pin board repair

[2Moons]

Take a deep breath, relax, focus on the main problem. #1 get the power supply & the connectors up to snuff. Once you get this done, the other goofey problems that you having may well go away. First and formost, Get the power supply & connectors squared away. Here is a link to a place to get replacement parts. This should get you pointed in the right direction.
http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com/index.htm Take a look around this suite, and I belive you will get the idea, right real quick.
Good Luck 2Moons

[jay]

Given our long time history with STOUT, his auto-bet options and remote control contraptions...... I am not discounting that 14000 games got mysteriously played over night..... 

On a serious note K+ to both of you. Good thread - I am learning lots and thanks for the link to the power connectors.

[stayouttadabunker]

I went shopping at Big Daddy's...I think I bought the store...lol
Now eagerly awaiting the parts for restoration...this is kinda fun really...
It's just like rebuilding or restoring S+'s in a way...you take your time and get a nice finished machine!

[stayouttadabunker]

Put in a new rectifier board today in the 1978 Stern Stars pinball machine.
i still have the same problems with the game tilting.
When the ball runs over the 500pt rollover,
(there's two rollovers, one up top and another in the middle of the field above the flippers)
the game tilts and I lose the entire credit.
I cannot get it to allow me to play more than one player.
I also can never play more than one ball either.
When I miss the ball with my flippers and it goes down in the hole, the machine tilts and I lose the entire game/credit.
When I push the credit button, the game loads up, a ball gets ejected out
onto the right-outer start lane, but tilts when it goes over the rollovers.
I checked out the rollover switches...they seem okay to me? They're not stuck or anything.
Think something's wrong with the game chips?
Is there a way to clear the ram.
Would it help?
This machine now has a new rectifier and a new SDU-100 board.
I've already spent more in boards, and parts than what I actually paid for it! arghhhh!
help!

[galahad]

Check for any closed switches on playfield. Switches might be sending false info to mpu if closed. Also might be bad diodes on sw"s. If you have a print find all of the sw's on the sw matrix that are associated with the 500pt rollover sw. Might be a place to start. Bad diodes send funny signals. Check clay's repair guide again on the pinrepair site. Good luck!
Jim!

[stayouttadabunker]

I was reading some of the information on those switch diodes...
I understand that I need to remove one end and read them-
How do I set up my multi-meter to check them?
The diodes keep the power from going backwards I think?

[dragster73]

The first thing you can do is put the machine in the switch test mode. Once you are there you will want to go through the switches on the playfield and make sure that the switch you push corresponds to the switch number in the manual.

Another thing you can try is this. Once you have a game started you should be able to unplug the connector from the bottom right corner of the CPU board. This plug is for the switches on the coin door. See if the problem remains.

Is there Corrosion on the CPU board from the battery leaking? Is it near the molex plug on the bottom right corner? If so you could be getting crosstalk through the corrosion.

You mentioned that the game would not keep it's settings and that there were something like 1400 plays on it after setting all night. If you have no battery hooked up then this is what will happen. the Cmos ram will get corrupted. Also the Cmos ram (5101) can have corrosion inside the socket where it is plugged in . This could be The cause of the switch problem also. When these Ram go bad they can cause the game to do all sorts of strange things.

One last thing you can try if you have the pinout for the playfield is put the game in test mode and remove the upper right connector from the
cpu board. This is the connector that goes to the playfield switches. Once removed if you know what your doing you can activate each switch one at a time by jumping the correct pins together. If all switches light correctly on the display then you know your problem is in the playfield.

[jay]

Diodes are a one way device. To check a diode first it must be removed from the circuit. Secondly you check it using a multimeter set to resistance.

Current flows from Positive to Negative ..... So to look at a diode you will likey see it described like something like the following. ------>|------
Use your RED lead on the Left side and your BLACK on the right.  You should be able to get continuity one way but if you reverse your leads it should not give you any reading.  Its bad if you get continuity in both directions or no continuity at all. With that said if you have an idiot proof automated meter that auto reverses polarity (to stop the meter from blowing) check to see if it has a specific diode setting as these don't work well for fine electronic uses.

 

[stayouttadabunker]

awesome suggestions guys,
I will go through these tests monday evening after work...
I will post an update on my findings as soon as I get through them....

