Showdown Poker machine, circa 1972

[Op-Bell]

Superjoker, I'd like to see a picture of the Showdown Poker, when you have a moment. Conventional wisdom says that the first automatic paying poker machine was the 1967 Dale Pokermatic, but someone once mentioned to me that there was an earlier machine. He couldn't remember what it was called or who made it, but recalled that it had a single coin slicer payout instead of a hopper.

Oh by the way, welcome to the forum!

[StatFreak]

Super Joker, those machines look very clean (at least on the outside ). I would also like to see a picture of your Showdown Poker.

[Super Joker]

I'll try to take a pic of it and get it posted. They used Bally EM cabinets, less the handle, so it utilized the same hopper payout. If I remember correctly, 5 coin max (nickels). The entire slot stand houses the electronics (which weren't really electronics back then!).

I believe that it's claim to fame was that it was the world's first "electronic" draw poker. I know there were some mechanical units previous to these.

I've never been able to find any info on them, other than from the old slot distributors in Reno, who were really interested in it when I mentioned it to them (years ago when I first bought it).

I bought it from a retired Nevada fire chief who lived in Reno - he had a basement full of machines that he was getting rid of, that he'd picked up or was given over the years. Apparently, the casinos were doing favors and giving gifts, even in the 70's and early 80's, for favorable inspections/reports (he didn't pay for any of his machines, they were all "gifts").

[Op-Bell]

I think I've seen one, then. It has a complete deck of cards painted on the front glass and backlights the cards that are dealt.

[Neonkiss]

I bought it from a retired Nevada fire chief who lived in Reno. Apparently, the casinos were doing favors and giving gifts, even in the 70's and early 80's, for favorable inspections/reports (he didn't pay for any of his machines, they were all "gifts").

I don't think I've ever heard of such a thing....  

[uniman]

I bought it from a retired Nevada fire chief who lived in Reno. Apparently, the casinos were doing favors and giving gifts, even in the 70's and early 80's, for favorable inspections/reports (he didn't pay for any of his machines, they were all "gifts").

I don't think I've ever heard of such a thing....  

Getting off the thread subject...In Las Vegas a county commissioner is up in arms about a county report showing that the "average" earnings of Vegas firefighters is $180,000 including benifits. Don't think they included free slots as benifits. 
I really believe the report is distorted in some form as that is usually the case.
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=12001942

[Super Joker]

OK, went out to the barn/shop and took a couple pics. I need to note I just set up the front plate of the topper, and not the complete topper, as it's disassembled and in a box.

3 coin nickel, I'd love to have seen that payout on a draw poker!

Oh, and you can see my concession popcorn machine in the background of the main pic (LOL!)

[Super Joker]

Last two pics...

What's funny is that the electronics that could be used to do the same thing today could fit on a single chip.

[stayouttadabunker]

wow...no shortage of boards in that machine! lol
Thanks for showing us that...it's a beauty!
The hinges are definitely Bally hinges....very strong.
They are way better than IGT's cheap piano hinges.
That spiral piece coming out of the center of your hopper...what in the world is that?
I've never seen that before?
It's a very, very different hopper set-up indeed!

[brichter]

That spiral piece coming out of the center of your hopper...what in the world is that?

That's the corkscrew to open your bottle of wine while you're filling the hopper...

[Op-Bell]

That spiral piece coming out of the center of your hopper...what in the world is that?

My Bally Computer Poker has one of those. It's a kind of Archimedes screw. It's attached to the disk and turns when the hopper runs. When the hopper is full enough that the coins reach it, it "screws" the top layer to the right, where they fall out of the open end of the hopper bowl into the cash can.

I'm pretty sure from looking at the pictures, especially the hopper, that the date of this machine falls between the Dale Pokermatic and the Bally Computer Poker, round about 1972. A glance at the types and date codes of the logic chips on the boards would settle that. The Dale Pokermatic used all 930 series RTL chips because 74 series TTL wasn't available in 1967. The Bally Computer Poker (1973-1980) was all 74 series TTL.

