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Hello to any one willing to help! I have an old and rare S+ and I need to enable the ba after a board swap. The game chip is labeled SS055 Mech RS3050. Any help would be appreciated.

:238- Mirage_Chaser :88-

Something doesn't sound right. An S+ doesn't have an RS chip. An S+ would use an SP (SP055) and an SS chip (SS3050).
An S Slot would use an RS chip but wouldn't have an SS chip (or an SP). It also probably wouldn't have a BV.

There has to be an SP chip with a number that low, but I've never seen one. I also don't have any info on the SS3050. I do have the PAR for SS3051.

 :211-


StatFreak :31-
:nlg-  Global Moderator

Is the Bill Acceptor hanging on the out side?
Post pictures of the front and inside of the
slot .
  

Could be an S just not sure. It looks like an S+ board. I will include a picture of the board.

Here is the front. It's not your average S+...


Whoops... upside down not sure how that happened...

ADMIN NOTE: It was really heavy, but I was uble to turn it right side up for you!!! CH  :95- :admin-
That is a Big Bertha!

That's an S+ board with a couple of missing chips.

Please post pictures of the slot, inside and out, and a full (uncut) picture of the MPU board.

Well I don't know about missing chips. It is operational as it is now. And before the board swap the ba did work... no chips have been left off and I will get another picture of the board just a minute.

Whoa! That's a Big Bertha. It's also on a casino carpet and appears to be in a casino.

That certainly appears to be an S-slot RS chip inserted into an S+ board. I've never seen that done. :103-

Can anyone else jump in here?


<ADD> CH :95- are you rotating the image?

Is it possible a S+ board will work with a S chip? Has anyone ever tried?

My point exactly. I'm half tempted to go in the other room and try it. :79-

I turned the machine right side up, so I am too tired to do anything else!!! :279- :200- :208-

Did you run a set chip to try to enable the BV?

CH :95-

Well like I said it is operational. here is a second picture of the board and the main door open.

CH :95-  before he gets out a SET chip, it might be a good idea to figure out how this thing is running. Despite its size, it appears to have one of those Seven Systems validators that Bunker spent dozens of posts on a while ago. Link to follow...

<EDIT>

It's that really long thread that's still active.
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=13519.msg116274#msg116274 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=13519.msg116274#msg116274)
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=13519.msg116839#msg116839 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=13519.msg116839#msg116839)

Stat :31-

I tried 15 as I had it but it was a no go. Double checked that the chip was good and it does still work in your everyday S+.

The BA is a nightmare... but it does accept... most of the time. Or well it did before the board swap.

Good, I was asking an obvious question of course, but you never know... I wonder if anyone here knows if a different set chip would be needed here? I know that there are chips below set15...

CH :95-

P.S. You gotta love that has an industrial circuit breaker box built in! :97-

When you swapped the board, was it with the same game? Because at least on a S+ the BV should stay enabled if the game does not change. I wonder if this is a stand alone type of BV and there is just something else wrong. Is the BV rejecting bills or not taking them at all?

Out of curiosity, why did you swap the board?

Bunker might be able to help with that Seven Systems validator.



 :205-  :208- :208- 

It is best to double check I am not innocent of "over teching"

The BA is unplugged now but when plugged in it accepts and gives no credit. No it is not from the same game as I only have one giant machine, but it is from another 4 reel game but that did not have a BA. Swapped the board because of a short in the backplane. I pulled it out to repair. And when I put it back the board wouldn't boot. Swapped the board and it came up.

Does anyone besides Bunker know about these Sevens Systems validators? Are they activated with a SET chip?

If so, then the trick will be to figure out what SET chip was intended to work with that RS chip. Since it has "055" printed on it, it might require the same SET chip that an SP055 would have needed, whatever that would be. ?? :103-

Just a guess, of course.


Stat :31-



<ADD> The oldest PSR I have for a stepper slot is SP450, and it is supposed to use a SET005, FWIW.

I am thinking that it does need to be enabled but I am not certain. Also it is not a Sevens system ba I don't think. It is a cashcode ba.

I would look for something unplugged. Since it's taking bills, it sounds like its some sort of add on that is not enabled with a set chip. Just guessing of course, but if the motherboard was replaced, that means a lot of cables were were removed.

OTOH, if the motherboard was replaced, that means the EEPROM was replaced, and thus the BV may not be enabled any more (meaning it may require some special set chip).

<edit> when you used the set chip, did you set a denomination too?

Might have to wait and see if anyone here knows about the Cashcode.

There was a thread on the old site that was ported over before the site blew up. The poster mentioned using one with an S+, but never posted back as to how it worked.
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=271.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=271.0)


I think that the current Xavier is the same member, but he hasn't logged on since May.

No working set chip or this would be a very different post. So I couldn't set the ba and couldn't set the denom. Both must be set for the ba to work I believe. It may just be that I need to set the denom. There are some modified cashcodes BA's using the Seven Series BA housing and wiring so I assume that the process for enabling the BA would be the same for both. I did double check for missing connections and didn't find any.


And just a reminder it did work before the swap.

<edit> The ba is a mod, when new it didn't have a ba.

What does the set chip do when you used it? Anything at all? If not, I wonder if because it's a S+ board and that maybe it needs a S+ reel chip (any reel chip) installed just in order for the SET chip to boot. Again, just guessing here. I've never tried a set chip without a reel chip installed.

Might be. Yeah it did nothing. No display and no tones.

If you have a reel chip, it couldn't hurt to try. A set chip should always boot in a S+ board (unless it does need a reel chip present).

Anyone know what size the RS chips are? What about that jumper by the game chip. Maybe it's set for a smaller size eprom than the set chip you are using (because it's a S chip). Hard to see from the picture.

RS chips are 256k.

Poppo, the SP chips (and by extension, the RS) set up both the EEPROM and the CMOS with specific data, so an incompatible SET chip might not work (even though the SP/RS is removed when it is used). The RS chip is both the reel/game data and the program, so a lack of an SS shouldn't matter. The SS data don't have anything to do with the SET process anyway, so I doubt that an SS chip would make any difference.

Yes I agree that the set chip sets the eeprom data, but it 'should' still boot. I've used the wrong set chip for some SP chips and it would boot, but the setings would not work when I put the game chip back in. After all with no game chip, it's really just the set chip booting.

I know the reel chip really has nothing to do with things the set chips enables. I just don't know if the SET chip looks for the presence of one when it boots. Sort of like when you get the 'incompatible data chip' error when using the wrong game/reel combo.

Do you know if RS chips ever even supported BVs? Since the BV is taking bills, it must be enabled in some fashion other then via strictly a set chip.

Of course I suppose one could use a clear chip and then a set chip definitely should boot.

Your post reminded me that this is an S+ using an RS chip, and you're right about the fact that the program in the SET chip should boot on its own. Since the board is an S+ board (and presumably an S+ machine) we know that it is designed to support a SET chip.

As an aside Poppo, what do you think that little extra board is? It is related to the volume?

I assume so. I have seen it before. Not in person, but on boards for sale like on e-bay. I always figured it was just an early revision of the board.

As for the RS chip. If they never supported BVs (directly), then the whole set chip process is moot, since the chip won't even know how to interpret the setting even if it was enabled. That is why I was wondering if the BV adds credits some other way, like using the coin optics.

Well I will try a reel chip tomorrow with the 15 I have. And also check for missed connections again just be on the safe side. But I would really like to know what set chip I am supposed to be using... that might be the only problem.

It's still not clear that a SET chip is needed. It would be helpful if someone knew something about the Cashcode BV and how it works with an S+.  :79- :128-

My curiosity got the best of me and I tried booting with just a set chip and no reel chip and it did boot. So that's not it.

Well that's good information.


Yes it is possible that the cashcode ba's work in a different manner. But as I have not been able to enable the BA or set the denom it could very well be just those settings.

Right. Do RS chips even use set chips? Does anyone have a PSR for any RS chip to see what it says?

Keep in mind that typically when we say the BV is 'not enabled', that means it does not even turn on and won't accept bills. The SET chip normally turns on the BV to accept bills and then sets the denomination. So in actuality, your BV is 'enabled' since it is taking bills. I just have a feeling it adds the credits by 'pulsing' some line to simulate coins being inserted. But still just doing a lot of guessing here since this is an odd duck.

