PE+ CRT to LCD conversion

[TZtech]

Hi Guys

Yes we have established that the color signals are inverted - This can be fixed there was a mod for this on the old site and I have seen a small PCB on some modified made in china CGA monitors I have seen in the field on PE+ machines. What I would like to know is if the horizontal and vertical synchs will be correctly decoded by this board. Like Rocket I am also curious to see what the inverted colour image looks like.

SB - The problem I see on your pinout for the converter board is that it has only one synch signal input. The PE+ has seperate vertical and horizontal synch outputs.
If you have a look at the converter HAPP sells you will see there are options for both modes of operation - http://www.happ.com/monitors/49272700.htm

There are plenty on Ebay that look similar to yours but no manuals for dowload - If you did get a manual have a look if it supports dual synch.

Ian

[knagl]

Mark-

You have a GBS-8220.  From earlier in the thread, I bought the same thing.

The PE+ uses separate horizontal and vertical sync.  The GBS-8220 needs composite sync (as best as I was able to figure out).  I started to look into how to convert H+V to Composite, and that's about as far as I got when I was trying to make mine work.

I did eventually find a decent .pdf manual for the GBS-8220 (every other "manual" out there was only one or two pages).  I'll dig it up and get it to you as soon as I can find it -- it really helped to identify what each pin on the GBS-8220 was for, and what types of inputs are accepted where on the card.

Learn from one mistake I made with the thing.  It requires really beefy power -- 5 volts, 2 amps, if memory serves correctly.  Most wall wart transformers don't put out enough amperage -- it may appear to work, but under load (with a good video signal), it will flake out on you.  Once I figured that out, when I was testing, I wound up using a Mikohn power supply as it pumps out the right voltage with plenty of amperage to go with it.


I originally tried the smaller 8-pin connector (labeled RGBS) and didn't get far -- again, I need to find the manual, but I think that only those big pins (the ones you highlighted) are designed to accept CGA.  (Edit: It looks like from the black and white image below that you can give CGA to the 8-pin -- I also found the following:

Red Video to Red Wire/P11 (R)
Green Video to Green Wire/P11 (G)
Blue Video to Blue Wire/P11 (B)
H. Sync to Gray Wire/P11 (S)
V. Sync to Yellow Wire/P11 (VS)
Ground Ref to Black Wire/P11 (GND)
Connect the 8-pin (6 wires) RGB cable to P11 on the GBS-8220 converter PCB. )






You might be interested in the thread I started on a different site -- it didn't get me too far, but provides a little information.  I remember (from reading that thread) that the .pdf documentation does list the "S" on the 8-pin connector as shield, not sync, so don't use the 8-pin connector (you weren't planning to anyway):

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=113853  (There are two pages of information there -- look for the little "page 2" navigation in the lower right corner of the last post.)



(Click to enlarge and clear up the muddy text.)



More reading: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=98692.0

[stayouttadabunker]

I'm getting somewhere!  :136-I'm getting somewhere with this!!! lololo

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/7AsEvNSCpj4&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/7AsEvNSCpj4&rel=0</a>

[TZtech]

Kevin

Nice to hear from somebody that has tried to get these working. Further checking on the various EBAY links led me to this site - http://www.jammaboards.com/store/cga/ega/yuv-to-vga-converter-pcb-gbs-8220/prod_291.html.
There are links on that page to the manual in PDF as well as a setup instruction including how to connect Seperate Synchs

Going back in this thread to the post Kevin is referring to it would seem this model is an upgrade to the one that Happ sells at $60 cheaper and its shipped from the US

SB - You have all the info now- We want pictures 

Edit - Ok you beat me to it and went one better - Video. The colours are not right as expected and the siganl loss is I suspect is due to the Synch issue but its looking promising - Great Work
Ian

[stayouttadabunker]

Arghhhhh!!!  The Sync sucks  on this sucking thing!!!     
The picture is jumping around like Mexican beans.
It doesn't know left from right or up and down...blah!!!!!
I need a dual-sync composite composer compacter! Craps!

Think I'll save this board for an old cherry master board.
I give up! It's Friday! I'm going home!
I'll get back on it another blue moon!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/nPY5-wlayAc&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/nPY5-wlayAc&rel=0</a>

[TZtech]

Come on SB - You can do it 

P10 is RGBHV and Kevins info suggests that that connector is CGA so pretty sure that will do the trick

Looking at the schemtic for the colour outputs - The only part after the Colour Attribute Prom (CAP) is a 74Hc574. This is a Octal D type Flip Flop with non inverting outputs.
If you replace this with a 74HV534 which is the same thing but with inverting outputs the colour problem should be sorted (Thats my theory anyway - Going through my old digital electronics handbook I am shocked at how little I remember of this stuff).

Ian

[stayouttadabunker]

It's Friday! You're just not going to let get outta here are ya?    

Just kidding...I'll look at lot more into this next week.
It looks like a fun project and thank you so much for looking into the schematics for us TZ!
You're a lot more technical than I am on this stuff which I love learning everyday!
I sure wish I would have taken some electronics classes in school instead of chasing women...lol
nah! I take that back....!!!  

