New Life Games Tech Forums

Thought I would start a new topic, leading on from here http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=1421.0

I refactored the DLL so now it can poll mutiple machines. I was surprised when it worked first go!

So far, I have implemended exeptions, ROM Signature and SAS Version and Serial Number polls. I will post up a pic of my demo app written in c# soon.

SAS has hundreds of meters and commands, and I am not going to implement them all. So what do you want to see included? There is a public doucment here http://www.doj.mt.gov/gaming/forms/sasimplementationguide.pdf that suggests some of the possibilities.

I haven't followed all of the discussion on the other thread, Andy, so please forgive me if I'm covering something that's already been discussed.

I know that as a home user I would love to have a working TITO system in my basement -- that is, I can hit "cash out" on one machine and it prints a ticket that I can then insert into a different machine and have the same number of credits that were cashed out added to the new machine.

I'd also be interested in being able to remotely add credits.  That is, from a computer be able to issue $10 in credits to "machine 4" in my basement.

It would also be neat to place a machine out of service or in service from a remote PC.

Thanks for your fantastic work on this -- it's great stuff!   :3-

When adding credits, there is several ways to do it over the lifetime of SAS, so it depends on what version SAS your machine supports.

Is there one that is older than another, which would still be compatible with newer machines?  A number of us have older S+ machines which supported SAS, as well as newer machines like the S2000 or Game King.

Do newer machines accept the older crediting commands?  If so, it would seem that developing a system that used the older commands would be more compatible with a wider variety of machines.

I know the machine I have is configurable, so I can set it to use Legacy Bonusing or the newer Advanced Funds Transfer stuff. There is also some functions between the Legacy and AFT called EFT.

I am going to add in legacy bonus stuff and test it.

I believe that certain Game King software sets support AFT -or- EFT (depending on the set) -- maybe an option in the software to switch between which protocol you wish to use for a transaction?

This is great stuff.  I wish I knew more programming stuff to be able to help.  At least I'll be a big cheerleader.  Please let me/us know if there's anything we can do to help your project along.   :89-

It should still support Legacy Bonusing. That is the easiet way to add credits. I'll guess we shall find out in the near future!

Ok, legacy bonus is in now and it works. I transferred credits to my machine.

I have a problem with my machine now. I think I have the wrong button panel for the software. Everytime the game is about to come online, the buton panel lights up and then it crashes with some button panel error. I cant do anymore testing till I get it fixed.

Picture shows what happens in exceptions! Notice the first exception is a legacy bonus!

Awesome!

Way cool - what is the physical interface between the PC and the Slot ?

I have an RS232 card in the gaming machine, so its straight RS232 from the PC. If you want to connect it via rs485 you will need an adaptor. It wont work for fibre (hp versalink) because the data you send out comes back into the recieve line. I can make it work with fibre, but will require a bit to much work right now.

This probably wont work with most USB adaptors. You will either need a physical rs232 port on the computer, or a 16550 compatible rs232 card in the PC.

I have a rs485 to rs232 convertor. My Slot PC is a older dell laptop with a real 9pinD running W98. I use it for programming W98

Forgot to add, will need windwows XP or greater. :(

That works out for me -- I have an old WinXP laptop I use for programming Mikohn stuff that has a serial port on it.

I have a couple of old dell Desktops that I can dedicate to this purpose (with 2gb Ram and XP). Good thing I am a pack rat.......

Getting back to the topic of the thread - what would I like to see ?

I know you said at one point you had no intention of writing an App but It would be great to get a .NET shell that uses your DLL that can read the game statistics from each slot.
And of course use the EFT function to put credits on the game.

We (the NLG community) can then start building subsequent modules until we had a more robust program.

What I would really like is to be able to insert a coupon into the bill validator - which when it cannot be validated by the DBV software then sends data via SAS to the CMS (your program) which has the option of validating and applying credits or sending back a reject.

How is the RS232 card you have,  connected to the machine's MPU?

I'll work on an installer for the demo app soon. IGT is going to fix my machine, not sure when though, so I'll do a few more tests and make it available.

BTW, whats DBV software?

The RS232 card plugs into the backplane of the IGT AVP machine. it has a 5 pin connector that IGT supplied a lead for. I have connected this directly to my PC.

I also have an fibre optic comms card, and australian specific comms card.

Can post up a photo if you wish

That would be great to see a pic of that but I'll tell you right now -
I don't know of any homeowner of slots that would have an AVP machine.
We're talking S+'s, and S2000's, an PE+'s...lol  
AVP's are primarily still in action in casinos.

Ha ha, thats why you lot are my friends! I dont have access to the older slots, and I need you all to help me get this stuff working! Nothing is free in this world. I have a commercial interest in this, you have hobby interest, it becomes a mutual relationship!

The protocol is the same for the older games, the only difference being that some of the newwer functions like AFT are not supported. But thats ok, cause you can use the older functions too. The DLL simply abstracts the low level crap away that no one needs to know about, and what IGT does not want you to know about.

Earlier you were asking about DBV software.
What that is basically is the software that's in dollar bill validators...otherwise known as bill acceptors...
The guys here in the States love to screw with our minds and abbreviate every word in sight.

You know what's the worst? In high tech, we use the same acronyms across different technologies, so  it's easy to get confused about what you're discussing. You should hear the conversations when nerds hit up happy hour...  :186- :5- :200-

DBV = Dollar Bill Validator
The oldest slosts had primarily DBV145. These were made obsolete by the first colored (US) money.
The slightly later vintage had DBV200. These were better because they had 4 way bill acceptance vs the 145 which only had 2 way and more memory for more bill variations.
These will be obsolte across all platforms with the new $100 bill that uses magnetic validation not spported by the dbv series.

In the IGT world these were also obsolte when IGT decided not to release the code for the colored $5, other platforms like Bally, Williams etc continued support.
There were also CBA (Canadian) bill acceptors and various European versions for the Franc, Marc, Lira etc.

The WBA series (World bill acceptor) came out and unified the acceptor world as you could simply change code and the device could handle different bill widths and lengths including support for the Euro.
While the head was universal the transport and cash cans were still country specific.

All of these however support coupon functions assuming the game chips do.

More SAS documentation here:
http://www.doj.mt.gov/gaming/forms/NewVGMModificationRequirements.pdf (http://www.doj.mt.gov/gaming/forms/NewVGMModificationRequirements.pdf)

I remember when slots had no bill validators in them.

If you visit the regulators office in Queensland they have the very first Aristocrat video slot. IT was a pretty basic device!

I like the older slots. Still like the sound of the money hitting the tray.  Too bad USB couldn't be used.  I know that Windows XP doesn't allow for the use of a USB to Serial adapter that is being used for anything other than for interfacing with a printer. It is in Microsoft's Windows XP code. Don't remember the exact details, but I had to due research on this for a project I was doing. I believe that in Windows Vista and in Windows  7 the was changed to allow for serial conversion that is used for applications other than printer interfacing. Maybe some kind of patch for WIndows XP could be made to resolve this problem.
What else does SAS do? Does it handle progressive jackpot info?  Adding the latest G2S capabilities would be great also. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong that the latest G2S specs allow for a completely standardized protocall that can communicate with any gaming device regardless of Manufacturer.

Windows XP can do any serial comms out of a USB to Serial adaptor, the problem is the adaptors themselves. Most dont handle handshaking and parity.

SAS can do jackpots to some degree, i am not 100% sure though as I have not read up on it in any great details. The SAS document is huge, and its not exactly something that you want to sit in bed and read at night!

G2S is a separate protocol altogether. It is essentially an XML based protocol. If you know much about web stuff, its SOAP over HTTP from memory. G2S is next on my agenda. I am actually going to write a whole bunch of libraries for the common protocols. The SAS DLL is just an extension on the library I am writing.

I'm thinking that once we have a working DLL and hookup, we could use MSAccess or MySQL as a back end database to generate and store the ticket records and any other interesting machine-specific data that we can poll.

If we code this in C#.NET and/or VB.NET, we could make it a web (browser) based front end app. :79-

Hello Andy

Would also like to volunteer for testing. Techie that been in the industry for 10 years. I have A PE+ and I games to do testing on.

The S+ and PE+ talk SAS 4 and are EFT capable.
On Igames the games with red menu buttons are EFT and those with Blue/Grey menus are AFT (SAS 6.2)
As far as I know SAS 6.2 is final release for SAS (Andy please correct me here if I am wrong even for us techs in the field any SAS info is very limited)

EFT supports single denom only - AFT supports Mult Denom and from what I have read the method used to collect meter data is much quicker on AFT machines.
What exactly is the difference between bonussing and eft/aft implementation in SAS ?

Its possible to run multiple progressive levels via SAS if the machine support it.

As far as your AVP goes does it have one or two rows of buttons ? Did you recieve a ekey with your machine?. Not a lot of experience on this platform but a customer had a similar issue a while back when they converted a AVP. Most games will look for 2 rows of buttons - 1 Line to select the number of lines covered and the other to select the credits per line. If you have only a single line button deck there is a option in the menu's where you select "Easy bet"which means you will always play on all the lines and can only select credits per line. If you have a ekey you can probably resolve this yourself.

As far as I know 6.2 is the final version. Everyone is switching to G2S now.


Bonusing is pretty simple, its just putting credits on machines in a single message. Its not transactional, once the message is received by the machine, the credits are added to the credit meter.

EFT and AFT are both transactional. AFT further enhances the security of the transaction. The documents I have, v6.00 and 6.02 dont have the EFT commands.


According to the protocol yes. I have on briefly flicked through it, but it looks pretty standard and inline with some other protocols.


Its 2 rows of keys. I do have an eKey. IGT is sending me a new button panel. Apparently the Australian button panel (BC20) is not compatible with US games. The US button panel is a GL20.

I am going to make an installer for the DLL and test app today. Only functions at this point are Rom Signature, SAS Version and EGM Serial, and Legacy Bonus. This will give everyone a chance to have a play with it, and get an idea what SAS Versions are out there. Will also help me get some idea of how your machines operate in regards to exceptions generated by certain behavior.

thanks for all your hard work to this point AndyP  :3-  :3-
This project of yours really has a bunch of us Yanks excited!  :244-   :244-

My pleasure. Remember you are all just my testers!

 
Please read the following before downloading
This is a test app, and a very early beta DLL. I make no promises about their functionality or operation. I have done no memory or resource leak testing on either at this point, so there is a possibility that using these tools could result in your system crashing. I am providing no formal support for the tools. Use at your own risk.

Other info:
The installer is an MSI. This is the standard Microsoft installer and may require you to download the latest installer tools from Microsoft. I think you will be prompted if this is required.

The test app uses the Microsoft .net framework v2.0. Once again, if this is not installed, I am fairly sure the installer will prompt you to download and install from Microsoft.

The DLL used the Microsoft C Runtime (msvcrt.dll). The DLL requires version 7.0. If you are getting strange errors it might pay to visit Microsoft and download the lastest version of the Visual C++ Redistributable Package, which will contain an up to date version of the CRT.

And the link:
http://users.tpg.com.au/adslcmdn//SASEGMTestInstall.zip (http://users.tpg.com.au/adslcmdn//SASEGMTestInstall.zip)


Also. The test app source code (c#) can be found in the program files directory where the app is installed to.