[KirkLasVegas]

That spiral piece coming out of the center of your hopper...what in the world is that?

My Bally Computer Poker has one of those. It's a kind of Archimedes screw. It's attached to the disk and turns when the hopper runs. When the hopper is full enough that the coins reach it, it "screws" the top layer to the right, where they fall out of the open end of the hopper bowl into the cash can.

I'm pretty sure from looking at the pictures, especially the hopper, that the date of this machine falls between the Dale Pokermatic and the Bally Computer Poker, round about 1972. A glance at the types and date codes of the logic chips on the boards would settle that. The Dale Pokermatic used all 930 series RTL chips because 74 series TTL wasn't available in 1967. The Bally Computer Poker (1973-1980) was all 74 series TTL.

If it was any earlier it would have mercury vapor rectifiers in it instead of diodes

Kirk

[Super Joker]

That spiral piece coming out of the center of your hopper...what in the world is that?

My Bally Computer Poker has one of those. It's a kind of Archimedes screw. It's attached to the disk and turns when the hopper runs. When the hopper is full enough that the coins reach it, it "screws" the top layer to the right, where they fall out of the open end of the hopper bowl into the cash can.

I'm pretty sure from looking at the pictures, especially the hopper, that the date of this machine falls between the Dale Pokermatic and the Bally Computer Poker, round about 1972. A glance at the types and date codes of the logic chips on the boards would settle that. The Dale Pokermatic used all 930 series RTL chips because 74 series TTL wasn't available in 1967. The Bally Computer Poker (1973-1980) was all 74 series TTL.

There are no logic chips in this machine. It's all resistors, caps, diodes and transistors. And a couple of relays. LOL, each board is an "old school" logic chip, the most simplest form of and, nor, nand, or, etc., gates. I wish I had a schematic for this, it would then be pretty easy to make an equivalent board.

Speaking of the boards; these apparently were a high-maintenance machine. Lots of components have been replaced, traces resoldered, and so on.

I haven't studied it enough to figure out how they did the RNG for card selection. But there was definitely some thinking that went into this machine.

 

[Super Joker]

In regards to the date of mfg; I was told by one of the older slot/vending repair companies in Reno that these machines were made in the 60's, and that Currency Gaming Devices, which was formed in the 60's, was only around for a few years before being bought out by Bally. Lack of any TTL chips in the design (which was an advanced design) helps to support this. It looks like Si Redd bought Bally Distributing in 1967, and Bally Distributing bought Currency Gaming right before that. I found another article that discusses the experimentation of these specialty machines from small manufacturers in the mid 60's, and Dale Electronics, Gamex, etc., are also included.

Most of the time that I'm down in Reno (few times a year) it's on the weekends, so most places are closed, including government facilities, so it's hard to research this game.

I hadn't really thought about this old game for a long time, it was just my intention to hang onto it, and maybe donate it to a slot museum some day. I'm really surprised there isn't one, I'm sure that's been a topic a time or two in other threads. LOL, anyone wanna go in and create a museum? Living space above, museum below, and actually have working machines for people to play! If it was in Nevada, might even be able to get the state to provide some grant $$$.

[Op-Bell]

Very, very interesting! Great pics, great PDF too. I know O'Donnell was a player, and had undisclosed personal interests in a number of gaming companies while he was head of Bally. He deliberately took Bally into bankruptcy at least once, maybe twice, to rid it of uncooperative bankers, and had proxies step in to buy the company back on his own behalf. So the financial shenanigans described in the PDF look absolutely typical to me. I'll ask Mickey Wichinsky about it next time I see him - Westronics was his company and he still trades under that name from time to time.

