Bally 873 Coin Lockout problem

[essmeier]

I have a Bally 873 that's having a problem.  All of the coins are going into the hopper, and none into the coin box below.  This causes the hopper to overflow.  The coin lockout coil seems to be engaged all the time, so even though it's a five coin machine, it won't stop me from putting more coins in.

Questions:

1. When the machine is working properly, what determines when coins go into the hopper and when they go into the coin box underneath?
2. Any idea why the coin lockout coil would be engaged all the time?

I saw another post here about a problem with the lockout coil and a long list of contacts/switches to check out.  I just want to make sure there's not something obvious I should look for first.

Thanks,

Charlie

[RiseLikeRa]

Charlie:

I am FAR from an expert on these machines but I just wanted to offer some info since you did not have any replies.  What determines where the coin goes after inserted is either a switch attacted to a float ball that drops into the hopper ans the coins there deminishes OR similar switch atteched to the bottom front left side of the hopper.  The second one is activated by the weight of the coins in the hopper.  When the hopper empties it moves slightly higher and the switch is activated.  BOTH switches can be heard when you manually activate and deactivate them.  These switches activate a coin attached to a silver metal diverter located in the door.  I hope that this novice information helps you in some way.

[StatFreak]

Charlie:

I am FAR from an expert on these machines but I just wanted to offer some info since you did not have any replies.  What determines where the coin goes after inserted is either a switch attacted to a float ball that drops into the hopper ans the coins there deminishes OR similar switch atteched to the bottom front left side of the hopper.  The second one is activated by the weight of the coins in the hopper.  When the hopper empties it moves slightly higher and the switch is activated.  BOTH switches can be heard when you manually activate and deactivate them.  These switches activate a coin coil attached to a silver metal diverter located in the door.  I hope that this novice information helps you in some way.

I thought I'd correct the small typo, just in case it confused Charlie.
Not intending to butt in...

Stat
  Global Moderator

[essmeier]

Thanks for the replies.  The part about the ball-activated switch makes sense, although I could swear that in the past, some coins were going in the coin box even when the hopper wasn't full.  Still, the main issue right now is figuring out why the lockout coil is always engaged.

Thoughts on that are welcome.

Charlie

[StatFreak]

Thanks for the replies.  The part about the ball-activated switch makes sense, although I could swear that in the past, some coins were going in the coin box even when the hopper wasn't full.  Still, the main issue right now is figuring out why the lockout coil is always engaged.

Thoughts on that are welcome.

Charlie

Just as an FYI, the lockout coil is the the coil that moves the plate that prevents the coins from going into the hopper when the power is off, after max coins have been inserted and during play. It is normally energized when the machine is on and in idle mode. It diverts coins to the tray when de-energized. It deflects the coin with a little tab that sticks through a hole in the middle of the coin mech.

The coil you're having issues with is called the diverter coil and is located below and to the left of the coin mech. When activated it pulls in that spatula-like bent blade below the coin mech and diverts coins into the hopper. When de-energized the coins fall through to the overflow and into the stand (if you have a hole ).

------------------

First, let me say that like RiseLikeRa, I am also FAR from an expert on these machines.

The diverter blade often sticks when it becomes dirty or if you have a weak spring. Have you checked it with the power off? It should move freely. It should also pop out as soon as you power off the machine. If it doesn't, then it needs adjusting and cleaning. I've had mine stick several times over the years when they get dirty or the machines have sat idle for a while.

If it's a weak spring, you can shorten the spring and create a new loop to make it stronger. If it's dirt (more common problem, I think), take a piece of paper (a piece of a brown paper bag works well) and lightly wet it with alcohol. WITH POWER OFF, put the paper flat between the coil and the blade plate, push the plate firmly, but gently against the coil and pull the paper through. Don't push hard enough to tear the paper. Do this a few times.

Clean and adjust the pivot point of the diverter arm as well.

Once you've got the blade moving freely with the power off, turn on the machine with the float lowered (hopper empty position). The coil should energize and pull in the blade. Now lift the float and check to see if the coil loses power. If not, then you have an electrical problem.


