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Boy these Mikohn's can be frustrating!!

Trying to get the comms between the slot and the chamii+ working so the increment occurs.  Current settings are as follows:

F3 - SNGL
F4 - M-05
F5 - 3sec
F6 - JP0
F8 - MS00

11d:

02 - 0004
07 - 0001
78L - 0001

I've bumped the increment1 to 0.10 in an attempt to force it to roll quicker for testing purposes.

Have tried Machine types of M-00, M-01, M-02, M-05

Thanks for any assistance in advance!

Only speaking from the IGT S+ side of my face...... we have to enable Linked-Progressives within the slot before it will send the coin pulse to the Mikohn board. Perhaps Bally is the same  :103-

Heya Jay!

That's what my 11d settings are (on the Bally) - 02 tells it enable progressive, 07 is # of jackpots, & 78L is the machine ID.  There are also two jumpers on the mainboard to enable RS485 comms.

I'm about ready to drop-kick this entire setup into the Mississippi   :25-

On my S6000 Settings as follows

F3-SNGL
F4-M08
F5-3SEC
F6-JPO
F8-MS00

11D

02= 0005 if 0004 is used you get 91 error
07= 001
78lL= 001

Give that a try. Tim

Is it deep?  :96- :200-

I tried to send you a copy of the 6000 manual for progressives...
I hope it helps you K. !

Be patient...you'll figure it out from StormRider's settings!
I wonder if the Bally 6000's need relays for the progressive outputs on the backplane board?

Bunker,

You are correct backplane should have jackpot relay in ISO 1 position

Let me also add this psp stuff can make you pull your hair out at times

I've got an optocoupler installed on the backplane, so I'm good there.  However - there is also the issue of the jumpers on J8 & J9 on the mainboard.  Both are jumpered on 2&3.

I'll give your settings a shot right now!

Yeah it takes a little playing with but I'm sure you will get it
who are we speaking with at Worldwide ?
I know of Karsten and Bradley

Oh yeah Kar,
This   :58- Mikohn and PSP stuff was never really user-friendly...lol
In fact, I been there and done it many times but I never remember anything...
That's why I have so much reference material to fall back on to look up.
Plus, whenever I really get in a bind, I resort to coming here for help -
That's why I'm always here...lol

Also, I've pulled and pulled but I have no more hair left.... :72-

It's me - Karsten.  For some reason our old WWG account on NLG went POOF and I had to start this one...

UPDATE:

I just ran the settings from stormrider - if I set 11d/02 = 0005 I get a 91 error.  If I go back to 0004 the error goes away, but no increment in the chamii+  :25-

Can you check your J8 & J9 mainboard jumpers?  I've got a feeling it's related to them.

(and no, the Mississippi just isn't deep enough for this P.O.S. chamii+   :37-  )

Hey Karsten its Tim here bought a Bonus Times from you years back
On Mine J8 is 1+3  J9 is 2+3 but that refers more to having the 485 link wire hooked up which I don't use
also I assume you have pin 3 and 13 hooked up on the backplane to J7 on cham

Heya Tim!!

After this go-around with this Mikohn stuff I don't think I'll ever forget the settings again.

I'll change my jumpers around in the morning and give it one more shot!

I've got both the 2-wire to the 485 and the 2-wire to the jackpot that go into the 4-pin bally connector (it's the official cable).  Isn't the setting of 02 = 0005 for multiplex only and would require the 485 connection? Hmmmm   :103-

(what really frustrates me is I can get it to work on IGT, but not Bally!!) 

You might try 11d 02 back to 4
and use M08

I use 11d 02 to 5 as I get the 91
you must have other wires hooked (485)up in that 6000
or different jumper settings I have 3 machines running cham2 now
it was always a learning experience.

Tim

I had to make my own cable and I think that 485 is coming into play here
I just use 2 pin hookup and no 485 I believe jw 9 at 2/3 tells it not to use 485 off the top of my head
Don't give up your just a setting away LOL
post back tomorrow your findings
then we can get it to dazzle and flip.