Knagl's all over the other website asking questions and one answer
he got was to twist the two separate H and V sync wires together and
use the 5-pin R,G,B, Gnd, and single S pin on the board he has like mine.
I didn't try that.

[knagl]

Well hey now, you got something!  All I could get was a tiny blip of an image for a fraction of a second -- you could clearly see cards in your test.

Do you have the 8-pin connector that plugs into P11?  I just noticed something in the instructions that I just found:

Red Video to Red Wire/P11 (R)
Green Video to Green Wire/P11 (G)
Blue Video to Blue Wire/P11 (B)
H. Sync to Gray Wire/P11 (S)
V. Sync to Yellow Wire/P11 (VS)
Ground Ref to Black Wire/P11 (GND)
Connect the 8-pin (6 wires) RGB cable to P11 on the GBS-8220 converter PCB.

I'm positive that when I tested, I had H Sync attached to HS, not S.  Perhaps it's worth trying the way they mention, using that P11 connector?

[stayouttadabunker]

Well hey now, you got something!  All I could get was a tiny blip of an image for a fraction of a second -- you could clearly see cards in your test.

Do you have the 8-pin connector that plugs into P11?  I just noticed something in the instructions that I just found:

Red Video to Red Wire/P11 (R)
Green Video to Green Wire/P11 (G)
Blue Video to Blue Wire/P11 (B)
H. Sync to Gray Wire/P11 (S)
V. Sync to Yellow Wire/P11 (VS)
Ground Ref to Black Wire/P11 (GND)
Connect the 8-pin (6 wires) RGB cable to P11 on the GBS-8220 converter PCB.

I'm positive that when I tested, I had H Sync attached to HS, not S.  Perhaps it's worth trying the way they mention, using that P11 connector?

Yeah knagl!
I was using the 8-pin [P11] connector.
I didn't have the 5-pin RGB connector really so I went the other route.
The picture was jumping all over the place though.
Did you ever try twisting the two separate  H & V sync wires together and
connecting them to the the composite "S" pin on the P3 connector like the guys said on KLOV?
Maybe that'll stop the Jumping Beans?

I'd still like to try the RBGHV serial port ( P10) but I don't know the pin outs of that port on the board.
The traces are hidden underneath the serial port housing itself.

[TZtech]

Hello Guys

Found another manual here - http://www.converters.tv/products/cga_to_vga/657.html. I suspect that your card is a clone of this product (Do the chinese clone chinese products  )

It specifically states that it support CGA Separate Sync (15khz).

Ian

[stayouttadabunker]

Which one of these do you think we should try TZ?
I found your link and this pin-outs of the input ports on the board?
If I use the 8-pin header, which wire should the "shield" wire (gray) connect to on the PE+?>>>

[TZtech]

SB

I would go with P11 as Kevin did - What interesting on this one is this "Display on the monitor is: “No signal� – Press “SW� to switch input port." Which suggests that you have to select which of the inputs your are using.

Ian

[knagl]

Did you ever try twisting the two separate  H & V sync wires together and
connecting them to the the composite "S" pin on the P3 connector like the guys said on KLOV?

I tried but got nothing, but then again I never even got as close as you did in your first video, so don't let my experience stop you from trying that.

For kicks, did you try connecting the HSync from the PE+ to the "S" (instead of HS) on the 8-pin connector?  I'm guessing that perhaps was a typo in those directions I found, but it's worth a shot.

The manual that Ian found (http://www.converters.tv/manuals/rgb_-_cga_ega_hd_to_vga_converter_657_512.pdf ) is, I'm pretty sure, the "better" manual that I have saved on my computer at home.  I'm attaching it to this post, too, just in case that site ever goes away.


The board auto-searches for a signal whenever it's powered on, so you can simply cycle the power to get it to look for a new video signal (regardless of which port it's plugged into).  I think if you press and hold the down switch for a few seconds it forces it to scan for signals again, but power cycling seemed to be more reliable for me (it seemed to lock up a lot, requiring a power cycle anyway).  The left "SW" is supposed to make it switch between inputs.

[stayouttadabunker]

Sorry for the delay, I got burned out a bit mentally and went home.
It's frustrating sometimes when it doesn't go your way but after dinner,
a few hrs rest, and watching stupid tv shows, I've come to a conclusion over what happened today.

I played a lot with different cabling configurations and
actually changed the "shield" housing pin location from the #4 to the #5 position
but I could never get really any better results other than the short videos I've pasted below.
Pulling out the Horizontal pin and just touching it at various un-timed intervals gave
me remarkably better signals sometimes as I was toying with the syncing timing points.
Basically it's like playing with a car's distributor cap without
a timing gun light pointed at the flywheel markings...

I'm leaning very much towards TZ Tech's suggestion of replacing the
Octal D type Flip Flop with a 74HV534 chip on one of my working PE+ boards.
Whether or not I can locate this chip is another small undertaking I'm sure
but apparently it doesn't invert the signals like the 74Hc574 chip.

