Did I fry something on my Bally 6000?

[dinot]

Hi all,
I have 3 Bally 6000 machines (Beach Party, Winning for Dummies, and Wild Times). Wild Times has been giving me an error 81 which is a low battery error. So I decide to buy 3 new Tadrium TL-5104 batteries to replace all 3 at the same time.
I swap all 3 batteries. I may not be an electrical engineer, but I have a good soldering station and I can solder very well. After a complete saferam clear, the first 2 (Winning for Dummies and Beach Party) come up just fine. When I went to put in the board for Wild Times, the machine came up with an 83F1 error. This error is an invalid Main EPROM error. Crud!!! This board seemed to have been crushed at some point in its life as all the jumpers were flattened. Before I put it back I figured that I'd straighten them. (I am hoping that this didn't cause my issue.)
So I decide to see if my board has issues or if it is the EPROM. So I swap the roms from Winning for Dummies. I put both boards back in and perform a complete saferam clear. Now both machines have an 83F1 error. Oh double crud!!! I swapped the ROMS back to their original boards and they still both have an 83F1 error. Triple Crud!!!

I am guessing this is what happened. The board with flattened jumpers (Wild Times) was somehow bad. I am guessing that my straightening of the jumpers shorted something which messed up the roms.  It fried the ROMS that it had in there. When I swapped the ROMS it fried the other ROMS.

Does it sound correct or is there something else I can try? I am too afraid to do anything with the one remaining working board and roms. (I had considered putting the roms from Beach Party into the board from Winning for Dummies, but I chickened out)

Thanks.

[PWRSTROKE]

I am not a pro on those but from your description I would say you have it nailed.  DO not mess with your last working board/game.  You have a bad board in I think you said wild times and it most probably fried your eproms from the others.  "Obtain" some
eproms for the others that were working and restore them back,  get a known good working board and eproms for the other.  These games igt,williams,bally work differently but in a since are all the same in a since.  Sorry not much help B.

[paul]

Have you ever did a ram clear to that board with those chips before check all the pins on the chips you took out make sure they are not bent,make sure the chips are in right sockets. if you removed J12 to do your soldering make sure it is back in place

[blueridgeslots]

When you did the Ram Clear, did you use Both U-28 and U-43 Clear chips and hold down the Test and Psuedo buttons on the board while powering up?, also you may not have new enough clear chips for the one game, just make sure you put the eproms back in with the notch going the correct way as well

[dinot]

There are chips in the U28 and U43 sockets. I did the complete saferam by holding the test/pseudo coin button till CL C appeared. I did check the EPROMS to make sure they are all in the correct direction. I also tried reseating them.
I believe that the clear chips work as I have cleared both machines prior to this "incident".

The board I am not too worried about since I've seen them go up on eBay and I can probably get one from the dealer I bought my machines from. Are the EPROMS hard to get for say a large seller? My dealer is closed till Monday so I am going to stew all weekend to find out if he can get them. (He is a big Bally 6000 dealer) If the EPROMS are easy to get, I will be more relaxed 

Thanks for the help.

[PWRSTROKE]

Eproms should be easy to get.  Contact some folks here for help (pm) such as blueridge etc. for guidance and they may be able to get you out of your weekend jam.

[blueridgeslots]

Mains and Supplements are easy to obtain, easier to damage them while soldering than by messing with board jumpers, never had that happen

[PWRSTROKE]

After reading your initial post with your issue I still think you have it nailed-get another good board and eproms, clear it out, set it up etc. and you should be good to go on that one.  Looks like you know the procedure and set-up.  You may have more issues with that game once you get past that point as you very well may know.  The others you "robbed" to try that one out you have probably fried the chips due to a "short to ground"-smashed board/pins. 

[dinot]

Thanks for the notes folks. I feel better now that I've heard from you guys. I am an electronics hypochondriac. I'd worry about this all weekend thinking I completely hosed my slots. I know the my dealer will do all he can to help up to swapping my board at no charge. I am a believer of taking responsibility and would insist on paying him for a replacement board since I am the one that killed it. But since I don't have a programmer I would accept new EPROMS from him for no charge. (He is a very good guy)

What sucks is that pinball is my main hobby and I perform board repairs all the time. Never had a single issue. I even did some board repairs on my laptop (replaced the DC jack). I use a soldering station (not some cheapo soldering iron) when doing board work. This seemed soooo easy to do. Cut the battery, desolder 2 leads and solder in the new battery. Wham, bam 5 mins worth of work.

