New Life Games Tech Forums

This article claims that slots (real Vegas slot S+, S2000) converted to "skill stop" (they claim not-pachislo). Anyway, here is the article:

A New Jersey company is testing a new type of slot machine in Ohio gas stations that the company says are legal because winning is based totally on skill.

The machines marketed by Reel Vegas Slots have been placed in eight Spee-D-Foods gas stations in Akron and Canton. Jim, have you seen these?

Flanders, N.J.-based company devised the game by converting real slot machines taken from Atlantic City. But while traditional slots use computer chips to decide winners, players must manually stop three spinning reels on the new machines to win.

"The machine doesn't determine the outcome," said Mark Anton, one of the owners of Reel Vegas Slots.

Winners also won't get cash, but instead redeem earnings for gas, phone cards, food and other items, including iPods and big-screen televisions.

Customers bet 25 cents, 50 cents or 75 cents a spin, with a chance to win up to $500.



Reel Vegas Slots hopes to expand into Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati. Spee-D-Foods installed the machines to attract potential customers, said company vice president Mark Grovemiller.

"Our business is down right now and the gas margins have been mediocre at best," he said. "Credit card fees are up. We are looking at anything to keep the stores open."

Spee-D-Foods installed the machines about six weeks ago and has already handed out four $125 prizes.

Police say they don't know if the machines are legal but will investigate.

Anton said the machines require excellent hand-eye coordination to stop the reels. Grovemiller said his company has too much to lose by installing illegal equipment.

Earlier this month, Beulah Park, a Columbus horse racetrack, pulled computer terminals that authorities said violated a state ban on true slot machines. Prosecutors have also sued a west side Columbus restaurant for installing the same types of machines that Beulah Park had.

Gov. Ted Strickland tried last year to place video slot machines at Ohio's racetracks to raise close to $1 billion to help balance the budget. The Ohio Supreme Court shot down the idea, agreeing with opponents who said it should have gone on the ballot.
(Copyright ©2010 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

COMMENT: I don't believe the above is accurate because : a) no RNG would be in the machine 2) if the RNG is present, hitting the STOP button just makes the outcome show up faster, instead of waiting 15 seconds for the reels to stop. That is why pachislos are not "skill based".

I guess this doesn't apply to them


And not only is it just a slot machine with stop buttons, it also cheat you out of money, if you'll read the interesting part starting at the end of page 2

http://www.double-d-gaming.com/images/DD_RWB7sOpinionCA053007%5B1%5D.pdf (http://www.double-d-gaming.com/images/DD_RWB7sOpinionCA053007%5B1%5D.pdf)

Yeah I read about this in the paper and it was even on the evening news.  So far they are letting them ride with no contest but it's just a matter of time and they will be impounded.

Here's another interesting tid-bit for ya.  I received an email from JDMunch, who is out of town now or I am sure he would have posted this by now.  Anyway, he was shopping around a mall in the State of New York and found these two beauty's behind the display glass.  They had a price tag of $1,299 and along with the display was a posted copy of the retailer's DOJ.  Ummm...I've always been told that the State of New York is one of strictest out there with regards to ownership...so uhh...what gives???

OK, I stand corrected. I guess that document explains it all. If that is the case then expect to see a lot of machines go for this use in the aftermarket, and prices may go up for home users due to the lack of volume....Intresting. I would play one of those machines if it were available at my local store. In order to have gambling, you have to have consideration, chance, and reward, take out any of the 3 and gambling it is not. Have to follow this one to see where it goes.

S+'s , less than 25 yrs old, Hummmmmmmmm, didn't see price tags so maybe they were just for display.

No as I said, although not pictured they had a price tag on the sides of them for $1,299 each.  Along with that was a copy of the retailer's DOJ.

Some of our Ohio people need to go by and see these machines.. like the one mentioned in this pdf file, it says it's a Bally red white & blue 7's but it's an IGT theme?

I guess it's OK if they don't run on coin. There is another "dealer" who says that if it's token in and out, it's legal save CA and LA. My first slot machine was purchased in PA over 10 yrs ago and all I had to do was fill out a piece of paper stating the state I was from and that if I converted it back to coin play, it was illegal in PA. That's it. Some other ones won't sell you s__t unless you have the DOJ, distributors certificate, etc.

That's what I don't get, how was the board modded? And how do you not get reel tilt errors if you "stop" the reels?? Intresting questions..........

Wow! Munch must sh-- when he saw those - at a shopping mall??  :72-
My god, the seller is asking for a one way ticket to jail!



Judge: "Now what do you have to say for yourself"

Seller: "Duh, I thought they hadda be 25 yrs?   :103- " 

Judge: "That's exactly what you get! The law says: 1945! " :72-

Judge bangs gavel  "Take him away bailiffs"

If I'm from one of the 13 "legal" states, I can buy it and take it back to my state!

lol...but why in the world would you pay $1300 hundred bucks for an old S+?  :25-

I thought it said 2.5.. Sure I'm blind in one eye, and my other eye was infected that day from picking at it, and I was tired, and I'd been swimming in a pool with too much chlorine, and that was the hour my glasses were at Lenscrafters but I seen that 2.5 year law

I wouldn't. That price is for the people that are not in the know and don't frequent sites like this. If we told ya what the real value of an s+ was.........well..........you know the rest. BTW, there is a private dealer on Long Island that sells S+'s through Craigs List all the time for like 800 to 1K Don't even know if he has a DOJ or not. But I'm sure Stout could give him some nightmares..........LOL

Did New York change the laws so we can sell slots now?
What the heck is going on?
I gotta do some digging around.
Maybe I can start a small business out here????
If so, anybody wanna get in on it?  :72-

Now I need a name for my shop...."Bunker's Blazing 7's"?

Come on now, don't tease us!

Bally also had Red White and Blue Sevens.  The machine must be an S5500 and I'll reserve comment on the findings regarding converting these.

Great post K+ Reed.