If I do happen to locate this chip, I will take out the 74Hc574 chip and
install in a socket at that location and throw in a install a 74HV534 chip.
Then after that, I will try the GBS-8220 board again and see if I can get better
and more stable video sync and color results.

The other option is to win the lottery and sink in and purchase a
Ceronix CPA3004 complete with touchscreen panel !!! ( never in my lifetime...lol)

Let me throw a question out there into the mix>>>

We know the signal gets flip flopped after leaving the 74Hc574 chip
then gets thrown out onto the harness right?
Does the board on the CRT invert the signal back and then process it into the picture tube?
Maybe we can intercept that re-inverted signal back into the GBS-8220 board?

While we're mulling that question over in our minds -
check out what we're facing at the moment...lol
This is as far as I got onto an LCD monitor before I ran  out the door for the weekend! >>>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rn-PJAI9sSc&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Rn-PJAI9sSc&rel=0</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/4jOSE2iuX6w&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/4jOSE2iuX6w&rel=0</a>

[knagl]

K+ for your efforts.  Don't give up!  You've already gotten further than I did!   

[TZtech]

Hello SB

The Octal flip flop wont take care of the synch Issue -  Its only my theoretical fix for inverting the colours. It is possible that the Synchs are also inverted although the card should auto adjust to this. You have a scope right - have a look at whats happening on the two Synchs and what the frequencies are. At least then you know that its throwing out synch timings that the card can understand.

Ian

[dougskenya]

 :279- :97-Hello new life team and members,,,,,,,thanks alot for assigning me a membership in the forum,thanks on the progress regarding the CRT TO LCD UPGRADE  on the Player edge plus as we call it in KENYA..HAS anyone succeeded on the project*conversion//////or is there anyone with the information as to where i can buy or source the conversion kits and wont mind chinese stuff as long a it workssssss...got alot of DEAD IGT PE + POKERS in east africa..used some chinese monitors which comes with video inversion card but i think an upgrade should be the way forward .......kindly help
tech dougs 

[stayouttadabunker]

Hi Doug! Welcome to New Life Games!
Unfortunately I couldn't get it to work correctly.
I heard of some guys down in South America that maybe got some video converter
to work with an LCD screen for the PE+, but I cannot verify that.

If you look back into the previous posts - you can see what I tried to do but
there was a lot of problems in the way the screen was coming up.

The only solution for now is to get a used one from ebay or go all out and
spend the big bucks on brand new ones from places like Suzo-Happ Controls.
The part number is: 49-11326-00
Here's the link to it. >>>

http://www.happcontrols.com/images/pdf/ceronix_brochure.pdf

Below is the info on it I clipped from the brochure.
Click on picture to enlarge...>>>





 

[dougskenya]

 

Thanks STAY on a warm welcome,,,,soo bad bad that your conversion could nt work,been following the postings throughout infact NLG is almost becoming an addiction..got several catalogues from SUZO and i swear not so many people are ready to spend all that MONIES.WILL try the e bays for a second hand but bearing in mind the technology was born just the other day this is a mountain to climb.......will keep in touch Chao!!!!!!!!!!

  :254-TECH DOUGS

[TZtech]

Hello Doug

Welcome to NLG. Nice to see another tech from Africa here. Maybe consider Ceronix CRT instead. I paid +/- $250 from Suzo Happ a year or two ago. Contact Ceronix I am sure they have excess CRT that they will be happy to get rid off. I have ordered a very large order from them while I was stil in Tanzania and recieved the shipment without any problems - Its the best CRT you will get and there is plenty of service info available.

Ian

[knagl]

I heard of some guys down in South America that maybe got some video converter
to work with an LCD screen for the PE+, but I cannot verify that.

Ian posted this link a while ago:

http://www.freewebs.com/ertech-gaming/productos.htm


If you click on the second one from the top-left, "DUPLICADORA VGA", it shows you this:





dougskenya: Welcome to the NLG website!  If you have success contacting ERTECH Gaming, there are many members of this website who would also like to purchase their converter board.

[nousmeme]

Hello,

If you want to replace a CRT by a LCD on a PE+, I can give you all documents to do that.
I found how to do that in the old website
Let me know

Have a great day

[dougskenya]

DEAR NOU

  :244-HOPE HAD enjoyous christmas season,,,,,,,,Congratulations on a job weelll done.am sure this will make us move so many miles ahead,Am still pushing the ertech gaming(South america) for the
supply of the inversion cards...have not gotten a response of late but i suspect the xmas holidays were the cause=they only hinted on the cost as US$95 each.

Please ADVICE,,,,,INFORM ME on the PE plus UPGRADE..i will be glad to receive the papers i will receive them with two hands.

REGARDS DOUGS

[stayouttadabunker]

nousmeme,
I am very excited that you were able to do an LCD conversion for the PE+.  
Can you send me the documentation on how this is done?
I was close but did not succeed...    
I ran into major problems with the sync... 

[jay]

By all means - many of us are interested.

Please post - you can attach 2 files to each post or you can zip them up and just post one zip file.

Mucho appreciated !