Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

[Op-Bell]

I'm an immigrant, a citizen now, and I've even assimilated (learned to spell "color" right). I understand people are frustrated with hispanic illegals and the crime that results, so I know something needs to be done, but the political opportunists are seriously misrepresenting the facts to stir things up. I have a problem understanding why people think illegals get a free lunch off the taxpayer, because I can tell you from personal experience that there was no help available for me when I got in difficulties. If it wasn't for the kindness of friends, I wouldn't have made it. The one time I fell sick and had to get help at the ER, it landed me with a $7000 bill (for what? How could I use that much service in one short visit? I have no idea) that pursued me for years until I eventually paid it off - so much for free healthcare. There was (for a short time, until it was overturned by the courts) a Federal law that if any non-citizen accepted any Federal benefit for any reason they were to be deported at once, which seemed a bit unreasonable to a guy who was handing over a huge part of his (legal) pay in taxes.

Also, FWIW, it took me over 12 taxpaying years and thousands of dollars in fees to get my citizenship legally, and there were 101 pitfalls along the way that could have got me deported and locked out for trivial reasons like being late with some form or other, or being present on premises where a joint was smoked. The bloody INS even lost all my records at one point, so that when I showed up at the office to renew my green card I was threatened with arrest and deportation. Jeez, if I'd had the option of walking here from the next country, and deportation meant no more than that I'd have to walk here again, I may not have bothered with the legal route either. So don't be so quick to criticize the illegals unless you also have tried going through the application process with a dysfunctional, schizophrenic Federal agency whose twin missions are to give you a permit to be here, and also to keep you out.

But leaving that aside, I have to ask myself, do I need to carry my passport when I drive through Arizona? Because if I get pulled over and the cop hears my accent, even though I'm the whitest man in the state, the law says he can't discriminate, he has to verify my residency status. A SS card or a driver's license won't do, I can buy those on the east side of Vegas for $100. If he was determined to have me - I've met a few of those kind - and I didn't have someone at home to fetch my papers, I could be locked up for weeks. Probably safer for me if I don't go there.

[rickh]

You read the law? It mimics the already active federal law...... so do you carry your "papers" now?

I agree the actual system needs fixed.... but I dont think that justifies anyone coming here illegally, esp if they are killing, raping, robbing etc. That is my bigger concern. I do not like having to carry a gun most of my waking hours, as I do.

It will be interesting once the courts start fighting over this bill.... and there is lots of posturing going on now for the next election... so 2010 and 2012 will be pretty wild.

[Op-Bell]

You read the law? It mimics the already active federal law...... so do you carry your "papers" now?

I don't need to. Under Federal law I'm only required to present them to an INS officer, not a traffic cop, and then only if I'm not a citizen. Do you carry yours?

Thought not.

[rickh]

I show my id so many places it isnt funny.... doctors visits.... Blockbusters if I rent a movie.....anytime I go into the bank....everytime I am admitted into the hospital.... and more. Most States make you proved who you are before giving you a license, which I know can be faked, but your record is on all the computers. A fake one would raise a flag, whether it was me or you. So yes, I carry my papers.

We have kept this civil, hopefully you will too?

[Op-Bell]

We have kept this civil, hopefully you will too?

I didn't mean to give offense, though immigration matters are something of a hot button for me.

It's a serious question, though. A driver's license and SS card will not be acceptable proof of citizenship under the AZ law, quite rightly so. I had both when I still lived in England. I was doing business here, and I had to have them before I could open a bank account. Naturally that gave me quite a good history - shoot, I even had a credit score and owned a home in Florida, yet all I had was a visitor's visa. Actual proof of citizenship requires a piece of Government paper - a birth certificate, a passport, or an INS certificate - and on the occasions when I've needed to produce mine, only the original will do, they don't allow photocopies. I keep the originals in a safe, I'm not going to drive around with something so valuable and hard to get.

Now you live in Arizona, clearly you're in favor of the law, and you don't believe it could ever put legal English-speaking Americans, especially locals, in jeopardy. But humor me, and try to imagine this law being applied not by Sheriff Joe, but by the TSA at airport security, and they had been tipped off that someone who looked like you had been living in the US illegally for several years. Does that look a bit more like a nightmare? I'm certain you don't walk around with your birth certificate in your wallet. If they wouldn't accept your drivers license and SS card, where would you turn, who would you call, to prove you were a citizen? If there was nobody at home who could produce your official papers, what government department would you call to verify your citizenship at, say, 5pm on the evening before Thanksgiving? No, I don't know either, I would have to call an attorney.

