IGT S+ paying double the credits

[zonum11]

   Hello, everyone. I have just started working with gaming machines so i am fairly knew to all this but i must admit that i enjoy doing it.recently i encountered an IGT S+ Pinball barcrest with a (3100) tilt.The machine has an SP980 chip on the MPU and whenever you insert a dollar it credits a dollar but pays out two dollars without having to play the game.would this be something to do with the setup or is it the MPU that is bad.any suggestions on how to fix the problem.

[tollguy316]

It's showing a 3100 code... Open and close the door.

[zonum11]

 I have done that and cleared it out. the problem now is the credits.like i mentioned before when you insert a bill ($1) it will credit the amount but will display two on the winner paid window and will not allow you to play a game.none of the switches light up.

[knagl]

Welcome to the forum!

 

Is the machine using US currency?
 
What denomination is the machine supposed to be (ie. what kind of coins are in the hopper)? 

What happens exactly when you insert a $1 bill when there are zero credits on the machine?  (Does it immediately attempt to pay out coin(s), or do credits appear on the display?) 

Are there plenty of coins in the hopper? 

Do you hear the hopper spinning for a little while attempting to pay out before the 3100 code appears?

Does the game work normally if you insert a coin and then spin the reels?

Please reply back with the answers to these questions and we should be able to get your machine fixed up and working the way you want it.   

(Initial suspicions: wrong denomination set, defaulting to bills to hopper, not enough coins in the hopper or a broken agitator or hopper knife.)

[zonum11]

 The machine is set for U.S currency.programmed for $1.No coins accepted.Hopper empty (not in use).
 there is 1 credit showing on the credits window and 2 on the winners paid window.0 on the credits played window.cant cashout and none of the buttons lit up. i am also thinking it is something related to the setup/programming.but like i mentioned earlier i am new to slot machines.my technical background is wireless/communications .

 what should i look for on the settings? the machine is an hour away but with some suggestions i can go out there in the next couple of days and try to get it working.

[knagl]

The machine is set for U.S currency.programmed for $1.No coins accepted.Hopper empty (not in use).
 there is 1 credit showing on the credits window and 2 on the winners paid window.0 on the credits played window.cant cashout and none of the buttons lit up.

I'm a little confused.  You stated that the machine does not accept coins and that the hopper is "empty (not in use)", but in your first post you said that if you inserted a dollar that the machine would "pay out two dollars without having to play the game".  How is the machine paying out anything if the hopper is empty?

Also, if there are no coins accepted, how has the machine been able to be played if inserted bills were automatically being converted to coins?


Assuming that there were coins in the machine at some point (there really had to be in order to get a 3100 error):

3100 is an "Extra Coin Out" hopper error code.  (You can see a list of all of the common IGT S+ error codes on this page which you may want to bookmark for future reference.)  There's likely an issue with your hopper brake where the machine is trying to stop the hopper but it's not stopping in time, causing the hopper to continue spinning and it spitting out an extra coin.  As such, you're getting two dollars out when it should only spit out one.

Keep in mind, this doesn't mean that it's paying double all the time -- if you insert a $20 bill, it would likely pay out $21 (the $20 that it's supposed to, plus an extra coin may fall out by mistake).

There are a few different issues here that are all kind of combining together.  Yes, there are settings that you'll want to/need to change, but before you can do that you need to get past the error condition that the machine is currently sitting in.

From your description, the machine is set to default to paying out inserted bills from the hopper, rather than adding credits to the credit meter.  Also, you said that it's still showing 1 credit on the credit meter and that no lights are lit up.  My best guess is that the machine is still trying to pay out 1 coin, but since there are no coins in the hopper, it can't.  (That should result in a 3300 ("Hopper Empty") error.)  Please try adding one coin to the hopper (place it up against the wheel so it'll get picked up), then close the door.  See if the machine will then spit out that coin and if it will remove that credit on the meter, then we can go from there.

The next step would be to change the settings in the machine so that bills default to the credit meter (not the hopper).

Please note, from what I'm seeing in the PSR, you can't make this machine coinless with this SP chip.  If you were to set the hopper limit to zero, I don't think you'd be able to insert any bills, based on the following:



(Unless I'm misunderstanding that, in which case I welcome someone to come in and correct me.)

I have attached the PSR for that SP chip, and we can help you through the settings, but please keep in mind that you can not change any settings while credits remain on the machine.  As such, you must find a way to clear out that one credit that is still on the meter.  Please try adding a coin to the hopper as I described above.  The credit meter must be at zero before you can change any settings.

Also, it's likely that the hopper brake is broken, causing an extra coin to come out when the hopper turns off.  You likely have the opposite issue of what is described in this thread, which has pictures of the portion of the hopper where the brake mechanism is.

