IGT Big Bertha reel err 41

[Goldfinger]

I have a big Bertha Triple cherry machine (500lb pain in the rear) any way when I got it they said it worked but when I got it home I don't see how there was no main board in it only the motherboard. I have quite a few pictures to post with this problem so Ill explain what I have done as I go.
1. the first thing I did was get a main board and some chips and put in it. I was pretty excited I thought I was going to see this BIG mother fire off. but no joy
2 so the next thing I did was check all the connections and I mean all of them there is a reel driver board case hanging under the reels and connectors on both sides and 1 end of that, the one on the end is a power for the fan.
more with the next set of pictures

[Goldfinger]

3. then I changed the reels around to see if the 41 err would move, but it stayed put,
4. so I dropped the reel controller box and moved the boards #1 to #3 and #3 to #1  still no joy
more to come with more pictures

[Goldfinger]

5, well none of that seemsd to work so I moved the wire harnesses around 1to 2 and so on
6 as a last ditch I changed out the mother board still no joy also tried a different main boadd too

[Goldfinger]

well I have run out of Ideas so I am bring this problem to greater minds to help solve I been working on this over a month off and on so can any one offer aney Ideas?
thanks
Goldfinger 
will post a couple more pics

[Goldfinger]

a couple more pics

[Goldfinger]

2v more pics forgot to post the reels hehe

[jay]

Well - a 41 is a reel tilt. First Reel. (42 is second, 43 third).

Until you clear this error the 41 may not move. I once had a real bi**h of a time getting this error to clear on one of my machines.

Since this is a new-2-you machine and it sounds like its never worked the first thing you should check is to see if the reels are stiff when you put the power on.
When the power is off they should be loose and free flowing. If they are not stiff then we have other issues to discuss - so post back on this point.

Assuming your reels are stiff.....
First step is to get the S+ manual and follow the steps to clear the 41.
I believe you Open the door, press the white test button then turn the jackpot reset key, and close the door. But its been a while, so again I stress to check the manual.

If the error does not clear the first time - try again.

If the error still does not clear you can run a CLEAR CHIP through the machine. In my case this did NOT fix the problem for me. But it is the recommended procedure.

What did work for me was that I had a 1271 game chip in mine. I changed to an older series 731 chip. This caused the machine to come up with some 62 errors and basically rebuilt the CMOS structure. The game played fine. I then went back to the 1271 and all was good again.

Our buddy stout also documented in technicolor a series of resistors on the S+ MPU board that control the reel mech. In older boards one of these can go and the error will never move (or go away). Until the resistor is replaced. I think there were 5 resistors as technically the S+ can have 5 reels - I have never seen a 5 reel version, seen a couple of Ozz based 4 wheels. Anyways since 2 of the resistors have never been used one can be moved to replace the bad one if you can't get a new resistor easily.

[jay]

Here is the post regarding this topic that I mentioned.
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=4423.0

[knagl]

If the error still does not clear you can run a CLEAR CHIP through the machine. In my case this did NOT fix the problem for me. But it is the recommended procedure.

I seem to remember some other members posting that they solved stubborn reel tilt errors by using a clear chip.  The S+ doesn't have a ton of settings to have to re-do, and while I agree that the clear chips are generally overused, given your troubleshooting thus far (and great stuff, by the way), I think that a clear chip would be a good thing to try at this point.

The good news in what you've posted is that there is no indication that the reel itself is physically bad, as you got the same error no matter which reel was hooked up to the machine (unless all three are bad, but I would consider that to be unlikely).

For clarification, there are two main boards that run the machine (plus, in your case, apparently a separate reel driver board for the oversized reels): the motherboard which is fixed in the machine (it can be removed but is typically left mounted to the bottom of the machine), and the MPU board which is the removable board that is in the silver tray with the black round handle.

That said, which board was missing when you got the machine -- the motherboard, or the MPU board?  I'm guessing that the MPU board is the one that was missing.  Is the replacement a known good board, or one you're assuming is good?  If it's not known for sure to be good, do you have a known good board you can borrow for testing purposes (like from a working S+)?

Do you have a clear chip you can use?

(As a complete aside, is that a Supreme display in the top box?)

[stayouttadabunker]

I know you said that you switched the reels around Bob, but I'm wondering about the
bubbled up look of your reel strips especially on the first two reel baskets...
They don't look like they're on the baskets nice and tight.
Could they be touching the reel glass?

After opening the door, turning reset key, does the 41 clear before you close back the door?
Or does the 41 stay on the display continuously?

Another that causes weird reel error codes to pop up is not related at all to the reels...
I know that doesn't make sense but one time I got rid of the stubborn 41 error
by replacing the coin-in optic boards under the coin comparator?
I am still to this day stumped by that one.
However, that swap solved my 41 error.
 
You only learn these weird offbeat fixes by constantly repairing and tinkering with them.

As far as the bank of resistors on the MPU boards...those 5 resistors are 10K I believe.
Radio Shack still carries them...I don't fool around any more -
I just unsolder all five and replace all five....costs like maybe $2...LOL
The values of the resistors over time, go bad....especially on machines that were heavily used
and "ON" all the time 24/7.
Those resistors "held" the reels in place
("stiff" reels like Jay was talking about)
when nobody was playing the machine.

