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What's your opinion of the bailout?  :5-

Here’s the question…

Now that the US passed the Bailout plan, what effect will this have on our economy and in-turn our real estate?

Looking forward to a great discussion…

 :40- :86-

I don't quite have the time to comment on this now, BUT, I had to say something. (the smileys actually said it all)

One comment I will say...With all the political jabs going on right now being election year and all, For anybody to make
a claim that taxes will not go up is smoking something. Republican, Democrat, or whatever, the BOTTOM LINE is WE,
THE TAX PAYERS will pay dearly for this and the other goings-on with the current state of the USA.

I agree SOMETHING had to be done but this is going to be SCARY!!!

I was totally against it,  now I'm stuck paying the bill for all the greed and corruption, does that make me "unpatriotic"?  Here's my take.

I remember when I purchased my home in 1992.  The purchase price was $120,000.00 and I had $20,000 to put down.  That would give me about 18% equity and a $104,000 loan (after closing costs).  At the time, I was single, with NO DEBT other than a $390 car payment.  I had no credit card debt that didn't get paid by the end of the month.  My income at the time was around $65,000.00.  It took nearly pledging my 1st born in order to qualify for the loan.  I literally spent well over 60 days trying to get the loan through.  I submitted 3 years worth of tax returns, about 6 months worth of bank statements, and put another $5,000 down to make my equity over 20%.  My payment at the time was around $1,200.00 (interest rates where in the 7's at the time), so the payment was less than 25% of my gross pay, which was then the "widely" accepted standard for lending.  This is what it was like buying home before the President Clinton and his brilliant idea to rework the Community Reinvestment act which was the original work of Jimmy Carter.  The Community Reinvestment Act was intended to encourage banks to help meet the credit needs of the communities in which they operate, including low- and moderate-income neighborhoods, consistent with safe and sound operations.

Well, in 1993, Bill Clinton didn't think the 17 year old Act was doing it's job, so our incredibly thoughtfull politicians decided to look into the effectiveness of this Act.  They found that loan denial rates for hispanics and blacks were nearly twice that of whites and Asians.  This did not take into account "other factors" such as credit worthiness, income levels, previous credit delinquencies, etc.  Just plain of statistical data.  Of course Congress was now on a mission to solve this "discriminator lending practice" and thus set forth on ways and means to allow more Americans the "right" to own a home.  How did they go about setting this up?

1.  Banks were told by the feds to IGNORE credit history, because in low income situation an extenuating circumstance could have cause the negative spot in their record and thus should not be viewed as a condition for not lending.

2. Down payment and closing costs.  This kind of thing can be a big barrier to people in low income situation.  Thus the banks should consider grants or gifts from nonprofit organization, municipal agencies, or loans from relatives as part of the down payment and/or closing costs.

3. Freddie and Fannie Mae would accept loans where banks could consider CHILD SUPPOT payments, alimony, social security, welfare payments, and unemployment benefits as source of income to qualify for the loan.

Then there was the provision were banks would be fined by the feds if they should not adhere to these guidelines, the liability for punitive damages could be as much as $10,000 in individual actions and the lesser of $500,000 or 1 percent of the creditor's net worth in class actions

So what happened, banks started lending money to individuals who previously did not qualify for loans under the traditional sold lending criteria and thus the "sub-prime" lending took off.  A big part of this was driven by the fact that a bank could underwrite hundreds of these "shady mortagages" package them together and sell them to fanny and freddie.  So the bank got fat off commissions and freddie and fannie took on all these loans which they would be sold in the open market to investors.  Property values skyrocketed as tons of people were buying properties (not to mention speculators buying properties with no down and then reselling for a hefty profit a few months later).  

How bad did this get?  In my office, we had a lady making $40,000 per year with a $1,000 mortgage payment.  She then went out and purchased a 2.5 MILLION dollar apartment building as an investment and she closed the deal in TWO WEEKS!!