Tim

I can tell you that on my 5500 with 11d 02 set to 4, the JW9 jumper will determine whether or not I get the 91 error. In my case, I am using the serial return from the Mikohn, have the jumper set to pins 2 & 3, and do not get the error. I can also see the updated progressive value in the bookkeeping meter appendix after every spin, which confirms that the serial return data are being received by the machine.

My progressive increments fine, however, I have never been able to get the jackpot to trigger, and I've been fiddling with it for almost three years. :37- Still no definitive answer. You're lucky to have the original progressive cables. I have never been able to find a set.

I had this issue once with a 5500 and changing Opt. 2 to 5 allowed the J/P to trigger and reset properly.

If you try that change, you can test it for success.  Enable Option 80 (change it to 1 from default of 0), then go directly to the Paytable Test and line up the J/P symbols, set it to max bet then hit spin. If the new setting worked for you the Progressive would then be triggered.  Keep in mind that this test will cause a full reset to the progressive base amount as if it really hit, it will not return your current amount after exiting the test.

It won't work -- at least, not in option 80. Belieeeeeve me, I've tried every setting with option 80. ...   :7- :7-
But thank you for the suggestion. I sent you a K+ anyway. :88- :89-

By the way, what happens in option 80 (with 11d Option 2 set to either 4 or 5) is that it seems to send multiple coin pulses to the CHAMII+ (like six to ten or so), but not one long signal. The coin pulses in regular play and test 80 always work perfectly, but not the jackpot.

Now, what's weird is that if I set 11d 02 to 2, then the jackpot WILL trigger the progressive correctly in test option 80. However, coin-in does not work at all, and of course, there is no return serial data on the slot. :96-

lol

Stat,

You do have the jackpot relay installed at ISO1 position correct ?
also in 11d menu option 07 set to 1 external jackpot
I use
02-5
07-1
78L-01

In option 80 set to 1
then menu10 pay table test always triggers jackpot for me.

Tim

Yes, I have the opto relay installed and use those settings. The only thing that I see above that I might not have tried is changing the CHAMII+ setting to M08. The reason that I'm not sure is that back in the beginning I tried various settings of M and MS as well as different trigger times, so I'm not positive that I didn't try M08 at some point.
I'm going to try that and see if it makes a difference.

Stat, Do you have U7 removed and JW9 jumped correctly ?

You know, I tried it with both the chip inserted and removed and didn't notice any difference in any of the modes. JW9 is set on the "lower" two pins -- which should be 2 and 3 -- and the serial return data works fine. I do get a 91 error if I change the jumper on JW9 and keep setting 5 setting 4, so I'm pretty sure that I have it set correctly. Ironically, this particular machine had a CHAMII+ installed at the factory, but the casino yanked it out before selling it off. There is even a sticker on the inside of the top box with a picture of the CHAMII+ circuit board on it. I figured that if the chip was there, I ought to just leave it. They wouldn't have installed that chip when they took ripped out the progressive. Besides, if I leave it in, it won't get lost.  :96-

P.S. What type of error is supposed to happen if the chip is left in? As I say, I never saw a difference. :103-


<EDIT> Corrected to setting 4. On the 5500, setting 4 uses the serial return and setting 5 does not. :31-

By reading it sounds like you checked everything, Double check your settings for (M-08) & (MS-00) for serial return. Do you know for sure your cable to mother board and cham II + is correct .

Actually, I am going to make a new cable because I'm thinking (hoping) that it might be part of the problem. Once I get that done, I'm going to try setting the CHAMII+ to M08. I think that it's either M00 or M05 right now. I'm also hoping that that is the problem.

I just tried another clear and set everything up from scratch, but got the same results. Coin in counts fine and the serial return updates the machine bookkeeping meters in appendix b JP-1 to correctly reflect the value shown on the progressive meter, so I'm just about certain that I have things wired correctly.