Why do I feel like a guinea pig?   :5- :72-

Lol. I have to let you all know so no one can come back to me and say your app broke my computer! I have taken care to deal with memory leaks, and I do use secure progamming models, so I doubt there will be any issues. However, like I said I have not done any formal testing. I did install the app on my pc, but I have all the libraries i need so its hard to tell if I have left out any dependencies.

Make sure you report back here if it works, as well as if you have any problems.

I'll only be able to try it on my older XP computer in the morning...thanks for letting us try this out Andy!
I give you my results in about 12 hours...

Good luck Bunker.  :279- :279- :279-

Forgot to add. The test app will only poll a single machine. The DLL can poll multiple machines. The poll rate is 1 second, but I will make this configurable in the next release, and default it to 500ms. I am off on my yacht for the weekend, but I will check in some time tomorrow and hopefully I will see some successes and questions.

Just what I want to do, my job on the weekend!  :279- :279- :208-

I really should get my head examined... :127-

Brichter
Same here -Spent most of Friday trying to get this http://www.touchtable.se/ talking to a online system. Of course all us techies are doing is loading the patches and reporting back to the engineers in if its working or not which is why I am so interested in learning more about SAS.

AndyP
Numerous K+'s for making this available to the NLG community. It installed fine on my personal laptop. On work laptop i am getting a DLL error. Unfortunately neither has a serial port. My desktop PSU has packed up hope to replace it later today and get program running on that.
On G2S have a look at this companies software - Looks like something that could be very handy for developement - http://www.radblue.com/

All
On the S+ and PE+ there is no RS232 and you will need to use the DCS port - You will need to build some sort of level shifting interface i am trying to get some more details on this.
On S2000 and Game King there is a RS232 port on the comms board as per attached. If anybody needs help with SAS setting for these platforms please post here (Or maybe we should create a new topic for the interfacing and machine settings ?) and I will assist.

Ian

Hello Andy

Ok the DLL error is due to the Microsoft C runtime as you mentioned. Once I installed this I had no no unhandled exceptions when I initialize the game. Unfortunately I am not able to establish comms with your app. (Hardware is good). I have only used RX, TX and GND. Not sure if you app needs any of the other signals ?

All

The interface harness for the I Game platform (S2000 should be identical) is as follows.

Coms board      - DB9 on computer
1         TX        3       
2         RX        2
3
4
5        Gnd       5

You will need to set your primary SAS to channel 3 in order to talk via comms board.
Regards
Ian

We have Liftoff  :3-

So this morning decided to see if laptop would work with USB to serial converter attached and we have a winner.
Refer to attached screenshot.

The converter uses the FTDI chipset so If you dont have a serial port on your PC look for a converter with this IC in.
ROM signature did not return any value and legacy Bonus seemed to multiply the value entered by 1000.

PS - This was tested on a 17" I Game with one of the older games installed (State Fair - Red Menu)  - As you can see from the result fro Andy's app this talks SAS 5.
Will repeat testing on SAS 6 theme later this week.


Thanks Again Andy

Do you have to have the machine connected


I kept getting a wierd error on mine like it is not loading something.
I forgot which pin goes to what (I know you have to cross the RX/TX lines (null modem)
What about the other 2 RTS CTS

TZTech the FTDI also works with PSP 2 and 3 for mikohn stuff just be sure to move the com port down to one that psp can match.
I know when the FTDI drivers are first installed it defaults to 3,4,5 as com port number.
In fact I run XP in Oracle(was Sun) VirtualBox virtual machine software and can do PSP 2 or 3 and EasyPro 90B programmer software on Mac OS X Snow Leopard.
 

Hello Foster

I used RX, TX and Gnd as per previous post for test cable.

The app starts up and initializes without errors with no machine connected on my persoanl laptop and is communicating with machine when connected (I must add that this has the full Visual C express suite loaded)
On my desktop I initially got the error as per attached. Loading the C runtime cleared this up but I dont seem to be getting any comms even though the app seesm to be working fine.
On work laptop I am still getting the error even after I downloaded the C Runtime.

BTW - You should have some freeplay goodies in your email,

Ian

I didnt see the goodies in my email yet.
Scanned both spam or junk folders.

That DLL error is possible because you are running a shortcut or something to that tune. The DLL name is hardcoded in the c# test app as "SASEGM.dll" with no paths, so perhaps try running the test app from the directory where the dll is stored. It should be under c:\program files\ap\SASDLLTest or whatever I called the test app.


As for no comms, not sure about this one. Do you have access to an oscilloscope to test the signal lines? The way I have implemented it in software is a bit of a hack. Normally you would have a dedicated piece if hardware in between. The hack basically changes the mode of the uart for the first byte of each message, and if it cant change the mode fast enough the machine might see it as a corrupt packet. However considering the poll to get the exceptions is only a single byte, it should receeve something.

On a S2000 with a 504B and Game 363
SAS primary and secondary limited to Channel off, 1, 2
SAS Address set to 001

App runs after installing latest run time library.
No communications from the machine. I may have to try another computer.

I might have to include some sort of debug output so I can see what is happening. Some machines have a comms analyser built into the service menus, perhaps try that if your machine supports it.

There is a bug in the test app. The functions using ROM Signature and Serial Number/Version and Legacy Bonus are hardcoded to use poll address 1.

Any c# gurus can use the code included (where the app installed) and change it. Error is in Form1.cs in the button click events. Change the hardcoded 1 to use the pollAddress member variable.

I will fix this in the next build.

PS. I had the app running for 3 days and I cant see any memory or resource leaks yet.

Folks, I am going to implement all commands in this doc now: http://www.doj.mt.gov/gaming/forms/sasimplementationguide.pdf

Should take me a few days. My time is limited now though. I have had a good run the last week as I have been in between software release (paid stuff) but this will change again soon. I will get as much in now as I can then put up another release.

I am getting some questions about DCS and some machines. I dont know much about this stuff so can someone explain to me what DCS is and what the electrical interface is. Example schematics would be great.

My experience is failry limited to Australian based gear, and we dont have huge amounts of SAS enabled machines here. What we do have is fairly restricted to linked electronic table games like Vegas Star and the like.

Hi Guys

The DCS (Data communication System - I had to look that up) is found on the S+,Pe+,S2000 and I Game machines. (Not to sure about AVP platform).
On S2000/Igame it talks to this port on channel2. On S+/PE+ this is your only comms options.

I have attached the schematics for I Game and PE+ backplanes showing the pinouts and circuitry. Most of the systems I have worked with have some kind of interface board or muodule to convert RS232 to DCS levels. I will see if I can get some more details on this.

Regards
Ian

TZ,
Do you think you might be able to get this communicator to work with
the more widely popular S+ and S2000 platforms?

The S2000 has a Comm Board with RS232 on it.

SB - The cable Pinout I poasted for the I Game will work on S2000 as the comms boards are identical.

Foster - Did you manage to get your S2000 working ? Not sure why you are not getting channel3 as an option. Do you have the PSR for your base maybe that will shed some light?

Unfortunately I dont currently have a S2000 or S+ to test on but if we get a usable interface to the PE+ (Which I do have) it will work on the S+.
I will document the settings for SAS 5 and SAS 6 and post that once done.
I can assist anybody with WMS Bluebird but agian dont have a machine to test - This one has a RS232 port so a standard crossover cable will work here.
Bally reels will work from S6000 upwards and Video from Game Makers upwards - Will have to check manuals for interface details.
Universals will work if equiped with a comms board. (I will document these as well as I have a mach)
Atronic Cashlines will also need a commsboard.

Ian

Here is the PSR for game chips I am using

I can not get communications will try it again in a few hours.

Excellent answer TZ!
Like others, I'm watching with extreme interest and
only wish I could contribute more to help...  :89-
Unfortunately, I don't know a whole lot about what you guys are talking about
when it comes to deciphering the signaling processes and
making them communicate with each other... :72-
It's pretty neat though and I'm learning quite a bunch!

Earlier, there was a question of what info we wanted to see and of course
getting our TITO tickets to validate on our home machines would be very high on my list! :89-
I would love to see the machine accounting statistics up on my
desktop LCD screen more than anything else as well...

It sounds to me that you guys are making tremendous progress towards this and
I must stand back in awe and watch it all transpire!
I will keep watching and see if I can help in any way possible!  :71-
Great work guys!  :3- :244-

Foster

Ok got the PSR - Did you do a keychip before setting SAS options?

7.1.5 Cashless
Controller Enables or disables the Cashless option and determines the Cashless
controller (SAS EFT, SAS AFT, or Bally Miser).

I suspect you machine is set to Miser - According to doc then

3.4.2.2 Miser Channel: Determines which channel is used by the Miser
communication protocol. The default is channel 3 (RS232 port on the
machine's communication board).

This would probably be why you cant select channel 3

Ian

Andy and Ian:

Thanks and K+ to both of you for your fantastic work thus far.  While I don't understand 100% of how you guys are making this work, it's really exciting to see what's going on here, and the possibilities that it can lead to for us home users.   :3- :3- :3-

Just took a look at that backplane, but it only shows how the DCS port is wired to the motherboard. Need to see the interface on the motherboard. I suspect that it might be a current loop, which was fairly typical for machines of that era. If it is, its pretty easy to make it work with rs232 with couple pc817 optocouplers.

I did get a hopper low condition displayed in the test app
but that is all (I had the hopper out enough to disconnect it from the machine. Non secure hopper

I had to assume that pins on the RS232 are numbered left to right 1 to 5.
TZ to connect to the Comm board I grabbed a Netplex cable that either went to the BV or VFD display or who knows where (it was from the old Vision harnesses that I replaced with a set from a S2000)
I am getting reliable communications after I swapped the 2 data wires at the serial port.
I wonder if the FTDI chip auto detects RX/TX lines (like some ethernet cards and many switches do)

Found the problem with legacy bonus. Small bug when I convert it to BCD.

I forgot to mention that
I am running Mac OS X 10.6.6 Snow Leopard, using Oracle VirtualBox (a Virtual Machine emulation software) running Windows XP (32 bit) and using a USB to RS232 converter.
I get reilable communications between the computer and machine.

For those that want to know
This is connections I am using
I did turn off the Bally Miser stuff.
RS232 Computer      S2000/I Game J82 (RS232) on the Comm Board.                     
2 RcD     <--------------   1 TxD
3 TxD     -------------->   2 RcD
5 GND   <------------->   5 GND

RcD = Receive Data
TxD = Transmit Data

I now it is easy to forget that TX is output and RX is into that device.
Yes you have to use channel 3 on the S2000 or else it will not work.

I even got Legacy Bonus to work only if I enter multiples of 100  any other value the machine does not get the bonus or is ignoring it. I can not tell which is occurring.

I was finally able to get a picture of he VFD and LED showing the Legacy System Bonus being won and awarded.

Another mac user. I vowed after discovering windows 7 that I would toss my macbook in the bin. Alas, the crashbook wont die. I like apple hardware, but I am beginning to hate mac os. Anyway..

The problems you are having with legacy bonus may well be because of a bug in my dll. Hoping to have a new version up tomorrow, but I still have a bit of work left to do yet, so may not be till next week yet.

Have you done any updates since the first version that is posted.

I noticed that ROM Signature takes a while to respond. I am thinking it is because the machine has to calculate it but not sure.

Lets do Something easy to start - if it is in fact true that if the bill validator trys sas if it doesn't recognize the bill inserted let's just have the code add 100 credits for anything inserted. 