ADD>>>Knagl likes that supreme display in that top box! hint, hint...LOL

[cp]

My experience with the Mini Bertha reel issues were usually in the reel driver board underneath the reels.  I know you said you switched out boards etc... From what I remember,  there were 3  LARGE resistors   in there... and usually one of them was broken...  maybe try to put a meter on them. 

[Goldfinger]

Great info guys and yes that is a supreme display and it works really good when you power it up (probably worth more than the whole dam machine hehe)
for got to mention that in step 2.5) I did use a clear chip with no luck it cleared and still a reel error.
the MPU board is the one that was missing and I put the replacement one in another S+ and it fired right up.
one of the large resistors on the reel driver board for reel 2 had come loose and I soldered it back in, but did not put a meter on it, I should have gotten pictures but didn't.
it is weird the reel error comes up almost as soon as you power the machine up, when you turn the power on the 3 reels start to move slowly only for a few seconds then the 41 code
the mother board was in the machine when I got it so after I tried every thing else I could think of I changed that also with no luck.
thinking about it the coin in optic was missing and I installed a another one. I only assumed it was good. Installed the entire holster.
I don't have any schematics for the reel driver boards to check them any further and no replacement ones to try out.
I thought about hooking up an entire different reel shelf with reels but don't know where to tin them in probably into the mpu board some where.
Thanks every one for your input and K+ to ya
Bob

[Goldfinger]

I will power up and see if the reels are stiff but I think I checked that and they were but cant remember.
Bob

[stayouttadabunker]

See if you can get it to do another reel error code while the door is open.
When you turn on the power switch, hold the 2nd reel so it cannot do it's "maiden" spin.
You should have an error code "42".
Then it should be a matter of turning the reset key, then closing the door.
If neither of these happen and should you still have the 41 error -
then the reel driver board (under the reels) is next as a suspect.

[knagl]

If all three reels spin a little bit before it gives the reel tilt, then they're all getting power (and would be "stiff").  I guess my next best guess would be something with the reel driver board(s), but that's foreign territory to me.

About all I can do is offer words of encouragement at this point, and say that your troubleshooting (and description on here of what you've done) is simply top notch.  You've done everything I would have done and then some, and posted here in great detail for the members to be able to help you.  I sure hope you get it up and running, otherwise you have a really nice looking large boat anchor on your hands. 

[a69mopar]

did you attempt a reel test?

W

[fanninislots]

Goldfinger,

You have to have SP chip designed to handle the big reels. I have one available

Ben

[Railroad94]

Nice looking machine G.F. It's big but dam would like to have it.

Looks like Ben might have a solution to your problems..... fingers crossed......GOOD LUCK

[Goldfinger]

Well Ive got the chip and PSR and am going to install it now will let you know in a short while yes thanks to Ben
Bob

[Goldfinger]

Well with chips and tools in hands I went to the shop to work on the mini Bertha reel problem. I installed the chip in a 16mhz board and plugged it in to a  S+ machine I had setting on the bench and turned on the power the reels spin backwards in that machine so .I powered down and pulled the mpu board ant took it out to the main shop and plugged it in , and no 41 error but a 65-1 error when I pushed self test button     Nothing happened  it was like the button was broken so I figured it might be that it was a 16Mhz board so I repeated the above process with a 10Mhz board and same thing the self test switch didnt work on the 65-1 error.
So I got my VOM meter and tested the switch it was good so I traced the switch wires all the way down to the mother board and tested the wires they were good to.
next step I changed out the mother board again still no self test switch 3 hours later I am back here typing this out for some help. I no longer have a clue as to what to do.
before when the self test switch didn't work an another machine I had forgotten to install the door optic I checked the optics there all there and the switch has worked in the past few days.

here are a couple of pictures of the mother board installation (could I have wired it up wrong?) it looks like they can only plug in to one place.
Bob

[jay]

65-1, can you turn your Jackpot Reset Key (with the door open). See if the error changes.

[KirkLasVegas]

Bob...
If I remember correctly...
if you get a 65-3, you turn the key and get a 65-1
THEn you push and hold the test button for 3 seconds or until the display goes blank..then close the door


Kirk

[fanninislots]

Goldfinger,

Try it with a 10 meg board

Ben

[Goldfinger]

I tried a 10 and 16 meg board neither would allow the switch to work and when I tried them in a regular S+ it worked but the reels spin backwards
Bob

[stayouttadabunker]

I'm sure you tried already but in case you didn't...hold the test switch a little longer like about 7 or 8 seconds...
don't worry about hearing a "ding" or not...the "ding" sound doesn't always works due to bad speakers or wires or the volume is turned too low.
This machine doesn't seem like you can swap boards too much because it uses a pretty rare chip that you got from Ben.
Please make a good back up of that later on after you get this thing up and running.
I think your wiring is okay...disconnect any mechanical meter plugs and fluorescent lights for now.
Keep the wiring simple as possible until you get it to boot up.
Later on you can plug in the meters and lights.
There's a little black molex on the mother board that can be confusing...I always get it wrong because it fits into 2 possible places on the motherboard.
I think it's a 5 or 6 pin black molex. I'm not near my machine at the moment but maybe someone else will chime in here and help you with that connector location before I get back to your thread.
Another way of getting rid of "sticking" 65-1 codes is to do a clear then put back in the SP and give yourself a clean plate and see if the 65-1 comes back.
Maybe you can try one more MPU board swap just to see what code pops up too.