I tried test 80 again, and if I turn off the serial (11d Op.2 = 5) then the machine indicates JP1 and the Mikohn increases by what I believe to be 8 coin-in pulses. I can then retest as I wish.

If I turn on the serial return (11d Op.2 = 4) then the machine locks up and I have to press reset to clear it. The Mikohn still increments by 8 pulses. I know that the reason for this is that the machine is waiting for the CHAMII+ to return the jackpot info (or an acknowledgement) via the serial connection, and that doesn't happen because the CHAMII+ progressive doesn't get triggered.

I will post back after I make a new cable and try setting M08.

To add:

I have been using the following connections:

Bally 5500 J9 is a 1x12 pin connection labeled "Relays". Pin 1 is on the right.
               J10 is a 2x3 pin connection labeled "Bal Line". Pins are  3  2  1
                                                                                           6  5  4 

Mikohn J7  Bally 5500
pin   3           J9  pin   1
pin 13           J9  pin 10
pin   9           J10 pin  2
pin 10           J10 pin  3


Does anyone know what the chip in U7 does? I'll try removing it again after making a new cable and changing the CHAMII+ settings, but I would be interest in knowing what it's supposed to do, since it hasn't seemed to matter so far. :103-

One more thought/question. Is it possible that my opto-relay is fried? Would I be able to increment the progressive at all if it were? I know that the jackpot signal and the coin pulses go through the same two wires -- it's only the length of the signal that changes. What I'm not sure of is whether the coin pulses pass through the relay. :128-

Well, changing the mainboard jumpers around allowed me to change my setting from 0004 to 0005 without generating a 91 error message, unfortunately, I'm still not getting any increments on the chamii+...

I have not tried removing the 485 connector from the backplane yet, but I'm not so sure that would even make a difference.

I don't have a breakout box or a multimeter with storage capability, so I'm not sure what pulses (if any) or their length are being transmitted back and forth.

I did connect to an IGT S-2000 (after reprogramming) and was able to get it to work - so it's NOT the chamii+.

Open to any and all suggestions!  Including a deeper body of water to dump this crap in  :25-

Stat, when you build your harness you only need 2 wires as you said,

Cham II + pin 3 goes to Bally pin 1
Cham II + pin 13 goes to Bally pin 10

U7 I have know idea, just going by Bally Pro 5500 and it works by taking out on my machines  :103-

Let's get this thing working for you ! It's got to be something simple we are overlooking !!!

These are my Bally 5500 setting's
02-05
07-01
18-01
78H-01
78L-01

Worldwide Gaming, it sounds like the serial connection is working but the coin/jackpot connection is not. (The two are separate processes, each using two independent wires.)

Have you double checked to make sure that the coin pulse wires are connected to the correct pins on both the 6000 backplane and J7 on the CHAMII+? I know that you have original cables, but it's possible that the cable was mis-wired. My other thought was to check and make sure that you have the opto-relay installed in the jackpot1 socket on the backplane. I'm still not sure whether regular coin-in pulses go through that relay or not, but if they do, then it would need to be there.

Does anyone know the failure rate of those relays?

Hey StatFreak - isn't the BAL LINE unused?  There should be a second 2x6 connector labeled LINK 485 that's wired with pins 2 & 4 instead of 2 & 3 and plugs to J14 on the backplane of the S-6000.

Can anyone confirm the wiring on the S-6000 vs the S-5500?

Thanks!!

I don't know where the connections go on the 6000, but I know that it has to be different because the machines have different backplane boards.

Heya StormRider - I noticed on another topic that you said you were using two wires from your S-6000 backplane to the ChamII+  --

JP Coin In on the ChamII+ (J7) to pin 14 on the backplane & Common on J7 to pin 3 on the backplane.