And now we are here, all those sub-prime mortgages which were originall sold as interest only loans for 5 years with big ballons or adjustments after that are now defaulting.  So now we have a glut of foreclosed and abandoned homes everywhere.  Banks don't have money to lend because they are writing off BILLIONS in bad debt as people are UNABLE to pay for the mortgages THAT THEY APPLIED FOR.

So that leaves us responsible people out to dry, having to pay through our taxes and investments, ALL THE BAD DECISIONS that:

1.  People who couldn't really afford a home, shouldn't have bought one.
2.  Speculators who took advantage of the situation and bought/sold time and time again sending prices soaring through the roof artificially.
2.  Politicians that get involved in a system that WAS working and now is broken.
3.  Banks who took this to a new level as their commissions for lending exploded through the roof increasing profits and stock prices to unprecedented levels.

In the end it was a matter of personal responsability, those who bought homes that they couldn't afford, banks who underwrote loans that under solid financial guidelines would not have been written, and Government sponsored institutions like freddy and fanny who bought these bad loans with no regards to their viability as a performing asset.

If the Federal Government stays out of our business we DO better, but somehow or another, the Government believes that it is a "RIGHT" to own a home, where I was raised that it was a reward and a privilege for working hard and making the right choices.

Here's a comical yet somewhat insightful look at the issues.

http://www.youtube.com/v/5OtKt3ezHY0&hl=en&fs=1 (http://www.youtube.com/v/5OtKt3ezHY0&hl=en&fs=1)

The way I see it is We should have never been in this situation in the first place....   :25-
That being said I certainly don't think the government should have steeped in and taken action.  :30-
I feel America is in for a tough time no matter what the government did.   :103-
On that note I am personally royally f*****.. I will probably never be able to buy my own house
I live with My in-laws so we don't own anything in our name besides a Car.   :99-
I need to start saving for a down payment in the neighborhood of about 100% of my mortgage.  :37-
My only salvation is My job it is in the medical field so I should be ok through all the ups and downs coming.

Ohh I made the Mistake and looked at My 401K last night I have lost about $5,000 in 2 weeks.  :25- :8- :25-

Fat Cats getting FFFFAAAAATTTTEEEERRRR by the day. Next life for is definatley a CEO for GE or AIG.


cheers


Ozzy

Yes...something a LOT of people "forgot" about...   :25- especially the ones with a lot of high risk investments  :30-

 :131- :131- :131-
if i comment i will truly be the northern rebel i have been nicknamed at times !!
my suggestion is remove all polltics from the forum ..it can only start a fight not worth fighting over !!
what will be will be .. one day at a time -there are thousands of sayings to just deal & ignore

unless your a u.s senator on this forum which would not surprise me  :97- :97- :97- :97- :97-
i suggest we keep politics off the forum .
my 2-cents

someone start a poll up ?? do we discuss pollitics or stick to our close group of friends
we have met online and in person and talk shop and keep it a family friendly place ??

because pollitics are not a friendly place

now how many times did i say no pollitics or imply  no politics ?? :97- :97- :97- :97- :25- :25- :25- :30- :30- :30-

rocket

Did I hear correctly this morning on FOX NEWS, a guy who was responsible for an 11 billion $$ loss in AIG was dismissed but is still consulting at a salary of 1 million $$ a month.
Just hope the other top Exec's at AIG enjoyed their $23,000 massages. 


cheers


Ozzy

This says it all !!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arq36mS4NR4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arq36mS4NR4)

 :30-  :30-  :30-  :30-  :30-  :30-  :30-  :30-

Luckily, we've got Sarah Palin to explain it for us. Ready?

"That's what I say that I like every American I am speaking with we're ill about this position that we been put in where it is taxpayers looking to bailout, but ultimately what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the healthcare reform that is needed to help shore up our economy, um, helping the, oh, it's got to be all about job creation, too, shoring up our economy and, and, putting it back on the right track; so health care reform and reducing taxes and reigning in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americans and trade... we have we got to see trade as an opportunity not as, a competitive, um, scary thing, but one in five jobs being created in the trade sector today, we we've got to look at that as more opportunity, all of those things under the umbrella of job creation, this bailout is part of that..."

