New Life Games Tech Forums

Hi everyone i'm new to this site and am in need of some knowledge please...I have just bought a Haywire Deluxe from an auction and was not working, just would light up.Got home with it and hit the reset and that got the reels to spin.The problem i have now is it will not take any dollars it takes them in and spits it back out. The other issue i am having is the coin falls straight through. Is the coin comparitor supposed to light up because mine does not when the door is open. The candle on top(the red light is flashing fast).  Thank you for your time , John

Is it an IGT S+ or a 2000?
What code comes up in display?
Ford

Not sure where to check that on the machine...It says it was Mfg.  11/94 if that will help..Sorry new at this stuff..I don't have any error code in the winner box.

 :211- :211- :211-

Here is a pic.

OK, You have an S-Plus machine. Open door, turn it on and then close door completely. What happens when you close the door and what numbers show in the display windows

It's an S+ machine.    Are there any codes (#'s) on the reel display ?  In regards to coins dropping to the money tray.... open the door and check the coin comparitor.  Is there a quarter in it already ?  If so; reseat it as it may have come dislodged while moving it.    In regards to the bill validator... It mat have / or not have an updated chip for the new bills.  Only try $1 bills for the time being  ... or both new and old $5's and $10's.  

Ok i did just that nothing is showing up.  Qauter falls straight through but the 5 dollar bill took and cashed it out .

The bill acceptor works; you just need to alter the setting to accumulate credits.... that's a good thing.  Again; open the door and look at the coin comparitor.  If there is a quarter in it... then remove it and put it in again.  Close the door and give it a try.    Bill

After i had put the 5 in there is 20 in the winner box and 5 in credits box flashing ..Quater still falls through after i tried replacing it. Could the coin comparitor be bad since the green light is not lite.Ok the bill part works had to hit the cash button so i would not csh out...Wow i feel dumb..Now for the coin comparitor still no go.

Disconnect the coin comparitor... check the pins to make sure none are bent... Reconnect it.. Try a different quarter in the spring-load slot that holds the quarter... There is also a sensitivity control. Turn It counter clockwise all the way.....

The pins all looked good but still no luck..Works great with paper money but not with the coins.I played it for awhile and was wondering if it is supposed to actually go haywire the reason i say that it goes crazy once in awhile sounds all scrambled . I just wanted to thank you all for your help tonight.. I will try to tinker with it some more tomorrow.. Thanks again everyone

As just mentioned in a different thread, you may try turning the sensitivity pot all the way to the - sign. Turn it back and forth a few times first. It's in the lower right corner.

The LED light on the coin comparator is supposed to be off when the door is open.
The bottom half of the candle flashing fast is telling you the "door is open".

Take a look at your coin comparator.
See the 2 gray wire on top of it?
Wiggle them a little then try closing the door fully and dropping in a coin.
I want to know what number you have in the "Coins Played"
display before and after you close the door.
Remember, the more you tell us - the more we'll tell you..! :89-

 :266- Bunker Yesterday I was cleaning one of the last S+ machines I have left ( It's sold ) and I noticed the comparator had Green wires. "What the hell" at somepoint I must have installed the wrong one by mistake. (I switch it to a 24 volt,)  but the point being I had a 13 volt CC where a 24 volt should be and it worked fine.

I have a Williams Model 40X Big Bang Pig If I remember correctly it should have a 12 volt comparator, I didn't have the right one so I installed a CC 16 D 24 it works fine. After starting this post I took some time and installed this same CC 16 D 13 V in a Williams 40X, S+, Bally 5500, S 2000, and a Game King.  What does all this prove, only that I do a lot of experimenting and the only machines I have that a CC 16 D 13 V will not work in is a CDS, but nothing will make a CDS work. CDS is just another work for I hate Buzz.  Actually CDS in my home have a perfect record 8 out of 8 don't work.

wow...I don't know how you got away with that.
24 volts applied to a 13V coin comparator usually blows them up within seconds.
You must have strong comparators! lol
I wonder if the latest 13V coin mechs have some type of voltage suppressor in them?  :129-

Anyways, the general rule of thumb is that you stick the coin mechs with the 2 grays wires into S+'s, PE+'s, Bally 5500 & 6000's...
The ones with 2 green wires are usually for s2000's and newer machines.
For those of you that are wondering...the two colored wires (gray or green ones) I'm talking about
are for the solenoid coil that controls the coin rake located behind the mech body.

Oh I forgot to try one in a PE+.  Maybe after while I will. Got to get to house cleaning for tomorow.