I'm curious - what are you connecting to on the backplane - there's only 12 pins!!   :30-

Karsten,

I just took a look at the backplane S6000
2 wires only looking left to right...pin 3 backplane to pin 14 on J7 of cham
now last pin(12) far right of backplane to pin3 on J7 of cham
I must have made a typo in the post as the cham has 14 pins out
will go back and correct the post also note on that backplane there is a space where a pin would be
so counting the space = 12

As far as the 5500 I have no clue don't own one

Either you have the 2 wires hooked up reverse or that 485 is causing problems
you are in standalone mode in the cham setting correct ?

Tim


I went back and corrected the post at the time I was setting up a dual level
so I was a little confused with everything.

Hi Tim -

I've got the OEM harness right now - here are the pinouts for the S-6000 backplane on that harness:

J13 -

12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
           x                       x

J14 (link 485) -

5 3 1
   x
6 4 2
     x

BAL LINE unused (is for 5500, not 6000)

J13, pin 1  -->  Pin 1 on molex (4-pin)
J13, pin 10 -->  Pin 2 on molex

J14, pin 3  -->  Pin 3 on molex
J14, pin 2  -->  Pin 4 on molex

ChamII+ connector (J7):

 7  6  5  4  3 2 1
 x      x         x
14 13 12 11 10 9 8
          x

From the molex to the ChamII+:

Molex, pin 1  -->  Pin 2 on J7
Molex, pin 2  -->  Pin 7
Molex, pin 3  -->  Pin 5
Molex, pin 4  -->  Pin 12

Now, that's the 'official' OEM cabling for the S-6000 to ChamII+ according to Bally...

I'm about to make a quickie two wire connection from J13, pin 3  -->  J7, pin 14 & J13, pin 12  -->  J7, pin 3 and will post how that goes.  It does seem a bit odd to have such different wiring from the OEM to what you've got working, but then again, it is BALLY!   :25-

It just dawned on me that you've got your J13 numbered backwards, so, pin 3 is really pin 10 and pin 12 is actually pin 1.  That matches the OEM cable as well.  Which means, on the OEM cable (if I'm numbering the J7 on the ChamII+ correctly - shown above) that J13, pin 1 -->  J7, pin 2 & J13, pin 10  -->  J7, pin 7.

According to the ChamII+ manual:  J7, pin 14 is 'Voltage I/O' & pin 3 is 'Machine Input'  - however, they do not show if they are counting pins from right to left, top row then bottom row or right to left, alternating top and bottom rows (as Bally does on the RS485 connector).

Does anyone have the actual pinouts for J13 on the S-6000 backplane?  With that info, I can match up to the J7 connector on the ChamII+.  Or, if we can figure out the pin numbering correctly.....

Sent you an Email !

if are holding the cham II+ so that J7 the 14 pin header is to the bottom right and the switches are along the top the numbering is as follows:
J7
13 11  9  7 5 3 1
14 12 10 8 6 4 2
                               switches ^^
<- power conection   RS-232 and other headers ->

 :212-

I can confirm that this is the correct pin numbering for the CHAMII+  J7 connection.

Karsten,

I sent you a pm on this
you can call me anytime.

Tim

THANKS!!

Does anyone have the pinouts for the J7 header?  The Bally manual does not give them nor do the schematics list them.   :60-

Karsten, E-mailed you the Cham II + manual it's in there !

Maybe this might help?
J7 is way on the right hand side.
Just click on it to enlarge it!>>>

I've got the ChamII+ manual - but thanks anyway!  :3-

The Bally S-6000 backplane pinouts aren't listed in there - just a drawing of the header  :8-

Maybe if we attack it from a different angle...

I've got pinouts for the S-5500 J9 header.  Of course, Bally being Bally - they've numbered the header 12-1, left to right - but they've numbered the I/O wiring 1-12, left to right (so pin 1 connects to line 12 / pin 12 to line 1).  I'll list the pinout to the header pin and assume that's what they really meant.

S-5500 J9:

1 - Ground
2 - Ground
3 - Jackpot 1 Common
4 - Jackpot 2 Common
5 - Jackpot 3 Common
6 - Total in  Comon
7 - Unused
8 - Common
9 - Total In
10 Jackpot 3
11 - Jackpot 2
12 - Jackpot 1

So - does anyone have a functional S-5500 to ChamII+ that can check their wiring and post?