It's looking like the Showdown has priority over the Dale. I still have a little doubt, as the PCBs appear to be drawn by a CAD program and the transistor packages are of a kind that didn't appear until the very late 1960s. That doesn't necessarily prove anything, as the game was probably made for a number of years and this could be a late one. The transistor gate technology is pure DEC, and the earliest PCB CAD program I know of ran on a DEC computer - even IBM still designed their boards by hand as late as 1972 - so I wonder if the designers were ex-DEC or possibly moonlighting.

[Super Joker]

Very, very interesting! Great pics, great PDF too. I know O'Donnell was a player, and had undisclosed personal interests in a number of gaming companies while he was head of Bally. He deliberately took Bally into bankruptcy at least once, maybe twice, to rid it of uncooperative bankers, and had proxies step in to buy the company back on his own behalf. So the financial shenanigans described in the PDF look absolutely typical to me. I'll ask Mickey Wichinsky about it next time I see him - Westronics was his company and he still trades under that name from time to time.

It's looking like the Showdown has priority over the Dale. I still have a little doubt, as the PCBs appear to be drawn by a CAD program and the transistor packages are of a kind that didn't appear until the very late 1960s. That doesn't necessarily prove anything, as the game was probably made for a number of years and this could be a late one. The transistor gate technology is pure DEC, and the earliest PCB CAD program I know of ran on a DEC computer - even IBM still designed their boards by hand as late as 1972 - so I wonder if the designers were ex-DEC or possibly moonlighting.

I know this has kind of gotten off topic, and I apologize, but it's really great "talking shop" on some of this stuff. And I can point this out to my wife and say "see, I'm not the ONLY nut that's into this type of stuff!".

I think that there is a combination of original and updated cards in my machine, as some components are obviously older and then there's others in newer packages. I wouldn't doubt that they were supported for awhile (some of these cards have the masking tape with tested dates up to '79). Man, with electronics tolerances back then, and the ac power not being the cleanest, I'm surprised these things even worked for a week, let alone a year.

Thank you again for the responses

[StatFreak]

Another K+ to you and to Op-Bell, and thanks for sharing all of those pictures and the history of the machine.



<P.S.> I split these posts into a new topic so that this information will be not get buried in the home game room thread.

StatFreak
 Global Moderator

[Op-Bell]

Thanks Stat for splitting out a new topic! K+

Regarding a slot museum, there used to be a few, but as the owners died or retired the collections have been split up and sold off. The Liberty Belle Saloon was the best of them, owned by two grandsons of Charlie Fey, the man who invented the 3 reel slot machine. It was closed and sold off in 2006. Some of the oldest and most valuable pieces, including an original Fey Liberty Bell, went to the Nevada State Museum in Carson City where they can be seen but not touched. A nice collection from Virginia City was sold off last year. It had a good number of early electronic machines, though not a Showdown Poker. I bought a couple of pieces and would have bought more, but I don't have the space to put them. The Pinball Hall of Fame in Las Vegas is the most remarkable collection open to the public. You can play all the machines, though these are nearly all pinballs and there are no slots as I recall. The restrictive and costly gaming license is probably the reason for that. If these were the good old days, perhaps some friendly casino owner would take an interest in setting up a slot museum, but unfortunately, these days the owners are in New York and couldn't give a shit about history, or indeed anything except the next quarterly balance sheet.

[reho33]

Yep, sad but true.

[Super Joker]

Thanks for splitting this off.

I used to frequent the Liberty Bell in Reno every time I'd go down. Great food, and I'd always check out the old slots. And I think that you always got orange sherbert for dessert.

Again, off topic, but I've noticed machine prices have dropped in the last year on machines like S+'s. Is this also holding true on the antiques?

[jay]

The S2000, Vision and Igames are now readily available. This is pinching the prices of the S+ and equivelent vintage units as there are still lots out there with few buyers. There is also the whole economy thing that happened.

The real antiques have held their values or have increased slightly abliet there has been a few go for less than market as people were desperate for some cash.