Mark have you actually burned up a 13 V in a 24 V machine? 

lol yeah...last year sometime...
I grabbed one next to the S+ machine I was working on - thinking it was a 24 volt CC.
Didn't even look at it as I was talking to somebody.
All I heard was "Phzzyytt"   I opened the door and actually saw smoke!
and it smelled like burned out transistors.   :182-

It lasted about 5 - 6 seconds maybe ...tops

 Must have been one of those East Coast 13 Volt CC.  West of the Mississippi they make stuff tougher.

Yes, hence the name.  Certain pays will "go haywire" and repeat the pays (as it says on your paytable glass), with the scrambled audio.  Of note, you have the wrong belly glass -- your game is a Double Jackpot Haywire game, not Haywire Deluxe.

You will not see the light on the coin comparator light up, as it is only active when the door is closed and latched.  Please post a (bigger) picture of the coin comparator inside the door so we can give you better guidance as to how to get it working.

Kevin  By PMs I have had him take the coin optic apart and clean it. The pesudo coin button works, and the rake is blocked open. It still won't reg. a credit, I'm thinking he must have a bad coin optic or optics.  Any of your thoughts wil help.

Remember, snipping off the Q2 on the coin-in optics makes them accept EVERY time!  :72-
It's a perfect mod for a home/basement machine!

My only other thought is that perhaps it has large coin stuff and that's why it's not working with a quarter (and perhaps also if it doesn't have the correct plastic piece in the optics to push the coins in front of the optics).

If he had a good coin in there and every coin in was still dropping to the tray, that doesn't point to the optics.

the coin divertor could be out too...
they should be dropping to the hopper instead.
You need a good signal from the coin comparator to do that though.
He should do the Input coin tests.

Here is a pic of the coin comparitor... I was wondering why it said Double Jackpot Haywire on the top glass and Haywire Deluxe on the bottom...I need to find me the right glass so it is correct..Thank You for pointing that out.

The rake is open so all coins are going to the hopper ( I think they always have ) but none register.  I would think even if he had a dollar coin spacer every now and then one would get counted.

I just saw your pic.  you don't have a token in the comparator and dropping quarters in do you??

Heh.

The coin that is in there is a token, not a quarter.  Since you're putting in quarters, they're getting rejected because they don't match the sample coin that is in the comparator (the token).  Replace the sample coin with a quarter and you should be in business, at least in getting coins accepted past the comparator.

Fast forward to 1:15 in if you'd like to see a video of someone replacing the sample coin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8qEKXjT3lg


Buzz- I agree, even with the dollar spacer he should get credits occasionally and/or coin-in tilts.  I'm trying to tackle one issue at a time, though...

I have tried it both ways and still nothing...I tried a quarter and a token..Shouldn't it reject it instead of letting it go to the hopper.. I have a quarter in it now and tried putting a token to see if it would reject it but it goes straight to the hopper instead of rejecting it.

Buzz mentioned that in a private message he had you disable the rake in the comparator.  Re-enable that, as it's used to reject non-matching coins to the tray (as it had been before you disabled it), then try it.  Matching coins to the one in the comparator should fall into the hopper (and give credit, but that's another issue we'll tackle after we get the comparator working), and non-matching coins should be rejected to the coin tray.

Since you're using quarters in the machine, you MUST have a quarter in the comparator.  Unless you are using those exact tokens in the machine, you need to remove that token (and thow it away if it's the only token like that that you have).

I put a quater in took the paper out off the rake and now it rejects the qauters to the tray.

I'm assuming you already turned the sensitivity all the way CCW?

Yes i have it all the way towards the plus sign.... Is that correct ?

No, the other way. You want it less sensitive.

I turned it all the way the other direction and it still rejects the quater to the tray.

Just some other thoughts on this, as I'm not there to see what you're doing.

When you close the door, make sure the door is completely closed and the latch is all the way down.  Wait a few seconds after closing the door before trying to insert the coin (in fact, the "insert bills" bezel above the bill validator opening should be lit up before you can insert a coin).  Then try a quarter.

There could be an issue with a dirty pot in the coin comparator.  Using your small screwdriver, turn the dial all the way back and forth a few times to make sure it's making a good contact, ending up dialing it away from the plus.  Dial it all the way away from the plus until it stops, and then back towards the plus just a smidge.

(http://i49.tinypic.com/10oobc7.jpg)
Using a tiny screwdriver, adjust that counter-clockwise (away from the +) to make the comparator less sensitive and more likely to accept a coin.