Glad that's clear, then.

Thanks Op Bell.

Way to, um, to Sarah, oh, its... 'to go', ah, that is, um.. go there, Sarah. Bush couldn't have said it better himself!! ..No, really, he couldn't have. :30-

-------

Having watched the youtube video Joey posted, I now realize that I should have started a bank under one corporate name and then lent money my bank didn't really have to my other corporation to buy an established Las Vegas casino. That would have been sweet. Anyone want to borrow money from me that I don't have? Reasonable interest rates. Guaranteed to be less than 29.9% unless you're a day late with a payment..

Sorry, but I'm too sick and disgusted to enter into a serious discussion.

This sums up Ricks post

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=658_1222431921 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=658_1222431921)

WOW   :25-  :25-  :25-  :25-

IS all I can say...

Hmmm. I seem to have missed the bit detailing Alan Greenspan's responsibility for inflating consumer debt, and the bit about removing the financial regulations in 2001 that let Lehman Bros, Bear Sterns, AIG and the rest overextend themselves in an orgy of greed. But I guess it's just politics, it would be counterproductive to tell the whole story.

Folks,

I hate to say it, politics is politics. Neither choice is change. Both are same old – same old. The key is, who can lie the most, and get away with it. In other words, the best liar wins the white house. They both belong to the same “boys club”. Both have a dark passed, and corrupt friends. Neither are worthy of the job.

Mark

I have to agree.

Regarding the video above: that video is as one-sided as any I've ever seen. I'm not naive enough to buy into this being a problem with a wholly democratic source. Clinton had to deal with a republican dominated congress for most of his term, and GW Bush also had a republican congress backing him for six of his eight years in office. What were the republican dominated congress and our republican president doing about this problem while they had power from 2001 through 2006? So now all of this is supposedly due to the Clinton administration and the democrats with no republican responsibility -- BullS@#T! 

Not that the democrats are any better. It's just that I'm sick and tired of all this finger pointing aimed solely at advancing one party's agenda over another's and at shifting the focus of the people away from what they don't want the people to see. More smoke and mirrors, people. We're only seeing half of the picture in that vid. It's what we don’t see on television -- backroom power struggles and the influence of the wealthiest families in America on government policy -- that really controls this country's politics and economic path.

Statfreak

I think you nailed it perfectly.

I think there is no choice to bail to them out! there needs to be more rules and limits to borrtowing money

This says it ALL......
Didn't we just bail out Citi Bank????
And this is what happen to the government money.
This is the old Shea stadium rebuild across the street. Look who got the naming rights. This make me sick.  :60- :60- :58-
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/nym/ballpark/index.jsp (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/nym/ballpark/index.jsp)
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/nym/ballpark/background.jsp (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/nym/ballpark/background.jsp)
If it's not the big three auto manufactures flying in their corporate jets to Washington to cry poor mouth, it's this kinds of sh :58- it that makes you wonder what the definition of Bankrupt is.

I have said it all along, it was not the sub prime mortgages that were the undoing. It was the lending of money to people who could not afford to borrow it.
Its the same mantra as I use as my tag line. If you can't afford to lose, you can't afford to win.
It took aproximately 18months to get into this mess, it will take no less than that to get out.
Bad loans were sold in bulk from one lender to another lender under the "safe harbor" term dubbed Mortgage Backed Securities.
Even here in Canada, where you need a signficant down payment for your home you could invest in safe "Mortgage Backed Securities". Who knew the Canadian banks were
buying these securities from US banks. Its hit every country in the world. I actually admire the person who thought this up but OUCH !

Bailing out corporations is not the answer. I liked congress'es message - come back with a plan on how to re-org into a sustainable entity and we will lend you some money.
Unfortunately with companies like Citi-Bank, GM and such they have such huge workforces and even in a re-orged state they will be much smaller, perhaps even consolidated and that means fewer jobs. Fewer jobs = Fewer people who can pay their mortgaves = and so forth and so on.