Grrr...oh well, I will also look for a new Bally 6000 board as a spare. I had one go bad last year after 1 day of receiving the slot (I hadn't touched that one) and my dealer sent me a replacement at no charge.

The somewhat fortunate thing is that I sold the Beach Party to a coworker. (Coming to get it on Monday) It didn't need a battery but it was the original 5 year old battery so I figured I'd swap it just to avoid getting a call from this person down the road.

[PWRSTROKE]

If you purchased the game from that guy with a smashed board/pins He should make it rite unless you bought it as-is.  You should feel better even if that does not work out as there are vendors and members here that Have known-tested working parts to get you up and going-no e-bay hassels and guessing is it good or is it not!.  Thanks B. and Good Luck sure you are on the rite path. 

[dinot]

Thanks again for the help. I posted a WTB in the classifieds section. I should have not tried to swap the battery (in hindsight) since that slot is under warranty from my dealer. (1 year warranty and I just got it last week....at a pinball show no less) I'll see what my dealer says. I've bought 3 slots from him and he has been a very good seller. I have almost no doubt that he will offer to replace the board, I will still feel bad and offer to pony up since in the end I am the one that hosed it.

Next time, I buy a battery holder and cut out the lithium. No soldering. This left me scarred 

Though I am a newbie in this hobby it is soooooo refreshing to come to a forum where everyone is cordial, friendly and eager to help. With pinball even though there are plenty of very helpful folks, (RGP newsgroup) there seem to be just as many ready to bicker and fight. Thank you very much.

One last quick question....When I finally get a replacement board and roms, I am guessing the order in which I do things is:

1) Install roms
2) Flip switch 8
3) Insert board, power up and perform a complete saferam clear
4) Power off, flip switch 8 back and enjoy

Thanks

[PWRSTROKE]

I have had at least over 100 pinballs exhange my hands and I love them.  I currently have-0- now but know how to fix them esp. the newer ones (1985-to present).  I am currently working on a deal to get a stern monopoly and a wof as well as get my old cactus canyon back.  I do vintage arcade games also-ground up restores and have the connections here local at my disposal over 1,000 arcade games dead or alive he has them.  The experts/pro's here can chk your procedure on set-up of your game but it sounds correct-I only fooled with one of those in the past-They are cool games and I probably will get some more 6'000's.  Thanx B.

[dinot]

I have had at least over 100 pinballs exhange my hands and I love them.  I currently have-0- now but know how to fix them esp. the newer ones (1985-to present).  I am currently working on a deal to get a stern monopoly and a wof as well as get my old cactus canyon back.  I do vintage arcade games also-ground up restores and have the connections here local at my disposal over 1,000 arcade games dead or alive he has them.  The experts/pro's here can chk your procedure on set-up of your game but it sounds correct-I only fooled with one of those in the past-They are cool games and I probably will get some more 6'000's.  Thanx B.

I only deal with dot matrix pins. (1992-up) I have gone through about 15 pins in the last 3 years. My collection now consists of: Family Guy, Cirqus Voltaire, Monster Bash, Theatre of Magic and Medieval Madness. Only have room for 5 so something must go for something to come in. I really want an Attack From Mars but can't bring myself to sell anything.

I am sort of new to Slots. From what I gather so far (and please correct me if I am wrong) Bally slots are equivalent to Sega/Data East pins, while IGT's are equivalent to Williams/Bally pins. So far I like my Bally 6000's. I also have an IGT S+ (triple diamond deluxe) but prefer the Bally's. The only reason I have the IGT is because whenever someone comes over they instantly know that slot but aren't too familiar with the Bally's. Of my current machines I really like the Wild Times slot because it has a bonus mode in the top glass. I have also have a Beach Party with a bonus mode, but that one doesn't play any music/sound when in the bonus mode so I lost interest in that one and I am selling it.

If anyone knows of any other Bally 6000's that have a bonus mode in the top glass, please let me know. I'd like to get another one.