That is true. Maybe it is just the denom that needs to be set then. Or it could be that it's just the cash code is the odd duck and just steals bills when it is not enabled... Don't reply know for sure though.

This is a good point.  Where does the wiring for the bill validator go?  Does it go straight into the motherboard (backplane), or does it go elsewhere?  Does this machine use optics or a microswitch to add credits from inserted coins?

Also, since I'm assuming you're in a casino environment, do you have the PSR and/or the PAR for the SS055 or RS3050 on file anywhere?  I'm just wondering if any of the documentation for the chip might give any insight into the bill validator aspect.

Finally, I'd like to suggest that you may wish to re-post your request and pictures over at http://www.slottechforum.com/ (or at least post a link there to this thread).  That site has more active casino techs (most (but not all) of us are home hobbyists) and you're more likely to find someone there who is familiar with the Big Bertha machine you have (if you're lucky, someone there may still have one on their floor) and how to get your bill validator working.  Please keep us updated, though.  :89-

Wow! What a thread! I  just finished reading it all.

I think the fastest way to get that machine up and running is to pull out
the CashCode BV along with the Sevens System cashbox unit and swap the whole thing with
a regular WBA & cashbox as quickly as you can and use an SS reel chip that matches your reel strips.
I'm pretty sure but not entirely certain the reel strips are a clone of another game such as Double Diamond??
This way you will be able to use known working reel and SET chips.

You may or may not be able to use the Sevens Systems faceplate or go with something similar
that would allow the bill acceptor to stick out to receive bills.
You can plug in a regular display as well just by swapping a display glass with a cut-out and decals.
However, you may need to fashion a longer display harness that will reach from the button harness to the display.
I doubt there's any documentation or much help regarding the Seven Systems unit but there may be some help with the CashCode BV with using the correct SET chip at the slotechforum boards?

I'd like to point out that I do think it was possible that the RS chips may have supported BV's because I have seen some older S's with those ugly boxes bolted to the right hand side of the machines - I appears though that yours is empty and just hanging there?

In any event, I'd be downtown buying some Lexan or glass with a BV cut out and swapping that unit with a WBA.
A few shiny decals applied later will make the machine functional and looking good!

It's a 4-reeler.  :71-

Not saying that your suggestion couldn't be done, but it'd be a challenge.  Since the validator was working at one point with the existing chips, I'd lean towards sticking with what he has.  Who knows what kind of issues he'd run into with a new SP chip unless it was designed to support a big bertha.

I'm still interested in how the bill validator is wired in -- poppo might be on to something if the validator was hacked in after the fact.

Mirage_Chaser: Where are you located?  Antigua by chance?  I know of a few casinos in Las Vegas that still run Big Bertha machines.  It'd be a long shot, but if you're also in a licensed casino it might be possible for you to get a hold of one of your slot tech peers at one of those Vegas casinos who might be able to point you in the right direction, but I'd probably start with the folks at http://www.slottechforum.com/ .

The big question though is did the chip support it, or were they just wired into the coin mechanism as an 'ad-on'.  Put a bill in, and it just pulses x number of times 'tricking' the coin in unit to add credits. Most of the 'universal' BVs, can be set to pulse the proper denomination. i.e once per dollar for a dollar machine or 4 times per dollar for a quarter machine etc. That is how my MAME rig is set up. BV is wired in parallel with the coin mechanism.

Just to make sure everyone's looking at the correct part of the machine....

(http://i56.tinypic.com/rctt92.png)

If that CashCode is tricking the coin-in optics or something - that's something I'd like to see.
As far as swapping the CashCode with a DBV & cashbox...I'd say there's plenty of room!  :97-
I'd leave the big box and just swap faceplates for the BV.
He already has a separate display panel working showing "4" credits - that's probably plugged
right to the the door harness or directly into the MPU harness.
 
I agree with Knagl in that ugly box hanging on the right might be for player tracking...
I don't know why they didn't just go with a Bally 200 /250 player tracking unit unit... :5

That's a really compact button deck there.
Does it have the wrong insert?
Looks like it says "Play 5 Coins"?
Does this machine have a extra bonus award payout structure for the 5th coin on a 4-reeler?

Most all of the 4-reel Big Bertha slots I've seen are 5CM games.  Click to enlarge the first picture.


(http://i55.tinypic.com/2n89a81.jpg) (http://i55.tinypic.com/2n89a81.jpg)

(http://i55.tinypic.com/eracci.jpg)

(http://i56.tinypic.com/2vuc5mw.jpg)

(http://i52.tinypic.com/2ijq9z4.jpg)

Heh, I just noticed that at least on the first picture, if not all of them, the machine appears to have one of those S+/PE+ add-on side-mount bill validator boxes thrown in there to permit bill acceptance.   :72-


(Photo credit: FORDBS)

Sorry to be gone so long...

Ok first, yes the box on the side is player tracking (non op)...

Also 5 coin game with progressive.

And yes I am in Antigua, are you familiar with it knagl?

Againg not a Seven series so there is a separate display.

Knagl, that particular Bertha is a Bally, but even so, it might be possible to replace the Cashcode with a more modern DBV or WBA if the entire machine is an S+.
Mirage_Chaser, are the rest of the components besides the MPU the same as an S+? ( i.e., the motherboard, basic harness (I/O) configuration, etc.?)


One thing that bothers me though is that if the set chip won't work now, I'm not sure that replacing the BV would "enable" the set chip.

So, any chance of seeing how that BV is connected? Obviously it has a power cable. But where do the other cables go?

I will try to track and include pictures for the ba harness, the backplane is also an s+ part. It appears to be just a really big S or S+. The machine came from IGT so I don't know about it being a bally.

You misunderstood. The picture of the Big Bertha that knagl mentioned had a PE+ DBV was a Bally. I was referring to that picture.

It can't be an S if it is using an S+ MPU board and has an S+ motherboard. The S doesn't even have a motherboard. What I meant by "the entire machine"  being an S+ was that I don't know if your Big Bertha has any custom components not found in a regular S+.

Oh sorry for my confusion...

Here are the pictures I have so far of the harness
pic 1 is of the harness coming from the bottom of BA going to the meter board and the plug which heads down the door
pic 2 is j6 where half of the wires go (the one with the multimeter probe stuck in it) and on the right the 2 power wires going into the ps

Still think this might all be for naught if I can't enable the ba

Thats what we are trying to help do. But we need to make sure we are not on a wild goose chase if this BV is a 'hack' add on. It must be some sort of kludge because it's taking the bills and is does not appear to be dependent on the MPU telling it to turn on like a 'normal' BV.


Where do the other half go?

Possible alternative solution

Remove the EEPROM from the original faulty backplane board without damaging it (Its a 8 pin chip so should be do able).
Remove EEPROM from current motherboard and replace with 8 pin ic socket and put in EEPROM from original machine.

It should now update your processor board with the original settings.

BTW what eprom numbers does it report in test mode?

Ian

That would definitely work if it's a set chip related setting.

It is?  :103-  Are you sure about that, StatFreak?

I see the button deck is slightly different, but everything else appears to be the same as the other machines pictured (and the machine in question).  Are you letting the Ballys Las Vegas signage on it mislead you by chance?

Well 2 go to power and that leaves 4 and I am not really sure yet where they go... They are much harder to track down.



And alas the old backplane is nowhere to be had... Someone saw melted board and chucked it.

I am not familiar with the test mode, how do I find the test mode eprom number?

Here are directions:

http://www.newlifegames.net/spset/SPSS.htm (http://www.newlifegames.net/spset/SPSS.htm)

I suspect that it'll show you the 0055 and RS3050 that we already know from the label, but I guess it couldn't hurt.



Not at all -- just an educated guess.  :89-

Those directions were nice and easy to follow... but it didn't work... I cycled through the menu more than once and 4 never comes up. Just one more thing to pile on top of this heap.