[rickh]

People that look like me are profiled everyday.... we have gang task forces picking us out of crowds anytime we gather, assuming that we "look" like biker gang members. So, the profiling issue is moot to me.

When I fly, TSA takes my license as proof as they would you as a legal... they have no way to disprove it as yours at the security desk. As an alien in the USA, you are supposed to carry proof, federally, that you are here legally. Having never been an alien here, I am out of that look as for the details. When I went to canada for a contract, I was snagged at the airport and made to buy a work visa for $200+ dollars. I had to keep that paper on me at all times while in Canada and coming and going. It only took an hour or two to get it done.... maybe thats one direction to go for others coming here to work.

As to the hypothetical questions, I try to deal with reality of things happening first. Things are bad here, mostly caused by illegals intent on crime.

[rdaniel]

I think you're blowing these identification check scenarios all out of proportion to reality. Due to the publicity there will be plenty of caution exercised on the part of police before they detain someone without proper "papers". Besides one would have to be stopped for some sort of a violation of the law before the ID check could be insititued.

If a person has the proper ID there should be no concern. It would only be of concern to those who have no "papers" and are illegal.

[Op-Bell]

I think you're blowing these identification check scenarios all out of proportion to reality.

Am I? I hope so. But the fact is, as rickh pointed out, non-citizens are required to carry papers but citizens are not. So natural citizens have no convenient way to prove their status on demand. Right now that doesn't matter, because law enforcement doesn't have the right to ask for it - except in Arizona. I'm not so much concerned with Arizona's illegal Mexican problem as I am with them starting a wedge into a crack that some government, some day, is going to drive all the way in, to the great detriment of the civil liberties this country used to believe in.

I know what's going on in Arizona - a frustrated Republican legislature has been handed the accidental gift of an (unelected) Republican governor, and they may only have a few months to take advantage of it, so they've gone into hyperactive lawmaking mode. Well go for it guys, you're not my state. I didn't want to breed minotaurs and mermaids anyway (new animal-human hybrids law), and kudos on the concealed carry law. But be careful with things that are actually national, not just state, responsibilities, that you don't inadvertently start something we'll all regret later.

[rickh]

I see your slant now... so I will bail and enjoy our new law, and see if it works. One last question tho...

If our federal immigration law is to be ignored by millions, what other laws will they break? Where does it exactly end?

[tacman]

 

 Dan (tacman)

[Joeylc]

Immigrants Leaving Arizona in record numbers
In The Wake Of The Enactment Of The Controversial Arizonian Immigration Law

 

Arizona, The new immigration law in Arizona is creating waves in the state and outside it as well.

It has been reported that a huge number of illegal immigrants have started shifting from Arizona to others states.
They are flocking to adjacent states like California, Texas and New Mexico for seeking employment opportunities.

As per the new law staying in the state without legal provision is a state crime and national crime simultaneously.
It is yet to be implemented but the chances are there that it will face severe opposition from some Democrat leaders and a number of celebrities.

The new state law basically reiterates what the federal law has implemented for decades earlier.

What may give rise to more controversies on immigration laws is the fact a number of US states are planning to implement similar laws in near future.

If that happens, the illegal immigrants will have to opt for Mexico to avoid deportation.  

[Joeylc]

Here is why California is broke!

 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/BMzsUo2aM4U&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/BMzsUo2aM4U&rel=0</a>

[rickh]

Ya, its still the top news here in Phoenix.... big rally for the new law coming up June 5th.... at the capital. Lemme know if anyone is going, I am.

[rdaniel]

I should drive from Calif to support the state law.

[rickh]

I made a gift for the Gov.... a pic from when Palin was here a week or so ago. Mailing it to her this week. The picture is washed out, the mouse pad came out great.

[rickh]

FYI...... from one of our Senators in AZ

I'm Arizona State Senator Sylvia Allen. I want to explain SB 1070 which I voted for and was just signed by Governor Jan Brewer.
Rancher Rob Krantz was murdered by the drug cartel on his ranch a month ago. I participated in a senate hearing two weeks ago on the border violence, here is just some of the highlights from those who testified.

The people who live within 60 to 80 miles of the Arizona/Mexico Border have for years been terrorized and have pleaded for help to stop the daily invasion of humans who cross their property . One Rancher testified that 300 to 1200 people a DAY come across his ranch vandalizing his property, stealing his vehicles and property, cutting down his fences, and leaving trash. In the last two years he has found 17 dead bodies and two Koran bibles.

