Newbe question - How many coins in hopper ?

[DorothyMacaw]

Hi

I just ordered an "I Dream Of Jeannie" machine and expect it here shortly. I am wondering how many coins you suggest putting into the hopper. I see you can program the number of coins that is paid out before a paid by attendant message is flashed. I don't want to get the code 61 (?) (hopper empty) error  just because it sounds like a pain to clear.

 - Thanks - Dorothy

[stayouttadabunker]

Hi ! Welcome to NLG Dorothy! 
Codes "3100, 3200, and 3300" regard the hopper errors in S+'s.
Code "61" is normal when starting up a new machine for the first time.
It's very easy to clear.
All you do is press the little white test button, you should get a "61-1"
then close the door and turn the reset key and the game should boot up,
going into it's maiden reel spin then lighting up the shadow box
on the reel glass asking for you to "Insert Coin".
Do you have an S+ or an S2000?
I'm a bit confused.
Are you capable of posting a photo of your machine here?

[DorothyMacaw]

Thanks Bunker

The game is a S2000 and no I can't post a photo of it yet. It is still enroute to me.

I know that is isn't too difficult to clear the error, but if I can avoid having to do that by keeping enough coins in the hopper while keeping it fun is the best of both worlds for me.

 - Dorothy.

[stayouttadabunker]

Well, I use mine as a piggy bank.
I've had as little as a couple handfuls to a full hopper of coins.
It's a personal preference as to how many coins you'd
like to limit the machine to pay out.
I like trying to accumulate credits onto the meter so
I rarely hit the cash-out button.

At other times, I like to make a game within a game so I've programmed
the hopper to pay out 100 coins.
I like to print out a ticket whenever I run out of 100 coins.
Whoever has the highest ticket, wins! ( I play against my wife as
we take turns playing 100 coins. )
If she has more points than me on her ticket - I get to take out
the garbage, do the dishes, or fold the laundry!
Whenever I win, I like making her change the kitty litter...lol

[staz]

you also can make your machine coinless with a few simple setting changes in your options...... i personally hate dealing with coins your hands get all dirty lol.....but when i got my 1st slot machine back in the day i went to the bank and ordered $500 in quarters so i always kept 2000 quarters in the hopper......i think defualt settings the machine pays up to 1000 quarters before it goes in a jackpot mode.....i wish someone can invent a way for a machine to take the tickets it prints as cash in the bv that be pretty cool....  on your  slot machine......

[brichter]

It's already been invented, Staz.

The casinos do it daily, the home user just can't get their hands on the necessary software.

[staz]

thats what i mean id luv to get that software lol

[Magicslots]

The casinos do it daily, the home user just can't get their hands on the necessary software.

True, but the genius that figures out how to make it work at home, is sitting on a gold mine!

[stayouttadabunker]

Some thing-a-ma-jig gets plugged into the motherboard somewhere and
the signals go out to an external computer loaded with special software -
which validates the bar code printed on the ticket.
Then the signal get processed and returns back to the microprocessor on the MPU board and
the MPU board sends a signal to the credit display showing how much you get.
That's basically what happens when you stick a bar-coded ticket into a DBV,
HOW  it is done - is anyone's guess...

Allow me to throw something out there...
The DBV knows the difference between a $1 dollar bill and a $20 dollar bill...right?
Pictures of ones and twenties on a chip?
The head senses enough percentage of certain print in proper positions on a printed bill and validates it.
I'm sure a single chip doesn't have enough room for all the possible bar-code pictures.
Is this part of the reason why the validation process is done with an external computer?

[golflover]

Well, I use mine as a piggy bank.
I've had as little as a couple handfuls to a full hopper of coins.
It's a personal preference as to how many coins you'd
like to limit the machine to pay out.
I like trying to accumulate credits onto the meter so
I rarely hit the cash-out button.

At other times, I like to make a game within a game so I've programmed
the hopper to pay out 100 coins.
I like to print out a ticket whenever I run out of 100 coins.
Whoever has the highest ticket, wins! ( I play against my wife as
we take turns playing 100 coins. )
If she has more points than me on her ticket - I get to take out
the garbage, do the dishes, or fold the laundry!
Whenever I win, I like making her change the kitty litter...lol

WoW Bunker.. And I thought I had an interesting life

[Ron (r273)]

Well, I use mine as a piggy bank.
I've had as little as a couple handfuls to a full hopper of coins.
It's a personal preference as to how many coins you'd
like to limit the machine to pay out.
I like trying to accumulate credits onto the meter so
I rarely hit the cash-out button.

At other times, I like to make a game within a game so I've programmed
the hopper to pay out 100 coins.
I like to print out a ticket whenever I run out of 100 coins.
Whoever has the highest ticket, wins! ( I play against my wife as
we take turns playing 100 coins. )
If she has more points than me on her ticket - I get to take out
the garbage, do the dishes, or fold the laundry!
Whenever I win, I like making her change the kitty litter...lol

WoW Bunker.. And I thought I had an interesting life

Sure glad my wife does not read these posts!

Ron (r273)

[golflover]

I second that motion !!!!! 