Thanks,
Wayne

"Reho's 'Rousing Slots!" That's a good name for the shop! lol

I'm in!
w

Al;right Mopar!
Okay...I gotta get a truck and get your Bally machines down here and we'll make a killin' !!! :96-
uh...I better get a license huh? lol

I'm not sure they would accept mine there....  I do have IGT Video, Vision and Stepper machines and also a few WMS machines.  I've got some awesome Bally machnes though.
w

You'll be changing your name to "Tri-n-tostayouttadaslammer. :72-

 :97- :72- :208- :96-

Hilarious one Uniman.  K+

Thanks for the laugh,
Wayne

Wayne at those NY prices you'll probably get $8,500 or more for an igame

As far as I know it's a 25 year old state NY
but looking at the picture both have b/v units which is a NO NO
the RWB looks like it might be working with the b/v lit up.

The Double Diamond looks to have an error code
and the b/v is not lit up and the candle is lit
Doubt it's working ....wonder if the guy knows how to fix it
maybe Bunker should go check this place out and get the real story.


Tim

It's true... In San Juan Puerto Rico on cruise.
Will fill you in when I get back.

They had three more s+ machines in the store.   
Needless to say for 1300 + ny state tax it could have been mine 
Was really weird to even see them. Felt like I was in Vegas where machines are everywhere.

A couple of years ago I was at Six Flags Great Adventure in New Jersey
I went into one of the arcade buildings, they had S+ slots that played just like a skill stop
you had to manually stop the reels, I remember thinking at the time, I wonder how they did that
I wish I had taken a picture of them

Wes

Gee Munch...You're always on vacation!  :72-
Man!  I'm envious of ya!  :131-
Who the heck is selling these things in NYS?
Are they nuts?

My brother said that there is a mall in West Hempstead and that he saw them in the window?

In the store they had clear packing tape over the bv and coin slot.
I wouldn't even want to have one in my possession in NY never mind sell them in a popular mall.

Hey on the ship they changed up the casino - they got rid of 30 dotmations and got many more plain s2000 machines.  I miss those machies terribly.

These were in a HUGE mall. They have 6 anchor stores there it's nuts!
Macys
Lord and Taylor
Bloomingdales
Jcpenny
Nordstrums
Dicks

Pretty soon we'll find S2000's in Spencer's....lol

It actually was a store like spencers.   I don't think it's a national brand store though. When walmart gets them then I know things have changed!

Well re ship leaves PR in 30 minutes along with my Internet connection.

BB Saturday

I can see it now.
Manufactured in China by 1-GT exclusively for Mall-Wort: S2010 slot machines -- only $48.88!  :94-

Just look in aisle 666, right between children's toys and the gun counter. :5-

Lower Prices, Always. :101-

$48.88???

That's still too much!!! :30-

I'll wait for the "Red Tag Sales".... :200-

Thought Wally World had "roll back" not red tag...?  :58- :30-

It is OK until you see the Blue Lights! :68- :68- :68- That is not the "BLUE LIGHT SPECIAL" that you were hoping for! :200- :72- :97-

CaptainHappy :95-

I've seen the conversion on the Bally 5500
I mean, I've removed the conversion on the 5500's :79-

They don't use the same MPU
The board was reversed engineered and has far less crap on it although it's the same size to fit into the rack. it look really empty.
What's is surprising is that they used original glass themes. The one's I saw they also wrote their own programs and created their own glass themes to avoid copyright laws.
Many of these were placed in arcades and used tokens. Also dispensed tokens to be used in other machines.

Michigan is a twenty-five year state and look at this add;

http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/for/1865193856.html (http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/for/1865193856.html)

I know there's more stores like this.

AFAIK DOJ=AOK!

http://www.bbb.org/toledo/business-reviews/games-and-supplies/players-gaming-supply-in-newport-mi-90051375 (http://www.bbb.org/toledo/business-reviews/games-and-supplies/players-gaming-supply-in-newport-mi-90051375)

How in the world does this small company do it without getting busted? How?  :191-
They're listed in the Better Business Bureau as slot machine vendors????!!!  :72-
Is it NOT that obvious that an S2000 is NOT 25 years old?  :5-
Can anyone tell us what year S+'s,  at least the ones equipped
with JCM145 bill acceptors - came out? 1989 or 1993? :128-
Even so, 1989 is still only 21 years old.

I believe that many LEO's do not care about those of us that have them in our homes, or the dealers that sell to us.
Or the LEO's have more important things to deal with like murder, gangs, robberies, etc.

Also how would it look politically to a DA or ADA to prosecute some one that has one in their home for fun.

I have had local LEO's in my Apartment a couple times when I was a victim of a crime.
All they said was you own slot machines. They did nothing about them.
I am not saying this is true in every state or local area but in mine it seams to be the case.

One would certainly hope so.
Then there's my town in the middle of the desert where they bring criminal charges against people for not watering their lawns in a drought.  :37-
(Yes, I said criminal)

"uh...whaddaya mean officer??! I peed on the lawn before you got here!"  :96-

:72- :72- :72- :72- :72-

"Then I'll have to add a charge of public urination to the complaint." :68- :47-

That is when I would zero-scape the yard and use materials that stay cooler if possible in the desert.

They'd have me, then. The winter watering restrictions have devastated my grass. I've nurtured the back lawn back to a decent condition but I had to abandon the front lawn this year. Maybe I'll get some astroturf.

http://www.grassbgreen.com/ (http://www.grassbgreen.com/)

I am in NJ and am familiar with the Double D Games.
They are programmed differently for different jurisdictions to comply with local regs.
The programming is accomplished by insertion of a piggyback board on the MPU.
The graphics are mods of current themes and some are original art from scratch.
There are a few websites for these games, ddgaming.com, tru-skill.com, legal-slots.com and double-d-gaming.com
In NJ, pushing one button will allow the game to develop an outcome (1/3 skill, 2/3 chance is legal).
In Ohio, you must stop all (3) within a certain time period or the game times out and you lose.
In Florida the games must have handle counts to calculate payouts (.75 max win per game)
There is no RNG and the games are truly skill based as certified by NFA Eclipse.
Any other questions I may be able to answer?

Marty-

Welcome to  :nlg-.  Thank you for sharing your insight on these machines.

I wonder why nobody thought of these before -- a year ago an S+ (in quantity) was very inexpensive -- now I suspect they'll become more valuable.

Thank you for the welcome!
The Double D conversions are on the Bally 5500 & 6000 platforms.
I have seen the S+ but am unaware of their operating characteristics.

It probably doesn't work on bare sand.

What is wrong with green sand?