Yup. The ROM Signature is the only asynchronous poll in SAS. You send of a request and wait for the machine to calculate the response. The newer the machine, and the bigger the software set the longer it will probably take. The AVP I have takes minute or 2.

The BV uses Netplex to interface to the machine.
The BV does not report every rejected bill
If the BV rejects the bill and sends an error condition to the machine then the machine will send that error via SAS to the the computer that handles SAS.
If that error occurs it could be coded to call the Legacy Bonus Function with a preset value as you suggested.

I save time and just use the Legacy Bonus in the Test App and do not have to use any cash or tokens.

The best FreePlay system for the S2000

The only thing is if I enter 100, I get 10,000 credits on the machine
Andy knows about the 100 times bug in the legacy bonus code

This is so cool.

The reason for the bill would be for the wife to shove in her ticket and get some credits - not to use real $$

That would be Ticket In Ticket Out

I am not a C# programmer by any means but with the right people on here, and a SAS DLL with the features we want implemented.
We home user might be able to do TITO, read accounting data, and maybe a few other things.

I am starting too lose interest in this... All the fun parts of the code are done and now its just boilerplate coding adding in all the message definitions... Sooo boring.... Getting there slowly though. I am about halfway though adding in all the messages from the montana spec.

Once I get this done, I will line up a couple of you who have working TITO machines and see if we cant get something working via my test app.

How are you accomplishing this "boilerplate coding" ?
Just copy and paste method?

My S2000 can do TITO easily as long as I can figure out what settings would be the easiest to set it for.

There is some stuff under communications and key chip that I will need input from TZTech and others that deal with them regularly.

I can't wait to try this dll

It should work on reel touch right - it's nothing more than an s2000

Nope, manually typing it all in! I got 4 messages left to add, then I need to add in all the mechanisms to handle the messages.

He posted the link in this thread

You will need a PC with a RS232 port and need to make a cable to interface them.

S2000 RS232 port location.
  Locate the the Communications board (easily found in the AC Distribution Box) it should have a ribbon cable plugged into it.
  J82 is the top connector in the row of black connectors a few inches to the right of the ribbon cable.
  It is a Molex SL 0.100 connector 5 pin.
     The connector type matches the Netplex connectors used for the VFD, Bill Validator, and the Spectrum II Netplex connectors (this is so you know what the connector looks like)
     
For the TestApp to work you will need the latest Net Framework and C# run time libraries (Redistributable) you can download both from Microsoft.
look for C# run time library redistributable and Net Framework from their download pages.

I posted the correct cable connections in an earlier post.

Is this the same for my 3902 and 044?

I believe it would be but not 100% sure since I do not have access to those machines.

I did notice that there is a SAS buffer in the S2000, I closed the Test Application and restarted windows XP amd the App.
I guess I will have put an old XP computer to a new use.

Finally! I got my old XP laptop going!
I'm ready to try this out on a S2000.

Any special keychips needed beside keychip #17 or #31 to get into the settings for enabling channel 3?

That is one very cool way to add credits to a machine!  :97-

Just enable Legacy Bonus in key chip menu
7.1.3.5 System Bonus

Either Set it to Legacy or enable Legacy (I cant remember it was enable/disable or a choice of bonus systems)

yeah it works but it multiples it by 100 try some different values including 100 as the value (I can only get exact multiples of 100 to work)
100 = 10,000 credits
200 = 20,000 credits
....
900 = 90,000 credits

I tried to e-mail the TestApp to you but gmail was being a total PITA with something.

Well,
I'll use the Test App I have for now...seems to work on the XP laptop just great! :89- :136-
This is one helluva DLL app! :3- :3- :244- :244- :244-

Hey it's 2am bunker

Get some sleep

Tell me, is this the wireing connection that the casinos use?

We do not need any of this  :294-  :294-  :294-

We are  :185- all over this DLL and TestApp

IF I could give Andy 100+ Karma instantly I would but I did give him a  :259- for now.

Casinos use Fiber Optic networks or at least I believe they do since the S2000 has 2 of them on the comm board.
Fiber is harder to tap into than regulaer Ethernet or WiFi.
So in theory it is more secure than ethernet. nothing is hack proof.

? ??


- we need re karma dog to show up.

Sorry typing on my iPhone
Trying not to wake the women in bed
With me



(wife and dog)

You know with this DLL working

You can use your iPhone to  vnc into
The computer hooked to the slot and
Wirelessly add credits.

This is ridiculously fun! lol
I gotta get to bed though!  :294- :294- :294-

The bug with the Legacy Bonus is me getting the network byte order around the wrong way. I have fixed it the problem. I went to the pub (bar) this afternoon so have lost half a day worth of work!

Gosharooty!!!!

I'm missing out on some good stuff here!  :89- :3- :89- :3-

Unfortunately, I have no time to play with my slots.  :37- :8- :37-

Next week I ship out to Penang, Malaysia, for a month.  :104-

Hopefully I'll have some time to play with this when I get back home.

Edski

And hopefully they'll have it figured out by then  :5-

You all were W A Y over my head with the first post so I'm staying out of it  :25-

 :212- :286-   Can't wait until you guys figure it out!   :244- :3-

Ron (r273)

Andy...Those lap :141-  dances are expensive!   :72-   :200-




ADD>>> I get the feeling I'm going to get the calls soon for modified serial PC harnesses....lol

I am just waiting for the PE+ interface to show up.

I hope this helps anyone that wants to make a S2000-To-PC harness.
The photos are hi-resolution. Click to enlarge if needed! >>>

Good stuff bunker,I will be making one
This is an exciting thread for sure.


Tim

Those harnesses look exactly like the one in my AVP.

I wonder if it's the same for 3902 and 044
Platforms.

Bunker where did you get the little plug for
The harness ?

The S2000 side is Molex SL 0.100 5 pin (or the same style as the BV, most VFD, and Spectrum Netplex connectors - not signals though)
The RS232 DB9 looks like he got it from his local RadioShack, since that is where I got mine.

Yes it should be the same for the 3902 and 044 platforms.  Just an FYI the S2000 and the GameKing/iGame 3902 board use the same backplane.
The 044 is similar. I believe it adds a few things.  I know it has different interface connectors for the insertion of the 044 gameboard and it adds a USB port.
The rest of the connections should be the same. 

Also in the S2000 and GameKing the com board is used for EZ-Pay via Fiber optics.
Thanks,
Eric

I forgot to ask. Will we be able to use this App with Fiber optics via the comm board or does this require extra coding.
Thanks,
Eric

No, wont work with Fibre optic at this point, but I will make some modifications later so it will.

mouser.com
I bought the receptor pins as well.>>>

Housings:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=50-57-9405virtualkey53810000virtualkey538-50-57-9405 (http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=50-57-9405virtualkey53810000virtualkey538-50-57-9405)

Receptor Pins:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=16-02-0102virtualkey53810000virtualkey538-16-02-0102 (http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=16-02-0102virtualkey53810000virtualkey538-16-02-0102)

Since I have worked with fiber optic very little and it is my understanding that fiber works basically like token ring.

The problem with Fibre loops, is that data you send out on the transmit line comes back in the receive line. At the moment, all I expect to see on the receive line is the response from the EGM. Its pretty easy to deal with, I know home many bytes i sent on the loop, so I discard that number of bytes on the receive line.

Fiber optics is NOT necessary for home use...  :97-
Plus + you have to have a completely different interface board
to handle the fiber optics into your laptop or desktop.

I, for one, have never been able to stick a fiber optic cable into my laptop....lol

I did figure that I would need a fiber optic network adapter and the cables with proper ends on them.
The S2000 has fiber interface already
I was planning for when I replace the S+ with another S2000 or the like.

Thanks Andy. Adding Fiber later would be awsome.  I'm sure that there are some inexpensive Fiber interfaces out there.
I believe that the S2000's and GameKings/iGames are daisy chaned together. I know fiber is possible with the S+ an PE+ because I had some
fiber interfaces for them. I'm not having much luck finding the box their in though.  I'm sure that an interface could easily be designed though.
If their was interest we could even do a group buy on them as I can most likely buy most of the parts cheap and get the pcb's done very cost effectively if their 2 layers or less.
I have the part numbers for the fiber cable, the ends and the recepticles that they use.
Anyway, just a thought. I'm very excited about this project.   :244-
Eric

For those that are testing this if you get an error that it cant find or load SAS.....DLL

You must install the MS Visual C++ run time library and at least the .Net 2 client both available as a redistributable exe from MS downloads site.

they are both redistributable, can be d/l from MS directly but I figured this will make it easy for you.

The Net framework installer is the Setup.exe in SASEGMTestInstall.zip

When you go to the "Add and Remove Programs " in XP, does it look like this one?
I do believe I have it already?
I attached a couple of screen shots below>>>
Anyways, I downloaded the 2nd attachment (vcredist x86.exe) and and ran it.
The program basically just asked me if it wanted to "repair or remove" - so I clicked "repair" and it did.

Do I need to hit the "Initialize" radio tab button on the bottom left first when I run the Test App?

Close, but you need the .net framework 2. I chose version 2 because most people will already have it installed. I thought the installer asked you to install the correct framework if not already installed, but I could be wrong.

The initialise button opens the comm port and starts polling the gaming machine. It wont do anything if you dont hit initalise.

I asked if I wanted to repair .net framework 4.
I tried the "Initialize" button but I get the dreaded red X and messages saying it can't find the frigging .DLL

You see it in the short video clip...

really starting to hate this message...lol

"The Specified module cannot be found....blah blah blah..."  :128- :277- :7- >>>

Righteo, there is another bug. It should ask you to install dot net 2 framework. Just noticed the warning when I built the installer 2 minutes ago. I shall fix that.

However, i dont think the app will run at all with out dot net 2 framework, so its unlikely that is the problem.

Net is part of his test app in the zip file

Is this not it?>>>
I think I have all of them...lol

I do not see the C++ runtime library in your list

They start out "Microsoft Visual C++ .... redistributable

I tried installing the new link you posted Foster...I think I'm screwed...lol
It won't continue the install because of it's "incompatibility" with the older versions I think...arghhh!
I'll check for the C++ runtime program and post back >>>

Is this the one?

Let me re-boot the computer and see if it's maybe the serial port not opened?>>>

You could try uninstalling any ones that say 2.0 and run the .net setup again.

I have the following installed for MS .NET Framework. All Start out "Microsoft .NET Framework
1.1
2.0 Service Pack 2
3.0 Service Pack 2
3.5 SP1       (means Service Pack 1)
4.0 client profile

I have 2010 C++ redist installed as well. I do not think that would matter though.

hey hey hey!
I rebooted the computer and lookie what popped up!  :199- :267-
A new button..."uninitialize"!!!!!!!
Houston...I think we have communications???
Click on photo to enlarge if you're old...lol >>>

Foster,

Networking can be best described by the OSI 7 layer model.

Application
Presentation
Session
Transport
Network
Datalink (MAC)
Physical

When we talk about fiber, Copper, UTP CAT5, Wireless we are simply discussing the physical layer.
IF I was to ask what is faster ? Copper Fiber or Wireless ---- at this layer there is absolutely no difference. All are capable of carrying bits from point A-B.

The datalink layer also known as the MAC (Media Access Control) layer describes how the physcial interfaces with the machine.
This is where 10BaseT or 100BaseT, 1000BaseT (gig), FDDI, TokenRing, etc is defined. 100BaseT is still 100mbits/second regardless of Fiber, Copper or Wireless.
RS232 or RS485 etc are all defined here. Wireless can be 802.11b (11mb) 802.11g (54mb) or 802.11n (faster - spec is not fully defined).