[stayouttadabunker]

  It's a small price for me playing golf and playing with slot machines! 

[golflover]

It's a small price for me playing golf and playing with slot machines! 

Well my wife is the slot player around here. My job is to keep them going to keep her happy...lol Course it is keeping me so busy getting them running for her I have had no time for golf  

[StatFreak]

...
I'm sure a single chip doesn't have enough room for all the possible bar-code pictures.
Is this part of the reason why the validation process is done with an external computer?

It doesn't work that way. First, let me say that I don't really know what IGT does with SAS to implement their ticket system. However, as a database analyst and software engineer, I've got a pretty good idea.

There is a database on a server that issues bar code numbers upon demand. In it's simplest form, the database would only need a table with a few fields: a unique record ID, a field to store the dollar value of the ticket, a field to store the date/time that the ticket was issued, a field to store the ID of the slot that issued the ticket, a field to store the date/time that the ticket was redeemed, a field to store the ID of the slot or device that redeemed the ticket, and possibly a flag to indicate that the ticket was redeemed (although the redemption time stamp field could serve in this capacity.)

The record ID would become the bar code number printed on the ticket.

The slot would transmit a request to print a ticket and the dollar value being "cashed out", the database would then create a new record with a unique record ID (serial number), store the dollar value in the database along with a date/time stamp and the ID of the machine making the request, and then return the serial number to the slot and direct it to print a ticket and clear the credits. It also probably sends the date/time stamp info to the machine to be printed on the ticket in text.

Now you walk over to another slot or redemption booth and insert your ticket. The machine sends a request to validate the ticket, along with the serial number that it reads from the bar code. The database receives the request and looks up the record. If it is a valid, open record, then it enters a time stamp in the redemption field and the ID of the redeeming equipment in the appropriate field (and possibly sets the redeemed flag if the time stamp isn't used for that purpose), and transmits a command to accept the ticket and it's dollar value to the redeeming machine. The machine then either adds credits or pays out your cash, depending on what it's programmed to do. If the database does not find a matching open record, it sends back a command to reject the ticket and the device spits it back out.

Now there has to be more to it. There needs to be a communication protocol and security (although home users wouldn't care about that). There has to be a way of ensuring that each end has completed it's task successfully. In other words, if the slot cannot print the ticket, it has to let the database know this so that the database either deletes the record or marks it as void (perhaps yet another field). Conversely, a redeeming device must notify the database that it has successfully concluded the transaction so that the ticket can be marked as redeemed. The redeeming device might also have several error codes that it could transmit to indicate failure, and why. There would probably be a log table in the relational database that would record any failures, including communication timeout errors. That security log would also record any invalid redemption attempts (anytime it told a redeeming device to reject the ticket). It would also probably log the reason. I would suspect that if the reason were that there was a valid record, but that it had already been redeemed, this would raise flags for investigation (copies of valid tickets being used).

Now here's the thing. That protocol that communicates between the slots and the database server is copyrighted by IGT. If you try to tap into the slot to see what it's sending or expecting to receive and build your own communication program and make your own database, they'll probably still come after you for reverse engineering the thing, unless you keep it to yourself and only use it quietly in your home.

If you want to bypass everything inside the slot that uses proprietary protocols and build your own protocol and database from scratch, they probably wouldn't be able to touch you -- but that would probably mean starting at the printer itself and even rebuilding the way that it communicates with the slot. If you use built in protocols and actually market the thing to the public, you can expect a knock on your door.

Any of our experts who know more about the real thing than I are welcome to correct and slap me.

[Neonkiss]

[reho33]

What about converting Netplex to TCP/IP or some other protocol that common computers can understand? Or just trash Netplex altogether and design a board that would you allow you to configure devices based on USB to the motherboard? I'll bet it has been done, standard x86 based chip and motherboard and reels,bill validator, hopper, etc all run on external power and USB? I am not a programmer, just some "Brain Beef Jerky" to chew on.................

[stayouttadabunker]

Your post was excellent Stat!
I, of course, am never interested in the idea of actually making any money from this
but only try and understand how these things work to encourage our
community to have some kind of working validation system for our home machines.

I understand the legal implications of one ever trying to make a buck off of this type of system.
Because of that - I have no interest in selling a "Gold Mine"....lol
That would be a one way ticket to jail...lol

To be able to somehow make our DBV's accept our home tickets to use for our own
personal enjoyment on our own home-owned machines
IS the ultimate goal of this endeavor - nothing more.
Thanks for a better understanding of how these things work.
I learn something new every day! 

[jay]

Per the reverse enginerring aspect. IGT licenses SAS so if you want to get around it you pay them whatever they demand and you then have the rights to create your own Cash Management System.
The wiring protocol is Rs422.

I have a RS422 to ethernet converter and it will actually tunnel the packets via TCP/IP to the otherside of the network, regardless of the form it  is still SAS.
These adapters are generally used for sending Camera Signals (pan tilt, zoom, rotate etc) across a network.

Even the old S+ can do ETF (Electronic Funds Transfer) so ticket in is not impossible. Ticket out is a different matter.