I don't think you can make this game coinless, so the owner is going to need to have some coins on hand in the event of a cashout, or if there's a decent sized hit that happens when there are already a lot of credits on the meter (pushing the credit meter over the hopper limit).

[zonum11]

 well its the first time i target one of these machines but im very forward to making it work.i cleared the 3100 tilt and proceeded to inserting $10 dollars which appeared on the credits window and on the winners paid it showed a 20 while there was no numbers showing on the credits played window.the machine buttons never lit up and never played a game.when you try to cash out it wont let you.there is another machine that is programmed to .25 cents and when you insert a $1 you can see the four credits on the window display and the lights do come on allowing you to bet or spin.another thing that i noticed was that when you insert a bill you will automatically get what i mentioned above but you can still keep inserting more money without the acceptor being disabled.

i dont no recall hearing the hopper motor or cycle. i will have to double check when im up there.

[Neonkiss]

SP891 ?
Does that support tokenized?
If so, Could be set up to give two credits for each dollar.
I don't have that PSR

[zonum11]

 SP980....
 do not know if its tokenized...
 but im also assuming it is something with the setup/programming...


will just have to wait till i go there.Knagl sent me the PSR for the SP980 will compare to what it has and troubleshoot.

[knagl]

well its the first time i target one of these machines but im very forward to making it work.i cleared the 3100 tilt and proceeded to inserting $10 dollars which appeared on the credits window and on the winners paid it showed a 20 while there was no numbers showing on the credits played window.the machine buttons never lit up and never played a game.when you try to cash out it wont let you.

Can you please take a picture of the inside of the machine, especially the area where the hopper is (or should be).  I now suspect that a) the machine is set to $0.50 denomination (giving you two credits for every dollar inserted), and b) there's a hopper simulator installed that is knocking off the credits right after the bill is inserted.

Another thing to try on that machine would be to press the Cash-Credit (or "Cash Out" depending on labeling) button ONCE, then insert your bill into the validator.  If you do that, do the credits remain on the machine and the machine allows you to play?

there is another machine that is programmed to .25 cents and when you insert a $1 you can see the four credits on the window display and the lights do come on allowing you to bet or spin.another thing that i noticed was that when you insert a bill you will automatically get what i mentioned above but you can still keep inserting more money without the acceptor being disabled.

In a typical setup on a quarter machine, you could insert a $1 bill, get 4 credits on the meter, and then insert another $1 bill to get 8 credits total, etc.  The validator should stay enabled until the credit or hopper limit is reached (typically a very large $$ number).

SP980....
 do not know if its tokenized...
 but im also assuming it is something with the setup/programming...

No tokenization, but it does support a denomination of $0.50, so if it's set up as that, it will give 2 credits for every dollar, or 40 credits for a $20 bill.

[zonum11]

what is a hopper simulator? i did see a black plastic device above the mpu which has 2 blinking lights a red and green.when i first cleared the 3100 tilt the light was red no green after the tilt cleared both where lit.it does look like it was placed there and not an oem product did not think much of it since the other pinball next to it has one also.ill take a picture and post it.

if it is set up as a $.50 denomination how can i change it to a dollar.


ok when i put in a dollar this is how it appears as soon as it takes in the bill nothing else happens.no light, no cash out, nothing zip,zap,zero....nada.

       2                                   1                                     0
winner paid                       credits                        credits played

put in a $10

     20                                   10                                    0
winner paid                       credits                        credits played

will not let you bet,spin or anything pertaining to the buttons.


 good one huh.....

[stayouttadabunker]

I don't think the machine is actually paying out anything.
It sounds like the "Winner Paid" window is acting like a Sentry Bill Acceptor,
in which it is displaying what type of bill denomination went in.
I'm suspecting that the DBV has a misplaced dipswitch setting
and all your bills accepted are essentially...doubled?

Also, the machine denomination is most likely set at as dollar machine.
It was probably a high-denom game before it left the casino.

[zonum11]

so if it is acting as a sentry bill acceptor.how do i put it to a normal operating mode?it has a wba installed. is it something i need to do in the setup section or the BA?

[stayouttadabunker]

I think it may by set up for a dollar right now?
After all, when you put a dollar in, you get one credit
and when you put a $10 bill, you get ten credits.
The winner paid window is displaying the value of the bills you're putting in.
It's probably part of the SP chip program for your barcrest machine.

Your machine is acting normal.
Play it and get some sort of a winner and tell us what happens.
Does the winning credits get applied to the display meter in the credits display?
It should show up on the winner paid display too - until you play another game.
Then it will go out and just your remaining credits will be displayed in the Credits window.

[knagl]

The winner paid window is displaying the value of the bills you're putting in.
It's probably part of the SP chip program for your barcrest machine.

Your machine is acting normal.

I respectfully disagree.  I own a S+ Barcrest pinball machine, and it acts like any other S+ machine as far as bills inserted, credits indicated on the display, etc.