Make sure that the sample coin is correctly inserted.  It should rest in the grooves of the comparator, with both ends touching the contacts from the slider thing and the edge of the comparator.  Make sure that the sample coin is clean and in good condition.

Ok i did just that and it is still doing the same thing..I opened that front glass door to see if i can see the green light  and it is on.

Well, that's a good sign.

Are you waiting until the "Insert Bills" bezel light comes on before trying your coin?

Do you have a lot of credits on the machine right now, by chance?

Yes the Insert Bill light was on and the insert coin light also...There is no credits at all on it....I just want to Thank You all for your patience on trying to help me...I hope theses pics are ok

For lack of any better ideas, could you please take a nice close-up picture of the part of the comparator where the coin is so we can see if it's seated correctly?

Thanks for your patience with this -- I know it can be frustrating when the machine isn't working how it's supposed to.

now's a good time to do the coin tests.
The rake isn't opening as your quarters are falling back into the tray.
Tying back the rake doesn't solve the problem because the coin comparator is rejecting "alike" coins.

I'm now suspecting at least cold solder joints on the 2-pin header
that attaches to the two gray wires - or worse...

Wiggle that connector, close the door and try dropping in a couple of quarters after you
post a couple of close up pics of the quarter you've installed into
the "sample" coin holder of the coin comparator.

I wiggled the plug with the gray wires and the quarters still fall to the tray

You've turned counter-clockwise back the sensitivity dial right?
Now turn it a quarter of a turn clockwise...that's a "smidge"....lol
Try another coin while knagl is typing up the Coin-In Tests instructions.... :79-

Thanks for the pictures -- it sure does look like your coin is in there correctly.


Heh, the only test I know of is for the ABC optics, which are a moot point at the moment since the coin isn't even making it to the optics.

I take it that you don't have another working S+ machine at home that you could swap some parts out of, do you John?

No sorry i don't....The other machine has a X-10 in it.... Which that one i am having an issue with also where the coins are going..On my Red White & Blue machine what would cause the quarters not to go in the hopper and go into the part that has the whole in the bottom of the machine?

Topic moved to S+ board and renamed.


StatFreak :31-
:nlg-  Global Moderator

you actually have found your problem. ITS THE COIN OPTICS. the sad part about the S+ is that it only operates one way,everytime it does the same thing over and over and over. you established that the machine played and accepted bills. you also established that by pressing the test button on the optics board that the machine did register a credit. (reply #20  Buzz, pseudo coin button)  so that told you that everything from that point back to the logic board was good. then you took the coin comparator out of the problem by shimming the "rake" so it will accept all coins and present them to the optics to establish credit. so now we have our coins going through the optics and into the hopper and not registering the credit. the optics provide a signal to the cc-16 via the purple wire. that signal is produced  and toggled by  Transistor  Q-2 or Q-4 (depends what model optics you have). I'm sure that is what your problem is. The transistor shorts and puts a ground on Optic "a", thereby disables the coin from being seen by the optics. Solution, buy optics, spend money needlessly, or remove the transistor. with the transistor removed , there will be no difference in game operation, other than the fact that your game will now work with coins.
 For future reference: the cc16 does one thing in the S+. it compares metal discs. if it sees a match, it pulses the rake open for a brief time to allow the good coin to pass, if no match then the coin is rejected. Very simple. how it compares the metal discs is a little more complex, simply stated: the sample coin establishes a electronic field, if the incoming coin sets up the same field, then a null is produced and the unit will pulse the rake open and allow the coin to pass.

Jim
   

Excellent reply Jim.
I could be wrong, but I think his coins are dropping into the tray - not the hopper?
Does the coin comparator send a signal to the divertor below the optics to
direct flow or does the divertor command signal come from the coin-in optics?
I'm guessing it comes from the hopper ground?

I have a question for you ....Is the coin comparitor suppose to be warm to the touch ?

Warm is okay, hot is not.

I think you are right. After he put the rake back to normal, the coins are dropping to the tray before ever getting to the optics. So it seems to be something before the optics.

Do you think both the coin comparitor and optics board could be bad ?

You're half right poppo,
But the coins have to go through the coin-in optics first before
they get diverted to the drop or the hopper.
To get to the tray, the rake isn't opening upstairs.

jacell,
I'd try a different set of optics or cut off the Q2 chip on the con-in optics board 1st.
Here's a link on how to do it>>>

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=3882.msg38795#msg38795 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=3882.msg38795#msg38795)

If your coins are dropping to the tray, the coin comparator is bad.
The rake doesn't open to let the coin go down to the coin-in optics.
If the coins are dropping to the hopper or the drop, the coin-in optics are bad.
That's when you can cut off the Q2 to register a credit.

