Hopper problem or normal?

[poppo]

I have found that if the hopper is not pretty full, I will get a hopper empty error. This is even when there are probably a couple hundred quarters in the hopper. What is happening is that the coins never even start to ride up the wheel. Not that they are falling off somewhere. The picture below gives you an idea of more or less what the condition is when I get the error. I had dumped the coins out to check everything, so there are usually more coins in there. I do have a new agitator on the way, but it does not look like it would hit the coins anyway once they get below that level. So is this normal for a low number of coins or is something else wrong?

[monitorman]

1st it could be a wrong or broken knife but we can not see it in the picture.
2nd it could be worn pins on the pinwheel but we can not see it because of the quarters.
3rd could be a rounded shelf.
4th could be a dirty OPTIC.
Remove the Bowl and take another picture. (4- Screws with springs)

[poppo]

1st it could be a wrong or broken knife but we can not see it in the picture.
2nd it could be worn pins on the pinwheel but we can not see it because of the quarters.
3rd could be a rounded shelf.
4th could be a dirty OPTIC.
Remove the Bowl and take another picture. (4- Screws with springs)

No, it can not be the knife or optics. As I said, the coins never even ride up the wheel, so they never get to that point. Basically they just stay at the bottom like in the picture. Also the shelf is not rounded (i checked). However the pinwheel could be worn, but I'm not sure just what a worn one looks like as opposed to new. I suppose that could be causing the wheel not to grab the coins. And when the hopper is more full, there is a better chance of one falling into place instead of getting bunched up at the bottom.


Here is a pictre of how a quarter sits on the wheel. The pins don't look that worn to me.

[stayouttadabunker]

It's fairly common for the pinwheel nipples to be worn
and quarters on the bottom never getting onto the wheel.
Plus, the quarters like to lean away from the wheel
in such a way that no matter how new that pinwheel is, or how sharp the pins are -
the quarters will never hop onto the wheel.


Whenever hoppers are that low - casinos usually have bags of change to re-fill them up.
Some machines in very few casinos actually have "Auto-ReFill" units installed.
You rarely see them any more but Builder Bob, a member of NLG, 
has one for sale - if he hasn't sold it already.

[monitorman]

The pinwheel and shelf look fine. one last thing If the hopper was used for large coin at one time it might have a white spacer between the hopper bowl and hopper base and would need removed (note sometimes they were riveted to the bowl).  If all checks out your hopper is fine. Most of the time around $50.00 is left.

[poppo]

It's fairly common for the pinwheel nipples to be worn
and quarters on the bottom never getting onto the wheel.
Plus, the quarters like to lean away from the wheel
in such a way that no matter how new that pinwheel is, or how sharp the pins are -
the quarters will never hop onto the wheel.

It's good to know that it is normal. However, not accepting that it has to be that way  , I made a mod to the agitator. I put a 1/8" thick piece of lexan under the agitator that extends out to the edge of the shelf. This 'breaks up' any coins that get stacked up down there which causes the wheel to slide under them. I've played for a while now and have had several hundred payouts without any problems. Not even getting any 'pauses' when coins are not picked up. I was a little concerned about coins riding over the top of it, but they just fall off and back into the hopper like any other coins riding on top of the regular agitator. Once I get around to filling the hopper, I will take it back off since it seems to work ok when more full and the regular agitator churns things up.

[poppo]

The pinwheel and shelf look fine. one last thing If the hopper was used for large coin at one time it might have a white spacer between the hopper bowl and hopper base and would need removed (note sometimes they were riveted to the bowl).  If all checks out your hopper is fine. Most of the time around $50.00 is left.

No white spacer, but it does seem like there is a pretty wide 'gap' between the bottom of the hopper that the wheel that can be seen in the first picture. That is where all of the coins tend to get stacked up and the problems start.

BTW, I had made that other mod to trick the optics, but the wife wants to hear the ching, ching, ching. So I had to  or risk 

[knagl]

For what it's worth, my hoppers will usually pick up all but the last three or four coins on their own...  Perhaps the bowl is different and there isn't as big of a gap?  Your solution looks good, though!

[Jim]

that's pretty normal on most S+ hoppers, when the coins get so low the agitator never hits them and they all get side by side and form a tight group of coins, sometimes it hard to unjam them using your finger.  there must be a design difference in the gap or something, because Williams hoppers very seldom will do that. one thing I have found  was the size of the shelf wheel, the ones that were made for tokens are a little larger and the spacing from the shelf wheel to the end of the pinwheel was smaller and it seemed it took longer for the quarters to get picked up thereby forming that jam.

If you intend to use a lot of quarters in your hopper you should move the coin probe up to the top hole, otherwise your coins are going to be diverted to the coin overflow chute.

Jim

[poppo]

If you intend to use a lot of quarters in your hopper you should move the coin probe up to the top hole, otherwise your coins are going to be diverted to the coin overflow chute.

Right. It's actually on the middle hole now which is supposed to be about $350 in quarters (looks lower in the last picture than it is). I usually kept about $250 in there before I emptied it and put the optics tricker thing in. After the wife convinced me to take that out, I've only put about $60 back in (which is when the problem really started). I usually just feed it any spare change I have or use bills, but I will need to go get some more quarters next time I go to the bank.