You could always get a really big flame thrower and turn your front yard into glass

um... well..  :103-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoPSo8_7XBE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoPSo8_7XBE)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwlpHJIe3cI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwlpHJIe3cI)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdF3kLIdujM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdF3kLIdujM)

Coolest things I ever saw, thanks for posting.

OK, so they're using their own boards, programs, blah blah to rip people off with these skill games, yet they're using copyrighted and trademarked symbols and glass, isn't that slightly illegal?

I read the pdf report from that law firm and it looks vacuum-shut. So unless Ohio takes these guys to court (where they might lose), those machines look to proliferate and make money for many people and businesses.

Brianzz seems to be troubled and making dubious statements that are not true.
The lab reports prove the games do not "rip off" players.
All art work and symbols, while having a similarity to existing work, are more than 40% modified.
The HoldEm game is 100% original!

Pardon me, didn't mean to offend your work.

I didn't know by adding a cherry to a reel symbol or changing the background graphic on belly glass that modifies it by 40% or more, of course we won't get into names either ie. Wild Cherry® <---

Early prototypes were too closely based on existing designs.
"Art guy" said it was permissible with a 30% mod.
We discontinued "Wild Cherry", now use "Wild Bunch".
It would appear that IGT got offended as well.

Would the "Hold "em" fit in a Bally 6000 machine? :103-
I want a glass/game/eprom kit !  :89-
PM me with details and pricing, please.


Two extra reels in the top box?  Fantastic!!!  :3- :3-

Changed a bit I would say.... :79-

The HoldEm is engineered for the 5500 platform and operates with no problems.
There are (2) payout program options, redemption at 840% and charity mod at 85%
The 6000 has challenges with the top reel mounts and issues with sound volume and coin acceptance.

I really like the idea of the Hold 'em game.
I like what you guys did with the extra reels in the top box...very cool!
The possibilities are endless in my mind!  :79-

The eprom mods are also way too cool.
Did you design your own or just added a few things ?

We do our own designs and programming for the most part.
The Martini Madness game sounds are unique, coin drop sounds like ice cubes dropping into glass,
reel spin sound is cocktail shaker.
Cue Tease (pool theme) sounds recorded from actual pool game and programmed into game, etc.

Next weekend I'll be going to Ohio. What businesses have these machines. I'll have to see what these
machines look like first hand.

:103- :103- :103- :103-
WOW DELICATE MATTER TO DISCUSS HERE -WITHOUT OFFENDING TWO MEMBERS !!

but the original post of the pdf file on page 1 of this says it all !!! >>>posted again in full read format << BELOW

that many here miss the point
that how the machine can be “Readily adaptable” TO CHANGE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER IN SIMPLE TERMS

ITS A FANCY WAY OF SAYING HOW CAN WE CIRCUMVENT THE LAW  

to adapt this machine to be accepted as a non gambling device in certain jursidictions

further note
that DD GAMING which is owned by Marty --aka-Martin Caplan .
& JOHN42355 on ebay & rudies sales .com is affilated with Mr. Caplan

hope no offense was taken?? but the article says what it says along with your follow up statements
 
=============================================================

May 30, 2007

Edmund G. Brown, Jr.

Attorney General

California Department of Justice

P.O. Box 944255

Sacramento, California 94244-2550

Re: Report on the review and analysis of the Red, White, and Blue 7’s skill-based

amusement device submitted by Reel Vegas Slots, Inc. and Double D Gaming, Inc.

Dear Mr. Brown:

By request received May 11, 2007, and subsequent information received on May 21, 2007,

Nick Farley & Associates, Inc. has conducted a review and examination of the Red, White,

and Blue 7’s skill-based amusement device distributed by Reel Vegas Slots, Inc. and

developed by Double D Gaming, Inc. Our review and examination has been conducted on

the behalf of Reel Vegas Slots, Inc. The device reviewed is identified as the Red, White, and

Blue 7’s skill-stop slot machine. This review was conducted to determine how “readily

adaptable” the Red, White, and Blue 7’s skill-stop slot machine is converted back into a

gambling device. “Readily adaptable” referring to how easily the parts, schematics, and

knowledge of such a conversion can be obtained.

Background Information on Nick Farley & Associates, Inc.

Nick Farley & Associates, Inc. (NFA) is an independent compliance testing laboratory.

Based in the greater Cleveland, Ohio area, NFA was founded in November 2000 to serve the

compliance testing needs of the casino gaming industry.

The management of NFA has been actively involved in the test and evaluation of electronic

gaming devices and related systems since 1987. Law enforcement agencies and law firms

throughout the nation have relied upon NFA for expert witness services in the area of skill

versus chance. Many times electronic games are confiscated by law enforcement agencies.

These games purport to be “games of skill”. NFA’s experience and expertise have assisted

many law enforcement agencies in the prosecution of illegal gambling devices operating

under the guise of an “electronic game of skill”. Additionally, law firms have retained NFA

to provide expert analysis of legitimate games of skill for use in jurisdictions where such

games are legal but not regulated.

Red, White, and Blue 7’s

May 30, 2007

Page 2

Nick Farley & Associates

www.nfa777.com (http://www.nfa777.com)

NFA is the dominant testing laboratory serving the regulated jurisdictions for amusement and

redemption games. Suppliers of amusement and redemption games have a choice of testing

laboratories for their compliance testing needs. Having served nearly every manufacturer

and supplier in these regulated jurisdictions, Nick Farley & Associates, Inc. has been the test

laboratory of choice.

Leading suppliers of Class II gaming equipment have also selected NFA to review their

intricate systems and dynamic games. Our evaluation of Class II gaming equipment has

provided vital information to the National Indian Gaming Commission (NIGC) to assist them

in their onerous responsibility of assessing these new technologies to render a classification

determination in accordance with the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act (IGRA). Our

contributions and assessments have been influential in recent classification determinations.

Compliance testing assures integrity and fairness to the public. It is an essential part of any

regulatory scheme as it relates to gaming and skill-based amusement devices. NFA is

currently authorized as an independent testing laboratory with more than 70 regulatory

agencies throughout North America, including regulatory agencies in the State of California.

Regulatory agencies throughout North America have recognized NFA as a credible and

reliable compliance testing laboratory.

For more information about Nick Farley & Associates, Inc. please visit our website at

www.nfa777.com (http://www.nfa777.com).