The focus needs to be on Job Creation, jobs that add to the gross domestic product. Saying you are going to take 800 layed off factory workers with union mentalities and think you are going to retrain to be entuperial high tech workers is a pipe dream. At best you will endup with 800 call center workers trying to flog Chinese made goods. Just like lawyers this adds no value to our GDP.

My proposal would be to re-invest into the national infrastructure, its a mess. I saw something on 60 min about all the nations bridges that are in disrepair - you need a lot of steel workers, welders, etc. If you want to clean up the environment, get serious and build a nationwide hybrid road system. Who wants a car that can only go 100miles before refueling especially if there is no refueling stations that can do rapid recharge. If you could put in a national system you could sell millions of hightech cars... and someone would have to make these millions of cars. This in iteself will spin off other high tech enterprises. There is a lot of desert around Vegas that is just itching to be solar farmed.

Free market Capitalism is what built this country and made it strong.  :137- Capitalism guarantees that businesses that can no longer turn a profit with their current business models (i.e. G.M., Ford, Chrysler and others) must retool, allowed to file Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection, or go out of business.  No amount of Capital thrown at them by the tax payers are going to save any business that has a failed business model.  :30- The ONLY way to save the Big three auto-makers is to DENY them any Tax Payer Bailout, and force them to change or file for bankruptcy!

Allowing the Government to get involved will only succeed in destroying these companies and pave the way for a Socialist Regime!
I am so sick of finding out how absolutely ignorant and destructive our so called representatives are to the very fabric of our Free market Capitalistic society!

You want Jobs created? You must LOWER tax's!!!  Business relocate to places were they can be more profitable. Places with the lowest possible tax base. Raising Tax's drives away business, and INCREASES Unemployment!
More Jobs mean Less Unemployment and MORE MONEY injected into the economy!
Eliminating the Capital Gains tax will also go a long way to help boost our economy.

Government needs to stay out of the private sector and allow the Free Market to work!  :139-

We all need to pray that our Representative in Washington wake up and see the light before it's to late!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!  :137- :137- :137-
 
 

Up to $7 trillion pledged as of today...

BOHICA!!!!!!111one11!!eleven!!1!

Well guys,

When I've lost it all, and can't feed my family (which won't be long now). I'm going to the unemployment office in a limo full of sparkling' wine and a full bar. I'm not going to ask for a fraction of my salary, I'll ask for a few billion. Once the government has granted me my two billion, I'm going to get a nice room in a fancy hotel, invite a bunch of my friends, and get everyone a $100 dinner, then hang out at the pool for a few months. After that, I'm going to trade in my 13 year old car with 200 thousand miles on it, and buy a few expensive foreign cars (To heck with the American Auto Industry). Then I'll move in next to one of these CEO's and stop cutting my lawn, have loud parties, and let the paint chip off my house.

I won't feel bad about blowing all that free money, because its what all these CEO's are doing with their bailouts. I think its time for us blue collar workers to get our bailout of having to pay for their corrupt and unethical lives these CEO's are living. They are absolutely unworthy.

Since my retirement it absolutely useless now, and my house isn't worth a dime, I want my bailout too.

How much do we get? Oh wait... We get to do the "patriotic thing", and make sure the CEO's of banks and auto industries, keep their golden retirements and high maintenance life styles.

I'm sorry for being graphic here, but I'm sick to death of these FAT CATS thinking they are worthy of this help.

All these CEO's private jets, multimillion dollar homes, and other assets should be all sold off FIRST. Once they seem to be living a reasonable life style, then lets talk company bailout. Until then, THE BANK IS CLOSED!

But, what will really happen is, since the politicians and CEO's all sleep together in the same beds, they will take care of them, and leave the General Public out in the cold.

yeah....it sucks :8-

I think Pres Bush should go out in style....

1.  He should resign immediately.

2.  That would make Dick Cheney the President. 

3.  Cheney should appoint Condoleeza Rice his Vice President. 
(Acutally this would have been a better choice than Palen).