[pinballfixer2]

Do the switch matrix tests as described. The diodes are very reliable and ususally not the problem. On many of those older games they used small disc capacitors across the switch to widen the pulse to the cpu. For some reason they become leaky and cause wierd switch matrix problems as you describe. The capacitors are not nessasary for the game or switches to work. I suggest removing 1 side of each cap 1 at a time until you find the one that cures your problem, or remove them all perminately. One moe possibility is a shorted wire going to the coin door. After putting on credits, and starting a game, unplug the door and see if the problem still exists. Feel free to call me for any assistance.
Tom
410-833-8070

[2Moons]

Hello
Long about now this probably the last thing that you want to here, but you are at the point where you need to start ruling some things out. (If you don't know what it is - find out what it isn't.) If you swap out the MPU board you can rule out about 90% of where the problem is. I have used these replacement MPU boards & they are great.
http://www.allteksystems.com/
It will cost you some money, but it is better than chasing your tail in a circle.
Good Luck 2Moons

[stayouttadabunker]

thanks to everyone...
I ordered one of those Alltek MPU boards...
It's not a cheap fix at all ,
but I want to see if it's indeed the motherboard that's causing all of this...
By the way,
I've tried disconnecting different molexes (sometimes the playtable,the door,etc.) to see what's up...
but I'm still getting these weird play symptoms.
That's why I ordered a new board.
I will keep everyone updated when it comes in....
the board seems pretty cool having a number of game titles dip-switchable...hmm...

[Frank A]

I didn't see any prices on the site. How much are they ?

Frank

[stayouttadabunker]

well, mine was $199.00....
like I said not cheap but I can't wait to get it!...LOL

Click on this link to the Bally/Stern MPU board >>>

http://www.allteksystems.com/

[2Moons]

Hello Stayouttabunker
I believe you have made a good decision. If you read the sheet that comes with the Alltek board, set the dip switches & follow the directions. The installation is a no brain-er. The MPU is the heart & brain of your pinball. It controls over 90% of what goes on in your machine. I'm betting this will solve the goofy intermitt ant problems that you are having. The original MPU boards, after 30 years of service are a garden for cold solder joints. This along with the el cheapo chip sockets that they used & a little corrosion from a leaking battery will cause all sorts of problems. The good news is these old CPU boards can be updated, repaired & put back in service. If your good at soldering you can do it your self and the parts don't cost a lot of money. Or there are a lot of good board repair shops out there. After you get the original MPU repaired & back in service, you can keep the Alltek board in your tool box for the next pinball that you need to repair. The alltek board switch hits on so many differant machines that it has made my life a lot easier many times.
Good Luck 2Moons

[stayouttadabunker]

You're right!
I got the alltek board in yesterday     and installed it last night!  
It was a piece of cake....!
I played the crap outta it for hours!!!!!

So it was the MPU board...jeesh !..., after all the frigging fiddling around with the bloody power supply,
under table wiring,switches and solenoid diodes,checking for this, checking for that arghhh!!!!  

I learned a lot about my Stern Stars pinball machine though....
now I'm gonna do some mods....lol  
I gotta make one of those ball return gates...
How can I do that?..... lol

[2Moons]

Hello Stayouttadabunker:
It's good to here that your story has a happy ending. You had ask about a ball return spring, because these are made out of spring steel, they are very difficult to make. this link may take you to what you need. http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MX-12-6857&Category_Code=

I don't know what condition the rubber on your pinball is in. New rubber will make it play like a new machine. Check this out.
http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RK-98&Category_Code=GS-2366&Product_Count=0
Remember - Stayouttadabunker & Good Luck 2Moons

[stayouttadabunker]

haha...yeah, I already installed new rubbers and stuff from some kit I got a month ago...

As far as the "spring steel"...
I really meant to make one of these and put it on my machine.
I outlined the area I wanted to modify...
Click on the picture to enlarge it!
I'd like it to open when I get all the targets down when the "WOW!" is complete.
Could this mechanism be called a "Ball Divertor"?
Maybe I can somehow get it to stay open for like 30 seconds or so?
Could I wire the gate in sync somehow when all the targets are knocked down?...
( The first picture is just some picture I got off the internet...It's not my Stern "Stars" pinball machine)
The second lower picture is where I want to install a gate on my "Stars" game>>>

[2Moons]

Hello
That's a good looking pinball, (looks like a keeper to me). I don't know what you would call that little gismo. If you have a Stern manual, look up the part # & nomenclature, search it on line & I'll bet you can find one.
Good Luck 2Moons

[BJones]

I would advise not to try a modification such as that.  The software doesn't support something like that, nor is their wiring in place to support it either.  Plus, you'd be butchering up a very nice looking classic Stern.  A great looking Stern Stars is hard to come by (there are not that many left out there), please......please.....please don't ruin it!

[slotsteve]

Yes thats when stern  build pins that lasted the cheap crap gary makes now is a sin  , Must be nice to be only game maker left

[stayouttadabunker]