Modifications Made to the Machine to Prevent Use as a Gambling Device

The machine reviewed, was a modified slot machine, in which the device was reconfigured

and reprogrammed to remove the random number generator and automatic stopping of the

reels to render the game outcome, which could classify the machine as an illegal gambling

device under California law. Section 330 of the California Penal Code defines a gambling

device. The applicable section of the California Penal Code pertaining to this evaluation is

section 330.b.2 listed as follows:

(2) Any machine, apparatus or device is a slot machine or device within

the provisions of this section if it is one that is adapted, or may readily be

converted into one that is adapted, for use in such a way that, as a result

of the insertion of any piece of money or coin or other object, or by any

other means, such machine or device is caused to operate or may be

operated, and by reason of any element of hazard or chance or of other

outcome of such operation unpredictable by him, the user may receive or

become entitled to receive any piece of money, credit, allowance or thing

of value or additional chance or right to use such slot machine or device,

or any check, slug, token or memorandum, whether of value or otherwise,

which may be exchanged for any money, credit, allowance or thing of

value, or which may be given in trade, irrespective of whether it may,

apart from any element of hazard or chance or unpredictable outcome of

such operation, also sell, deliver or present some merchandise, indication

of weight, entertainment or other thing of value.

Red, White, and Blue 7’s

May 30, 2007

Page 3

Nick Farley & Associates

www.nfa777.com (http://www.nfa777.com)

Also applicable to this evaluation, is California Penal Code Section 330.b.f, which states:

(f) Pinball and other amusement machines or devices, which are

predominantly games of skill, whether affording the opportunity of

additional chances or free plays or not, are not included within the term

slot machine or device, as defined in this section.

Double D Gaming, Inc., and its distributor Reel Vegas Slots, Inc., have incorporated

significant modifications to convert this former gambling device to remove any element of

hazard or chance, or other element of unpredictable game outcome. By removing such

elements of chance, the device will no longer comport to the slot machine definition as it will

not satisfy the following requirements:

“…such machine or device is caused to operate or may be operated, and by reason of

any element of hazard or chance or of other outcome of such operation unpredictable by

him …”

When originally manufactured as a slot machine, the Red, White, and Blue 7’s device was

designed in such a way that the game outcome was determined by a Random Number

Generator embedded in the device’s software. The Random Number Generator determined

the stop positions of the spinning reels, and the reels would stop automatically, without

player involvement, to reveal the game outcome.

The Random Number Generator and automatic stopping of reels to render the game outcome

have been eliminated. The player affects the game outcome by stopping the spinning reels

using three (3) “STOP” buttons located on the cabinet exterior. Videotape analysis of the

stopping of the spinning reels revealed that the reels would come to rest consistently within

three stop positions after the player activates the “STOP” button to stop each reel. This

consistent stopping is indicative that the game outcome is controlled by the player and not

the machine or the machine’s software.

Please note that the player must stop all three of the spinning reels to receive entitlement to

any winning reel combinations. If the player fails to stop any of the spinning reels, the reels

will “time-out” after approximately 10 seconds and return the players’ money for game play.

If the player stops one or two of the spinning reels, but does not stop all of the spinning reels,

the game outcome will result in a loss regardless of the symbols displayed on the reels. Thus

the player’s actions to stop the spinning reels affect the outcome of the game. A failure to

participate in the stopping of all three spinning reels will result in either the return or loss of

credits played, but under no circumstances will the game outcome be determined by the

machine.

Game Play

The device reviewed is identified with the game theme, Red, White, and Blue 7’s. The game

was developed by Double D Gaming, Inc. However, the cabinet reviewed was originally

manufactured by Bally Gaming, Inc. Red, White, and Blue 7’s is a three (3) reel device, with

three (3) stop buttons, a spin button, credit buttons, and a handle to facilitate game play by

the player.

Red, White, and Blue 7’s

May 30, 2007

Page 4

Nick Farley & Associates

www.nfa777.com (http://www.nfa777.com)

Money is inserted into the machine through a coin or bill acceptor. Inserted funds are

displayed as available credits for game play. The credit buttons are used for game purchase.

When the desired purchase price is reached, the player may press the spin button, or if the

maximum purchase price is attained, the reels will begin to spin. After a brief period of time,

the three stop buttons on the front of the machine illuminate. These buttons must be

depressed, one at a time, by the player to stop the spinning reels. Failure to stop all of the

spinning reels will result in either the player’s purchase price being returned or rendering a

losing outcome. After the player stops all three reels, the game outcome is evaluated. If the

game outcome results in a winning combination, the player is awarded credits, which are

accumulated on the credit meter.

Software Information

Operation of the Red, White, and Blue 7’s skill stop slot device is controlled by software

stored on two EPROMs housed on the main circuit board. The main circuit board is

identified as follows:

© Bally Gaming Inc.

AS 3356-201 Rev. E

The EPROMs containing the software which controls the operation of the Red, White, and

Blue 7’s game are identified as follows:

Software ID Memory Size Board Position Checksum

Kobetron

GI-3000

Signature

P016-82 rev2

C499C6 U12

27C512 U12 00C499C6 0H8F

P016-82 rev2

BA94D1 U15

27C512 U15 00BA94D1 08CF

Features And Options

By accessing the operator menu, the operator is availed to three administrative features. The

operator menu is accessed by activating the key switch on the cabinet exterior. Once

accessed, the administrative features are manipulated through the exterior buttons on the

game terminal.

The first feature offered in the operator menu allows the operator to view award payouts.

The operator may select the reel position, and the seven-segment display will show the prize

to be awarded for the game outcome.

Red, White, and Blue 7’s

May 30, 2007

Page 5

 Nick Farley & Associates

www.nfa777.com (http://www.nfa777.com)

The second feature offered in the operator menu allows the operator to test the tokendispensing

hopper. With the cabinet door in the open position, the token-dispensing hopper

will dispense 10 tokens.

The third feature offered in the operator menu allows the operator to view the soft meters of

the game terminal.

Operator configurable options are set by means of an 8 position DIP switch on the main

Central Processing Unit (CPU) board. This switch is identified on the board as SW3. These

options give the operator the ability to choose from predefined game settings. Positions 1 & 2

select attract mode settings. Positions 3 & 4 select hand-pay options. Positions 5 & 6 select

maximum purchase price. Maximum purchase prices of 1, 3, 5, & 10 coins/credits are

selectable. Switch positions 7 & 8 select the denomination of coins/dollars the machine will

accept. Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Dollars are selectable.

