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Author Topic: Expert tells inside secrets  (Read 11424 times)
westec1
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« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2008, 06:14:57 PM »

I agree words like that are way to big for me bust gut laughing bust gut laughing

Obfuscation: is the concealment of meaning in communication, making it confusing and harder to interpret frying pan

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« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2008, 06:20:35 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/9tuBXcLMR3U&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/9tuBXcLMR3U&rel=0</a>
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« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2008, 06:04:45 AM »

Op Bell, although I know that you have a personal bias against IGT through our conversations, you have good cause to do so, and your observations in this case are right on the mark. Let's face it: in every industry one observes, one finds the most powerful corporations in bed with regulators and politicians, wielding their power to crush the competition.

I had figured out IGT's method of using virtual stops on my own years ago, and had realized as early as 1991 that they were stacking the blanks near the jackpot symbols to give the illusion of near misses. I even programmed my own slot machines on my PC using the same methods back then. I knew nothing of Universal's approach until reading about it here (on the old site) some time back, and as an industry outsider it seemed to me that they were basically accomplishing the same goal as IGT, albeit using a slightly unusual approach.

I was angered to find out what had happened in this case as I used to enjoy playing the old Unis and had never quite understood why they disappeared; they were popular in their day. Perhaps now with the advent of the video slots which generally have WYSIWYG reels we will see this issue finally put to bed… perhaps not. muted
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« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2008, 06:45:10 AM »

I just watched the RNG video above. For the most part, I have no issues with what was said, but he didn't tell the whole story in his comparison between the ping-pong ball style of lottery draw and a computer RNG.

No computer can be completely random, although they can come close. A physical system of picking those ping-pong balls which relies on chaos theory is truly random, as long as care is taken to ensure that all of the balls are within a very narrow tolerance of weight and balance, and that the tolerance allowed is statistically insignificant compared to the strong forces acting on the balls (airflow and gravity in this case).

That's why they still use a physical system of picking numbers to this day when very large amounts of money are involved, such as the lotteries and high denomination keno. You will never see a video keno machine with a top prize of $250 thousand or more for a one or two-dollar bet.
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« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2008, 09:35:27 AM »

I agree with Stat's, all rng sub-routines require a not so randomn seed to begin calculations.

There's also an oversimplification of the virtual stop mapping as we know that the numbers selected go through an algorythm to actually come up with each virtual stop on the reel listing.  The numbers are NOT mapped to symbols, but rather are used to calculate the actual virtual stop.

Being very picky here:

1.  The RNG is not a program, it is a sub-routine inside a program.  Although it can be a program, it is not in this case as by definition an RNG program's only function is to come up with a randomn number, and in the case of Slots, it's only one of many functions within the program.

2.  Not all slots use eproms to determine paytable holdback.

It would have been more accurate had he just referred to the slot software as opposed to try to break them down in components during his presentation.
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« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2008, 11:14:19 PM »

I was doing a port on a black berry, and it generates a random number for the encryption key.
To seed this operation you are asked to make random movements with the mouse.
I found  this interesting. Given that they could have simply relied upon similar techniques as the RNG would use.
Unless of course they feel that a computer cannot generate a truly random number....

I would really like to understand the developers logic on this one....
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« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2008, 12:47:16 AM »

Quote
I was doing a port on a black berry, and it generates a random number for the encryption key.
To seed this operation you are asked to make random movements with the mouse.
I found  this interesting. Given that they could have simply relied upon similar techniques as the RNG would use.
Unless of course they feel that a computer cannot generate a truly random number....

I would really like to understand the developers logic on this one....

Well right, the computer really can't generate a truly random number. Its RNG generates a repeatable sequence, and if an attacker knew what position it was at when you generated your key, or could introduce a bug that would set it to a known value, he could generate the same key. It may seem very unlikely, but in proper cryptology you take no chances. The mouse movements add a truly random element that can't be simulated or reproduced. They used a similar system in the public encryption program PGP, where you had to pound on the keyboard for a while to generate the keys. It wasn't what you typed, but the time intervals between letters, that added the randomness.

In slot machines the RNG runs constantly, and it's the time when you hit the start button that is the sequence-breaking element. The RNG value is also saved in non-volatile memory so that it doesn't reset every time you power up - someone learned this the hard (and expensive) way with a certain kind of Keno machine.


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