Progressive odds displayed on machine

[Railroad94]

Not a good pic but found this very strange. Looking at a bank of Atronics video machines and all of them are hooked up on a 4 level progressive and if you get the 3 symbols you will get bonus spins and the amount of credits you win on the bonus spins determines what level progressive you win.

When you look through the on screen instructions it does not give the odds of hitting the progressive bonus but it does give the odds of what level progressive you could win based on how many lines and credits are played.     

I believe this is the first machine that I have seen show you any odds. Almost like a PAR sheet for the progressive and everybody can look at it.

Would the other Big Boys (IGT,WMS,Aristocrat) dare  display odds? Maybe others do and just have not noticed.

[Op-Bell]

Where did you see this game? Some jurisdictions or compacts require the game to show its odds, though this is fiercely resisted by the operators. Class 2 games generally display them somewhere, usually in an invisibly obscure place like the 29th page of the payout tables.

[uniman]

Often played the Artronics cash fever machines at a Michigan Indian Casino. But I never saw an odds screen for the progressive?

Very nice games and the adjustable screen is a nice gimmick.
Always felt they were hiding the cashout button since it is nowhere near the play buttons.

[Railroad94]

 That is where it was.. Michigan Indian casino but no other brands of machines carry any info unless you see them working on a WMS video and catch the numbers 86 up on the screen and then I start to talk loud  .   " 86 percent payback @!#*#! "     "14 percent hold @!##*. 

[Op-Bell]

86%? That's pretty good for Indians. I recall the Feds seizing a bunch of machines in upstate New York that had a hold of 50% ... Only state lotteries are allowed to go that low, though of course I have it on good authority that lotteries are not gambling  which is why you can have righteous "Video Lottery Machines" but not evil "Slot Machines" in many states.

[jay]

In Canada Most of our VLTs are GameMakers not evil slot machines.

[stayouttadabunker]

86%? That's pretty good for Indians. I recall the Feds seizing a bunch of machines in upstate New York that had a hold of 50% ... Only state lotteries are allowed to go that low, though of course I have it on good authority that lotteries are not gambling   which is why you can have righteous "Video Lottery Machines" but not evil "Slot Machines" in many states.

Op-Bell,
I know everyone here in upstate NY that has ran a native casino...
I am Mohawk as well.

I want to ask you, about when did you hear this?
As far as I know, the authorities raided the TVI casino ("Tony's Vegas International ") around 1989 in Akwesasne, N.Y.
after local public rioting.
The machines that were thrown out were old Bally EM's.
The S+'s that were also thrown out had chips installed in them that were no lower than 90%.

I'm just trying to figure out if we're thinking about the same event...

 

[Op-Bell]

I'm just trying to figure out if we're thinking about the same event...

Bally EMs about 20 years ago, yes, we're thinking about the same event. The news went all around the world - I read it in a British newspaper. The reports blamed the Indians and made a big fuss about what a fool you had to be to play on tribal land, but (as everyone ought to know, or be told if they don't) most tribes subcontracted the gaming operations to management companies and had nothing to do with what went on in the casino. I know who runs some of those "management companies", and it would be hazardous to my employment prospects to be associated with them.

My more recent experience was in New Mexico, where the Indians gringo management managed to find some 85% poker machines for one casino. Now that took some doing. They also wriggled out of the odds display regulation by posting the hit frequency on their games.

[stayouttadabunker]

I was actually witnessing the whole event as it unfolded.
What you heard in the British papers and what was told to the press was totally false at that time.
I'll tell you what really happened...
At the time, there were about 30 small "lounges" or mini-casinos operating by various Mohawks who resided in Akwesasne, NY.
Most of which had less than 200 machines.
Most of them only had the Bally EM's ,"M's" and a few S+'s.
New York State was pissed because they didn't have a piece of the pie.
The tribal government had nothing to do with these casinos.
These casinos were mostly run by the traditional Mohawks that resided there.
Because NYS wasn't getting any taxes or revenue from the Mohawks, they decided to shut them down.
This is how they did it.
They used the tribal government paid pigeons (Anti-gambling activists) to incite riots on the reserve.
(Remember, there was no economy for the tribal government people at the time.
Anyone working for the tribal government was essentially a NYS employee.
After all, they were paid by the state.)
Then the tribal government called in the state police to stop the rioting.
During the rioting, the anti-gambling activists broke into the TVI casino and started throwing out machines into the parking lot.
It got so bad that two men got killed and numerous families on the reserve of Akwesasne became split.
NYS then proceeded to "lock-down" the reservation with police barricades and riot squads.
That was the end of family owned casinos.
Thousands of natives were now out of work...
personally, I was a blackjack dealer at the time and my family owned 1/3 % of a newly opened bingo/casino.
I learned a lot about security and cameras at that time then later on went to work for Pelco.
There is only one casino on that reservation now....guess who owns it?
The tribal council of Akwesasne and NYS.
Basically the whole thing really, was about the land...and the fight for who has jurisdiction there.
It's still not over...

ADD>> There are way too many other details to this but I wanted to make it short as possible...

[Op-Bell]

Thanks for telling us the other side of the story, stayouttadabunker. It sounds like this is still a bit of a sore point with you... I don't blame you. Figures there had to be more to it than just seizing a few machines to make it onto the international wire services.

[knagl]

I've seen a similar odds screen on another Atronic game, "King Kong Cash" at the local Native American casino.

Note that the screen does NOT in any way indicate the odds or payback of the machine, it simply spells out your odds of winning one of the progressive awards in the bonus round, once the bonus round has been triggered.  As one would expect, the more lines you bet and the you bet per line generally increases your odds of winning one of the progressives in the bonus round, and increases your odds of winning one of the bigger progressives.