I'm not sure if this will work with your RC chip. But here is what he was talking about.

http://www.newlifegames.net/spset/SPSS.htm (http://www.newlifegames.net/spset/SPSS.htm)


As already mentioned, just trying to determine if this BV is somehow tied into the coin-in mechenism. That is why we are wanting to know where the wiring goes.

The only other option I can think of, since you no longer have the original EEPROM is to use a clear chip. Then put a set of similar S+ chips in there. For example a Double Diamond SS reel chip and SP chip. Don't worry about the reels not matching or anything as we are just doing this temporarily. Then using your set chip, enable the BV and denomination. If the set chip still won't boot, then you have another problem.

If it does boot with the set chip and you have enabled the BV and set the denomination, you should be able to test the BV for adding credits. If it still does not add credits then it would indicate that the BV adds credits a different way (i.e. the coin mech) or is just broken. If it does work, then you can put your RS chip back in and hope that the BV stays enabled (it usually will if the game type is similar enough).

 :212- :212-
This is an excellent way to go Poppo!   :89-

I was looking at the picture and outlined in a yellow rectangle a couple of things that I have questions about.

In the smaller left outline, I see what appears to be bare wire pins
coming out of the back of the black Molex connector.
It looks to me that the plastic tie wrap is tugging on it.
Make sure those bare pins are NOT touching each other at all. (Possible shorting...?)
It could very account for some of the problems you're having?
I'd cut that tie wrap or move it back a bit and push those
bare wire pins back into the connector housing if possible.

In the 2nd rectangle on the right hand side near the button deck, I see that
there's a specially made IGT board (ASSY No.7690860) that has a relay on it towards the top center of it.
That is very unusual to see.

Not really know anything about that board as I've never seen before -
what would be that relay's function for? And is it operable and working?
Also, should there be anything plugged into the "J1" 2-pin header on that board?
Is there a loose/hanging 2-pin female connector laying around in there that we cannot see in your photograph?

Click on the photo to enlarge it or open link in a new window...>>>

 

Something else that still has me puzzled and is bugging me, is why won't the machine boot with the set chip?  :103-

I've already asked about BV units on S machines, but did those machines even have a EEPROM? I though there was no motherboard on a S machine.

What I am getting at is that if a RS chip does not even support a BV in the code (or use a EEPROM) perhaps the EEPROM on this new motherboard is bad. The S+ MPU with a RS chip would not error out (bad eeprom) if the RS chip isn't even trying to talk to it. However, the SET chip would probably not boot if it was bad. But if the RS chip doesn't use ithe EEPROM, then it doesn't matter anyway.  :5-

Just another thought, and another reason I think it might be a good idea to see if the machine can be gotten up and running with a set of 'normal' S+ chips first.

There are so many variables and unkowns here.  :127-

I agree Poppo...maybe we need to go to Antigua! lol

I'd be pulling connectors and cleaning the crap outta them trying to
remove all the oxidization from the pins with contact cleaner spray.
I'm also suspecting horrible contacts with all that black tape and shrink wrap near the motherboard.
A cleaner machine at all contact points may give us better results and a functioning machine!

The board is a meter board and it does tick when a bill is inserted even though the credits don't show upon the machine. As for the 2 pin connector there is nothing I can see to plug into it. Keep in mind that nothing has changed on that side of things and it did work before the board change.

I am going to double check the lose pins and make sure there is no shorts.

Also I am going to try and find a different backplane to try out as maybe that is a bad e2 and that is why it wont boot with the set chip in.

Another member suggested this question.

Can you verify that the picture you posted (below) is a picture of the board that is in the working machine now, and that it's working just as pictured?

(http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14625.0;attach=38178;image)

Yes and yes. That picture is from the day I posted it (yesterday or the day before) and everything is working except for the ba as far as I can tell. I can drop a few coins in and it spins...

If the EEPROM was bad, the machine would give a 65_0 error (at least with standard SP chips).  But we are just speculating because of the odd configuration. The RS chip may not even be using the EEPROM.

Instead of swapping the motherboard again, why not just try a clear and set of standard SS and SP chips as suggested above? A lot can be determined if you go that route since it will then be a 'normal' S+ MPU setup.  

Heck, if you have a know good S+ MPU handy with any game already installed (SS and SP chips) , you could plug it in and check the BV. And it would let you know if the EEPROM was bad.

Before he does that, has anyone here ever tried installing a 3-reel SP/SS setup in a game with four reels and a 4-reel harness?

So your saying put in a different S+ board that has a ba and see if it works? I am used to s2000's so this might not be the case but won't that cause a mismatch error?

Forget all that for a minute.

The reason that I asked the previous question was just to verify that you were able to use the RS chip in the machine with that board and to be sure that you weren't showing us the old board from the back room.

However, after looking at that board more carefully I have a suggestion.

The RS chip is a 256k chip and your jumpers are properly set for a 256k chip. The SET chip is a 512k chip. Try the SET015 again, but this time move the jumper on E15 and E16 from the inner two pins to the outer two pins (E15 and blank). This jumper is located right above and to the left of the top of the Game chip socket. (The picture above is upside down, so it's below and to the right in the picture.)

Let us know if that works. Either way, don't forget to put the jumper back to the 256k position (on E15 and E16) when you put the RS chip back in.


StatFreak :31-

Why didn't I think of that? Oh wait... :72-

That seems like a great idea I will give it a try right now.

I would speculate that a 3 reel game would work fine because it would not be looking for the 4th reel. Unlike using a 4 reel game with a 3 reel setup where it would look for the reel and not find it, and error out.

But now we may be back to page 2 of this thread.  :96-

 :208- :208- :208-  Join the club. If I had a dollar for every time I told someone to do something and it went ignored, only to have someone else post the same directions later in the thread and be noticed and thanked, I could retire. :30- :30- :25-

I'm not so sure. It might behave that way if the fourth reel were disconnected but if not, I'd expect an error. At this point it's all speculation since we've never tried it.

The funny thing is, you answered the question in the next post.  :96-


Of course I missed actually using the info.  :25-

The board that SB spotted may need closer investigation


As Poppo suggested if this is a chip from a S machine it wont have built in support for a BV in the SW.

Before reading these last few post, I installed a RS 3280 chip on a S+ board. All I got out of it was stiff reels. NO display, no errors, no nothing. I pressed the test button and turned the key, nothing.

Reinstalled the SP and SS chips and still had my credits on the machine

Well switching the jumper had no effect. With the set chip in power on nothing happens. Bummer.


I had such hope.

Well, I still suggest using a clear and trying to set it up with a standard S+ game chip set. Process of elimination. We need to verify once and for all if a SET has anything to do with the problem. And TZtech seems to agree that a RS chip does not support a BV in software. If so, the set will do nothing. Only one way to find out for sure.

Even if the game tilted due to the 4 reels (which I doubt since people have gone as far as pulling the spare reel driver chip), it should get you far enough to use a SET to enable the BV and denomination.

Another option is to put this MPU and motherboard in another machine (with S+ chips) and get it up and running with a BV, then put them back in this one.

I really think the SET is a red herring, but I have been wrong before.  :5-

Aslo, due to Buzz's test, is it possible this is a 'special' S+ MPU that has been modified somehow to work with RS chips? Again, too many variables and IMO you need to use process of elimination.

I was just looking at that photo of the MPU.
I noticed that the 1st reel resistor has been changed.
Not that it has anything to do with the MPU not booting up
but the board DOES look almost exactly like a 10MHz S+ MPU !!!

I do not see any modifications to it at all.
There's not a whole lot of 4 reeler S+ reel chips floating around
so he's going to HAVE to make this RS chip work....Arghhh!!

Since this is a live casino in Antigua - why isn't there
any support for this machine through IGT?

In any event, I'd be swapping MPU's to try an set the
motherboard eprom via a SET chip to enable the BV then
switching back to the RS chip with
the reel chip socket jumper in the correct position.

I'd also be making sure the battery is fresher
than those 20 year old green and white battery in there...

There is one other mod Bunker. The stepper motor drivers have metal heat sink wings. I can't read the numbers from the picture, but I suspect that they are different due to the size of the stepper motors.

<ADD> The DUART is missing from U27/U18 (socket ID depends on the board), but it's used for serial communication and wouldn't affect the BV.

