Interesting Statistics Question

[jdkmunch]

I have this nice alpha-  love it

It's set to 95% payback.   I've discovered that I can make the internal progressive work.    This fact alone keeps me playing and playing (something about watching the amounts increase)  anyway I digress.    The first time I set this up I put in (by mistake) $2000.00, $5000.00 and $10,000 for the progressive amounts.   I thought that i was putting in credits not dollar amounts.   

If I left three diamonds, the easiest to get, as $2000 would the frequency of three diamonds coming out change? 


I would guess it has to?  otherwise the 95% payback would be messed up right?   

I set it to $100 now and I'm going to keep track of how long it takes me to hit the three diamonds.    Then I'll change it back to $2000 and see if it changes the payout frequency.

interesting

[kforeman]

i doubt that the reset amounts affect the payback percentage.  the only Alphas we still have on our floor are linked progressive so i'm not sure but Konami is the only manufacturer i know of that calculates the reset amounts into the stand alone progressives; and those are hard coded so we can't change the resets.
did you have to set your incrementation rate?  that's where you'll see your prog meter speed up if you raise that %.
i'm curious to learn the results of your experiment.  are you going to ram clear the game when you change the resets as well?

[Foster]

Progressive setups are not allowed to change the outcome of the game, in any way.

Most of the time a progressive actually increases the payback percentage over the life of the game. which can also affect payback percentage in the short-term.

The base amounts will change the payback percentage if they are higher than the none progressive amount.
If they are lower the machine should payback the standard none progressive amount until the progressive amount is higher than none progressive amounts.

Remember if a particular win happens every 2K spins changing its win amount should not decrease the hit frequency.
remember the RNG and virtual reel stops determine the outcome The progressive system can not change either one of those.

[kforeman]

The base amounts will change the payback percentage if they are higher than the none progressive amount.
If they are lower the machine should payback the standard none progressive amount until the progressive amount is higher than none progressive amounts.

correct me if i'm wrong here Foster but raising the base amount won't change the way the game plays; it'll just change the way it pays.
it's kinda tough for me to type out what i'm trying to explain but because the pay is higher than the par sheet accounts for the winning combination then it's the total pays amount that's skewed.  this would change the par on the game but this wouldn't really affect the hit frequency or total hits for each combination.
sorry if that sounds completely confusing; i'm feeling a little inarticulate right now for some reason. 

[jdkmunch]

i doubt that the reset amounts affect the payback percentage.  the only Alphas we still have on our floor are linked progressive so i'm not sure but Konami is the only manufacturer i know of that calculates the reset amounts into the stand alone progressives; and those are hard coded so we can't change the resets.
did you have to set your incrementation rate?  that's where you'll see your prog meter speed up if you raise that %.
i'm curious to learn the results of your experiment.  are you going to ram clear the game when you change the resets as well?

yes I was able to set the increments rate  - I made the lowest amount .75. To chnge the fastest
And unfortunately I must do a ram clear to change the amounts.
After the first change it gets locked in.

I can make three diamonds 10,000 if I like

[Foster]

Basically when you add any progressive especially a multiple level progressive the payback to player should increase over the long term (may or may not do so in the short term)

[jay]

The slot has a payback of xx%
This is based on statistical wins over 10mm spins or more.
It also takes in account the paytable displayed on the glass.
Nothing changes this chance of winning.

When a progressive is added it typically takes the place of the top award and the base (starting value) should be at the same $$ value as what the top award should be.
This keeps the statistical payback at xx%

The contribution amount (typically 1/8%) is added to the progressive amount for each coin added.
This 1/8% is written off by the casino (against their taxes) as a marketing fee.
This works out to be 1c for every 8 quarters played.

When the top award is hit instead of paying the zz$ top award it pays the progressive amount which should be the zz$ + the additional funds collected in the progressive fund.

For new games sometimes the manufacturer will put in a very high progressive award of 1 million dollars.
In this case the top award might actually be something like $25K but is over ridden by the progressive amount.
The progressive does not increment upwards from the 1mm until the amount in the progressive fund reaches and then exceeds the 1 mil.

The statistical chances of hitting the top award are quite low (statistically proven to the Nevada gaming board as part of the slot certification process) and as such the manufacturer will buy an insurance policy against the 1mm. So even if the policy costs the manufacturer as much as 100k this cost is recovered by the manufacturer as part of the lease to the casino.
The casino then writes off its portion of the insurance fee as marketing etc etc.

Some less than scrupilious operators (Bars in West Virgina, Africa, Caribiean, etc) sometimes lower the top award. The top award is typically hand pay so nothing really tells you what the top award payout is unless you know. So if its supposed to be 25000 coins, its not unusual to see these at 15000 coins. In effect the Casino has just added 5% to their pockets using this lower payout.

[jdkmunch]

Interesting  -


That sounds like fun to me -  I can make the lowest progressive hit (three diamonds)  which does come out frequently  - a very high amount and I should hit it often!

[idesign]

Bally's web site indicates the hit frequency on this game to be 49.37%.  THey also show the progressive setup as $10, $100 and $1,000.  The $10 must hit often for it to be that low.

[jay]

I can understand why the fixed base amount for a progressive.
This would correspond with the top award for the machine.
Anything less would actually favor the house.