Converting this Device for Gambling Purposes

Red, White, and Blue 7’s is not intended to be used as casino-style slot machines. As such, it

is not easily converted to a casino-style slot machine. Converting this device to a casinostyle

slot machine would take significant amounts of time, knowledge, and engineering

effort. Below is a list of differences between these devices and casino-style slot machines:

• These devices do not have a Random Number Generator (RNG). A casino-style slot

machine uses a RNG to determine the outcome of each game.

• These devices do not control the game outcome. A casino-style slot machine

determines the outcome as soon as the player initiates play, and spins the reels to

display that pre-determined outcome. These devices do not know what the outcome

will be until the player stops the spinning reels, as these devices do not keep track of

the reel position as they are spinning.

If one were to go to the painstaking efforts to convert these machines to a casino-style slot

machine, they would have to know which chips required replacing, what type of chips would

be compatible with this circuit board, have knowledge of the circuitry to control the reels,

and develop a RNG to determine the game outcome. Alternatively, this device may be

converted to a casino-style slot machine by replacing the CPU board with another that

integrated the previously listed modifications. Conversion of these devices would require

intimate knowledge of the communications protocols and software programming utilized by

these devices.

Findings and Conclusion

Nick Farley & Associates, Inc. has reviewed this device, including game operation,

hardware, and program source code. Based upon our review, we have found that the Red,

White, and Blue 7’s device is not a casino-style slot machine. The outcome of each game is

based solely upon the player’s skill and acumen in activating the stop buttons at the

Red, White, and Blue 7’s

May 30, 2007

Page 6

Page 6

Nick Farley & Associates

www.nfa777.com (http://www.nfa777.com)

appropriate time in an effort to attain a desired outcome. Thus, with the game outcome being

based on a predominance of skill, the device satisfies the following requirement from

California Penal Code Section 330.b.f:

“…amusement machines or devices, which are predominantly games of skill, whether

affording the opportunity of additional chances or free plays or not, are not included

within the term slot machine or device”

We have also found that the task of converting this machine into a casino-style slot machine

would be quite cumbersome for an individual without intimate knowledge of the electronics

and software program design of these devices, and/or the knowledge to rewrite the software

and replace the chips on the circuit board.

Nick Farley & Associates, Inc. has performed extensive research and analysis to determine

the findings and conclusions of fact presented in this document. However, we realize that

not all information may have been disclosed or provided for our review. If any parties

dispute our findings, and may present evidence or information contrary to our findings, we

would welcome the addition of this information for our consideration. In such an instance,

we reserve the right to amend or revise this document.

This document has been prepared by Nick Farley & Associates, Inc. for the California

Department of Justice for the benefit of Reel Vegas Slots, Inc. and Double D Gaming, Inc.

Distribution of this document is limited exclusively to Nick Farley & Associates, Inc., the

California Department of Justice, Reel Vegas Slots, Inc., and Double D Gaming, Inc.

Unauthorized copy or distribution is prohibited.

If you should have any questions or require additional information, please feel free to contact

our office.

Sincerely,

Nick Farley

President

EW

File: CAAG-CA-RVSI-07-01-EW

cc: Mark Anton, Reel Vegas Slots, Inc.

Martin Caplan, Double D Gaming, Inc.
=

So not easily modified would be the knowledge to buy new original game chips off fleabay and install them.?
Looks like they use the same MPU just re-write of two game chips. Even the wiring appears to be the same as the new programs just use the original Service, Credit and bet buttons to stop the reels at one two and three.

Like I stated before, I have seen these conversions where they use the same cabinet, but install a very HIGHLY modified CPU completely re-designed, New re-written software and added new buttons cut into the front door. To Mod these back, you have to purchase a different MPU with game chips and new glass and reel kit, as they manufactured their own themes. Remove the re-wiring of the front door back to original and cover up the additional button cut-outs from the door.

Thanks for info Rocket. I don't want to get any of these.
Thought if I would see where they have them operating I would stop and see for myself.

Hey not enough coffee yet .. NEON -can you modify your post -so a dummy like me can understand what you posted lol

I take what you posted as sitting on the fence on these machines ??>>can you please say in simple terms <<
what your take on the article ..

you can go each way with your post ??  I coud be not awake yet ??

I did not want to drift into uncharted territory --about the numerous  trade mark violations on turning these machines into what
I can not state on the forum what they actually are !!

as Wayne posted from gt slots he would not comment on them .

as far as swapping them back to a casino style machine -- I toss the hypothetical question out here to all members -
WHO OWN A BALLY 5500 SERIES SLOT --OR  IGT -S-PLUS SLOT

IS IT REALY DIFFCULT FOR ANY OF US TO PROGRAM ONE OF THESE MACHINES ??

ANSWER ==NO!! its a piece of cake !!

DO these machines start off with known copy right parts --glass -boards -eproms -cabinet design -glass themes --
pay-outs of a coin or token ===YES JUST TO LIST A FEW THNGS THAT HAE BEEN VIOLATED --TRADE MARK ISSUE'S ETC .

the bottom line is the cabinet is a BALLY CABINET --WHICH I DONT THINK BALLY GAVE DD-GAMNG PERMISION TO MODIFY
OR IF A IGT CABINET LIKE WISE --THEY WOULD NEVER GIVE PERMISSION TO MODIFY THERE CABINET  

BOTH  IGT & BALLY --HAVE LAWYERS WHO WOULD WRAP A ELECTRIC CORD AROUND A NEW BORN BABY !!
TO WIN A CASE !!

the  circumvention of any product has serious consequences ---

can the normal john doe buy one of these machines & reconfigure the play habits it once had ??-----most likey not !!
but the average John Doe  would not be buying a slot .. not to tinker with it etc .


its a case of circumvention of law -by adding a few things to the BALLY -IGT SLOT so it plays like a 3-button skill stop and be accepted in a given state
>>AS NOT A GAMBLING DEVICE << which in this case is pure B/S  

Different jurisdictions have different regulations for gambling devices, as well as skill games.
DD Games were, and still are, bona fide amusement redemption games used in arcades,
licensed by State agency and exempted as non-gambling devices by Casino Control Comm..
Arcade redemption games payout from 600% to 1100% plus, depending on configuration.
Charity games were developed to aid bona fide, licensed charities raise funds in NJ.
In NJ, you need a license and permit to buy or use the charity games.
Others, like RVS, saw the application of the charity games to the commercial market.
Other than DDG website, there is no marketing campaign in Ohio, or anywhere else for that matter.
One lab report for California, done for RVS, does not apply to all games or programs.
Each separate model has a unique signature and individual lab report required by NJ Regulators.
As for the "re-conversion factor", Farley was unable to convert without extrordinary efforts (complete replacement of all parts).