WHOOPS!  MY BAD!

What I really meant was the J14 header on the S-6000 backplane!

I have no idea if this will help you Kar?
It's from a CHAMII+ manual but I don't know to which Bally.
Click on photo to enlarge it!>>>

Got that - unfortunately, it doesn't give pinouts for J14 - just the 4-pin molex (I've already tried inferring from there, but no luck on getting the ChamII+ to increment).  Problem is, which 'common' are they referring to and which pin on J14 is that correct 'common', etc etc...

Considering I've got an OEM cable and it's not working with the ChamII+ programmed the way it's supposed to be...about the only things I can think of now is bad/incorrect wiring and/or a bad optocoupler...

Page. 412  of the Bally 6000 manual gives you the J14 plug pin outs...
Seems like only pins 1 and 6 are not used.
2,3,4,5 are the TX and RX ins and outs.
I would try to match those up with the RX and TX ins & outs of the CHAMII+ pin outs above?
Here's a cut out from page. 412.
Click on it to enlarge it!>>>

Maybe, but I'm leaning towards a possible option setting?
Page. 216 seems pretty important?>>>

Good stuff!  I've got a S-5500 ProSlot manual, but not the S-6000...

Next - pinouts for the J13 header on the S-6000 backplane!

OK - time for a recap on the complete configuration...  Who knows, maybe with it all in one place someone will spot something.   :3-

EQUIPMENT:
ChamII+ (v2.07)
Bally S-6000
PSP v2.0 on DOS 6.22

ChamII+ settings:

DISP -
JP Limit = No
# Displays = 1
JP GRP 1 = SA
MFILE1 = 5
ODSPEED1 = 10
FONT1 = ODMTR8W
SIZE1 = 70

SYST -
TEST = OFF
BIRTH = OFF
SAVE TO = RAM DRIVE
SHOW LOAD = YES
SHOW C1 = YES
SYMBOL = $
SOUND = DISABLED

ADDR -
PROTO = CON2
GRADR = 255
IDADR = 64
RTR ADDR = OFF
MACH ADDR = 1

PSP V2 SETTINGS:

JACKPOT PROGRAMMING -
BASE VALUE = 500.00
CURRENT JACKPOT = 1001.00
HIDDEN JACKPOT = 0
JP LIMIT = 999,999.99
INCREMENT1 = 1.00000
INCREMENT2 = 0.00000
F3 = SNGL
F4 = M08
F5 = 3sec
F6 = JP0
F7 = $$$$
F8 = MS00

BALLY S-6000:
11d -
02 = 0005
07 = 0001
78L = 0001

MPU -J8 - 1 & 3
J9 - 2 & 3

CABLING:

S-6000 TO CHAMII+

J13, PIN 1 --> J7, PIN 3
J13, PIN 10 --> J7, PIN 13
J14, PIN 2 --> J7, PIN 10
J14, PIN 3 --> J7, PIN 9

You can upload to your computer the Bally 6000
manual from the "Submit a New File" section of NLG....
It's on the bottom of the list!
Good luck Kar! :89-

From the PSP manual

Bally
Older machines (E series) were only capable of one progressive JP, so they used the short coin, long JP method. Recommended machine type is M-00 or M-05.
Newer machines (5000 and newer series) support two interface styles. One style is a relay board capable of up to three JPs. Recommended machine type is M-00 or M-05 if coin and JP0 are multiplexed on the same line, or M-02 if coin and JP0 are on separate lines. The other style interface is an RS-232 port. This is used with the Multicomm and supports multiple JPs and Nevada Reg. 14 signals. Recommended machine type is M-05 with machine serial set for MS01.

Hi all,

Some info to think about
A TYPICAL RS485 network requires terminating resistors on the line to allow the processor to know where the last node is.
Most devices today have the resistor built in and is activated by a dipswitch. I'm no expert on this.
See link for more info on this subject.