It's also not clear why the RS chip is currently working in the machine. I would be leery of doing a full clear or installing an SP/SS setup in that board, especially since Buzz's basic test of an RS chip didn't work. It's possible  that an RS chip might only work after a full clear (completely clearing the EEPROM and CMOS of any data structure which might be incompatible with the RS program.) However, what if that's not the case and he can't get the RS chip to work after setting up an SS/SP configuration?


If TZtech is correct and the RS simply won't support a BV through a normal setup, then the machine is already working as designed and the right course would be to investigate the extra board and how the BV communicates credits to the machine.

The "Ticking Sound" when he puts money into the BV signifies to me
that the small board behind the button deck is the relay itself -
clacking credits somehow to the MPU inside it's plastic case?

I trust TZ's statement in that the RS does not support BV's
However, that little board probably does what the S+ MPU's where
able to do later on board revisions -
that is, to be able to work with BV's.

That little board is a specially made IGT board which we've never seen.
Plus, NONE of us has ever even thought of trying a RS chip in an S+ MPU.

We're in un-charted waters here.
Since this machine is in a live casino - I'd be on the handle
calling IGT and talking to a support tech.

Go back and look at the original post, at that time the board had two chips installed (" SS055 Mech RS3050 ") now it has one.   :103- :103- :103-   Where did the SS055 disappear to ?   When I did my little experiment, I didn't have a SS chip installed.

Why was the original board replaced ??

He's missing the reel chip in all of the pictures actually.
One of the pictures, the board is upside down but still missing the reel chip.
I think Statfreak took it out while I was golfing!  :72- :97-

I do hope the reelchip is not laying on the floor somewhere...lol

Buzz, DID you put the RS chip into the SP socket or the SS socket?
I'm wondering.
This guys picture of the MPU and what's in the sockets is of so low resolution (fuzzy) -
I can't make out anything label-wise.

I just gave it a try with the RS 2380 and what ever the DDD SS chip is, same results, stiff reels and no display.

I'm thinking the IGT Man ( aka Ruden ) is having a ball.  or someone just like him ! 

Please don't tell me we're on a wild goose chase!!!?!?!?!?!
We have the capabilities of checking out his IP address right?  :72-

Bunker your talking to the wrong guy.  I just found out last week where the off and on button is on my PC.   

I do believe that  :212-


 :96-

My money is it's a loose wire in that red and white connector housing on that little board we're talking about.
We hear the "clicking" but that's it.
No communo with the MPU-oh...

No wild goose chase folks. My original post includes both numbers found on one chip. The pictures are from the board as it is now currently running in the machine.

The IGT board with the relay on it is a meter board and the ticking is the meter changing because a bill has been accepted. The board is operating as it should.

I can include a higher res photo of what ever you like all you need do is ask.

As far as IGT support goes they wont support anything older than s2000's these days. Also we are to small to get any real response.

okay good, is the machine running now?
If not, what exactly is wrong right now as we stand?

On a side note, the other night when I tested the SET chip without a reel chip, I put the original MPU back in and when I powered up the machine, my siren and strobe mod (using the bell circuit) went off as soon as I turned the machine on. I was  :103- for a while trying to figure out what was going on. It even did it with the MPU out. What had happened was the single wire connector I had on pin 2 (the switched ground) of the bell connector of the motherboard had not only come off, but had managed to contact pin 1 (24vac). I have no idea how it managed to do that since I was not even near that connector. The moral of the story is that it is not difficult to disconnect something accidentally just changing out a MPU. In this case the motherboard was swapped too. So no telling what may have gotten jarred loose in the process.

My understanding is the only problem (same as the very beginning) is the BV will take a bill, but not add credits.

It is running right now, all that is wrong is that it is stealing bills. And that started after the MPU and Backplane were replaced.

Exactly!

Both boards (the MPU and backplane) that are now in the machine are from the same game. One I had in storage and it also happens to be a 4 reel game but it is not equipped with a BA

Thus I expect that I need to enable the BA and set the Denom but my 15 set chip does jack squat when I tried it (multiple times with the jumper in both positions)

How about a picture of the coin-in mechanism. Maybe we can work this in reverse and see if there is some add on to simulate coins in.

I'm still willing to bet that a set chip has nothing to do with this BV and RS chip. As already noted it's taking bills so it's not relying on the MPU to enable it (i.e. let it take bills).

 :212-

Precisely. Let's stay on topic:

• There is no question that the RS chip works in this Big Bertha style S+.
• The specific SET chip didn't work in this machine and the RS chip might not support one.
• We don't really know if an older SET chip would work or not.
• We don't know for certain that the SET chip he used was good. (unless you can verify that it works in a regular S+, Mirage_Chaser)
  
• The machine credited bills before the MPU and backplane were swapped out.
• The old backplane was thrown out.
• Since the old EEPROM has been thrown away, there is no way to verify what was on it.

You didn't talk much about the motherboard (backplane). Are you sure that the replacement board was the same as the one removed?
Are you sure that you reconnected everything exactly as it had been connected before?
Where did you get the replacement motherboard from?  Did it come out of a regular S+? If so, then it's possible that there was a setting in the old EEPROM that is now missing.

I do believe he said he verified that.

We also don't know where those other 4 wires from the BV go.

we'll may never know about the original MB as it was hack-sawed in half and ditched into the garbage...along with the original 8-pin 24C04 eprom settings!  :25- :25-

I did try the set chip in a different machine and it worked as expected.

Pic of the cc (it appears unmolested)
and the donating parts machine

that's true I will give it a second attempt to track them down.

 :89-

Here is a question. After changing the motherboard and MPU, did you have to clear any errors? If so, what were they. Specifically did you get a 61? If not, then I would say the RS chip is not even using the EEPROM since a 61 is due to a mismatch of the EEPROM and the CMOS which you would have had after the swap.

That the RS might not be using the EEPROM occurred to me as well. It's still possible that the structure of the data on the EEPROM might affect the machine's operation. Heck, do we even know for certain that the old board had an EEPROM on it?

As long as we're looking at the swap, did you make sure that the DIP switches were set the same as on the old MPU board?

Is there any wiring from the special IGT board with the ticking relay and mechanical counter? In particular, perhaps there is wiring that goes from there to the coin-in optics or cherry switch to pulse credits onto it (making a SET chip moot).

From my playing around with my EEPROM mods, the chip does nothing unless it's being read to or written to.  In effect it's like it's not even there. Once a S+ boots up (with normal chips), you can actually remove it and the game will run fine until the next time it writes to it (i.e. every 100 pulls).

The 4 wires to the black Molex connector hanging down from the BV
could be for the signals that come out of the CashCode BV?
Should it be plugged in somewhere?
Maybe that's why it's eating the bills but not adding the credits?

Ok first, the backplane and mpu came from the same machine so there would not be a error when I brought them up because there is no mismatch, correct? How ever I do remember that when I initally when I tried to use the set chip it came up after I tried as if nothing had happened and when I tried today with the jumper changed it came up in a 61. Also I don't know if it makes a difference but to clear the 61 all I had to do was push the test switch and don't you normally have to key off a 61-1 error?

The wires go from the meter board into the BA harness and that goes to the connector on the door which was pictured earlier. As near as I can tell the wires for the cc and ba are seperate. And nothing has changed about that end of the wiring, remember this all happened after the MPU and Backplane was changed and that was due to a short on the backplane that fried both.

I thought I needed a set chip because after the swap we were never able to enable the BA. I realize that normally the setting enables the ba to start accepting but maybe because this is a cashcode ba it is different.

I was wondering that too. Since a normal S+ has it's own meters connected to the motherboard, why would it need a separate meter for the BV unless the RS chip does not support a BV (as already somewhat confirmed). So it would make sense to use the same meter board to also drive a coin-in simulator. There seems to be quite a bit of circuitry and wires on that meter board just to drive the meter.

That is why I wanted to see a picture of the coin mechanism and the wiring going to it.

<ADD> I'm inclined to agree with knagl and poppo. It seems more and more likely that the extra board is involved in crediting the machine.


Is it possible that the short damaged more than the motherboard and the MPU?