In a simple networks if I want to run a cable between buildings I could use a device called a FOT (Fiber Optic Transceiver). This would convert my 100BaseT (Copper Cat 5) to Fiber which then allows me to run up to 10miles and then a FOT at the other end converts it back to regular copper that I could plug into another network switch. In industrial plant control systems FOTs come in a variety of forms. You can convert Rs232 etc to Fiber and back again. The best thing about fiber is that it doesn't conduct electricity and any issues you may run into with grounding goes away.
Most of these implementations are Point to Point and not a ring.

Many industrial devices imbed fiber connectors into them directly as having a FOT is just another point of failure. It also one ups the security as the disconnection of a fiber point can be immediately flagged as a physical interruption. Where as if your were using a FOT you would be able to detect packet loss (loss of communication) but you wouldn't know if this was due to a busy network as packet loss or if someone disconnected a segment of fiber.

Coming back to your point of Token Ring. Although it is a ring, the physical implementation was almost always point to point using a Token Ring Hub called a MAU. This way if you unplugged a PC or other device the whole network did not go down. FDDI which is a Fiber implementation of Token Ring typically used a fiber concentrator for the same reason. These again are packet based networks.

Rs232 is also a point to point connection. RS485 however is a multidrop system. The idea is that you can use one set of wires paralleled to many devices.
The network layer of the OSI model defines how machines are addressed. TCP/IP the protocol of the internet is but one of thousands of different protocols.
The reason I bring this up is that in a RS485 network each machine would have a unique address allowing the multi-drop scenerio to work sharing one set of control wires.

The fiber implementation of RS485 this is also a ring in that the TX of one device goes into the RX of the next device. Unlike the copper implementation if one machine was to lose power the whole ring would go down because you depend on the powerered interface to keep the ring lit. With multi-drop copper its paralleled drops and not dependent on the next device to be live.

I will be very intersested to understand the direct fiber interface on the S2000 and other such devices.

Holy Crap Jay! Where the hell you'd learn all this stuff?  :200-

Hey anybody got an XP so I could do an "remote assistance" so you can control my mouse
and see what the heck is going on with my computer?
This ones totally dedicated to this so there's really nothing on it...lol >>>

Same place I did, I just forgot some of it.
I figured they would use a fiber concentrator.
The places I deal with do not use fiber at all.

What is it doing now?

nothing...I'm still getting the red x's with the same old messages saying it can't find the .DLL's...

What is that screen ^^^ that I see you posted it running the app about then

I can try but I may have to turn on an actual XP computer to do the remote control
I will try it in VirtualBox XP first though

I thought I got a new button called "Uninitialized" but my screen size was actually blocking the bottom button .
I only saw it when I re-sized my LCD screen from 800x600 to 1024X still-too-small-to-see.... :96-

okay I'll send you an invite...uh PM me an email address?
I haven't done the "remote assistance" in a long time...you have my number?

Just thinking about the number of machines at the larger casinos. To distribute fiber from a hub in P2P form- That would be a boat load of fiber.
The one thing I can say for sure is that fiber devices are more expensive than copper.

Here is what I am trying to get my head around:  :103-
Considering on Monday you had a bank of 8 machines and then someone moves another 10 machines over, back hauling more fiber through existing infrastructure seems like a lot of work.
Casinos don't like to have workers on the floor running wires and such. So unless they did a good job in planning for any eventual reconfiguration I can't see that they would do it this way.
I have seen workers running all sorts of wires at the machine level but never a ladder in the middle of a blackjack pit while someone strings another home run back to the central distribution.  :72-

I could see them running fiber distribution to each bank and then star-ing out from there. Or doing a mini-ring back to a single home run. A casino wide ring would not be in their best interest as a single failure would put their whole system into disarray.

What we "know" is that the machines use a RS232 interface which is a point to point technology. What we want to know is what is the Fiber interface ? and or are their other interfaces ?

The other possibility that exists is that they use the player tracking interface over a packet based network to get to the slots.
I support many remote locations that have firewalls and other devices on them, sometimes the devices fail due to a crappy ADSL internet connection or other interruption. Using modems or another network I can get to the site but if the hardware is hung I really need to get to the console interface. One way to achive this is to connect a Rs232 console cable to my server. Once I gain access to the server I can use Hyperterm, puddy or whatever to get to the device via serial.

So if the player tracking is packet based ethernet. it is not a stretch that this device sends/receives commands via a in-slot serial connection. Packet based networks (ie ethernet) are cheap and easy to implement. This would certanly be one way to interconnect many dis-similar platforms and tie it all into a single Casino Management System (CMS).
 

I thought I caught a post on here that they used fiber between the machines and then maybe TP back to the servers or something like that. It was a while ago

I do not know how accurate the set of Las Vegas (when they show backroom stuff)
a couple times they showed the network room, it looked like any other network room/closet I have seen.

Here is a screen shot of the TestApp

I went to G2E a couple of years ago.
They had some back office tours available for about $200 ish
Since I am not really involved with the gaming industry I didn't want to push the envelope and sign up (in case there background checks to ensure you were associated with a casino)
and then when I was there and I had the time the space was not available. Kind of sorry I missed out. I am considering going this year again.

I would highly recommend G2E to anyone

Jay.  The machines are controlle in banks of 32 machines.  For every addition of 32 machines you need an XVU (Cross Validation Unit).  As I understand it, the XVU syncs multiple databases for the different banks of machines so that they can commnicate with each other and the EZ-pay server.  Then there are cashiere terminals and CVT units. Each CVT handles 32 machines, has fiber optics on it that connect to the comm board on the 1st machine in the bank. Another fiber optic cable cable links comm to comm and the process is repeated untill the 32nd machine (Notice the blue and grey fiber optics ports on the comm boards).   Anyway, I don't know if any type of termination on the last machine is neccessary as I have only used fiber optics in a pro-audio recording studio environment and otherwise no nothing else about it. There are routers in the systems with multiple SSL certificates. I know what SSL encryption is, but I do not know how it is implimented. I am assuming that the routers link the diifferent banks of 32 machines together.   So, you have one Ez-pay server, multiple data bases, multiple XVU units, multiple CVT untis which are the cashiers terminals, multiple SSL certificates to encrypt evrything.  Obviously I am missing some of the EZ pay puzzle here, like how the fiber optics and ethernet are implimented between the server room and between banks of machinesa and I am probably missing some other stuff too, but I think most can get an idea from this description of how the process works.
E~

WOOF WOOF!!! :61- :259- 00 :61- :95-

Fortunately, I can give +100 Karma, and as a reward to Andy, I did just that! :259- :259- :259- :259- It is from everyone!!!! :293- :284- :285- :291- :291-

Thanks to Andy for all of his hard work already and into the future!!! :244- :131- :244- :3- :3- :3- I have too much personal stuff going on to try to test, :8- :8- :8- but I look forward to seeing what happens!!! :89- :71- :89-

CaptainHappy :95-
:admin-

Lol J, only 2 layers in the SAS model! Physical and application!

The Fibre is pretty straight forward and not very high tech. As far as I know its an IGT hangover. Its a cheap plastic fibre from Agilent (formerly HP) called versalink. You loop it from machine to machine. So it basically goes out of PC (or host controller) into machine 1, out of machine 1 into machine 2, out of machine 2 back into PC (or host controller). This is where the whole loop concept comes from. It runs at the same baud rate as rs232.

For SAS, the upper limit is about 32 machines on a loop.


We use this fibre in some states in Australia. All QCOM machines (queensland australia protocol) use fibre, and each machine has a fibre optic to rs232 converter, so all machines have an rs232 interface, with and rs232 to Fibre converter.

I have designed several FO converters, and I still have all the schematics, they are pretty simple.

I did not want this lost on the previous page as I really feel Andy deserves the Kudos!!! :244- :244- :244-

CaptainHappy :95-
:admin-

Thanks CaptainHappy, only just realised what karma is!! Unfortunatly next week I am going to start work on a G2S library, so this project will go to the wayside. I will complete the montanna spec and upload it early next week, but the resident c# guru's will have to take over soon. I am actually pretty happy with what I have acheived in the last 2 weeks. I will continue to work on the dll, but paid work unfortunatly has to take priority.

BTW, here is the Queensland OLGR spec for the Fibre interface. Its got a good pic on page 15 that describes what I was trying to say

http://www.olgr.qld.gov.au/resources/gamDocs/mon_sys/EGMLANRequirementsV2_1.pdf (http://www.olgr.qld.gov.au/resources/gamDocs/mon_sys/EGMLANRequirementsV2_1.pdf)

Here's a link for anyone that wants a better understanding of C# programming language ??? >>>

http://www.csharphelp.com/2006/12/c-tutorial-for-beginners/ (http://www.csharphelp.com/2006/12/c-tutorial-for-beginners/)

And from Wikileaks    uh... Wikipedia...lol >>>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Sharp_%28programming_language%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Sharp_%28programming_language%29)

It would be good if we could a partial copy of a bit of your programming notes Andy,
so we can compare it these help tutorials for those that want to do a crash course on C# language?

It was interesting to me how you implemented and
utilized the SAS sheet into the Test App .DLL as a template of sorts.

ADD>> I'm still having problems trying to get to this screen shot that Foster was able to get to.
I'm wondering if it's some sort of a port issue my laptop is having?
The Test App still won't populate even after hitting the "continue" button... >>>

The installer asks for framework 4...so the number# 2 .net framework version doesn't get used because of this?
What would happen to my laptop if I delete and remove all the Net Framework versions from my computer installed after .Net #2?
You'd think .Net Framework 4 would be "backwards" compatible with this .DLL App?

We need to get the S+/PE+ interface working ....... 

I think I have some...These were in S+'s.
Will probably work on the PE+ as well...
Left side boards are: ASSY NO 7542200   1992
revised in 1993 and changed revision number to: 75422001
Probably good for SIS communications really...

Right boards are: ME2944V02199 Spintek's hopper board. (disregard?)

Searching for schematics as we speak... >>>


ADD>> These are hard-wire boards only.
            Fiber optic board next post below...

This unit I picked up a while back might be for fiber optic FO PC-SAS communications.
Anybody know how to hook it up?
I have a whole bag of connectors and wiring that came with it including brand new fiber optic lines. >>>

Great pics Bunker!  I have some of the cards in the left of your picture, but have never seen the ones in the right side of your pics.
The box in your other pic, I believe, is used to convert from and to different protocoalls for player tracking, such as IGT, Bally (Bally Miser?), etc.
Maybe it can be used for other aplications. Don't know.
E~

It's actually in a schematics sheet but I can't find it at the moment.
the only schematics I've found are for the Fiber Optics  :277- :7-....  :99-I want the hard line board version drawings
so I can hook up the left boards utilizing the Test App .DLL.
the boards up top on the right go right behind the hopper....
They have sensors which tell you if the hopper is pulled out I think...
They were made by Spintek.

I'm much more concerned with trying to use the board below than using Fiber Optics...>>>

This board below is the one IGT came out with in 1993.
uses fiber optics only....bah
Anyways, they are small like the ones I posted earlier and use the same black cover.

