S+ Wild Cherry Cleared code 21 now shows 1 in coin played 1 in winner paid

[stayouttadabunker]

Bunker  Coin optics   ????????????????     Coins are going to the tray.                   

Yes...but he's already adjusted the Coin Sensitivity potentiometer pot dial, checked the magnetic coil rake divertor,
the rake wires, the coin mech wires, and checked the comparator coin.
The only other things he can do is tie back the CC "rake" !
( or remove the rake altogether or even... heaven forbid - bend the rake completely backwards!!!!)

Another thing to try is get into the machine tests and do the ABC optic tests -
but that would probably take about 25 more posts to cover.

Other things a more experienced S+ homeowner can do is adjust and balance the coin comparator coils.
But I have NEVER, EVER heard of an S+ homeowner having the proper tools to perform or even try this? 
I've done it many times but it's usually not THE problem anyways.
Usually, it's a bad IC component on the interior circuit board of a 20+ year old coin comp.
For example, an old overworked, overheated, burned out-of-spec diode, capacitor, or resistor.

Normally, if one has extra parts, they could swap the coin comparator altogether with
either a known working CC, or a new CC circuit board.

It doesn't hurt for a slot homeowner to cut the Q2 chip off on the coin-in optic boards anyways - it can ONLY help. 
The machine does NOT need that kind of security as it will never be on a "live" casino floor again.
Also, it never hurts the resale value of the machine either because any future, prospective S+ buyer
will have absolutely NO IDEA what in the world a "Q2" IC component is and what it's functions are to a slot machine.
He just wants to get it working accepting coins!

[TomH]

So here's what I did last night.
First I tied back the rake to see what effect that would have: It (of course) allowed coins to go to the hopper but maybe 1 out of 10 would register as accepted. 
I then proceeded to remove the Q4 chip on the optics board.  No problem removing the chip as it popped right off. I didn't bump or scratch anything else on the board.
Now I'm back to having the 21 error code that I had originally. Checked connections, wiggled wires etc but still have the 21 code.
Strangely I did self test for the coin in optics and values would change from 10-1,11-1,12-1 to 10-0,11-0,12-0 when sliding paper into the optics path so it seems as though the optics are working although the button on the optics board no longer does anything.
Not sure what to do next.  Should I order another coin in optics board?

stayouttadabunker - I appreciate your time and all the help you've given so far.  I felt like I almost had it last night and now I've got that dreadful 21 code again......
Thanks again!

[CVslots]

The problem is not the optics...I am battling the EXACT problem right now.  See my posts titled "Testing 10 MHz boards - Code 21" it's just a few topics down front his one in the S+ forum.


@Bunker - with cutting the Q2 (Q4) off of the optics, isn't there greater risk for hopper jams? Small coins in a large coin hopper? Sure, its not the ideal scenario, but we get hopper jams now from home users that don't sort their change jars and dump them in the hopper to payout a win...just a thought.

[CVslots]

Let's hope someone has a "magic fix"...

[TomH]

Ok, I got it to work.... ......at least for now.  Here's what I did.
Turned the reset key with door open and the 21 code went bye bye.  When putting coins in they came back out to the tray so I wedged open the rake on the CC and Viola! It's taking quarters, spinning, paying off etc..
I put in more than the max #(5) of coins to see what would happen and it went back to the 21 code so I repeated what I did before to remove the 21 code and it's working again although not exactly as it should.
At some point sooner than later I would like to get the machine working as it should... just not sure what to do next................

I tried putting more than max five coins in again and it did not go to the 21 code although the extra coin obviously went into the hopper.  Must have been a fluke before.
I'd still like to get the CC working properly at some point to avoid someone putting the wrong coin in.  The coil/magnet (?) on the CC are not being activated for some reason. 

[stayouttadabunker]

A "21" error code is cleared by simply by opening and then closing the door - turning the reset key does nothing for that.

The rake works by the solenoid getting juiced up and it becomes a magnet pulling back on the rake to allow the coins to slip by into and through the coin comparator.
After that, the coin-in optic boards register the coins passing thru the optics
and send 1 credit to the MPU.
By shoving something under the knife - you're basically making pretend the rake is energized and pulled back.

Vice versa,  if the rake magnet does not energized - the rake won't pull in
and the coins get diverted by the rake back into the coin tray under the door.


Soooo...you need either a new coin comparator or the circuit board that goes inside the plastic casing.
Suzo-Happs.com sells the circuit boards but they're fairly expensive...>>>

http://na.suzohapp.com/gaming/coin_comp/35003400.htm

Yours is the 24volt ...>>>  35-0034-00  9270126    CC-16D 24VAC              $46.35   

I'd place an WTB ad in the "Classifieds" section of NLG for an S+, 24volt coin comparator
and hopefully a vendor will spot your wanted-to-buy- ad and get in touch with ya!

Finally, if you want your game to take more the "Max" bet allowed and have the extra coins go to the credit display -
I suggest that you pick yourself up an SP1137 "Montana Credits" SP chip!
This chip sends all extra coin credits to the credit window on the reel display! 

@Bunker - with cutting the Q2 (Q4) off of the optics, isn't there greater risk for hopper jams? Small coins in a large coin hopper? Sure, its not the ideal scenario, but we get hopper jams now from home users that don't sort their change jars and dump them in the hopper to payout a win...just a thought.