Can you give me the make and model of your CashCode.
I can try and do some searching for info on it.

I'm surprised that IGT didn't offer support for your machine because I really
don't think there was a huge production of these beasts?!?!

Yes it also blew some darlington transistors on the reel driver board. It all stemmed from a reel problem which caused a 49 that we couldn't clear and we found that part of the backplane was melted and so we changed it out. That solved the 49. The MPU wouldn't boot at some point but I can't remember if it got changed before or after the backplane, might have been at the same time.

Keep in mind wiggling and jiggling wires in one place can often cause problems somewhere else. Just like the example I gave a little while ago. I was nowhere near that bell connector, but yet it got disconnected.

And Stat brings up a good point that something else may have also gotten cooked.

Still...we need the output signals from the CashCodeBV...that's where the money goes in.

Maybe that particular wire for the output signal is loose somewhere
after swapping out stuff after the fire.

Like I said earlier, we need communication from the BV to get credits.
Stick a $20 dollar bill in there and strobe the output wires from the BV.
If the signals goes to the small board, then locate the output
from there by strobing wires off of that too.

We need to find the output signals whenever a eaten bill is accepted.

odel of your CashCode.
I can try and do some searching for info on it.

I'm surprised that IGT didn't offer support for your machine because I really
don't think there was a huge production of these beasts?!?!
[/quote]

I couldn't find much model information it just says Cash Code and ruble ready. But a while ago I looked online and found a manual based on looks alone from their website

The other thing that bugs me is:
Why the heck did IGT install an RS chip into an S+ MPU?  :103-
Did they NOT already have 4-reelers programmed yet into S+ software in 1988 ?

Anyways,
if you BV is eating bills, then I'd go back to the root of the problem and follow it from there.
Maybe the output credit pulse signal is shot but only the meter pulse is registering?

Like I said, pretty much un-charted waters we're surfing here...

I'm confident we will get to the bottom of this and get your machine up
and running the way it should!

BTW Do you have a spare Cashcode to swap with?
See if the spare BV also "eats" bills too.

This is from page 26 of the manual Mirage_Chaser uploaded:


The pinouts for the Gaming model (#2, 12v) can be found on pages 27 and 28.
Pins 5 & 6 of the 6-pin connector enable and disable the validator. However, since the BV accepts bills and counts credits on the extra board, it must already be enabled.

The 18 pin cable has the data lines.


From page 31. Here's where we hit a snag. The manual doesn't tell us which DIP switch settings go with which protocol so we can't verify the current protocol by checking the switches.  :37-

Were those bare wire receptor pins in that picture I highlighted earlier touching?
Could have disabled the CashCode output pulse for credits?

And none of the protocols appear to be IGT compatible, so there must be some conversion process. Of course there is the 'isolated pulse' mode which would be the easiest to implement.

IGT does not always take the easiest route.... :72-
After all, they're the ones who stick RS chips into S+ boards!!!  :208-

The picture is misleading there was just the very top of one pin exposed and I went and pushed it back in. I will try a bill just to verify that it is still no go.

Any chance you can get your hands on the Cashcode software manual or otherwise figure out which protocol the validator is currently using?
Personally, I'm hoping it's pulses. :96- :5-

Nope still no go. But now I noticed that regardless of the status of the machine e.g. the door is open the acceptor will still accept.

I wonder if that manual is even accurate for that BV. It mentions memory sticks for updating, which I don't think even existed when this thing was probably hobbled together.

The only hint I have is one of the dips is set to slow pulse. We have very little info on those ba's.


Oh it does have a place for memory sticks. They are similar to simcards and that is how you upgrade for new bills and the like.

<Add> I don't know how long the giant machine has had an acceptor I have only been at this casino for about six months and the last time I saw any machine that old before that was at least in 2002

There's a good chance that this BV was added long after the machine was built. Still, the manual is dated 2009, which is much more recent that I would have expected. :128-

Just to throw into the mix to further confuse things, going back to this post (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=14625.msg125329#msg125329), he said that "half" of the wires from the bill acceptor go to J6 on the fixed motherboard inside the machine.  I don't have any schematics handy -- can anyone confirm what J6 would be used for?  (This might give us a hint as to whether the machine is configured to accept bills like a traditional validator or if it has been hacked in using pulses to add credits.)

I'm too tired to look at them tonight. If no one else posts I'll check tomorrow.

I already had looked at that earlier. J6 is the BV I/O plug. But looking at the schematic, it could still be set up to pulse since the MPU part is similar to the coin in. And it's even possible that the old motherboard was modified somehow. If a RS chip does not support a BV, then it would not be looking for a signal on that line. Unless it was 'special' version of the chip designed to do it (and also to work in a S+ MPU).

In any case, I already suggested what I would do. So until certain things can be confirmed IMO we are just spinning our wheels and getting nowhere.

 

Someone over on the Slot Tech Forum replied (here (http://forums.delphiforums.com/slottech/messages/?msg=9121.1)).  He said, "you will need set chip 5. remove the game chip and place in the set chip. power game up. set the denom, then you will be able to enable the BV. power game down and replace the game chip and you are set to go."

Anyone have a SET 5 ?

If that SET does work, I would still be interested in knowing how the CashCode BV is communicating with the MPU. Is it as simple as pulsing the 'Bill Accp In' line?

One problem I see is if the BV is already taking bills (even with the door open) , what happens when someone puts a bill in when the game is in play. On a standard setup the BV is disabled during play. Would it just eat your bill?

It would seem to me that it would, poppo.  On the other hand, the odds of that scenario happening are pretty slim.  Possible, but slim.

That's good news... a set chip 5 would be a start anyhow. But I have a question. If the MPU and the backplane are from a machine that uses a 15 set then shouldn't the 15 work regardless of the machine its in?

No.  The SET chip required is typically based on the SP (or in your case, it would seem, RS) chip in use.

For example, on my typical S+ machine, a SET 15 will work for some SP chips, but will be incompatible with others.

(That said, I would have expected the machine to do something when you put your SET 15 in there earlier, but who knows...)

I am 99.99% sure that I have a set 5 if it is needed and will help....

CaptainHappy :95-

I would think so. As I mentioned earlier, IMO a SET should always boot. Even more so if the motherboard and MPU came out of a machine that it previously worked in and a different SET has not been used on it.

<edit> I want to define the word 'work'. Work = makes setting changes that work with your SP. Boot up = at least get a display and some options to change.



I agree that the settings it provides may not work, but it should boot up. I've also used the wrong set chip before and it let me make changes, but they just didn't work with the game.

Agreed -- that's why I said that I expected that it should have done something, but again, who knows -- this isn't a typical S+ machine, either.  :89-

I think that I will need it in any case, even if there is a problem with this MPU backplane comination.

I think that there is likely a problem with the MPU or backplane because it wont boot with the 15, but on the other had the machine is working excepting the ba.

Where have I seen that before? :128-  Oh yeah... :97-





I also may have a SET005, but it's untested.

Looking at the PSR for a SP611 it says:


I mention this because on later SP chips it says the set chip is required to set the denomination.  I wonder if the RS chip being even older than the SP611, can also have it set in self test.

Of potential interest to anyone who was following this thread, I learned a little from a tech over on the Slot Tech Forum site.  We had been calling this beast of a machine a "Big Bertha," but a Big Bertha is actually smaller than this thing.

From that site:

 :214-  So, in order of size:

• S+ Cruise Ship Cabinet
• S+ Upright
• Mini Bertha
• Big Bertha
• Colossus

Also, for those who hadn't looked closely at the EPROM in the machine in question, notice the handwriting:

(http://i51.tinypic.com/1z5r829.jpg)

:209-

Kevin,
Thanks for sharing that over here! :244- :259-

CH :95-

Yes that's what we call it around here but I wasn't sure if that was just our name for it. So I have been looking and I can't seem to find a set 5. Did someone actually have one that I might be able to get?

Ahhh so I found the set chip 05 and gave it a try. It did not boot and after I put the game chip back in it came up with a 45 that won't clear! And no matter how hard I look I just can't find the fifth reel. I guess I will have to try and track down a different MPU and Backplane to test.

Any Ideas?