The board for hard-wire is the ones you & I have and will
probably communicate/work with the Test App .DLL.
They were made in 1992 but I can't locate drawings at the moment... :279-
the drawing of the FO board below at least shows me the TX and RX...
If I had a wiring drawing I could probably make up a workable harness...
If you closely scrutinized the ASSY NO 7542200 hard-wire board....
do you think you could come up with a pin out?
Click on the photo to make it really friggin' big so you can actually see it!!! lol >>>

Well its got a Rs232 IC so it translates something to RS232 levels  - We just need to know what. If anybody has schematics for this please post

Edit
Ok so I went through a parts price list I had from my IGT days and it is exactly what we need.
75422000   BD,PC,INTF,DCS/RS232,ISLTD ASY
75422001   BD,PC,INTF,DCS/RS232,NON-ISO

Still need schematics to figure out the pinouts on the connectors.

Ok it looks like Andy will come through with our dll today and then stop work on it.  What is missing that we would still need to implement.

I'm on The Explorer of the Seas about to set sale for a 9 night cruise an can look at some of this stuff. It's food to get away for awhile.

Or you can get a fiber transceiver that converts fiber into RS-232 signals on serial. We used them all the time at my job.

I don't have the schematics to the earlier board, but if someone finds them. Please post.
I used to have a few of those cables, but try finding them in about 400 to 500 pounds of tangled up wiring.
Who knew that they would ever be needed as they were used for player tracking.  Ugh!
Interestingly enough I found some Bally ones that were in my S6000s. They have fiber.

The application definatly needs framework version 2. All versions can be installed and will work together side by side (thats the advantage of the .net framework), the application only uses the version it needs.

As for the installer asking for version 4, thats just a mistake on my part. It should be checking for version 2. I will fix that when I do a build next week.


Its Saturday here, so 2 days off work! I will finish up what I have done next week and build a new installer. Probably Monday, maybe Wednesday. I have to do some software upgrades in a few casino's this week, so that might screw me around a bit.

The DLL should have most of what you need by then, and if we find another message needs to be added I will put it in. The bulk of the work is now done, and adding more functionality is pretty simple and wont take a lot of effort.


All c# code I wrote is included in the installer. If you look at c:\program files\AP\SASEGMTest

There is one file, that has a wrapper for the dll. IT is called something like SASDllWrapper.cs (not in front of my dev pc at the moment) You will see all the DLL functions in that. Plus the delegates for the callbacks.

The way the DLL works is pretty straight forward. If the dll recieves a message, it calls a function in your c# app (callback). You have to tell the DLL what function it has to call by using the RegisterXxxxxCallback functions.

It all looks really complicated, but its not that hard once you get your head into it. Happy to assist if needed.

HEre is where you get a free copy of visual studio for c# http://www.microsoft.com/express/Downloads/#2010-Visual-CS

Pardon my ignorance, but with what has been created so far, can multiple machines be addressed if they're all networked together, or does this current setup require being physically attached (via communication wires) to the machine it wants to talk to?  In other words, could I tell the software to add 10 credits to machine A and then tell it to add 50 credits to machine B?

Thank you again, Andy, for your continued work on this.  It's a great project that a lot of us are interested in.

I am going to key chip mine and see what I get when I try to insert tickets (I know it wont accept them) right now it just says bill rejected when insert a ticket.

VFD reads "Voucher in Progress"
App prints "67 Ticket has been inserted"

I know the app can not validate the ticket yet.
And I am not sure sure if it should be set to SAS EFT or SAS AFT anyways.

The DLL supports multiple machines, the test app doesn't. I might add the ability to poll 2 machines in the next version of the test app. I cant test it though, because I only have one SAS machine.

I have nearly implemented all the Montana spec. Half a day should have it dusted off.


Thanks for that bit of info. I will look up exception 67 on Monday when I get back to the office and see what is says. Might be as easy as sending back a few simple messages to make it work.

By Monday, you'll have ALL THE BUGS from your "Testers".... :208-

Surely you can write a fix while lazying around on your yacht all weekend while I'm shoveling snow!??  :72-

Here are some more pics of fiber converters that I have. they are still not the ones I was looking for, but they have the same function.
E~

Here is another IGT model.
E~

Bally S6000 fiber converter. Front and side views.
E~

From my understanding how the tickets are printed
The machine creates a number and prints the value,  ticket number with a barcode it then prints the ticket and sends the information to ticket validation server
This may vary if every ticket payout ticket is validated with the server before it is printed

When a ticket is inserted the number is read by the BV and transmitted to the machine,
which then sends it to the ticket validation server,
The Validation looks up the ticket data in a database which at the minimum has the ticket value, a date and time stamp, machine or asset information which might even contain the exact location of the machine on the casino floor.
If the ticket is valid the server transmits value, maybe a validation code or other data to let the machine know it is a good ticket.

I don't know how they implimented it, but if I were to do it, I'd have the machine request a ticket ID and transmit all of its information, including the dollar amount to be cashed out, machine ID, etc.. The database would create a new record, store all of the data, and send the unique record ID back to the machine (though the server, of course) to be used as the ticket number (and bar code), and probably the date/time stamp info as well. The machine wouldn't print the ticket or clear the credits until it received confirmation from the server that the data record had been stored. There would be a fail timeout interval if the server did not respond, blah blah...

You wouldn't want the machines creating ticket numbers since you would want to ensure that they were unique.

When a ticket were inserted into a machine, all it would need to do would be to transmit the ticket number (bar code value) to the server, which would look up the record in the database. If the record were valid, the database would return the value to be added to the machine and void the record in the ticket table so that the ticket could not be used again. Casinos most likely record the redeeming device's ID info so that the tickets can be traced to the specific cash boxes when they count the cash and for accounting purposes. Failure code for invalid ticket number, voided ticket, etc. etc...

Put another way, the ticket wouldn't have any information on it (in the barcode) besides the record ID. The text indicating value, date, issuing machine ID, etc. would be an affectation for human use only. The value of the ticket, the date time stamp, and all other information would be stored in the database and sent to the redeeming machine upon request.

So far my machine has not created duplicate ticket number yet.
They are not sequential.
It looks like they are using a RNG to generate them
It could be hash of value, date/time, asset number, etc as well.
 
The first 10 digits are all 0 then the next 8 are machine generated ticket number for number with 18 digits
I do know that SG363 says if you have mixed validation, IGT SAS and Bally Miser tickets that start with 0 are SAS validated and those start with 1 are Bally Miser validated.

I'm not talking about one machine, Foster. Would you implement a casino with 10,000 machines or more and take a chance that no duplicate records would ever be created? Even though the odds may be very much against it, best practice would be to have a single source create unique ticket numbers and assign them. In addition, it would be problematic if the machines printed the tickets and cleared the credits without getting verification from the server that the record was properly created, so it wouldn't increase printing speed efficiency much either, because the machine would still have to wait for a response from the server.

I'm not saying that this is how it's done -- because I don't know, but it's the way I would do it.

P.S. Bunker, what are you doing up at this hour? :200-

Does not matter if the machine makes duplicate transactions, because the uniqueness comes from several things, time, machine serial and ticket number. In the database those fields would become a clustered primary key.

In my experience the more simple the method, the less prone it is to failure. Myself and my business partner designed a cashless system a few years back, and we went the simple route. Assume success and log everything so it can be tracked if there is a problem. This was based on our experience of designing more complex design we used for player tracking system

Hello Andy

Is this system still available. Is there a website where I can check it out. Looking for a basic cashless system for the street market and small casino clients in Africa.

Ian

We did it for a client, so we dont actually own it. IT was integrated into their system. If you are interested though, I am always happy to talk! We have had some loose discussions late last year about doing a new system for the european market.

This second one in youl ist there is the one we use in Queensland Aus, New Zealand and Northern Territory Aus. The one numbered 75421603 is it. Its just an RS232 to FO converter.

One question,
If you use SAS to pull the info for the back-end system, did you have to have approval from IGT to market the system?
This is where we are stuck with a system now. We hate to ask for permission for fear of receiving a  Cease and Desist order from the big boys. Also looking into this thru the GSA

If you want please PM me how one might obtain approval of using a backend system thru SAS

That makes sense.



With regards to assuming success, are you saying that the machines do not wait for an acknowledgement from the server before dumping the credits? That would seem to me to be irresponsible, and would also seem to go against the gaming manufacturers' history of taking extra backup and security measures whenever cash is involved. I have no gaming programming experience, but I do have both banking and online transaction programming experience.

Of course, we could dispense with most security measures for home use. :71-

I agree, I still like Munch's suggestion of just setting up the Test App
to allow the machine to "see" a ticket  at least -
(Foster has already tested that far) and to shoot off say...a 100 credits to the machine for now.
Work out the bar code, time, machine serial and ticket number bugs later.
Simplicity is best for home use, the tweaking of the Test App
to bring it up casino-level security measures - could be added later on?

There's a lot of things to learn when taking up the game of golf for instance.
One day, after I sliced several balls into the woods - and old man yelled "KISS!"
I turned around and looked at him and asked him what he was talking about?
He said: "Keep It Simple, Stupid!"    :96-

I became a much better golfer and to this day still apply KISS to my golf swing mechanics.  :89-

Ok that will work but requires a ticket printer. It would be even easier to detect a status change on the change button (The app has these events already coded) and then do a promo credit download       

Change_lamp_on = 0x71,
Change_lamp_off = 0x72,

dont have acess to machines over weekends so maybe someone can confirm that these events are sent through when the change button is pressed.

IGT has nothing to do with it. The only thing you need from IGT is the protocol, and this requires you to sign a non-disclosure agreement.  Any other approvals are usually only from government regulators.


SAS might be a little different, i have not looked at that part in any great detail just yet. The AFT stuff looked a little more transactional.

A lot of protocols however are a simple as that. The machine logs the details of the ticket, then the machine sends off an event to the host monitoring system. All the systems I have ever worked on use reliable messaging, which means the event is never lost. In the off chance of a power failure or something that does end up in a lost transaction, you can always look in the audit menu in the machine. In circumstances like this it does not matter how complex your transactional model is, you can still loose data. The onlyy problem with a complicated system is the transcation tends to become a nighmare to complete in the event of a such failure.

Hi Andy.  Thanks for the info on the converters. How is the converter PN: 75421603  implimented. They are only used with the GameKing/iGame or Multistar I think yours are called and the S2000s right?  I know the AVPs have an rs232 daughter card, a fiber optic daughter card, a progressive daughter card and an optional rs485 card. I may be forgetting about one.

Anybody have schematics for this board, PN: 75421603?
Also, where does the power connect? I see the Molex Mini Fit Sr  white 1x2 connector on the card which is for power, but where does the other end connect to? What kind of connector is on the other end of this power cable?

Thanks,
Eric

This whole concept was discussed a long time ago by me and at time we really had no solution but here is the thread: http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=4255.msg35924#msg35924

Hi Eric

Those are from the S+/PE+ era. S2000/Igame platform have fibre interfaces on the comms board.

Ian

Part 2

I actually lied to you. The ones currently in use have an rj11 rather than the 5 pin connector. IGT has an older protocol called DUCMS, and those machines used that particular converter with 5 pin connector.

The FO converters we use a compulsory in QCOM machines. In the AVP machine I have, it has a special interface card that has 5 10pin connectors for X-Series protocol, and one rj-11 for QCOM Protocol. Most machines have some sort of backplane with and rs232 port on, and they supply cable that connects to the FO converter.

I do have the schematics somewhere, will see if I can find them. Will also post us some schematics of mine.