FYI, not my words

Response to CA Dept of Justice re: Red, White, and Blue 7’s
October 23, 2007
Page 4
Conversion to a slot machine by means of component replacement
Testing in our laboratory indicated that the following components would be required to convert the Reel Vegas Slots Red, White, and Blue 7’s device into a slot machine.
•   Operational Bally MPU board with EPROMs
•   Complete wiring harness
•   Bill validator
•   Coin acceptance mechanism
•   Reel mechanism
•   Award Glass and reel strips
•   RAM clear EPROMs (required to clear errors that will inhibit game play)
The above components would be required to be properly matched, as the original manufacturer included security measures to protect the integrity and intellectual property of the game. If the machine is turned on with parts that do not match the security configuration, the game will display an error and lockout game play. The only means to unlock the game require the use of the RAM clear EPROMs, or a complete replacement of the MPU board. It should be noted that many of the parts required are unavailable to persons or companies who are not licensed to possess such equipment. We found the easiest and most cost effective way to obtain all of the above would be to obtain a completely functional Bally S5500 slot machine. Once all components have been collected, the Reel Vegas Slots Red, White, and Blue 7’s device would need to be gutted of all major components. The Bally components may then be installed.
We estimate the conversion by means of swapping all of the components from a Bally slot machine to the Reel Vegas Slots / DD Gaming cabinet would require a skilled slot machine technician. With such a technician, the conversion would take approximately six to eight hours with proper tools and the above mentioned components.
The result of this conversion process would produce a machine that does not resemble or function as a Reel Vegas Slots / DD Gaming amusement skill device. The resulting game is, in essence, a Bally slot machine in a Reel Vegas Slots cabinet. This remanufactured (converted) game would play as a traditional slot machine, in that the player would not control the stopping reels.
An additional complication would be the reel and cabinet artwork. Since Reel Vegas Slots utilizes unique reel strips, the game play would not appear correct unless the correct Bally artwork and reel strips were used as well. This would essentially result in a Bally slot machine with the exception of the ID plate.

IF the>>FYI<< was directed to me ???

 I was just stateing the obvious ..

the machines are still protected under copy right regulations from BALLY GAMING !!

I dont see any document saying its ok for DD-GAMING TO CHANGE  THERE MACHINES AND USE THERE CABINETS ETC ..
plus could care less --its your gig 

we could beat a dead horse all day long on this topic ..

I am more than well aware that every jurisdiction has its own rules .. permits blah blah blah !!


what you did to those BALLY GAMING machines if it ever went to a court of law for copyright violations ??
 I think you would want very deep pockets for legal expense..  

going up against IGT --BALLY --& REG ARCADE CO.'S THEY DONT FOOL AROUND with there products .

Nothing directed at any person in particular, just trying to give the proper info.
If anything, I feel like DD Gaming is being attacked as the bad guy.
For the last ten years we designed, developed and sold games to arcades with no controversy.
Once you putchase any game, you are free too do as you wish,
provided you do not mis-represent the game as OEM.
The analogy would be putting a chevy engine in a ford.
The serial ID plate is DD Gaming, the parts proprietary or generic.   

NO -ATTACK HERE
just posting from what has been posted already  !!

the comparison of chevy engine  into ford auto --sorry is poor example --

the person who does that which does it daily im sure or visa versa is not reselling mass quantity items of autos

is not taking a gambling device & mass quantity modify it --then place it in a arcade or casino to make money with it .

I was just saying the facts of proprietary parts that are in the BALLY -IGT - SLOTS --slightly altered glass or not still have
many trade mark violations --incuding self admitting burning new eproms for these machines is a no no ..

its a dead horse in my opinion --the chevy into ford made me think a bit more .

if these dont have RNG =random number generators
what method of >>gaming commision << legal -software is being used ??

because the quick one that ops into mind is the >>FINATE <<METHOD TO DETERMINE A TYPE OF WIN FREQUENCY !

which is  A CHERRY MASTER style method ..

please dont reply & say its skill of hitting the buttons please !!

Your point is well taken on the Chevy v. Ford analogy, they both sell cars and compete for market share.
DD Games are not used or sold to commercial casinos because they can not guarantee a "hold" percentage.
Every player of every game has the opportunity to win without limits or controls of any type.
Major slot manufacturers do not sell games for arcade redemption use due to the high cost and limited units.

The skill is not to push a button when lit, it is the timing that determines the outcome.

:208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208- :208-
sorry not under attack but i heard the best laughter of the explanation of win frequency ever --timing that determines outcome

you dodged every question on did bally give you the go ahead to modify there cabinets ??

you dodged the RNG --just said timing determines outcome ?

every previous question was dodged about trade mark violations ??

the hit freqency thats one for the books !! sorry

dead horse -subject

 :212- :212- :212- :212-

IF you want to stick with the auto analogy, Many manufactures sell cab and truck bodies to outfitters that set them up as stake trucks, garbage trucks, fire trucks, vac trucks ect....  They don't sell the modified vehicle as a Mack or whoever supplied the cab and frame. They re-brand it with the name of their company.
This is done all the time.

Just to clarify a few items that were mentioned.
There is no RNG, the player controls the outcome of the game.
There is a base percentage computed mathematically without the application of skill.
Field test indicate an increase of 20-30% is added with the application of skill.
Parts are supplied to major slot manufacturers by vendors who also sell to others.
The games are not branded with any manufacturers trademarks other than DD Gaming.
Most games are boxes of generic parts, the graphics and programming are unique.
The California mod was done for RVS and would not be legal in NJ.

You are correct that the subject is dead, you've made up your mind and nothing will change your point of view.  
Case closed!