4.  Cheney should then resign two weeks later.

5.  That would make Condi Rice the President, making HER the first Black
    President and the first woman President. 

Sorry Jay, She's too far down the list.
Check out the actual current presidential line of succession, as specified by the Presidential Succession Act of 1947 (3 U.S.C. § 19)
Shes number 4
Here is the order
#              Office                                        Current Officer
1 Vice President and President of the Senate Dick Cheney
2 Speaker of the House of Representatives    Nancy Pelosi
3 President pro tempore of the Senate         Robert Byrd
4 Secretary of State                                   Condoleezza Rice

I believe Jay is correct, the rules of succession only apply if there's no succesor.  So if the succeding VP nominates his VP replacement, then the new VP would have the presidency in case the other one should become "un-available."  But I do agree with Jay, I've been a longtime admirer of Ms. Rice for the longest time, one of the most intelligent woman in the politcal arena in my opinion.

Found this on Wikipedia.
"Two months after succeeding Franklin D. Roosevelt, President Harry S. Truman suggested that the Speaker of the House and the President pro tempore of the Senate be granted priority in the line of succession over the Cabinet so as to ensure the President would not be able to appoint his successor to the Presidency[1] (the Secretary of State is appointed by the President), whereas the Speaker of the House and the President pro tempore of the Senate are elected officials."

Hey I am Canadian..... I was just going for the lets P*ss them off factor.

Some what funnier than getting Laura to short sheet the beds. Rumor has it that Bush Senior did this to the incoming Clintons... although I can't really beleive that they didn't have all the furniture and linens changed.

sinking     :104- :104- :104- :104- :104- :79-

If these guys (GM,Ford,etc..) go down, I guess we'll all be driving something different in a few years...I wonder what though :5-


ADD>> we lost the shoutbox?

Anyways, Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

It would be an intersting scenerio. An American Car may then go UP in value as it would become a rare beast.
People in China would be importing them to get a Classic....  :72-

I'm sorry - against my better judgment, I can't let this pass without comment.


It's not taxes that are causing the problem, least of all Capital Gains tax, the reduction of which has done a lot to make things worse. The problem was deregulating the financial markets and expecting the beneficiaries to behave with decency and restraint. What happened instead was they turned into a tank of pihranas, with junk bond kings like Milken creating money for leveraged hostile takeovers, the borrowed money being repaid by asset-stripping the victims and shutting them down. That was just after a time of rapid inflation that often made company assets like land and buildings worth more than 51% of their nominal share value. So companies became extremely nervous about falling stock prices, leading them to sell off assets themselves, close plants, reduce wages and workforces and export American jobs overseas to cheap labor areas. It also led to executives being paid mainly in stocks, just to make sure they concentrated on the important things first. What we've seen is the stock market double and double again - that's f*ing INFLATION, not wealth creation - while standards of living have fallen for nearly everyone. Manufacturing companies now employ less people than the government, and no company dares invest in anything long-term that threatens their quarterly profit figures.

It's not a financial bail-out we need to save our asses - it's manufacturing, which is true wealth creation. But we don't have either the plant we need, nor the skilled people to run it any more, and it will take years to restore it. If the markets won't invest for the long term, and we've seen that they won't, then we need to give them some encouragement, and I'm afraid the kind they need is a rope round their necks and a big stick behind them, with a few decaying corpses left hanging on the gallows as an example to the rest. And possibly some government investment, which does work when it's run by people who believe in it instead of by political appointees who hate everything it stands for. This country was never so rich and successful as it was in the 50s and 60s when the government was paying for cold-war related research into electronics and the space program. You're only able to use this forum today because US taxpayers paid for the fundamental technology behind computers and the internet. If you think the free market would have done that, you must be crazy. They would have looked at the investment required and the time to market and laughed.

