has, since the gear teeth engagement slipped), you might have to replace that part - not sure where you'd find it -  or possibly, send it to a machine shop where they can sleeve it. If you get to that, it might be possible to press an oilite bushing into the newly-bored hole, reducing the need for the Nylite bushing. Just a thought.

EDIT: Looking closely at your part, you might be right about the egg-shaped hole. Find someone with a lathe, bore the part out so you can use a bronze or oilite bushing, and look to McMaster Carr for a suitable part. Probably sounds more complicated than it really is, but once you find a machinist to do the project, it'll work like new.

[Amachanic]

EDIT: Looking closely at your part, you might be right about the egg-shaped hole. Find someone with a lathe, bore the part out so you can use a bronze or oilite bushing, and look to McMaster Carr for a suitable part. Probably sounds more complicated than it really is, but once you find a machinist to do the project, it'll work like new.

I don't think it's that important if it worn a bit. This isn't like building a cars motor. I would get the new bushing to see how it fits first. If its a little loose, you could away use an epoxy to help hold the bushing in place. Something like a JB Weld. Heck installing the nylon bushing and some grease would keep it working for years again. Once again this is just my opinion, and what I would do.

Gary

[OldReno]

Also, you can turn it 60 degrees to put the wear spot in a different position.  the 3 screw holes should still match up if you turn the assembly.  I agree with Gary, it should work ok.

[ramegoom]

Good idea indexing the hub away from the worn spot. With a new bushing, probably will last. The main thing is that you don't have the gear teeth pull away and slip out of position.

How about the shaft? Is it worn out, or still good to go? Seems the softer of the two metallic parts took a hit.

[RiseLikeRa]

Thank you all.  As usual Old Reno has a great idea.  When I took a look at the flange closely it looked to my old eyes that the bottom portion was slightly elongated.  That is probably where ALL,  or at least most, of the pressure rests when the handle is pulled.  After a careful reading of all of your suggestions I took a closer look at the flange that is welded to the flat plate that is screwed with 3 small screws,  to the side of the reel cage (need the right word).  Well I now believe that I was right AND wrong.  It seems that because the plastic bushing had failed the extra pressure on the bottom part of the flange has caused it to separate from the mounting plate weld ever so slightly on one side only.  Look from left to right at the picture.  Your thoughts?  So perhaps what I was noticing was that the flange stuck out at an angle that was not perpendicular  to the reel cage.   I hope that I am clear.  Are you picking up what I am putting down?

Believe it or not, a friend of mine says that he does not have the nylon bushing but he may have the flange and the mounting plate new old stock.  If he can find it that is another story.  Anyway my machine is down for the count right now and I am bummed out.

In struggle
Ra

[ramegoom]

That is one sloppy weld. Looks like it never penetrated into the sleeve. amateur welder got his hands on it back then. 

Bring it to an auto repair shop. They can fixture it so it's straight, then mig-weld a couple of spots on it, should be good to go.

[RiseLikeRa]

That is one sloppy weld. Looks like it never penetrated into the sleeve.

That is exactly what I thought when I saw it!   I am hoping that someone out there has an old parts reel mech that I can get the parts from.  I dont know if the gears or flange sizes differ?

Ra

[ramegoom]

It should be a simple 5-minute procedure to weld it. Just be sure it's perpendicular to the plate, and put in 5 or 6 tack welds rather than welding the whole circumference. Too much heat will warp the ID of the hole, and you don't want to go there.

Anyone who can weld with a TIG or wirefeed will be able to fix it. Maybe a muffler shop?

[RiseLikeRa]

Good idea with the muffle shop.  I too have concerns that if welded it would not be exactly perpendicular.  Then I would be back in the same fix that I was before.  My friend who has some parts also has the flu.  I told him to take a look when he feels better.  I dont want him to have a relaspe looking through a cold shed because of my reels AND I dont want to catch his cooties when I go to pick up the part.  Now I am cleaning the 30 year old grease off of the gears and such.  Boy does that old stuff get hard!  I am using PB Blaster to help my cause a little bit.  What type of grease is normally used to put back inside these EM's?  I really enjoy learning about these games.  This list is a God send.  Never in a million years would I have thought a little plastic bushing would have caused such a problem.  I didnt even know it was there.  One day I hope to be able to REALLY work on these beautiful machines like some of the pros on this forum.

Ra

[ramegoom]

I bought surplus, 20 of the E2000 machines, that were in storage for many years. and found some odd problems. First, all of the grease was rock-hard, used paint thinner to loosen it. I am using black lithium grease for anything needing it, and machine oil for everything else. The moving parts on the reel, all of them, are critical to the machine working properly. And I also found an odd genetic problem with the power supplies; several of the big caps were under the rated value and most of the terminal headers had cold solder joints. A few had problems where the tin plating separated from the terminal, causing the cold connection. I am going to clone the power supplies and replace them all, since I have serious doubt about their continued functionality.