Thank you Neon, at least somebody understands the distinction and differences

I think we got off the track of the original PDF FILE .posted on the product !!

many comments were made prior to mine --

now Marty -
I believe you now who I am etc . if not John H. will explain .

my point all along was not to attack you or what DD GAMING --manufactured -modified etc .
its a case of a post is made on a FORUM for debate ?? -----help--out other members etc and so on .

you perhaps took my opinion as a attack ?? sorry its a opinion !!>>to be correct my statement its a machine altered to circumvent
laws to be used in a arcade casino etc

I still stand by my opinion what the machine was converted for--to circumvent laws of putting a slot machine--although altered-to a skill stop !! many may understand this --there will be some who disagree im sure !!
many people dont understand what was done -- neonkiss  does it seems  ..

but my point still is mantained that a BALLY GAMING machine .has been altered to become a skill stop machine .

>>my only strong point<<< is i cannot believe that BALLY GAMING or IGT GAMING has not stepped in for violation of trade mark violations
now the test lab says its ok --great as i said in one of my early post --its your GIG !!

what struck me odd is your first post was you said -you know of DD GAMING when in fact you own it .

perhaps if you posted your own links ??--people would of understood wha was going on sooner ..

as far as the pressing the button ---timing ==pay out -



=======================================================
i included your links for members to read

Visit Our Other Web Sites:
.
www.ddgaming.com (http://www.ddgaming.com)
.
www.legal-slots.com (http://www.legal-slots.com)
.
www.Tru-skill.com (http://www.Tru-skill.com)

Marty's Playland
=============================================
plus this off your own website
Definitions & Terms

Gambling: The general legal definition consists of three words or elements:
Consideration (Charge to play),
Chance (unknown random outcome)
Reward (anything of value received)
All three elements must exist to sustain the charge of gambling.

Games of Skill: Devices or schemes that rely upon input from a player to influence or develop an outcome.

Games of Chance: Devices that rely upon an system unknown to a player, such as internal computer program or RNG (Random Number Generator), that develops an outcome without any influence or control by a player.

Random Number Generator: More commonly known as an RNG and more  precisely, a Pseudo Random Number Generator. A computer program that constantly cycles through all possible outcomes and selects one upon activation of gameplay without any player input. 

EPROM: The computer programs that control the operating characteristics of the device, Electronic  Programmable Read Only Memory or EPROM for short, that is stored on a computer chip or disc.

Guaranteed Return: A term used by slot manufacturers to assure casino operators that over a set number of game plays a certain amount will be retained (hold percentage), by the operator and directly related to the payouts advertised by casinos.

Slot Machine: The traditional one arm bandits that usually dominate the majority of casino floor space and provide the majority of profit as well

Skill Stop Reel Game: A game that is designed to closely resemble the appearance of a slot machine with different operating characteristics under the control of the player.

Class I, II & III Games: Federal terms used to classify and describe games permitted under the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act (IGRA).   

Charity Games: Games designed to raise funds for charitable purposes.

Redemption Games: Games that dispense tokens, tickets or printed slips redeemable for awards.

Operating Characteristics of Games: Behaviors of specific types of games and the programming that controls the operation of the game.

Theoretical Payout Percentage: A mathematical computation that assesses the anticipated payout ratio without allowances for the application of skill.

My input was to correct some misconceptions and erroneous information that was posted by those who purport to know more than I.
I can not comment on anybody elses games since I have no personal knowledge of their operating characteristics.
I have not said one thing that was untrue or not supported by valid documentation.
It was not my intent to advertise or solicit business, hence I just attempted to provide info and clarify points in contention.

Acres gaming bought new machines from IGT, installed their own graphics and programs and sold to casinos.
They were so good at upgrading, IGT bought them for $130 Mil.
AC Coin & Slot in NJ, an IGT distributor, manufacturers their own games based on IGT platforms and sells to casinos in competition with IGT.
Both sold rebranded units at significantly more than the original list price of the new games from the OEM, much like the analogy of Neon with cabs & chassis purchased from automotive manufacturers and converted to special use vehicles.

Again, DD Games were originally developed for the arcade redemption market and we do not sell gambling devices, nor are we licensed to do so. Again, others have seen the charity games as adaptable to the commercial sector and that is free enterprise.
Again, everybody is entitled to their own opinion and better to have the facts before that opinion is posted as truth.

Boy I sure hope we get some rain down here.  :79-   How's the weather up North.

lol my mother god bless her at 89 yrs old still does what you did Ron !!  lol
its getting ready to pour in ma.

Thanks for asking Ron.  It's quite sunny but not too warm right now.  A beautiful day.  How's the weather down there?

Thanks,
Wayne

HOT 92-95 today.

Marty, thanks for taking the time to explain these machines. Very interesting!!  :89-
Much appreciated.





Oh yeah, the weather, the high has not been below 100F all month!  :159-

Thanks Uniman, just trying to set the record straight.

I'm not sure why you think that Bally needs to give permission for someone to modify cabinets that Bally designed once they've been purchased by that customer.  If I buy a pair of Nike shoes and want to drill holes in them, market them as "self draining", and then sell them as "Kevin Brand Self-Draining Shoes", I don't think Nike has a tree to bark at -- they were my property, I modified the original design, removed the Nike logo, and offered it for sale.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.


Marty-

Can you please explain how there's any type of payback percentage that can be calculated if the outcome is purely determined by players stopping the reels?  Do the reels spin slower on the redemption version making it easier to line them up?  I guess I just don't understand how payback can be determined if the player could, in theory, line up a winning combination on every spin if their reflexes were fast enough.

knagl,

I am not a math or statistical expert but, I will share what I have been told and understand to be true.
According to the designer and programmer, once a game is completed it is possible to enter all known values
and compute a PAR sheet for each program based on a minimum of 10K handle pulls letting the game develop an outcome on its own.
This method works for games that have an RNG or time out feature and does not include allowances for player input (skill).
Different programs may require more or less handles to accurately gauge a theoretical payout and hit ratio
If the game is too easy, everyone wins and the operator gets broke, if the game is too hard and nobody wins, people will not play.
The trick is to find a balance between the two.
Does this explain the methodology sufficiently?

Arcades, like casinos, often limit daily prizes and bar "advantage" players.
"Advantage" players are players who consistently win for no apparent reason in defiance of the odds who have not been caught cheating.
For example, the first HoldEm games were field tested in Florida at an adult arcade by RVS. NJ regs dictated that if a player does nothing, they are entitled to a credit for free play. Florida players quickly learned that it was to their advantage to only play the game to completion when the first two cards drawn were a winning combo (jacks or better). Everyone won but the operator and the program was modified to eliminate the advantage.