Might try pulling the CMOS out and then put it back in. That sometimes will clears some errors.

Did you change that jumper again when you tried the SET005?

Yeah I figured it was just a ram error.

I did try the jumper in both position just in case and still no go. I am looking for a different MPU now.

If that doesn't work, you may try putting the MPU in a different machine and see it it will boot with the set. Might have a bad EEPROM on the motherboard.  I think we already metioned that.

Well clearing the ram didn't work... the 45 wont clear and I am hesitant to try the set 5 in a different game or in a new board for fear of doing damage. I will have to try a different mpu and see if the 45 goes away or if it is somehow caused by a flaw in the backplane.

Does anyone know if the set chip procedure is different on a s verse s+?

Do you mean a S MPU or just that you are using a S chip? Because when you use a set chip in a S+ MPU, it doesn't even know what game you are using. Using the wrong set chip may result in the game not working right, but the MPU should always boot with the set chip.

The board that I am using doesn't react to the new set 5 or my set 15. I got a different board same assembly number and it also doesn't react to the set chips. I know that the 15 works because I tried it in a different machine.

That is why you need to try those MPUs in another machine with the set chip. If the EEPROM on the motherboard is bad, it won't boot. Don't you have a spare machine somewhere?

I tried them in our test rig

Check it out

And they worked? If so, pull the EEPROM off the motherboard board of the tester and see what happens. I see it's in a socket.

a suggestion...
I am not sure what kind of paper work you need to fill out to perform a Clear?
I'd Clear the MPU with a Clear chip and start all over with a SET chip.
The SET chips may not work if there's credits on the machine...
I could be wrong because no one in their right mind
would put RS chips in an S+ MPU to begin with...

Also, why aren't there any lights on in the display panel on your stepper tester?
Let's see a photo with the power switch on please?
It helps no one to see a machine with the power off!!!
If you don't want it - I'll Paypal ya a $100 bucks for it!

I agree. The motherboard and MPU have already been replaced, so any accounting info stored is already lost. If the clear fails then it would really indicate that the EEPROM is bad (which would stop a set chip from booting).

Credits are automatically cleared when a set chip is used. Self test settings need them cleared though.

For what it's worth, the game didn't appear to boot with the SET15, either, although you know that your SET15 is good.  (Of course, the SET15 didn't result in a Reel 5 Tilt, either.)

The standard clear procedure for a reel tilt is to open and close the door -- am I safe in assuming that you've done that without any success?  (I realize that there isn't a 5th reel and it shouldn't be kicking that error, period.)

With no game chip, reel chip or battery on the MPU, one must wonder if the tester will light up ???

First off the 45 was a bent pin... sorry my mistake, as soon as that was fixed bye bye went the 45. The game is now as it was when this started (working with coin only and stealing any bill that is put in).

I will try a clear chip but keep in mind that the game is working just with coin only.

The picture of the tester has a junk board and not related to what I am doing with this machine.

And no I tried both set chip's 15 and 5 in the test machine and it did nothing. I tried them again with a different MPU with the same assembly number and they both did nothing. And by nothing I mean to say nothing happened on the display and it responded to no inputs.

And as for the rs chip in the s+ board I looked around and found that we have a few (like 3) machines that are in operation with that setup, they all are the same theme so really it's just one type other than the colossus.

And it still will. Using the clear will only reset the accounting meters and any special options that are enabled with a set chip. I still don't think a set chip is needed for a RS chip since it does not appear that they supported BVs in the code. But in any case the clear will test both the eeprom and cmos. If the clear chip won't boot, then it's time to look at replacing the motherboard again.

Wait I missed that how do we know that they don't support BV's in the code? And when you say mother do you mean MPU or backplane? I have heard it both ways.

Just assuming that since S machines did not come with BVs (that were not kludged on after the fact) that there was no support for them in the code. A PSR for one would confirm.

Motherboard = what you are calling the backplane. It's what IGT calls it.

Right just clarifying as many people refer to the processor board as the motherboard as in PC. Though I agree I am trying to find out now if there is some modification that needs to be done on the motherboard to make the ba work, the one that is in the machine now came from a machine without a BA.

Were there any modifications done to the original motherboard that was in the machine?
Also, did this machine ever take bills previously and send them to the credit display?
If it did send credits to the display before, then the problem lies with the way the display receives the credits.

You last options are to follow the wires that lead to the credit display
from the aftermarket gizmo that's installed in that machine.
Check all wires for continuity and clean all the contact/pin points.

Since we know the coin counters are working - there's data signals going out of the BV to the meters.
You need to check the other data wires with a scope to see if any signals are coming out of the BV for the credits.

so...are you selling the unused stepper tester?

The machine took bills before and the credits did go to the display. There may have been modifications to the original motherboard I didn't happen to see it before the motherboard and MPU were thrown out. I have written to cashcode to see what they think and hope to have some luck there. Also it turns out that the BA is a vending ba and not a gaming be, that means in the very least it is sending information via a pulse. All the wires seem purpose run and there are no splices or iffy wiring.

Nope not selling and the board in the tester is unused not the tester its self.

A vending BV in a slot machine?!?!?

How many wires coming out of the Cashcode
and where are they specifically going to?
The display panel or the motherboard or the coin-in optic boards?

12 wires come from the ba, half go to j6 2 are power and another is ground also, I still am not sure about the last... I have been looking today. Any ideas what j6 is for?

the cc harness and the optic harness look untouched they seem to run as they should.

So to reply to my own post J6 is the bill acceptor harness

 :72- :72- :72- Good job!  :3-

Anyways, the S+ J6 Motherboard Header utilizes 6-pin.
I'm not quite certain if your harness has all 6 pins occupied?
Below is the J6 header schematics.
Click on copied photo to enlarge if desired...>>>

I noticed that on one of the earlier posts. But it's possible that the original motherboard was modified to jumper the BV pulses over to the coin in. Too bad you threw away the original board.

OTOH, I don't know for sure what a standard S+ BV sends to the motherboard. It may be 'pulse based' too. Looking at the schematics, the BV input circuit from J6 is identical to the coin in.

So on a S+ you use the set chip to turn the BV on. But yours is already on. And earlier, I posted a part of a PSR that said the denomination can be set in self test on earlier SP chips. So have you tried just going into self test and setting the denomination?

Also, when you go into self test on the RS chip, is there even a 9_0 or 9_1 (BV enable). These are viewable on a SP chip whether the BV is enabled or not (you just can't change it without a set chip). If there is no 9_X setting, then that would be further indicate that the RS chip does not support a BV in the code.

Do any of these have the same BV setup?

I was with Poppo on the posibility that this setup does not support a bv but it does seem to be using the official connector on the MB so I am changing my mind on this. Although electrically the interfaces may be the same the pulse train expected from the bv and the coin comp are not so its unlikely that the bv was tied to an optic input (Also in order for a coin to register all three coin optics have to be triggered in a specific sequence). The mystery board does not appear to have the logic do do such a conversion.

This would be a good idea to check. You can also check you input and input test to see if you are getting pulses from your bv (as its permanently enabled it should change status on note in)

Anyway if somebody could produce a PSR it would be great - At this point there is a lot of guessing going on.

Yeah, I can't believe that after like 12 pages nobody has a PRS. A PSR for any RS chip would probably help.

Ok I have some new information, first the cashcode acceptor is operating in pulse mode (which we kind of figured) and has only a 6 connector plug and only 4 connections are being used. The twelve pin connector going into the bottom of the ba housing is connected to more then just the ba. There are some unused lights and a second power supply for the BA.

Of the connector connected directly to the BA only pins 1-4 are being used. One wire must go to the meter board, that people keep calling the mystery board, as it increments. 2 are power and one must make its way in some form to the motherboard. In this mode the ba is not looking for the machine to allow ba use so it is enabled from as soon as it get power. I attached the file that I got the information from.

This still might leave us in the same place. Maybe I just need to enable the ba so the machine is looking for the pulse when it comes.

As for checking the setting please forgive my ignorance but in what form would the settings be displayed? For instance would the 9_1 setting be displayed as 9 in the credits played display and the 1 in the credits window? Or is that it should be 9 and 1 in both the same display window?