Good luck as networkiing devices can always be a pain in the  :126-

Markhttp://www.newlifegames.net/uploads/up/rs485.pdf (http://www.newlifegames.net/uploads/up/rs485.pdf)

IT'S WORKING!!!  With the settings listed above.

 :244-

The 485 link was fine - the issue was in the serial link. Turned out that the optocoupler installed was the WRONG model!   :97-

It was in a final bout of frustration that I pulled the thing out to stomp on it - and noticed that the silkscreening looked different than what I had seen previously.  Replaced it with the correct model and POW, everything started working  :208-

Glad to hear  :3-
I knew it was a matter of time  :244-

Tim


 :wa

I think this calls for a celebration involving beerz...   :89-   :89-   :89-

Who's all coming?

:105-  on getting it going!  :3- :3-
What model chip was the wrong one and what was the correct one? :103-

Stat, Is your Opto part# 4N35 and is located in the right place on jackpot 1 ?

I just double checked, and the answer is yes to both questions. :89-
Do the coin out pulses go through the optocoupler, or only the jackpot signal? The wiring diagram would seem to suggest that both do.

4N35 is the correct chip

 :136- :92- :105-

Great great job Kar!!!! :244- :244- :244- :244- :3- :3- :3-
I'm so happy you go it going!!!!
You saved it from the Mississippi!!!!  :200- Whee!!! :96-

I do not know about the pulses , I remember a few years back that i was told that Bally 18 setting had to be set to 1 to trigger some units , I had the problem your having and it bailed me out ( GO FIGURE THESE DAMN THINGS  :60-)

As soon as I get my new cable finished I will try all of the 18 settings and see what happens. Here's hoping..  :199- (or is that hopping? :96-)

I was actually starting to look forward to booting it in there.  Now I've got to find something else....    Hmmmm.....   :103-

Hi Stat, I have 4 of the bally 5500's all with standalone progressives, on the backplane boards of all 4 games there are 2 relays on every one, one is in the jackpot1 slot and the other is in the total in slot, does your games have 2 of these relays or just the one. I have found out that one of these is for the coin in, and the other is to trigger the jackpot on the chamII.

I definitely don't have a relay in the Total In slot. There is nothing in the manual or printed on the board to indicate which pin holes the relay would even plug into. :103-
Is it the same type of relay (4N35) and is it plugged into the same group of pins?

it is the same relay, plugged in the same way as the jp1, ours will not work without the second relay

Perhaps I should order a new relay from Mouser or MCM and see if it makes a difference. :79-

Changing the spot the relay went in was one of the early steps I took in trying to get my sign working.  Of course, at that time, I didn't know that I had the wrong optocoupler plugged in...  I didn't try a replacement part in any of the remaining spots after I got it working.  However, my understanding was they were for signaling additional levels of jackpots beyond the standard setups.   :103-

hey stat, if you get some of those relays, get 2 of them and put one in the jp1 slot and put the other in the total in slot, let me know if this works for you

I already have one in the JP1 slot. I was going to order one to put in the Total In to see if two relays would solve my problem. I have my fingers crossed. :79-

I also have the settings we use for our 5500's, the settings we use are- 02-0002, 07-0001, 18-0003, 78L-0001, the mikohn setting we use are on page 1 of the psp program and are as follows  F1     F2      F3     F4      F5      F6      F7     F8       F9      F10
                                                    send   load   sngl   m-02   4sec   jpo    $$$$  nofl     help    exit
these are the setting for our 5500's and all of them have the chamII+ boards in them, give these a try and let me know what happens

Does anyone know the exact part number from Mouser? There are way too many variations of the 4N35 to know which one to buy. :103-

<EDIT>

I posted my resolution here earlier this morning, but Bunker reminded me that my settings were for the 5500, not the 6000, so I split the posts into a new thread.
CHAMII+ & Bally S-5500 Settings (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=7606.msg67954#msg67954)

Thanks again guys. :88- :3-

Stat :31-