[PWRSTROKE]

yes,  The dot matrix pins are my choice as well the diagnostics are good for their time and much funner to play.  The bally 6'000 's and simular were way ahead of the time when they came out.  They completley blow a s+ away in my opinion as far as game play and sound.  Again my thoughts.  As I stated I will be getting another one of those for my game room.  I also have to give to get.  I have 16 slots and arcade games,pool table,air hockey, crane game etc.  game room is full!.  Glad to have talked to you here.  You will find we are all nuts about this stuff.  Talk again soon B.

[dinot]

yes,  The dot matrix pins are my choice as well the diagnostics are good for their time and much funner to play.  The bally 6'000 's and simular were way ahead of the time when they came out.  They completley blow a s+ away in my opinion as far as game play and sound.  Again my thoughts.  As I stated I will be getting another one of those for my game room.  I also have to give to get.  I have 16 slots and arcade games,pool table,air hockey, crane game etc.  game room is full!.  Glad to have talked to you here.  You will find we are all nuts about this stuff.  Talk again soon B.

Ok....so I am not alone.
In my gameroom (and spilling out of my gameroom) I have
5 pins
2 Bally 6000 slots
1 IGT S+ slot
Crane Machine (elaut Mega Crane currently stocked with NFL jumbo plush)
Mame upright
Mame cocktail
Megatouch Vibe (Force 2005.5)
Super Chexx
Driving Cabinet (gutted hydro thunder and replaced it with Xbox360, steering wheel, 5.1 surround speakers and 2 subwoofers)


I just bought the crane last weekend (along with my now non-functional Wild Times slot) at a Pinball show in York PA. My wife started to give me the hairy eyeball....might be time for me to chill out.

[PWRSTROKE]

Yes,  You gotta keep the wife happy in one way or the other (if yo know what i mean).  The Crane machine will be the biggest hit if you have kids.  Fill it full of goodies and they will play that while we hit the slots!. . I am retiring for the night-gonna try to wake momma up!-Yea rite - .  Welcome to NLG glad to have you aboard.

[a69mopar]

If your board "fried" your eproms from both machines then your clear chips could also be fried as you inserted them also.  Are you sure that the only things fried aren't your clear chips.  do you have another set of clear chips?  I have had some in the past that had been put in backwards which threw off the checksum.  I would try new clear chips first.
do you know what version your U28 and U43 Mains are?  are they the same in all 3 machines?  what are your u18 and u20 (Game) chips?

Your dealer would definitely have extra Main chips, it's the u18 and u20 that are tougher to find.

Don't be fearful of a battery change, I have done plenty of them on S6000 boards without any board problems.

There are chips in the U28 and U43 sockets. I did the complete saferam by holding the test/pseudo coin button till CL C appeared. I did check the EPROMS to make sure they are all in the correct direction. I also tried reseating them.
I believe that the clear chips work as I have cleared both machines prior to this "incident".

The board I am not too worried about since I've seen them go up on eBay and I can probably get one from the dealer I bought my machines from. Are the EPROMS hard to get for say a large seller? My dealer is closed till Monday so I am going to stew all weekend to find out if he can get them. (He is a big Bally 6000 dealer) If the EPROMS are easy to get, I will be more relaxed 

Thanks for the help.

By this I believe you mean that you removed the u28 and u43 (Mains)eproms, inserted the respective clear chips, performed the clear, then took out the clear chips and reinstalled the Mains(u28 and u43).

I'm sure that if you take all of the suspect parts back to your dealer they will fix it.  If not then let us know.

Good luck,
Wayne

[a69mopar]

I forgot to ask which "roms" you swapped from the good board?  U18? and U20? or U28? and U43?  or all or??. 

Thanks,
Wayne

[dinot]

Wayne,
OK...my newbieness might really show through here. I did not swap the chips in U28 and U43 between the boards because they had the same labels with what looks to be the same checksum across all 3 of my Bally 6000's. (for those keeping score)

U28 reads S6M1000A0008-00  U28 2MB (0D95h)
U43 reads S6M4000A0008-00 U43 2MB (9F00h)


I swapped U18, U20, U30 and U45 between the boards. Don't know what each is but they looked specific to the game. Those 4 chips have labels that are torn or not there so I can't get much from them.
For some reason I thought that the U28 and U43 chips were clear chips, but from your post I am guessing that there are different chips that go into U28 and U43 which are clear chips.