Finally, do you have a DVM? Can you check for voltage at the coil? It should be about 50VAC across the coil when energized, and about 0VAC when de-energized.



I'll leave it to our EM experts to help with the electrical troubleshooting if it's not a mechanical problem.


Stat

[essmeier]

Yes, it seems to be the diverter coil that's we've been talking about.  Forgive me for the error; I've got some hard-to-read documentation.

OK, here's an update.  The diverter coil seems to be working properly now that I've mostly emptied the hopper.  The coil engages at power up, but when I lift the ball switch, the diverter coil disengages as it should.  For some reason, it wasn't working before, or the hopper wouldn't have gotten full to the point that coins were falling out of it.

However, I still have an issue with the coin mechanism. It's a five coin machine, but there's nothing to prevent me from putting in 6, or 10, or 25. It just takes them all.  Isn't refusing more than the maximum number of coins a function of the lockout coil?

Charlie

[StatFreak]

Yes it is.

That's one for Foxsslots or maybe Op-Bell.


<ADD> Does the lockout coil ever work?  With no coins inserted, try pulling the handle. The lockout coil should disengage (locking out the coin) when the handle is moved from the resting position and should re-engage when you release the handle.

Also, the same physical checks apply as before. Make sure the spring is good, that the lockout plate moves freely, and that it's open (rejects coins) with the power off.

[StatFreak]

...The part about the ball-activated switch makes sense, ...

...The diverter coil seems to be working properly now that I've mostly emptied the hopper.  The coil engages at power up, but when I lift the ball switch, the diverter coil disengages as it should.  For some reason, it wasn't working before, or the hopper wouldn't have gotten full to the point that coins were falling out of it.

Now that I've reread your posts, it occurs to me that the ball level/switch might need adjustment.

[essmeier]

Well, don't I feel dumb...

No wonder I was confused about what's what in the door of the machine.  There. Is. No. Lockout. Coil.

There might have been one there once upon a time, but the only coil in the door is the diverter coil.  So, of course, there's nothing to reject coins if the power is off, nor is there any mechanism to tell the machine that it has already accepted the maximum number of coins.

I thought I had two related problems:

1. Accepting more coins than needed for play.
2. Overflowing hopper.

It turns out that there was only one - the hopper problem, and I don't know what caused the overflow.  Even that seems to be working correctly now as the diverter coil does seem to properly disengage when the ball/lever in the hopper is activated.

The nonexistent lockout coil isn't really a "problem", per se, as I know how many coins to put in the machine and the mechanism that would prevent putting too many coins in the game simply isn't there.  I guess, at this time, everything is working as well as it's going to.  I'll run a bunch of coins through it and see if the diverter continues to work properly.

Thanks for all the help.

Charlie

[StatFreak]

 

Now would be the time to post some good closeup pictures of the inside of the door, perhaps with and without the coin mech in place. There's a good chance that Foxsslots or another member might have the parts you need to get your machine running the way it should.


Stat

[essmeier]

Here are some images.





Not sure what I'm looking for parts-wise, but it appears that the coil was mounted to the right of the coin mechanism and has been removed.  I'm guessing that the wire nut on the right has the wires that originally went to the lockout coil.

Charlie

[golflover]

I'll check the door on my 1094 and post a picture if it is similar. That might give you ideas on parts needed. Your picture looks like the inside of my door, might be a little different. I'll check when I get home from work later tonight, of course someone might beat me to it. 

[FOXSSLOTS1]

you are missing all the lockout parts - coil thru armature - that is why all your coins are going into the machine - I notice a molex connector to the right of the coin acceptor assy.    For home use - the parts are ofter left off machines.   

[essmeier]

It's not a Molex connector; it's a wire nut. I think the two wires for the nonexistent coil are simply shorted together to complete the circuit as though the coil were present.  No big deal, as it IS  a home use machine.  Having the parts probably just creates more potential points of failure.

I guess I'm good.

Charlie