I will try cutting off the Q2 chip and let you know what happens..I have it apart so i want to cut the Q4 which looks like a small black box..Wow i need to find something small to cut that out with.

You can use the tip of a sharp knife to pry it off the board.

Bunker,  the optics have nothing to do with the diverter.  the diverter gets its signal from the brass hopper probe that is mounted on the bowl of the hopper. the hopper chassis is at ground potential, as the coins  accumulate in the hopper bowl they eventually will pass the ground to the probe because they are metal as well. the logic board puts a ground to the diverter bridge rectifier  to produce a dc voltage to energize the coil which in turn will mechanically move the gate to deflect all the overflow coins into the chute to be directed into the machine base.  

Jim

Ok, now I am confused. But I am just going by what I have read before. I thought first, it passes through the comparator. If it passes that test, the rake opens and it then goes to the optics to be counted. If it doesn't pass the comparator, the rake does not open and it drops to the tray.

In this case, early on, he bypassed the rake, but it still did not get counted. Now that the rake is back to normal, they are dropping to the tray again. So would that not indicate that something in the comparator circuit is not working? Not to say the optics don't also have a problem, since bypassing the rake did not help.

I guess I'm just thinking that there is something else wrong causing both not to work. I suppose at this point there is no harm in trying the optics mod, but I am skeptical that it will help. And won't he have to bypass the rake again anyway?

No    the optics are doing both things, shutting down the cc16, and not allowing the optics to see the three signals necessary to register a credit.

the cc16 will operate as it should, the mod has no visible affects on the game or any other functions.  there is a slim chance that the cc16 could be bad, however you won't know until the optics are working correctly.


Jim

Yeah it works.... :131- You guys are great .Thank You
 I have one more request.... If you would be able to help me on the other machine i have.

Here's a short clip I hope will help.

I'm suspecting that the coin-in optics will register credits once he does the Q2 mod.
The rake may still need to be propped open with paper or whatever.
I'm not sure if his coin comparator is working or not. >>>

http://www.youtube.com/v/DaEd8ZnxK0s?fs=1&hl=en_US (http://www.youtube.com/v/DaEd8ZnxK0s?fs=1&hl=en_US)

Glad to hear that!  :3-
Is your rake propped open or is it normal?
If it's normal, then it should have allowed the quarter to drop into the
hopper or coin drop all along - rather than the tray.
By the way, the coin "Drop" is the hole that goes beneath the machine into a bucket.

Anyways, once the coin passes the coin-in optics, it cannot get to the tray.

Start a new thread for your other machine under the appropriate forum heading...

I still have the rake propped open...I took the paper out and the coins fall to the tray

ah...that explains why the coin comparator was really warm!
An IC component controlling the rake solenoid on the CC board was ffrying out...!

Keep the paper in to prop the rake open or
remove the rake w/solenoid completely with two screws.

Ok i will do just that...Thank you guys so much
Now i can have some fun :3-

So there were two issues at work here -- 1, the comparator was (and still is) incorrectly rejecting coins to the tray, and 2, the optics needed the Q2 component snipped.

Problem 2 has been resolved, but problem 1 remains.  You should not have to prop the rake open with a piece of paper for a slot to work.  In addition, now ANY coin dropped in there (provided it's large enough to break the optics) will register a credit, and later jam the hopper.  If you have a $0.25 machine, you shouldn't be able to drop pennies into it to get credits, and I suspect that's exactly what can happen right now.

If after trying to adjust the comparator sensitivity again you still can't get coins past the (un-altered) comparator, you're going to want to buy a replacement.

Yes that is exactly what happens it pretty much accepts any coin now...I will be on the look out for a coin comparitor and an optics to correct the problem...At least now i can have fun at the moment playing... Thanks so much for your help.

Your not going to find a optic any better than the one you now have. If you have some money burning a hole in your pocket, you can always donate it to  :nlg-  In your quest for a comparator look for a CC 16 D 24 Volt.

I did donate this morning to NLG...It was so worth it...Thanks for all the help and knowledge from you all.

Indeed, your optics are fine (you fixed them!) -- you juse need a new comparator.

Jim This was the most interesting statement you made. I never stopped to think about how and what the comparator was reading. I think I always assumed it was reading the thickness, metal content and the diamenter of the sample coin. The diamenter doesn't have a thing to do with it, does it ??  Thanks