I got this in an email and thought I'd post it here.
Thanks,
Wayne




> This puts a little different spin on what differentiates a domestic from
> an import.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> THE NORTH AMERICAN AUTO DEALERS AND MANUFACTURERS ARE IN  A DIFFICULT
> POSITION – THIS REPRESENTS OVER 3.5
> MILLION JOBS IN NORTH AMERICA …….IT IS TIME TO RALLY !
>
>
> LET EVERYONE KNOW
>
> For the record... Ford, Chrysler and GM's contributions after 9/11
>
> An interesting commentary...You might find this of interest:
>
> CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford and GM's
> contributions to the relief and recovery
> efforts in New York and Washington .
>
> The findings are as follows.....
>
> 1. Ford- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions
> of the same number plus 10
> Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also offered ER response team
> services and office space to displaced
> government employees.
>
> 2. GM- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions
> of
> the sam e number and a fleet of
> vans, suv's, and trucks.
>
> 3. Daimler Chrysler- $10 million to support of the children and victims of
> the Sept. 11 attack.
>
> 4. Harley Davidson motorcycles- $1 million and 30 new motorcycles to the
> New York Police Dept.
>
> 5. Volkswagen-Employees and management created a Sept 11 Foundation,
> funded initial with $2 million, for the assistance of the children and
> victims of the World Trade Centre
>
> 6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross.
>
> 7. Audi-Nothing.
>
> 8. BMW-Nothing.
>
> 9. Daewoo- Nothing.
>
> 10. Fiat-Nothing.
>
> 11. Honda- Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in
> August 2001
>
> 12. Isuzu- Nothing.
>
> 13. Mitsubishi-Nothing..
>
> 14. Nissan-Nothing.
>
> 15. Porsche-Nothing. Press release with condolences via the Porsche
> website.
>
> 16. Subaru- Nothing.
>
> 17. Suzuki- Nothing.
>
> 18. Toyota-Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001.
> Condolences posted on the website
>
> Whenever the time may be for you to purchase or lease a new vehicle, keep
> this information in mind.
> You might want to give more consideration to a car manufactured by a North
> American-owned and / or North
> American based company.
> Apart from Hyundai and Volkswagen, the foreign car companies contributed
> nothing at all to the citizens of the
> United States ...
>
> It's OK for these companies to take money out of North America, but it is
> apparently not acceptable to return
> some in a time of crisis.
>
> I believe we should not forget things like this.  Say thank you in a way
> that gets their attention..
>
> BUY YOUR NEXT VEHICLE FROM GM, FORD OR CHRYSLER.
>

Is it true that Ford is going to build a 400,000,000.00   Plant in Mexico whould that mean our bail out money would go to Mexico :103-

Your government already said that if they gave them money it was for use in the U.S.  I am in Canada any my government is looking at giving money for the Canadian operations. (10 billion)

Thanks,
Wayne

Did they realy mean it how do they track the money I am not saying that is bad for the company but i dont want to pay for it  I was told by an old timer 40 years ago he might not see it in his time but, I would the higest paid employee standing in the unemployment line. I took my car to firestone to get a check motor  lite looked at they told me it would cost 89.00 + the repair I went to an advance auto supply it was free how can they do that for free. We have to be honest both company and employee  :103-

Wayne,

The problem with dumping money into the Canadian Operations is that their profitability was based on our 65c dollar back in 2000-2004. You pay an AutoWorker 30/hr. The Canadian guy is really making $19.50 based on the controlling currency. At Par $30 is $30. I am not sure if the 80c dollar will either hold or if it is enough to attract the near-shore investment from the US. The second problem with the equation is that more than 70% of the Canadian production was destined for the US and there is already surplus inventory.

To camp onto OpBells comments, someone once commented to me about the US spending on the Mission to Mars during the financial crisis following 911 and the Iraq war. It really equated to Job Creation for the Aerospace industries of Lochead Martin and Boeing who are some of the largest contractors on the NASA projects. I thought it was brilliant. Handing out cheques to people who didn't need them was good PR but didn't really stimulate the economy like they needed.