In addition, if it's set up as a $1 machine, the values would be the same -- it would not show a "20" if a $10 bill was installed -- a $10 bill would be worth 10 credits.

Finally, he said that after he inserts a bill the machine won't let him play.  It sounds to me like the machine is automatically "cashing out" any bills inserted, and is also giving him double the value of bills inserted.

what is a hopper simulator?

A device that tricks the machine into thinking that the hopper has paid out coins, even if it hasn't or even if there isn't a hopper installed.  It would typically be plugged into the plug where the hopper normally plugs into in the bottom of the machine.

The hopper could also be modified to trip the hopper optics as it spins, which would also simulate coins being paid out of the machine.

i did see a black plastic device above the mpu which has 2 blinking lights a red and green.when i first cleared the 3100 tilt the light was red no green after the tilt cleared both where lit.it does look like it was placed there and not an oem product did not think much of it since the other pinball next to it has one also.ill take a picture and post it.

Please post a picture.  I'm guessing that might be an (unused) SAS communication box, but it would be good to see it to verify that fact.

if it is set up as a $.50 denomination how can i change it to a dollar.

That requires the use of a SET chip (a SET053 or SET057, for that SP chip).  Before we get to that point, let's check to see what denomination the machine is set for.  You can do that with the self test button and the PSR that you have (and is attached earlier in this thread).  Press the self test button until you get to page 6 (indicated by the <6> in the PSR) for the machine to display the current denomination.  If memory serves, it's displayed in pennies, so it should show "100", although I suspect it is set to "50".

good one huh.....

You said it.

[stayouttadabunker]

Thanks for the correction Knagl! 
But how in the world does an S+ pay out by itself all the time?
Could the hopper limits be set too low whereas EVERY credit would get paid out?
or could it be Player-Selectable Credit <0>5 " standard credit or non-credit" options?

[knagl]

I'm thinking the latter where its set up to default bills to the hopper.  On a quarter machine, for example, you insert a dollar and it automatically spits out 4 quarters.  I don't know what the displays would show for that, though, nor can I explain why the machine in question appears to show credits (that can't be played) and also a "winner paid" amount of twice the amount inserted.

[zonum11]

guys justt got back from the location where this machine is sitting.this is what i did:

i turned it on and had a 2 and 1 alternating on and off ( 2 winner paid, 1 credits , 0 credits played).
i then tried to cash out and none of the buttons are enabled (lit)
then i inserted a dollar gave me a credit on the credits window and a 2 on the winners paid.funny thing is that it did not add it to the existing credit since being that it wasnt cashed out.

checked the option (4): SP 32 0980 , (?) 00 8024

thats all i was able to check.was not able to take any pics forgot my camera.

What Knagl is describing on the previous post is exactly what is doing inserting money and cashing out automatically.

how is that possible.will try to bring in the machine in a day or two.will keep you posted.

[stayouttadabunker]

It looks like you're going to have to check what bill pay mode the DBV is set for.
You will need the SET chip to change it though.
Check the PSR for SP980 and you will see it there.

Here's a quote from the PSR980...>>>


If the bill pay mode selection is disabled, all inserted bills are paid from the hopper, regardless of the game’s credit type.  If the bill pay mode selection is enabled, the operator can specify in self test how inserted bills are paid.  Payment can follow the player-initiated credit type, it can be set to override the game’s credit type and always pay from the hopper, or it can be set to override the player-initiated credit type and always pay credits only.  Use the set chip to enable/disable the bill pay mode selection.

[zonum11]

 where can i get the set chip?

[stayouttadabunker]

where can i get the set chip?

Place a WTB ad in the "Classifieds" section of NLG and a vendor/seller/member will get in touch with you.

[knagl]

While it wouldn't be a horrible idea to have the SET chip on hand, you do not need it to display the current denomination nor do you need it to see the current bill pay configuration settings.  I would start by looking at what everything is set to before purchasing items you may not need.

If you do purchase a SET chip, go ahead and purchase a clear chip at the same time, too.  You generally don't need the clear chip, but every now and then things get really wonky and running a clear could fix the issue.  We need more information and pictures, however, before I would suggest just clearing it -- that should be considered a last resort.

[zonum11]

when you mention check the settings. is that going through the PSR information you attached.if so i will try that and keep you posted.

[knagl]

when you mention check the settings. is that going through the PSR information you attached.if so i will try that and keep you posted.

That is correct.  I mentioned this (in part) earlier in the thread:

let's check to see what denomination the machine is set for.  You can do that with the self test button and the PSR that you have (and is attached earlier in this thread).  Press the self test button until you get to page 6 (indicated by the <6> in the PSR) for the machine to display the current denomination.  If memory serves, it's displayed in pennies, so it should show "100", although I suspect it is set to "50".