Also, I was looking over the board with the bent jumpers to see if any stray solder might have caused a short (which I didn't find) I couldn't resist the urge to touch one or 2 more bent jumpers. (They were really annoying me) So now I can't even do a complete saferam clear and the board comes up with the error 88FF which is a catastrophic failure. I guess that pretty much seals the fate on that one.

Also, the second machine which I successfully swapped batteries on (but now doesn't work since I swapped the chips over to the "really bad" board) still shows the 831F error with its original chips back. Is it safe to assume that the board on that one is fine and I only need to swap the chips?

Thanks again!!! 

[dinot]

One more thought I had. You referred to the U28 and U43 chips as the mains. The error I get is in regards to the Main EPROM. If it truly means the main EPROM that should be U28 and U43 which were never swapped. I am hoping that this error can also mean the game roms.

[a69mopar]

U28 and U43 are the mains

U18 and U20 are the Personality eproms.

U30 and U45 are the saferam and never need to be removed for any game change or clear.

I guess you need to ge a set of clear chips which will correct the problem.

Do you have a manual?

Thanks,
Wayne

[Joeylc]

dinot if you can make it to the command center we have 5 or 6 6000 in storage dirt cheap if you need parts 


Joeylc
NLG Admin

[a69mopar]

Wayne,
OK...my newbieness might really show through here. I did not swap the chips in U28 and U43 between the boards because they had the same labels with what looks to be the same checksum across all 3 of my Bally 6000's. (for those keeping score)

U28 reads S6M1000A0008-00  U28 2MB (0D95h)
U43 reads S6M4000A0008-00 U43 2MB (9F00h)


I swapped U18, U20, U30 and U45 between the boards. Don't know what each is but they looked specific to the game. Those 4 chips have labels that are torn or not there so I can't get much from them.
For some reason I thought that the U28 and U43 chips were clear chips, but from your post I am guessing that there are different chips that go into U28 and U43 which are clear chips.

Also, I was looking over the board with the bent jumpers to see if any stray solder might have caused a short (which I didn't find) I couldn't resist the urge to touch one or 2 more bent jumpers. (They were really annoying me) So now I can't even do a complete saferam clear and the board comes up with the error 88FF which is a catastrophic failure. I guess that pretty much seals the fate on that one.

Also, the second machine which I successfully swapped batteries on (but now doesn't work since I swapped the chips over to the "really bad" board) still shows the 831F error with its original chips back. Is it safe to assume that the board on that one is fine and I only need to swap the chips?

Thanks again!!! 

Doing a ram clear can clear this(88ff) error code.




For a Complete, Full, or Partial SafeRAMâ„¢ Clear, turn
the machine power OFF. Unlock and remove the MPU
assembly. If SafeRAMâ„¢ Clear EPROMs are required,
remove the Main EPROMs from U28 and U43 and replace them with the corresponding clear chips.
If EPROMs are not required, turn DIP DS1 sw8 ON.( I change the position(from off to on or from on to off) and return it to the previous position, different mains have different positions.)
After ensuring that the MPU assembly is firmly seated into the backplane board, turn the machine power ON
while depressing the appropriate buttons.

Complete - Press and hold the PSEUDO COIN and TEST buttons, then switch power ON. When the message CH
C displays in WIN PAID, release the PSEUDO COIN and TEST
buttons. The CH C message is followed by CL C

If an error was detected during SafeRAMâ„¢ Clear as
designated by E C, E F, E P in WIN PAID, repeat the
operation.
Upon a successful SafeRAMâ„¢ Clear, the button and
tower lamps flash. Switch power OFF and replace the
SafeRAMâ„¢ Clear EPROMs with the Mains, or turn DS1
sw8 OFF. Replace the MPU assembly and switch machine
power ON. The machine will enter a Reel Calibration
Procedure whereby the home position is recorded in
SafeRAMâ„¢. For tilt-free operation, it is important that the procedure completes without interruption

Good luck,
Wayne

[a69mopar]

dinot if you can make it to the command center we have 5 or 6 6000 in storage dirt cheap if you need parts 


Joeylc
NLG Admin

I wish I were a few thousand Kilometers closer.

W

[a69mopar]

do you have any WBA21, 22 or 23 heads?  My Canadian is showing here.

Thanks,
Wayne