The money being invested in the big 3 would be better spent lending to companies like Las Vegas Sands (LVS) to complete many of its building projects that create jobs before and after. Make it a 70 year secured loan at 1%. Dumping money into a company that builds cars that no one wants, in an unsustainable business model is not going to do anything but stave off the grim reaper. They need to consolidate, retool, and create a new an innovative product that is wanted and needed.

Here in Canada we would be better off re-investing in Bombardier and AirBus to create products that are world class that people wanted to buy, and hiring the work force that was held by Ford, GM, etc. Or perhaps funding the startup of a Canadian built car company from the ashes of the mothballed plants. For instance we could put in a decent light-rail system into Toronto, build the infrastructure and rail cars in Canada and get people off the 401, 402, and 410. It would be good for the environment and lower medical bills (that road is brutal).

It really equated to Job Creation for the Aerospace industries of Lochead Martin and Boeing who are some of the largest contractors on the NASA projects. I thought it was brilliant. Handing out cheques to people who didn't need them was good PR but didn't really stimulate the economy like they needed

When the projects are announced and take place it may seem like "why" but years later the benefits from the research comes to the public, such as the Fax Machine the Air Force had these in the 50's for flight plans and such when my father was just enlisting, or more modern, the satellite network in space, No GPS, TV Broadcasting, Communications, Weather Forecasting,  NASA seems like just a hobby shop for some big time dreamers with wild ideas, but I am sure we really don't know the true mission of some of the projects, 15 years ago some friends teased this man who everyone thought was a nut that worked at a military shooting range that told us about a gun that could shoot someone that was hiding behind say a tree, a few months ago a gun was demonstrated on a military show that did the exact thing, be it heat tracing or what it was the same thing everyone laughed at as impossible, so what we think is useless research today may be tomorrows technology for survival

Since they're a parts store, not a shop, they don't have any of the overhead a shop does. Nor is the pay they give their counterpeople anywhere near what the shop is paying their techs.

I'll bet they pulled a code and said a certain part was bad based on the code, without bothering to run any of the tests needed to verify the part was bad. They'll get lucky some of the time, but when it winds up being a wiring issue, like a bad ground somewhere or the PCM is bad, what will they say to you? :138-

"Sorry, I guess that part wasn't bad. Take it to a shop and pay them to find out what's wrong and fix it."  :103-

They won't do anything about the money you spent with them, either, because electrical parts aren't returnable, and they didn't charge you for the diagnostic. Just like a casino, you pays your money and you takes your chances. :71- :71-


Meanwhile, everybody is running to the auto parts store to fix their cars, and the honest shop owner is losing money and closing up for good. When you run across an issue the parts store can't figure out with a $60 scan tool in the parking lot, where will you go? :25-

I have no problem with the government investing in Research and Development projects like they did during the cold war. They did that to build up our Military advantage and we did benefit from the products and services that resulted from that research. I do have a problem when they get involved in and interfere with free market businesses. If Businesses produce a product that people want and can afford, then they will survive and thrive. If the businesses cannot turn a profit, then why should the tax payers be responsible for keeping them in business?
The fact is we now live in a Global economy.  The wonderful business models of the past that guaranteed you a good pension plan and life time health care cannot survive in today's global market. That is one of the major problems of the Big three US automakers. Because of all of the pension and health care benefits they pay their employees, they have to add another $2000 on average to the cost of each vehicle they make to cover those costs, and those cost just keep going up.  They simply cannot continue to offer affordable vehicles with those restrictions.
Throwing tax payer money at it will not help it. They need to file for bankruptcy so that those contracts can be destroyed and re-negotiated to keep them in business.

As far as US manufacturing jobs go ... The only ones that will survive in the long run are those that involve highly skilled labor. With other Countries manufacturing goods using very low paid labor, we cannot compete with that. Yeah, that sucks, but that is the world we all live in now. The US government has no control over the world market.

I have owned both domestic and Japanese vehicles over the years. There is major differences in the quality of both. Don't take my word for it, just look at the differences in reliability ratings in Consumers Report and other publications. Year after Year the foreign owned car companies always fair better in quality and reliability.
By the way ... I currently drive an American Made Car ... It's a Nissan! Proudly built by American workers in Tennessee!  :137-

Happy Thanksgiving!!
 