I had a quick look at that thread, DBA I assume is a bill validator. No idea what a 'scrip' is. Most bill validators these days will read a barcode, thats all you need. If your not using currency, you would be mad to use something that cant be validated against a host controller. Currency is fairly complicated these days, and has a lot of built in security. Play money doesn't.

Hi Ian. Hi Andy.  Thank you both for the schematics & info.  Andy, that would be great if you could post those schematics when you get a chance.
I was confused on those fiber converters because I couldn't figure out why they would be used with the i960 platform when there is fiber on the comms board.
I thought for a minute I might have been missing something.  The question now is which is the best fiber card to use with the S+/PE+ platform. Maybe the one you designed Andy?
WIll any of those allow a ticket printer to work with the S+/PE+ platform or would you stilll need to convert DCS to rs232?   If not what would be needed?
I would love to see a pic of the AVP card that that has the 5 10pin connectors for X-Series protocol, and the one rj-11 connector.
I am building an AVP, but am stuck finding an affordable place to have a few metal parts made to replace some missing ones.
Is this card standard in the AVP or is custom made for the the  X-Series protocol and the QCOM Protocol that you use.
Thanks,
Eric

PS: For those who want it, here is an EZ-Pay ticket template and a place that prints the tickets for you.

I will dig out the schematics this week.

The AVP backplane has from memory 5 connectors for comms. I have 3 different cards that plug into it, a QCOM and x-Series card that I doubt you will see outside Australia and New Zealand, a rs232 card and a fibre optic card. I think my phone camera is buggered, but I will try work something out and get some pics for you. Might be a good excuse to replace my phone!

I cant tell you anything about s+ or pe+ or DCS because I am not familiar with them. IF I can get some schematics for DCS port on a motherboard I should be able to figure it out. Either that or if someone has a DCS converter that I can reverse engineer..

Hello All

Just a quick recap

For I960 Platform  (S2000,Vision,Reeltouch and I Game 039 and 044)
The wiring harness as illustrated by SB and as Indicated by Foster and Myself will work
17" I Game - Tested OK (Me) 039 board with EFT SW (Red Menu)
S2000        - Tested OK (Foster)

Use channel3 in SAS options and plug into RS232 port on comms board.

For 8032 Platform (S+ and PE+)

These machines have a DCS port on the motherboard. The DCS signals need to be converted to RS232 levels to communicate with app. Our options are
1. DCS to RS232 converter (Pics posted by SB). This will probably be the easiest to use but we need a schematic for this board and the wiring diagram from motherboard to this board (If we can get board schematics this is not critical)

2. It may also be possible to use the DCS to fiber converter (Pics posted by ForrHouse)with a RS232 to fibre converter on the PC side

3. Custom build a interface board

Ian

Forrhouse

Not great quality but have attached some details on the various Interface card options for AVP

AndyP

The DCS port on the S+/PE+ - Think you are correct about it being a current loop interface. Refer to attached for the interface on machine side. If you have any circuits for current loop to RS232 interfacing that would be great.

Ian

Hi Ian.  I found a ttl current loop (20ma) to rs232 schematic. This is the 1st file.

The 2nd file, is a zip file containg current loop to rs232 schematics, but need to be opened in Eagle pcb layout software.  Maybe someone can convert the schematic file to .png or .jpg.
.png would be better resolution.

Eric

Here is one that is rs-232 to current loop.  Maybe it can be modified to current loop to rs232.
If it can be modified, I like this one because it has some kind of protection so that you don't damage things on the rs232 end.
E~

Another thought is to combine the dcs converter and the current loop to rs-232 interface.

Eric

Thanks for the schematics. The first one confirms what Andy said in one of his posts that a couple of optocouplers will do the trick.

Still looking for schematics for the official IGT DCS to RS232 converter board that SB posted photos of - I think you mentioned that you also had one of these.

Ian

Ian.  No problem, and yes, I do have some of those DCS boards, but except for about 100 boxes I can't even look for the box they're in. It's bugging me because now I want to find them. They are realy simple boards though.   Finding where each traces goes shouldn't be difficult, maybe a couple hours worth of work at most.  It's only a 2 layer board. When I get my storage cleaned up so that I can actually walk in instead of just stand at the entrance, that will be a great day. Lol. 
 Eric

Based on the schematic you sent me, the DCS is most definatly current loop. Fortunatly I have some experience in this field, as one of my clients still has machines that use current loop interfaces, and I just designed the current loop parts in a new interface card for them! Looking at that schematic, there is two transmit and to recieve lines, each has different specs, so just need to figure out which one is used for SAS. Also, I can tell what the part number is on u47, maybe 2681 but the pinouts dont seem to match up with the datasheets I looked at.

You can buy current loop converters off the shelf, so shouldn't be to much of an issue.

I have to do some software upgrades for some clients tomorrow morning at 2am (damn casinos being open 24/7) so this will put me out of action for the next three days. I will photograph what interfaces I have after all the dust settles. I am going to be to busy in the mean time.

Got a question for all of you. I need to put some restrictions on the DLL to prevent people using it for commercial applications. Obviously I have a commercial interest in this product, so I dont want to see it used for commercial purposes.

I was thinking about restricting the number of machines the one port can poll. What is the max number all of you would estimate for hobby usage? Any other ideas?

Your Test App will never "go commercial" in North American casinos unless it gets approved by the all the various gaming commissions.
I cannot imagine the red tape the App needs to go through to get passed...

For the home market...that's a different story and probably highly illegal?
I have no idea...

you might need legal advice?

I doubt it would be illegal for home use.
Fair use comes to mind.

Now a determined hobbyist or engineer could break down the protocols with the right test and data capture stuff.
I had thought of doing that but I would not even know what hardware could decode the data so I can analyze it.

I would suggest that you create a license key that ties to the PC that its run on.
That way if you sell a person a 8 machine license they can't resell it, and they can't do multiple installations with it because it only works on the one PC.
People tend to use the CPU serial number for this combined with factors like the number of reported sectors on a hard drive.

This way even if someone images the machine the key won't work.

You could allow up to 4 machines to work without requiring a license. Did I mention I have 4 machines ??
The reason for this is that you don't spend your life issuing license keys for demo copies.

Then a new hard drive would invalidate the license... the current MicroShaft model. That would be a pain in the butt. MAC address and/or CPU S/N would be better, it would take a new computer to change those unless someone did a CPU upgrade.   :71-

For the longest time, our licenses were based on MAC address. :89-

They still are somewhat, but it's the MAC address plus a seed consisting of some other not-likely-to-change variables ( :58-) hashed together to calculate a license MAC, or the S/N plus another set of not-likely-to-change variables ( :58-) hashed together to calculate a license.

I just noticed some schematics in the back of the SAS doco. One of the fibre interfaces seems to match up with the DCS pinout names! I'll extract it out of the PDF soon and post it up.

Its not the test app, its the library I am creating. Its not my aim to put it into a casino, the idea here is to sell the library to developers of systems that use SAS. Therefore regulation control becomes an issue for the developer. What I am trying to protect here is my interested in the use of the DLL to prevent it being used for commercial purposes. SAS is all around the world, not just the US. I have had numerous people contact me since I joined the forum asking for me to hand out information for their commercial usage, so I know that people want this stuff.  The DLL would be of no use to a major casino, but it would be handy for smaller venues. The DLL is just an interface to the library I have written.

I am not going to lock it to hard drives or whatever, because then I need to manage licences etc. Its too hard. When I develop libraries for this stuff all we do is sell a single development licence for the user to do what they want with it.

Anyway, its just something that is in the back of my mind. Not to important at this stage because its far from being able to be used in a commercial sense.

I have 4 video machines and I am building  2 more.  I have 11 reel based machines that are brand X, 12 that are brand Y,   10 reel based machines that are brand Z,   5  reel based machines that are brand XY,   5 reel based machines that are brand YZ and Someday I want to add 4 bluebirds and 4 Alphas and maybe a few more of brand Y.  I would like to have the ability to get the machines to work with system all at once.  I'm dreaming of a house with a basement someday instead of having most of the above in storage.

The only thing I don't like about the copy protection previously discussed is that should the computer break down and be un-repairable,  then the software won't be usable.
I have several pieces of expensive pro audio software that are great, but the companies went out of business.  Hence, I am stuck with Nothing. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying don't protect it. For commercial purposes it's great, but for a home user it could cause future issues.

E~

Hello

Congratulations about this project, i work whit sas too in the past, please see the picture about the pinout for the tester interface, sorry for design but i try to make faster, but really works.


Best Regards

Next G

Bill,

Most PC drivers do allow you to specify a custom mac address. As long as the two machines are not on the physical network you would be able to fake it. Most people don't know how to do this so its security based on obscurity. I still think a hash related to some other component would be best. Perhaps the CPU serial number and not the HD.

Linux allows you to spoof the MAC as well, but there are hooks in both OSes to pull the BIA (real MAC) without the driver-specified MAC interfering.  :186-

Next G

Thanks for that Info. That will allow members that do have the IGT converter board to get their PE+ and S+ working.


SB

Ready for some more harness building :96-
Have you managed to get the app working on your PC?

Hello

Works perfect in s+ and poker, i don´t try this application yet, but i will, i used this board in the past for my application made on VB6, for wms 550 you have 2 options.

Single interface whit Max232, or direct signals on backplane RX TX Ground, the commands are the same for sas.


Best Regards 

Next G

Hello

This is the properly connector to plug the interface on poker machines maybe helps.

Hello NextG

Thanks for that info - I think so far we only have IGT confirmed interface detail and tested on the app. Would be nice to get details for  WMS and Bally.

Do you maybe have schematics for that board. I dont have one and would like to get my PE+ plus talking to the app.

Ian

Thanks for the PE+ motherboard pic location Next Gaming! :3- :244-

I actually have an PE+ on my desktop I can hook up
to in the morning after I construct another harness.
My only question is:
Where exactly would these 2 (highlighted with black arrows) wires be coming from?
I think one is V+ and the other is a ground.


TZ,
I have the Test App working on my s2000 now...
I am trying it on the PE+ and S+ in about 10 hours from now. :79-

Hello

When i used the interface i put 12vdc external power supply for the board , this have a 7805 Ic, however you can take the suplly voltage from machine.

Next G

Hey guys!
This is gonna be SO bloody awesome!!!! :133-
We've never been to really communicate with our home machines
other than my CDS DCU - which only read basic outputs from the S+ machine.

The small SAS interface board is much more readily available here in the US,
as many vendors don't even know what they are or what these are capable of.
The only problem is...I'd wish they'd stop throwing these old boards out into the garbage cans!!!! :37- :8-


I found several of these interface boards in my machines
and are all probably in good working order! :267- :199-

Hi

I see this board so many times on NLG and nobody ask properly about that, now can help a good purposses :79-
now let´s the machine to talk us.

Next G

NextG.   Thanks for all the great info. Now if we could find the schematics to that board.

@ Bunker.  Which CDS do you have, reel or video.? It would be nice to get both types working, after everything else is finished.
Same with the WMS 401/405 Dotmation games.

E~

I am wondering about the player tracking stuff.

Oh did I open another can of worms?

For whatever it's worth, when all is said and done, I'll have 10 machines in my game room that I'd ideally like to have networked together to be able to send credits to them and/or have a working basic TITO system (for the machines that support TITO).

Thanks again for your continued work on this -- it's really great.  :3-

I may have the schematics for that one (or something very similar). Will post up a PDF when I get into the office.