Another rancher testified that daily drugs are brought across his ranch in a military operation. A point man with a machine gun goes in front, 1/2 mile behind are the guards fully armed, 1/2 mile behind them are the drugs, behind the drugs 1/2 mile are more guards. These people are violent and they will kill anyone who gets in the way. This was not the only rancher we heard that day that talked about the drug trains.

One man told of two illegal's who came upon his property one shot in the back and the other in the arm by the drug runners who had forced them to carry the drugs and then shot them. Daily they listen to gun fire during the night it is not safe to leave his family alone on the ranch and they can't leave the ranch for fear of nothing being left when they come back.

The border patrol is not on the border. They have set up 60 miles away with check points that do nothing to stop the invasion. They are not allowed to use force in stopping anyone who is entering. They run around chasing them, if they get their hands on them then they can take them back across the border.

Federal prisons have over 35% illegal's and 20% of Arizona prisons are filled with illegal's. In the last few years 80% of our law enforcement that have been killed or wounded have been by an illegal.

The majority of people coming now are people we need to be worried about. The ranchers told us that they have seen a change in the people coming they are not just those who are looking for work and a better life.

The Federal Government has refused for years to do anything to help the border states . We have been over run and once they are here we have the burden of funding state services that they use. Education cost have been over a billion dollars. The healthcare cost billions of dollars. Our State is broke, $3.5 billion deficit and we have many serious decisions to make. One is that we do not have the money to care for any who are not here legally. It has to stop.
The border can be secured. We have the technology we have the ability to stop this invasion. We must know who is coming and they must come in an organized manner legally so that we can assimilate them into our population and protect the sovereignty of our country. We are a nation of laws. We have a responsibility to protect our citizens and to protect the integrity of our country and the government which we live under.

I would give amnesty today to many, but here is the problem, we dare not do this until the Border is secure. It will do no good to forgive them because thousands will come behind them and we will be over run to the point that there will no longer be the United States of America but a North American Union of open borders. I ask you what form of government will we live under? How long will it be before we will be just like Mexico , Canada or any of the other Central American or South American countries? We have already lost our language, everything must be printed in Spanish also. We have already lost our history it is no longer taught in our schools. And we have lost our borders.

The leftist media has distorted what SB 1070 will do. It is not going to set up a Nazi Germany . Are you kidding. The ACLU and the leftist courts will do everything to protect those who are here illegally, but it was an effort to try and stop illegal's from setting up businesses, and employment, and receiving state services and give the ability to local law enforcement when there is probable cause like a traffic stop to determine if they are here legally. Federal law is very clear if you are here on a visa you must have your papers on you at all times. That is the law. In Arizona all you need to show you are a legal citizen is a driver license, MVD identification card, Native American Card, or a Military ID. This is what you need to vote, get a hunting license, etc.. So nothing new has been added to this law. No one is going to be stopped walking down the street etc... The Socialist who are in power in DC are angry because we dare try and do something and that something the Socialist wants us to do is just let them come. They want the "Transformation" to continue.

Maybe it is too late to save America . Maybe we are not worthy of freedom anymore. But as an elected official I must try to do what I can to protect our Constitutional Republic . Living in America is not a right just because you can walk across the border. Being an American is a responsibility and it comes by respecting and upholding the Constitution the law of our land which says what you must do to be a citizen of this country. Freedom is not free.

[Thor777]

K+ to you RICKH for sharing that statement    

[rickh]

thank you.... call me Rick

[rickh]

If any of you are interested in deeper political chitter chatter, feel free to add yourself to a small message board I am involved with. We have a few liberals that make it interesting. Tell them Animal (me) sent you:

http://sandiegoscene.proboards.com/

[Joeylc]

Attorney General Eric Holder 

READ THE FU@KING BILL  YOU A*S HOLE !!!!!!   

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/5U4tI_qzyH0&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/5U4tI_qzyH0&rel=0</a>

[rickh]

Ya.. interesting stuff, eh? Its more humor straight from the comedy team running the govt currently.... too bad it isnt funny!

[Thor777]

Thanks for posting that Joey ! 

[CaptainHappy]

Only 10 pages, and he has not read it! But he plans on spending a good evening to read it.... Just how slow is he?

CH

[Joeylc]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/AnUOokUdwD0&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/AnUOokUdwD0&rel=0</a>&

[rickh]

Was this today? I missed it if it was.....