Yes and no...at some point, the homeowner will realize that they should be using just one coin.
Also, the hoppers are not really made for dimes or pennies....they will jam too much and bend out the knife away from the faceplate of the hopper wheel.
Once a homeowner finds that out - I'm sure they'll stay with tokens or quarters.... 

Secondly, trying to drop a dime through a larger optic insert guide that's sandwiched in between the coin- in boards that are designed for a quarter, will cause a lot of ABC optic misses and really bad coin acceptance.
Yes, a few will get registered but most will miss the optic beams.
That's due to the optics missing the small coins passing through.

To prevent hopper jams, just tell the customers to periodically dump the contents of their hoppers onto the table
and sort out the smaller coins from time to time.
Tell them that it's a service charge for you to come over
and clean their hopper out of small, stuck coins causing bent knives.
Believe, once they see your bill  - they WILL stick with the right sized coins! 

[TomH]

Is it possible for a bad CC to indirectly throw a 21 error code?  I'm asking because I have an old CC off of a Bally E2270-112 that I tried and the 21 code came back. As soon as I switched back to the CC I'm using now the Code 21 went away.  I also tried a CC that I recently bought on eBay from Slot Machines Unlimited but it doesn't work any differently than the one I'm using that came with the machine.  It also diverts the coin to the tray unless I hold back the rake or remove it completely.

Thank you for your replies as well as the reading links....Very Helpful!!

Where on the MPU does the SP1137 get installed and where could I purchase one?  I'm liking the idea of getting an SP1137 chip instead of buying another CC/board.

[5 ACES]

[quote Where on the MPU does the SP1137 get installed and where could I purchase one?  I'm liking the idea of getting an SP1137 chip instead of buying another CC/board.
[/quote]


The GAME PROM, circled in red!

[stayouttadabunker]

[quote Where on the MPU does the SP1137 get installed and where could I purchase one?  I'm liking the idea of getting an SP1137 chip instead of buying another CC/board.

The GAME PROM, circled in red!
[/quote]

The SP1137 gets installed in the socket you've circled.
You can place a WTB ad in the "Classifieds" section of NLG for the chip.

Is it possible for a bad CC to indirectly throw a 21 error code?  I'm asking because I have an old CC off of a Bally E2270-112 that I tried and the 21 code came back. As soon as I switched back to the CC I'm using now the Code 21 went away.  I also tried a CC that I recently bought on eBay from Slot Machines Unlimited but it doesn't work any differently than the one I'm using that came with the machine.  It also diverts the coin to the tray unless I hold back the rake or remove it completely.

Yes, especially if it's the wrong one.
Some CC's have the inhibit line.
You SHOULD have the correct harness for the S+.
Do not use the junky 3-pin connector coin mech harnesses.
( People always install them onto the wrong 3 pins!!! )
Throw them away and get the correct one.

Also guys, when buying a CC, please make sure they have the two gray wires ( 24V) coming off the top of them.
The CC's I see on ebay are mostly 12 volt CC's with the two green wires!!!
Those are from S2000's - totally different voltages!

[Buzz]

Mark  Don't want to get in a pissing match over 1 volt. but S 2000 calls for a 13 V

[stayouttadabunker]

Mark  Don't want to get in a pissing match over 1 volt. but S 2000 calls for a 13 V

lol  you're right Buzz! 
Thanks for noticing that!

[Jim]

Just to clarify a few things that were said in this thread:   the push button on the optics board will only be able to be tested while you are doing 11_1 optic test. you can check the optic using the paper method  or by pushing the button. IF EVERYTHING IS NORMAL WITH YOUR MACHINE  and it will not accept coins, and it will work using the push button, then 99% of the time the CC-16 is bad for what ever reason.
FOR CVSLOTS; Q-4, Q-2 removal.  the only thing this does is to remove a ground that will disable optic A,  THE CC-16  WILL OPERATE AS IT WAS DESIGNED, IT WILL ONLY ACCEPT THE TYPE OF COIN THAT IS IN THE CC AS A SAMPLE.  NOW---- if the rake has been shimmed out, then all bets are off ,and the cc will accept whatever is placed into it, (within the size limitations of the sample coin) at this point it becomes a straight through path to the optics. So if the cc is operating as it should, no smaller coins will get into the hopper to cause problems.
As to the overcoin situation: its possible even when the cc is operating properly (usually real fast insertion)  BUT--- the machine will allow one coin over the max.  as soon as the spin is complete, the hopper will turn on and return the extra coin. with the cc rake shimmed any coins over the max plus one will generate a code 21.

Now as to your problem not accepting coins:  your original cc could be bad, but getting a second one and it not work??? might lead to a problem with your machine.  I would check two things that would rule out the machine: 1= inspect the cc harness, make sure all wires are connected  especially the yellow and the black, also check that the three prong connector is good as well as the connector that goes back to the machine( no wires being pushed through when the two connectors are made). 2=  if you have a belly door, remove the cc-16 assembly (bracket and coin optics) plug in the assembly outside the machine,  close the door as normal operation and see if the red/green led come on when the machine is ready to operate.

Hope this helps

Jim                 
 

[stayouttadabunker]

Good post Jim!
I like reading your posts because you can condense/clarify them a lot better then I can.
It's just that I get a lot of questions at once and there's usually a lot more involved...!! 

Trouble-shooting problems like this is always somewhat easier after a few posts when I can get the info out of the member!!!
I think that's why I came up with the line:

"Remember, the more you tell us - the better we can help you!"

[CVslots]

Jim -   I feel better now...thank you.

-Roslyn