Lol, player tracking is easy. Just roll your own, plenty of smart card technology now that is easy for hobby. When you get a card in, you read turnover meter, when card is removed read the turnover meter again. The delta is the money spent during that session of play. Then you can make fun equations to turn money spend into bonus dollars!

Decided not to put a limit on it. Its not really commercially viable to poll via the serial port anyway. I will integrate it to work with the standard hardware (PCI 4 port fibre optic card) we supply to casino's.

I totally agree with this - there's not too many people nowadays
with a DB9 serial port on the back of their computers! lol


Forrhouse,
A few years ago I hooked up a Casino Data Systems ProLink Progressive Controller
between "Frankenstein", a few S+'s and my desktop PC.
I remember making a short video clip but I'm sure it's long been erased from my youtube accounts.
Basically the DCU collected coins-in data from the S+ motherboard's J12 4-pin header.
Of course, because it's a Progressive controller, it would notify me of a Jackpot or hand-pay.
I never hit the jackpot though... :96-

You made me take a look at it again this morning and I've noticed
several serial ports on the back for various inputs and outputs...
Hmm... :79-

Hi Bunker.Thanks for the info.  Let me know what you find out. I have 2 of those pro links. I don't know what cabling is needed though.
It would be cool to get those going one of these days.
Thanks,
Eric

Well,
I finished constructing the harness and have it hooked up to
an S+ motherboard onto the J4 header.
I'm wondering...is one or both of the two colored (red & green) LEDs on the left side
of the interface supposed to be on when powered up?

I have a 12vdc 1A power supply running the positive 12v wire to pin#2
and the GND wire to pin#4 on the interface board.

I would have thought that the LEDs would signify data signals TX & RX to me?

O0ps! I think I have to throw in a SET chip and enable the SAS settings in the options.... :25-  :72-

Live from the Explorer of the Seas!!   I'm just pulling up into Puerto Rico  -  3rd day of my cruise.      I'm reading this thread with great excitement - 
Are all communications in a casino done over a fiber network? 

I love the casino on the ship -  a lot of s2000 machines, I game plus and wms blue birds.   

I remember this video!

lol...Knowing you Munch - you looked at what machines they had on board before you booked it!  :97-

Watch out for them pirates!!  :266-

Okay Houston,
I've enabled SAS via a SET088 chip which corresponds with installed SP1271 chip
and SS4671 90% Double Cherry Bar 3CM on my S+ "Frankenstein".

The  ASSY NO 7542200 Interface board is fully connected with with a harness going to
the J4 header on the motherboard.

Another harness is running from J2 on the Interface back to my PC's serial Com 1 port.

That serial port is enabled in my XP's Device Manager - We have a Red light on DS1 on the Interface!!!!!! :267-
I have the DS1 Red light flashing uncontrollably... :72-

It appears I'm sending "Legacy Bonus" credits to the machine but
I'm NOT getting a response from the machine's MPU.


Now how do I get the "DS2" green LED to light up?
Should it be?
I've hit "Initialize" and am kinda stuck now.
Below is a screen shot of my serial port's settings.
Should I change anything?
I'm thinking the "Flow Control" should be set to "Xon/Xoff" or "Hardware"?
Maybe slow down the Bits Per Second?

Mark,

I am getting excited.
Do you have the uart installed in the motherboard as documented here.
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=10584.msg92282#msg92282 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=10584.msg92282#msg92282)

I wonder how the casino links their machines together.  I read about the sentinel - I'm guessing this is like a hub for a bank of machines.

Munch,
I'm pretty sure it's just like the pamphlet AndyP attached to one of his posts previously.
Huge bloody networking multi-fiber optic hubs.
("multi-fiber" sounds like long-grained rice....lol)


Jay,
It seems that this 10MHz MPU is fully occupied...
However, the link you supplied between Ozzy and Poppo did not indicate the chip numbers or anything.
Also, there a variations of the S+ MPU which have different socket numbering.
All they spoke of is socket U18....maybe different from mine?
Regardless, all the sockets on my MPU are filled.

I read that thread you pointed me to but it seems to me that the "Duart" chip should be installed in socket U27?
Right next to it however is the U18 socket.
The chip in it is labeled as: 8CAHH5K  SN74HC126N

The chip in the U27 socket labeled as the "Duart" socket has this on it: SCN2681AC1N28  KUA2054  9901hH

I just went back to check on the Interface board.
Apparently the Red Led doesn't light up now like it was doing earlier.  :8-
I'm highly suspecting a mistake in the drawing NEXT GAMING made up?
I've double checked my harness and followed his drawing exactly in the wiring harness.

Attaching two pictures to this post. >>>

Does not matter what you set the default comms port parameters to, because the DLL explicity sets all paramters before it opens the port.

Forget the legacy bonus poll for now. The DLL will be polling you machine for exceptions in the backround, so you should receive door open and closed exceptions for example.

Make sure you get the SAS poll address correct. Not sure how this is configured in the machine.

BTW. I have now completed the all the messages in the montana spec. Just need to add the mappings into the test app then I will put up a new version.

I have looked at the ticket in part of TITO, and have a rough idea how it works. I will mock something up in the test app and see how we go.

Thanks Andy  - 

 I think the easiest thing to start would be to watch how the machine responds when a printed ticked goes into the BV.   This is where I got confused a few posts back.  If the machine throws any code at all over to your dll when a ticket is inserted you should be able to respond with a hard wired legacy bonus amount.   

Simple and effective  (If the machine talks when a ticket is entered that is )

Then more complicated things can occur like actually storing the amounts and validating tickets and such.     

The way it works is, ticket goes in, machine generates and exception (67 i think). When the exception is received you poll the machine for ticket data, then you poll again to say ticket is valid.

I will just add a couple of buttons that sends validation data back regardless of whats on the ticket. When someone has time later they can hook it into a database backend.

Andy,

This is really exciting stuff.  I can't wait to get my new older laptop with a real serial port so I can check it out.  Thanks for all your hard work on this!  :3-

Wow TahNKS!!

You made my vacation!!!

Drunk at senior frogs... Will post sober tomorrow

A) Thanks, that's a good answer.
I'll just leave the serial port com 1 settings on default.

B) There actually is something called a "SAS Bonusing" option in the S+ settings under the SET088 chip.

C) That's where I think it's screwed up...
The S+ machine's address on page <0> is: ["XXX"]
The default numbers seen on the display is: ["000"]
I set mine to ["001"]




No go Houston...
I think I burned out my interface board. :60-
I cannot get any of the DS 1&2 LEDs depicting data signaling ( Tx & Rx ) to light up anymore.  :8-
I followed the drawings prescribe by NEXT GAMING and double checked my wiring harness configuration.
I have one SAS interface board left but I am NOT hooking it up until I can get some sort of
verification of the harness configuration and power voltages.  :81-

I have to let someone else be the guinea pig...
I suspect the his poker backplane J82 header is not the same as the J4 header on an S+ motherboard?

Actually TITO the host has to look up the ticket data
by the validation number on the ticket. the host then sends back the value of the ticket
The only machine readable data on the ticket is the ticket number the rest is printed so the player and cage can read the details of the ticket.
The cage scans the ticket to be sure it is a valid ticket as well.

Check your e-mail. Something seems odd with the wiring on that drawing. It does not match up with J4 completely. And I'm skeptical of the power lines indicated since J4 'should' provide the power.

I couldn't agree with you more Poppo but without the proper schematics of this board or
pin outs from an actual harness - I cannot take the chance of blowing up my last interface board.

Hi All

Finally Found, this is the original harness picture for this interface, unfortunately the part number is erased, however i think that this help about the properly connection, Whit this a external power supply is not required.

Best Regards
Next G

The picture is very low resolution and I cannot make out the colors of the wiring.

Are the 2 wires on the J12 Molex going to the 2nd and 4th pins on the J82 connector like in your drawing?
Also, is this harness for the S+ or the PE+ motherboards ( "Backplane" boards) ?

Hello


Yes, i don´t post the picture before because i can´t find the harness to much time retired of sas design, but i test in s+ an player´s edge.


Best Regards

Next G

Am I correct in saying that the J12 Molex is for the power to the Interface board?

The harness you have pictured - does it match your pin-out drawing?

 :103- None of those connectors seem to match up to a S+. Unless I'm missing something.

I've sort of stayed out of this thread because of the interface issue with a S+. A lot of things posted so far about the wiring, are not making much sense.

Poppo,
He's showing us the harness for a "poker machine"
I saw his picture he posted of what appeared to be a motherboard from a PE+.
The longer "J12" connector I believe would go onto that front right J9 header on a S+?
While the "J82" would go onto the J4 S+ mobo header.

Absoultely yes

What I Do

1-plug harness on the motherboard and j82 on the interface.
2-Setting the machine for "SAS" and give the address in my case 001 and save
3-Inmediatly tx led start blinking comunication are good.

before plug to computer i try to ensure first about this.

Best Regards

Next G

Again


Is the same for s+ i try to get picture for motherboard and try to upload.


Next

Still does not look right. J82 has 6 pins across and would not fit into J4 which is 10 pins (2 rows of 5) but might be for the SAS board. J12 'might' go into J9, but that leaves J6 which may go to J6 on the motherboard, but I'm not sure what J6 is for as I can;t find it on my S+ schematic.

>>edited to note that J82 and J12 (actually J9) has now been clarified.

So is J6 used? And if so does that mean J4 was wrong from the beginning?  :103-

>edit again. J6 seems to be for the BV. :103-

A wiring pin-out is still needed so people can make this cable. Or a really high resolution picture of it.

Hello


Finally understand :279-, the picture is something confuse.

in the harness picture

J12 had 15 pins
J6 had two rows of five pins each
the other go to J82 on the interface board

I try to make a video on saturday to show interface working properly.

Ok, so on a S+

J82 goes to the SAS board
J12 goes to J9 on motherboard
J6 goes to J4 on motherboard

Still really need the wiring diagram (i.e. J82 pin1 to J4 pin x, etc.) or a high rez picture so we can figure it out.

Also, this seems to confirm my earlier suspicion that the wiring diagram posted earlier was wrong. If you look at the original diagram pins 4,5,7 & 9 of J4 are used. However, the schematic shows pins 2,5,7,&9 are used. The picture of the cable shows a gap between the three wires and the single one (on the opposite side) which would support that the one wire should actually be connected to pin 2 and not 4. Without a proper ground from the machine (if using a separate power supply) it won't work right.

 :72-
I suspected a problem with NEXT GAMING's pin-out drawing 22 posts ago.
See Reply #218...

Thanks for figuring it out poppo! :131-
It's not easy to do when you don't have the actual board in your hands!  :3-

So the big question is - does it work now?  If it doesn't be sure to try swapping the RS232 tx and rx lines (pins 2&3) since we don't know for sure if those were annotated with a straight through cable or a crossover.

BTW, I have been looking at the schematics for the fiber link and there does not seem to be much difference other than going to a fiber coupler vice the MAX232. Both use a 74HC14 to clean up the pulses, and that's really about it. There are some extra components for daisy chaining the fiber, but not needed for a single connection. I might try to whip one up since I already have a MAX232 converter from one of my other abandoned  projects. :79-

Should I move the present #4 wire to pin-2 ?

Also, should I keep the walwarts 12Vdc  or put
the positive & GND from the J82's #2  & #4 into the J4?
If so, at which locations?