By the way, your reply on the permission issue is dead on.

K+ Marty. Thanks for explaining. I would like to see these "redemption" machines all over. You get the thrill of slot play without the hassle of "gambling". These are "mor legal" than the Texas 8-liners and their phone-card system, which was declared illegal by TX Att'y General. Do you have a version that works in an 8-Liner cabinet with the same "hold" methodology??

reho33,

Common sense would dictate that if you have multiple paylines, one would be skill, the others random.
In NJ, if you push one button, the game will develop an outcome and a reward for a winning combo.
In most other jurisdictions that is considered 1/3 skill, 2/3 chance and you have a gambling device.
The RVS Ohio version, if memory serves me, requires at least two button activations before time out
to generate an outcome, i.e., 2/3 skill, 1/3 chance and predominance of skill.
We did a PA prototype that requires a player to select all (3) reels before time out and failure to do so
results in a voided game and forfeit regardless of visual display, i.e, even if a winning outcome is shown
on the reels, the message center displays a "Void", as close to 100% skill as possible.

As for 8 liners, I know absolutely nothing about the games.

I would imagine the percent payout would be decided by the number of symbols just like a mechanical slot. Since it is a skill stop you would not want high paying symbols like Wilds and 7's near each other. Spread them out to make it harder. To increase the payout just add more larger payout symbols (wilds & 7's) in place of the smaller symbols (bars & cherries).

Is this how it is done Marty?

Obviously the placement and number of winning combinations influences hit frequency and payout amounts.
For example, a high payout redemption game (800-1200%) has many more winning combos than an 80% charity game.
The redemption game pays on a single symbol selection in the high percentage version, tough to lose!
The redemption games takes in quarters and pays out pennies (or fractions thereof), determined by the arcade operator.
Charity games are basically dollar for dollar, if the vend price is .25 the win points are valued at .25 as well.
Make sense?

Yes, thanks.  :89-

Not all that difficult to understand if explained properly.

I imagine that speed of the spinning reesl also has a lot to do with the payout.
Spin them slowly and you can see the symbols, spin them faster to become a blur and you cant see what your stopping.

Than it truly is just dumb luck...

Neon,

I agree with that assessment, at 60 RPM or less the games is too easy, at 300 rpm, good luck!
The symbols are fixed (11 per reel), they are approximately 3" (they are good sized), you can distinguish patterns and some key on the music to determine time of selection. That being said, the normal spin is the same as a traditional slot (usually 90 RPM), they have the capability to spin approximately 300 rpm. On a charity game that is a big difference, on a high percentage payout NJ redemption game, it makes little difference since most everyone wins something.
 

What is the chance that there could be an affordable conversion kit available to slot owners for home use?

uniman,

email me off the forum or call and I will give you some options

I want a glass/game/eprom kit !  yes
PM me with details and pricing, please.


Two extra reels in the top box?  Fantastic!!!  applause applause

Uh...I'm repeating my post#61 you may of missed earlier perhaps?...lol

stayouttadabunker,

Thanks for the kudos!

Actually I was asking on behalf of other members here who are salivating for a chance to get one of these.  :185-

I currently own only Universal slots, no Bally's or IGT's.

Understood, lets do a quick run through the conversion process.

First, MPU is modified, 54 pin processor removed and socket installed, new battery, excess chips removed including U12 & U15.
Piggyback board installed with SSB2000 PCB (proprietary, I will look for a picture to post), new U12 & U15, new chip for optical coin board. 
Next, harness installed from backplane to top cabinet to power reels & other to door panel button switch.
Custom bracket installed in top box to align reels & anchor (design for 5500), (2) standard reel brackets modified to fit new bracket.
Change belly, paytable graphics, hot dogs, single line reel glass, reel strips, new button inserts.
RAM clear, ready to play!

Parts required:
Modified MPU
SSB 2000 PCB w/chips
U12 & U15
(1) Top reel mount, (2) modified reel brackets, (2) reel assemblies w/drivers
(2) harnesses w/molex connectors and stakeons
(5) reel strips (in house print & cut or commercial supply), belly & award graphics (translucent prints between precut plexi) or glass (Sunkist).

Needless to say, what you need or want and level of expertise affects cost.
Does the explanation make sense and have I explained it clearly?

General question for help:

Any preferred or best method to upload pictures?
Attach file, resize to?, or copy & paste?

Cancel that request, went to Welcome Wagon & got the info!

Picture of modified 5500 MPU and 40 pin socket installed (previously said 54 - thast was wrong!)
Next post is SSB 2000 piggyback board

Picture of SSB 2000 PCB front & back

Wow-   This thread got so long I'll need another week off just to read it!
 :72-

Thanks for posting the pictures, really nice. However the members here may drop dead when they see the prices..............LOL

The game retails for $3500.00

Hey marty!
Thanks for getting in touch with me!  :3-
I am excited to see one of these in working operation in person! :89-
I will probably never ever own one but the whole thing is a nice idea.
I hope you do well with it with the richer people! lol
However, just because I work in the biz doesn't mean I make that kind of money.... :8- :37-

I think it's a really nice concept that will be a money maker for a lot of businesses

Mark,

Bear in mind this is a game that people use to generate profits in an arcade setting unlike a used Pachislo or obsolete slot.
Glass and reel strips from Sunkist alone are in the $300.00 range and the PCB manufacture and assembly is pricey in small quantities.
If the game had a commercial casino application in would start with a newly manufactured platform in the 12-15K range.
I will answer your email separately when I have a little more time.

Oh...I never ordered strips from a graphics printer place...lol
I think that would be way too expensive!!!  :127- :129-
Remember, this is New Life Games - most of here just buy old, used junky
machines and fix them up/restore them to factory-like or better conditions!

Anyways, thank you so much for the explanation of this machine! :3- :89-
Your mods for a Bally 5500 are pretty cool!  :89-
However, there's no way in the world I could pay that much for a mod.  :72-

I'm just a guy with a few machines to fool around with...
My intentions are just to have something to play with while I'm on coffee break...lol
Guess I better see if the big bosses want one! lol  :79-