Folks,

My first gut feeling about the foreign car companies "NOT" giving money into the American economy, or to assist with American interests during a catastrophe MAY be a myth. While I can not speak for most of them on that list, nor can I show any proof here. I lived about 30 miles from the Marysville Honda plants some years ago. I'm not sticking up for them, just feeling suspicious about the email stating that only American Auto Industry gave money, or contribute to the American community.

While Honda has a great many flaws, I was personally involved with some of the community happenings that Honda was putting money into, and contributing a great deal of resources to. They did, at the time I was involved, support at least, the local area during hard times, including giving money to the Marysville Red Cross during flooding in the area. It may not be much, but it meant a lot to Marysville during those times. It may not have been millions or billions, but they did seem to be very community conscious, and at the time, it surprised me. Honda was saying "What can we do to help" in that situation.

Mark

Don't confuse the Americian Honda employees with the corporation.  Most work forces took collections to raise funds to help. 

Thanks,
Wayne

Just got this in an email. It would not surprise me in the least!  :25-

 Dan (tacman)


Congress at their best!

Subject: Why was AIG BAILED OUT

 
Remember when this economic crisis hit, and Congress let

Bear Sterns go under, pushed a bunch of forced marriages

between banks, etc.?

 Then they bailed out AIG.  At the time, I thought:

"That's strange. What does an insurance company

have to do with this crisis?"

 I think I just found the answer.  Among other things, AIG

INSURES THE PENSION TRUST OF THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS!!

 
No wonder they got bailed out right away! Heck with the

people, let's protect our future, said all our Senators

and Congressmen.  Nice to see where their loyalties lie!

 

The whole thing just seemed a tad bit shady... :60-

There's a very good article about it in Rolling Stone (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26793903/the_big_takeover/print) this month, that names names and attaches blame. Seems like AIG was at the heart of it all, not that they were alone, but ... well, read it.

One thing that bothers me a lot is the emphasis on stopping the fall in stock prices. Now I know we've all got our 401Ks and stock investments and it would be nice to see the value restored, but - I don't know about the rest of you - I give having a job and income a somewhat higher priority. I get a newsletter from Gaming USA and there was one earlier this month that made me want to spit. I'll quote a bit -


With the possible exception of MGM, most casinos are still doing better than break even - the problem is that they aren't meeting Wall Street analysts' profit forecasts, resulting in lower stock prices. What this c***sucker is saying is that in order to protect his stock investments, casinos and suppliers need to throw thousands of ordinary people out of work. You'd think that a stock analyst in the gaming business would understand better than the average investor speculator that when you gamble on something and lose, it's lost. You don't start bleating about how unfair it is and demand your money back from the house at other peoples' expense. It's too bad we don't have real men running the casinos like in former days, who could send other people (the kind played so well by Joe Pesci) to have a quiet word with these Wall Street types and convince them of their place in the greater scheme of things.

GEICO Insurance company was a spin off of the goverment when they put up their insurance to open bid to save money.
GEICO = Goverment Employee Insurance COmpany.
Goverment sure saved money by spinning this off and giving AIG the program..... UGH ! :52-

Just do some research on Sen. Chris Dodd and AIG.

I didn't do any research but just the fact of mentioning a senator and a company brings the phrase "conflict of interest" to mind :96-

His wife was supposedly on the board of one of their subsidiaries.. :60- :60- :52-

Well, I just got this in an email and am amazed at how this fits into todays economy and financial situation. The scary thing was this cartoon was published in the Chicago Tribune newspaper in 1934. I thought the purpose of studying history was to be infromed as to not make the same mistakes as in the past!  :103- Enjoy.

 Dan (tacman)

N8LHG ,Damn I wish I still had them figures(but if someone would like to see them,I would find them :) ) . No,its not a myth...they were not even close to the "American" car Companys....Nevermind,Just seen it a few post up  :89-

So true Wayne.