Also if anyone has any information on the meter board it might be useful the assembly number is 7690860

It looks like these CashCode BV's are in "vending" mode like the ones
used in soda machines and Cherry master games.

I think you need to follow that 4th wire and see where it's going to.
If it's going to the motherboard, report back what header and pin number it's attached to and located in.
That will give us a clue as to which signal line the motherboard is picking up the credits on.

To answer your other question for the self test numbers displayed... follow me here.
Each press of the little white test button should give you these numbers in the display panel.
You should have a zero in the Coins Played window and all the other windows blank
except for the "Insert Coin" window - it should be lit up.
If your display is initially displayed this way - you know there are no credits on the machine
and it is ready to accept a coin.
Here we go...>>>

1st press of little white test button= There should be a zero in Credits window and all others blank.
2nd press of little white test button= Two zeros in the Winner Paid window and a zero in the Coins Played window.
3rd press of little white test button= [5--X] in the Winner Paid window and a zero in the Coins Played window.

From this point here, you turn the reset key 4 times until you see a [9--0] in the Winner Paid window,
and a zero in the Coins Played window.
If it is displaying [9--0] then the BV is "Not Enabled".
You will need to change the value of the zero to a [1] in order to have the BV "Enabled" or "ON".
The zero signifying "OFF" while the "1" meaning it's "ON".
Is the "Spin" button lit up at this point?
If so, press it and see if the [9--0] value changes to a [9--1].
If it allows you to change that zero to a "1" - then leave it at that and get out of the self test options.
Whether or not an RS chip supports this with or without a SET chip remains to be seen.
If you don't even see a [9--X] anywhere in the self test options - then I'd say that the RS chip
doesn't support a BV and this whole contraption is getting credits some other strange way.

To get out of the self Test options, all you need to do is close the door
or press the test button intermittently until all the display windows go blank.

On a normal SP chip, you press the self test button a few times (it varies) and you will have a 0 on the coins played and a 5_X (X=0, 1 or 2) in the winner paid. Then turning the jackpot key will cycle through all of the page 0 options. The BV enable will show 9_X in the winner paid. 9_0 = not enabled 9_1 = enabled. But I don't know the procedure for a RS chip. That is why we need a PSR for one.

BTW, I have to ask, is there some reason you do not know how to check the settings in self test mode? :103-

I still think that 'meter board' does something else. As already noted, it has too much circuitry just to increment a meter. And IF the BV is going to the MPU (as a normal BV and not a kludge), why not just use the meters from the S+ MPU?

<edit> This time Bunker typed faster than me.  :96-

well that is definitly not what happens when I push the test switch

with the door open, a zero is displayed in the credits played window
with the first push of the test switch, zero in the credits played window and 1    1 in the winner paid window
with the second push of the test switch, 1 in the credits played window and 10   1 in the winner paid window
with the third push if the test switch, 2 in the credit played window and 10 in the winner paid window
with the fourth nothing in the credits played and 50 in the winner paid window and I tried to key it thinking that this might be the right menu option it just increments 50, 51, 52 -56...

I agree that the meter board must do more I think that both signal wires go there first.

As for my ignorance of the s+ style menu I have only been here for a few months and the last time I worked on a s+ before that was almost 10 years before because that is when we got rid of the last bank of them at my last job.

Keying [50] is the sound volume I think or probably the different sound "tones".
Pressing the "Spin" button will play the tones.

Go back and key [1--1]...that may bring you to the [9--0] options for the BV.

Well, it looks like a RS chip is different. Without a PSR, there is no telling what the settings mean or where to look.

Do you not have any spare S+ machines? I would still like to see what happens when you put that MPU with a set chip in one of them (i.e. if it boots or not). At this point there are still way too many variables. Could be a bad MPU, could be a bad motherboard, could be a bad 'meter board', could be a bad BV, could be just about anything (especially since something smoke checked to begin with).

If you had a spare S+, and get the MPU to boot with the set, you could then enable the BV, set the denomination and then put that mother board in the machine that is acting up.

Or even take this motherboard out and put in in anther machine temporarily and do the same and then put it back. The fact that none of the set chips are booting tells me something is wrong between the MPU and motherboard.

Did you ever try a clear chip?

I can change nothing in the [1--1] menu, the key switch and buttons don't seem to change anything
the next two the [10--1] turning the key switch increments the 10 and the one changes between 0 and 1 with different first numbers
and[10---] the keyswitch increments the 10 on both options the values go to 44 or 46

The casino I am at doesn't have psr's for any games. They must not have felt them necessary. :279-

I have other s+'s but as I know so little about them I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to get that one back into operation as the are almost all progressive. The MPU that is in the machine now is from a slant that just came off the floor and was accepting bills when it came off, but as the motherboards on those games are different I wasn't able to use it.

<edit> the MPU was changed yesterday.

I didn't try a clear as I was under the impression that it would only be useful to clear credits and accounting information.

Also there is no bill meter originally on the game so the meter board provides that and may do double duty as a ba interface.

The [10-1] are various tests and you're right about them going up to around 44-46 different tests.
Many of them check different things such as like coin diverter, solenoids and lights.

However, the "Spin" button is usually what activates the various tests once you're in them.
NOT being allowed to change the [1-1] option signifies to me that a SET chip is needed to get into the option to change the setting.

Utilizing a Clear chip as Poppo suggested "might" reset the whole MPU
and actually get your game up & running - accepting bills-to-credits...
It's definitely worth a shot at this point because your boss is too bloody cheap to purchase PSR sheets.


If I had a blinking idea of how the symbols are placed on your reel strips, I would have swapped the DBV for a JCM200, install proper, matching SP and SS chips and had that machine working weeks ago.

It does do that, but it also will check communication to the EEPROM and CMOS (since that is what it is clearing). If it doesn't work, something is wrong (most likely the EEPROM)

This thread is going on 13 pages. At some point you will need to start doing some sort of other testing. If there is no spare S+, or you don't want to mess one up, you can simply put the motherboard and MPU from this one in it long enough to see if you can get a set chip to boot. If it won't boot in another machine then the you need to determine if it's the MPU or the motherboard.

If it does boot, then I would be curious as to why it won't boot in the original machine. But at least you would be able to use the set chip to enable the BV and set the denomination (although I still think those settings are not used with a RS).

In any case, IMO we are just spinning our wheels until some sort of process of elimination is made.

Some elimination has been made it is unlikely that it is the mpu as I put in a known working one in yesterday

I will try the clear chip I have but there is no guarantee that it is the correct clear chip, I have 2 that are IGT clears but one is labeled 15 which I guess is supposed to mean it is a match to set chip 15 and the other just says IGT clear.

I will find a game to try the 15 in at least that should do no damage

You have a reader at the casino right?
( you should...after all, you have an unused slot stepper test machine... :30- )  :72-

Put the chip in the reader and see what the checksum number is!
Match the checksum # with the proper chip.

I think that our burner might do double duty as a reader but I won't be able to give that a try until tuesday it won't work with a 64-bit os and that is the soonest I will be able to bring my own pc in. I will try it and see if it works if not then I will have to try again on tuesday.