I didn't do it... 
First of all, the machine was sitting in a barn for who knows how long.
The place was damp and cold...I looked around the barn and
every tool that was laying around was rusted.
All the metal in the machine was actually starting to rust and
the guy I got it from used the play-field as a table top for his tools and junk.
The glass was scratched like heck...this pinball was NOT taken good care of.
I've taken the time to clean, polish and sandpaper, prime and
paint everything back to as original as possible.
I've spent a lot of time replacing various play-field parts to
get the machine looking really respectable again and working properly.
The battery had corroded the MPU and THAT needed major repair.
Many board components and various switch diodes were shot,
I completely rebuilt the solenoid board according to
the marvin website (Which is a fabulous pinball repair site! ).
The solenoid puts out all the correct power at the various test TP points.
The power supply board is brand new, which is great because it puts out all the various power correctly now.
I got the Alltek MPU board with the tester card which is a blessing!
Gotta admit though, after all the money and time I was putting into it, I wanted to...
So, with all this in mind...
The way I feel is that whatever modifications I make to
enhance MY enjoyment of this pinball machine is entirely up to me and
I will not accept second class repairs or mods...
I am making totally sure that whatever I do is done only in the topmost way.
I am restoring this machine as best as I can and I don't go move forward until
I do a lot of research and get as much information about
what I want to do as possible before I move on.
You can do a restoration to where it's as close to original as possible or
you can do a restoration and upgrade it to the way YOU want it so YOU can get what YOU want out of it...
I already installed a nice bell that rings in accordance with the "Knocker"...it's sweet!

I have a question...
I have a nice, red ambulance light/beacon that rotates...
It needs power to run the bulb and to run the motor that rotates it.
It takes 12Vac and needs about 850mA.
The power supply has 12Vac coming out of the transformer at pins 15 and 16.
Running a wire to those points enables the beacon to operate correctly.
I want the beacon to turn on for the duration of when the "Shoot Again" playfield light is lit up.
That "Shoot Again" lite turns off when you lose the ball.
The bulb in the "Shoot Again" playfield light is a #47 6.3Vdc bayonet style ( maybe 25 Watts?) that draws .15Amps.

What are the correct specifications for a relay?
And, should there be a 1N4001 in place in front of the relay switch?

Any help on this would be great!

[Foster]

Wattage of 47 bulb is about 0.9Watts

P=I x E

P = Power in watts
I  = Currrent in amps
E = Volts

I have seen small diodes connected in parallel to the coil relays
Honda did on the 2001 and newer Goldwings.
The diode was reverse biased so it would not be a direct short.
I am not sure what the real reason they did it.

You could but a 1N4001 diode in series with a 5V Relay that would get the 6.3V down to approximately 5.5V
Use relay that the coil only needs about 50-100mA.
I would not exceed 150mA.
 
 

[Op-Bell]

I have seen small diodes connected in parallel to the coil relays
...
The diode was reverse biased so it would not be a direct short.
I am not sure what the real reason they did it.

It's to dump the magnetic energy out of the core. When you apply voltage, current flows and the core becomes magnetized - that's why the relay pulls in (duh). When you break the circuit to drop out the relay, the magnetic field starts to collapse, which tries to maintain the current flowing (principle of inductors). Since the circuit is open, the voltage rises until current flows again. The energy has to go somewhere, and by hook or by crook it will, making enough voltage to arc a contact or break down a transistor. The diode across the coil provides a path for the current to flow round until the energy dissipates, without reaching a damaging voltage. All solid state circuitry with relays has diodes across the coils. If you can't see them, that's because they're wired in out of sight somewhere, maybe inside a chip.

Here's how to connect a 6V DC relay across a 6V AC lamp. In this case, D1 provides the DC, and D2 provides a current path during the "off" half of the AC to keep the current flowing so that the relay doesn't buzz too badly. A typical 6V relay with 3A contacts will be about 60 to 100 ohms resistance. If that's too much current for the driver, you can always connect the lamp to one of the contacts.

[stayouttadabunker]

I tried a (SPST) single pull single throw 5VDC Reed Relay that's rated 0.5A at 125VAC...
It has two contacts for the 6.3Vdc coil that is switching (open and closing) the 12VAC beacon wires.
The specs for this relay is as follows:
Voltage: 5VDC
Coil Resistance:250Ohms
Contact Rating:0.5A at 125VAC
Nominal Current:20mA

When I hooked this up to the bulb's 6.3 Volt directly, it worked for a bit...
but after a few times the coil wouldn't "open" the 12VAC line to shut off the beacon...
I had to physically un-solder the 12VAC line to the relay coil to shut off the beacon.

I was not using any diodes connecting to this relay using the playfield 6.3 VDC bulb to the relay coil.
The beacon's positive 12VAC was connected to other side of the relay...
The relay seemed to stay locked (closed) and the beacon wouldn't shut off when the playfield light went out.
Plus, for lie about 15 seconds,  the 6.3Vdc bulb would be very, very dim while the beacon was "On",
then it would get very bright and wouldn't shut off the beacon.
Something isn't right on my hook up.

The relay won't shut off the beacon...like it's "stuck"?
Too much voltage to the coil, but not enough to keep the playfield light bright?
 If this is so, how do I reduce the DC voltage to the coil from the bulb?
Maybe because the coil is using 12dc while the other side of the relay
is using Vac screwing up the relay from working correctly?

ADD>> oh!,
The coil got magnetized? That's why it couldn't get un-stuck (re-open)?
okay, so, for the coil I have (the SPST 5VDC reed relay) I need to add a 1N4002?
Will it release the 6.3VDC voltage powering the relay's coil?