Okay, in the meantime - fill out your profile since you have nothing else to do.  :96-
Maybe an NLG member nearby can come help you out?  :129-
I'd fly out there and fix it for ya but your boss is too cheap and cannot afford me... :97-

Have a great weekend!! :89-

here's what information I can provide:  prior to SSXXXX  Igt did use the RSxxxx  id system for there programs.  According to their CN (change notice) information  they refer to the 055 as the version type, and the RS xxxx as the paytable/game type. these RS chips can be used on S+ games (according to the Bible,it has RS chip numbers as usuable for certain games) they had to be games like DD, RWB, Wild Cherry, etc. just like you can use SSXXXX chips on S-2000 games.
The "S" model did not support any type of BV, no motherboard, no eeprom, no set chip.  all information was on the RS chip,e.g. game type, paytable, diagnostic tests, etc. there was no input or output test for the BV (on S+ its #26 and #27)  on the "S" model those numbers are assigned as spares.
however, the "S" did support progressives, that denomination was set in the diagnostic tests , Test # 6, and as stated earlier, the "S" model did not require any special way to clear tilts, just press the white test button, that's all that was required to clear a 61 code.
PSR's didn't come into existence until July of 1994.
On ANY S+ MACHINE  that has a bill acceptor, there has ALWAYS been some type of interface board  between the BV and the motherboard. on the 145/200 that board is located inside the black power supply. On the WBA series, its inside the power supply , on the After Market systems, they mounted the board on the  backwall, what these actually do???  I have never looked into it. but none the less they are there and they do something.
I would trace the bill in /bill out wires from the plug on J-6 motherboard to where they terminate and then try and figure out where they are coming from and what information they are carrying.
the power supply gets a 115vac input from the machine, the data is transferred via the bill in and bill out signals via the interface board, I don't know what the +vb and the 24vac power goes to and what it is used for (J-6). I don't know what is done  by using the set chip? is that the validate signal? perhaps the set chip is only needed when a JCM system is used.
I would focus on where the bill in signal comes from and why its not getting the data into the board.

Jim
       

THANK YOU Jim for confirming what some of us have been trying to say from the beginning.  :89- So I think it would be safe to say the RS chip never even looks for an EEPROM or any settings made with a SET.

However, that said, since it is a S+ MPU, it still 'should' boot with a set chip because at this point in time (with just a set chip) there is no game or reel chip (and I confirmed a SET will boot without a reel chip).  So this might indicate some problem with the motherboard that may also be affecting why the BV does not work.

Might be a good isea to pull it out and inspect it again, especially around J6 (top and bottom). Whatever cause it to smoke in the first place may have done it again.
 

You got it! While you all were figuring out I tryied a different motherboard and was able to get the set chips to work! 15 works as it should and my new 5 gives a [62--0] error.
So with 15 in it was set [9--1] and so I figured I would try it now. So I connected the ba and and with the new motherboard and after the 15 set chip (though I am not sure that it did anything really now with all the info put forth) IT ACCEPTED A BILL! yay! It gave the wrong amount of credits but I found the setting 6 and changed it to a dollar and... it stole the bill. I was about to change it back but in my anger and smashing of buttons I put it in "credit" mode and it occured to me to try another bill and it worked again! So all I need to do now is lock it in credit mode (which it must have been before the board swaps) and I should be good!

So on that note anyone have an idea how to lock it in credit mode? I know I have a cheat sheet around here somewhere but I can't seem to find it right now.

Well, I'm glad you got it working. While I don't think the SET has anything to do with it, there aparently was something wrong with the motherboard.

I agree. Must have been.

Hey Jim any chance you know how to lock a machine in "credit" mode with an rs chip, just asking as you seemed to have more information then most on the rs games.

By credit mode do you mean wins going to credit instead of paying out of the hopper? The cash/credit button is a toggle. On a S+, the setting is that 5_x we mentioned earlier. You can set it to always go to credit or follow the cash/credit button (defaulting to one or the other).

On a S+, if you have it follow the cash/credit, it will go back to the default after a certain period of idle time as long as there are no credits.

So try removing all credits, then power up the machine and let it sit for a minute and see what it defaults to. It may be ok, but just got toggled.

I don't have any "S" machines in house, from memory, I don't think you can.  the way to check, enter the diagnostic mode,(press the white test button) as you advance to the input ,output, audio tests etc. you will see a 5_0, 5_1 or a 5_2 in one window,  the spin button should be lit, press it and see if the last digit will change, that's how it done on a S+, but from what I remember on a "S", it could not be changed, that's why they printed the directions for credit play on the coin play decal facsimile, "press cashout button for credit play"  you had to press this before play, the button would backlite and any hits would go to credit. if no action or plays ,after 30 seconds it would cancel itself and go back to the pay mode from hopper.


Jim

Yes that is what I mean. In this case if it is toggled to drop from the hopper as opposed to going to the credit window then the bill is stolen, when I toggle it to credit then the bill is accepted and the credits go to credit display. I am sure it is a byproduct of the way that this ba is connected but I remember being able to lock it in the credit mode and that is what I'd like to do now.

I realize that the ss and rs menus are different but I was hoping that knowing how to do it on a regular S+ would help me figure it out on the colossus.

Before all this happened this wasn't a problem so it must be set able. Keep in mind this is not a standard S.

it would stand to reason that if the option you want is not available in the RS data, then it must have been set up as a regular S+, the two chips associated with the S+ removed and the RS chip inserted for that game.

perhaps you can do that, you would need a SP and a SS chip to do this.  Don't know what infomation is contained in what chip. Don't know if you can get into the diagnostic modes with just a sp chip ?

that's the only way I know to change that 5_ option. 

did you try the RS diagnostic setting?

Jim   

It might be available and I don't know how to change it. I could set it up as a regular S+ I have spare chips but would that option carry over?

And I am sorry I am not familiar with the diagnostic setting. Could you enlighten me?

Ok when I toggle the credit mode on and off the relay on the meter board clicks, if I unplug the meter board and hit the cashout button the machine will add a credit to the machine, but only once. Pushing the button again with it unplugged just cashes it out. But if I plug it in and out again it will add another credit.

It is clear that this is more then just a meter board and it must affect the way that this system works.

rs diagnostic  tests (settings)   each time you press the test button it should go through the list of tests menus available.

input tests (10_1) winner paid window, output tests, (10) wpw, 50 audio tests, display tests, hopper tests etc,  hopper limits etc.
as you advance toward these tests you should see a 5_0, 5_1,  on the display. its' here you would change this option.


Jim

every thing is there except 5_0 and 5_1. The only 5 I see is in the credits played window and it appears to be a reel strip test.

that's what I was thinking, that's its not available on a RS  chip. 

its hard to remember all the items about a RS / "S"  machine. 

probably have to try and set it up using S+ chips and HOPE it will carry over.

Not much else I can add or suggest.

Jim

Ok, this has me a little confused. Because the cash/credit should only affect how wins are paid. But in this case it is affecting how bill credits are applied.

I have a few questions. If you have it set for credit and insert a dollar, it goes to credit correct? What happens if you insert another dollar at this point (before playing the game)?

On some S+ games one of the dip switches determies if bills go to credit or 'make change'. Perhaps it's one of the DIP switches set wrong.  But I don't know if S machines have DIP switches. Are these set the same way as the original MPU?

If a second dollar is inserted then it will add the credits so one becomes two. As for the dips they are the same as the original board as far as I know.

I think it is different here only because of the less then standard way this machine is setup.

Are you absolutely sure it did not work this way before the problem? Does the machine default to cedit mode?

No it defaults to cash and in a half an hour another tech that has been here longer will arrive and I will ask him. But I am fairly certain that this was not a problem before.

Well good news I figured it out, the first menu option [1--1] it the setting, switching between player choice (defaulting to cash) and credit only.

Thanks for all your help

Glad you got it working.

I think the big lesson here is don't assume a replacement part is good unless you have verified it. Espeically in a oddball machine like this.

Wow, finally resolved.  Great!   :3-  :3-

 :136-

You may want to confirm that you're able to put more than five credits in the machine, but other than that it sounds like you're back up and running!

You tried keying [1-1] earlier but it didn't work.
Now we know that MPU was no good.
I'd throw that headache as far away into the bushes as you can...  :96-
Glad you got it going.
Now ask your cheap boss if he'll sell me the Stepper Tester machine...  :72-

Mark   Joey has one, call HIM cheap and see how far you get !!     :208- :208-

I know...we tried to find harnesses for it...
Did he ever get it running?

Mark  He did, he had my 5 reel S+ board in it.  ( I bought another 5 Reel S+ )  Same game, Blue Thunder, White cabinet 31" round top.  Joey also has a test stand for Game King / I Game with a touch screen.  Sure makes it a lot easier.

That's why I built "Young Frankenstein" for testing S+ stuff here at work...
Makes it so much easier to swap and change parts around upstairs in a closed room
away from the hustle bustle on the live game room floor with nosy people peering in behind you over your shoulder...  :96-


"Does it work now?" is a line I wish I have 5 cents for every time I've heard it.
I'd have my own casino by now!  :72-