Hello Bunker

Yes DCS ground is at pin 2 on the DCS port. You can use power from the points indicated by Nxt Gaming. Before plugging in the interface card you can double check by measuring for voltages at points where the interface card plugs in as indicated by Nxt Gaming. You can double check this even further by tracing back from the 7805 regulator on your interface card to the point where machin harness plugs into interface card.

A few posts back you had the red light flashing on your interface card. I would guess that at that point the machine was communicating but was not getting comms back.

BTW the setup would be the same for S+ and PE+. Bear in mind that the socket numbers would differ (even from one revision to another of motherboard they change the numbers).

Still trying to get some schematics on the IF card. Poppo did raise a good point about the fibre board will also try and DIY.

Ian

Houston,
We now have full and total contact with an S+...




Success!  :136- :wa

All I did was change the #4wire to the pin#2 location!
Thanks to poppo for finding out that particular pin location.
I have both DS 1&2 LEDs blazing away!
The board did NOT burn out!
It works!
This is a blast to play with!

This is truly great news - I'm going to have to get these cables somewhere.

Great news. Thanks again for Next Gaming for posting the harness details and Poppo for spotting the mistake. Bunker do you still have that PE  + test rig. This setup will work on PE+ but would be nice to have confirmed test

Ian

lololo!!!
Thanks to everyone that's helped...
where's the kudoman?  :72-

http://www.youtube.com/v/P1KZUex07oI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US (http://www.youtube.com/v/P1KZUex07oI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US)

Yes TZ,
I am setting the PE+ test rig up now as we speak!  :91-

Very cool everyone.

SO - now that we have 1 machine communicating. How do we poll multiple S+ machines with only 1 RS232 on the PC ?

Do these boards then interconnect with Fiber ? or do you need to have a separate RS232 to each machine.

Mark were you able to transfer credits to the machine ?

Yes...it works "magically" ! lol

I'd imagine all you to do is assign an address to each machine
through the settings and the Test App will poll each one?

Here's my settings in an S+ using Double Cherry 3CM with a SP1271 game chip.>>>




Using SET088, I set the Accounting System Communication Type to: IGT SAS {2}  

SAS Communication Addy <0>, I set the address to: {001}

Bill Pay Mode<0> : "self-test selectable" {1}

Bill Acceptor <0> [9] :   enabled {1}

Coupon Capability or EFT <0> [11] : EFT enabled {1}

Country code <0> [30} :  US {37}

Progressive Selection <0> [31] : none {0}

Progressive Levels  <0> [35] : Didn't touch. Defaults to {1}

Progressive Type <0> [60] : Didn't touch. Defaults to {0}

SAS Progressive <0>[63] : Didn't touch. Defaults to {1}

SAS Bonusing <0> [64] : Disabled {0}

Denomination <6>: .25 cents

Standalone Progressive Setup <9> : Didn't touch.




I put SP1271 back in, closed door , got [61], pressed Test button for 2 seconds, "Ding!" [61-1},
closed door and turned Reset key once.
The reels spun their maiden spin to the pay line and the S+ immediately
communicates " Closed The Door" data to PC !

Hi To All

Awesome news good for all :244- :244- :244-, about multiple connections in one serial port, maybe it´s neccesary consider some things, because too many connections, make port buffer to collapsing, for each com port you can put 32 devices. and the sas protocol whit this feature in some occasions lose data packages, maybe all here can join knowledeges and build a properly interface to this purposses.
 :79-
Best Regards  


Next G

SAS looks to be small groups of bytes, probably no more than 128 bytes at a time.

Which baard do I need for the S+ and does anyone have one I can have?

There's one that appears to look like mine on ebazz.
It is a hard-wired one.
It goes on the back wall of the cabinet over the rear mounted MPU under the reel shelf.
I'm using an ASSY NO 7542200 board at the moment...
Stay away from the fiber optic boards...we have no way to to hook it up to a PC at this time. >>>


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130488854719&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130488854719&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)

These boards are going to become gold  :96-

Which power option did you end up using ?

Should this not be enabled ?     SAS Bonusing <0> [64] : Disabled {0}

I was wondering about that, too.  :89-

Do you need the power brick like this guy has listed ?

I don't think so.  In fact, in the auction he mentions that he doesn't think that wall wart belongs to the board as he said there's no place for it to plug in.

You cannot poll multiple machines with rs232. You need to use something like rs485 that has a transmitter that goes high impedance when no data is being sent. If you try and hook multiple machines to rs232 the outputs from the transmitters will clash.

Dont write of the fibre just yet, I will add the option to use it. I have just been focusing on getting a single point running with some basic messages to this point. Adding support for fibre is not really hard, its just another thing on the list and at this point I have it below TITO. If you guys want me to get fibre going first, let me know.

I dont know about the rest of the guys on here  :30- Most of this stuff is way the hell over my head  :52-
But for me, AndyP, Please  :131- TITO  :131- TITO  :131- TITO  :131-

Yeah TITO is the dream here.  I was thinking of hooking up
Several slots to a tcpip network via an rs232 converter.
I've done this before with other serial devices.

TITO would be apeasing to the mob......

What do you envision the PC interface to be for the fiber ?

I also have fiber to 100baseT / 1000baseT adapters.

Just google

I think IGT is using RS232 type transmission even over fiber
The RS232 chip on the S2000 is just a line driver/receiver, TTL/CMOS Logic to/from RS232 levels
All they send is various characters with the wake up bit at the beginning.

Those of you that are electronic gurus might be able to see that if you look at the S2000 comm board and its equivalent in the S+

In Other words IGT is trying to keep GM and backroom system interconnecting and programming simple.

Yes RS232 is slow compared to 10/100/1000 networking standards, but your S2000, S+ is not sending a graphics file or large amounts of data.
It and the host system probably only transmit about one line of text at a time.
and most packets are probably only about 3-10 bytes long.

We should be able to use the rs232 adapters
Over tcpip with the test app to do tito


One step at a time I suppose.   I need to buy
From someone the  plug for the slot machine end to
Make the rs232 cable.   

Will be back online Sunday -  night all

The fibre optic is not complex, it just requires a serial to fibre converter. The interface cards posted up here earlier can do that job. All you do is connect the rs232 side of the fibre converter to your pc. I just need to change my code so that it can handle reflected packets (ie data I send out on fibre comes back in, with the VGM packet following.

Anyway, when I get around to getting a new phone with a working camera I will take some pics of my interface card collection here.

For now I will work on getting TITO working, then worry about fibre.

I know some data is repeated or echoed with some changes for certain things to happen.
Voucher/ticket redeemption is one of them.

Wow, a lot was posted today.

To answer this, you can either power the uint with a wall wart or use the power from J9 (on a S+). Although that one shown is probably not for the unit.

As I noted above the schematic for the fiber board appears to be almost identical to that of the RS232 board. The only real difference is the fiber 'optic' is connected before/after the 74HC14 instead of going into the MAX232. Actually all a MAX232 chip does is bring the TTL signals up to the standard RS232 voltage levels. Some RS232 ports will actually work at TTL levels. In theory one could connect the TX and RX lines directly to the S+ and it 'might' work. There is no other protocol changing taking place.

Correct poppo. The only difference is that the signals use light instead of electricity. The protocol remains the same regardless of the format. The speed over fibre is 19200 baud, just as it is over rs232. Both use 8 bit data, with a wakeup bit.

Ok, for any of the electronics folks, here is a really crude schematic of the S+ SAS interface board. I used pictures of the original board to trace most of it out. It does not have the 'status' LEDs and I don't show the value of the pull up resistors on the opto-isolator (I need to look them up). Of course you need a 5v supply too, but you should get the idea.

All that happens is the signal out of the S+ goes though the opti-isolator, goes through two hex inverters, then goes into the MAX232 to be converted to RS232 levels. The signal from the PC goes though the MAX232 to convert to TTL levels, goes through 2 hex inverters, and though the opto-isolator back to the S+.

It would be pretty easy to breadboard one of these. Actually IMO the opto-isolator could be eliminated. It's more of a safety thing than anything to totally isolate the unit.

The opto is used to source or sink the current. Not sure what current the loop requires, but it may be possible to do with just some resistors and the max 232.

I have to dissagree. It's used for electical isolation. The input/output on the MPU are just TTL level signals. The fiber optic board does not even use them because the isolation is done by the fiber cable its self. The signal goes right into the hex inverters and straight out of a TTL AND driver.

different designers. Trust me, almost no need for isolation on rs 232. We used to design current looop converters with opto's all the time, and tie the input and output together just because it was easy and we had the parts in stock.

And the motherboard schematic posted earlier was definitely current loop.

It would be kind of cool to have a board that goes from DCS to both fiber and DB-9 connections.  If fiber and Db-9 (rs-232) can't  have  simultaneous outputs signals then maybe have a jumper or 2 to switch between the 2 different output types.  If possible have fiber optics implemented on this board in a way that you can Daisy chain s+ and or PE+ machines.
E~

That is an excellent idea Forrr!!!! :131-
That way, people that can only find the newer fiber boards aren't restricted to
trying to locate just the older hard-wired serial boards.
I suspect a lot of the ASSY NO 7542200 boards got thrown into the garbage cans at the
casino & slot store warehouses before they reached the open market.

But to actually design & make these interface boards work both ways with a plain old jumper is very cool!  :133-

Poppo! Great job on the board drawings you made! :89-
I just noticed that you were able to utilize the photos!
Awesome work! :244-


I have a question/suggestion...
Is there a way to write the [Initialise] button directly into the Test App so that it
automatically turns on whenever there's a signal going through it?
Or whenever the power is turned on?
I keep forgetting to hit it...lol

Thanks Bunker.  I think a lot of those boards were trashed. I'm sure some exist somewhere, but in my experience if they do still exist they've been thrown somewhere and forgotten about.
Also, the more parts you have in the signal chain, the more complicated setting up the system gets.  In my opinion, making one board that will take care of almost everything will not only simplify things, but it will save money.  The parts are not expensive and if purchased in bulk you save, save, save. If the boards are kept 2 sided then they should be pretty inexpensive as long as they are kept relatively small.  Ex. 3x5, 3x7, 4x5, 4x7    I'm sure that most people here have soldering skills and so packaging them into ready to assemble kits saves even more. This is SAS for the masses right?
E~

Why did they put two inverters back to back.

Never understood and this is not the first time I have seen IGT do something like that.

I have a spare S2000 comm board. it might become the S+ Comm Board.

Time to experiment with it and the S+.

I can do that. The test app was only designed for me to test my DLL, so its written in the typical fashion of an engineer, ie performs fuctionally but makes no sense to anyone!!! It was not meant to actually be used for anything!


I have designed a lot of interfaces for gaming machines. If there is enough interest, I am happy to put my old and currently unused skills back to use when I have some spare time. Dont expect it anytime soon though.


As an engineer its best to use as many 'jelly bean' components as possible. Using to inverters allows you to do pulse shaping without inverting the signal. If you have inverters, makes more sense to use them that to add another stock item to your inventory. Also, once its done and tested once, why reinvent the wheel. You just cut and paste out the parts you want from another design.

Then you get lazy like I do now. Put as much logic into programmable parts as possible. That way when you stuff it up you reprogram the part rather than redesigning the board!!

Trust me, I have worked on RS232 designs and it's not uncommon at all to use opto-isolators to prevent damaging equipment.

The MPU's output is technically an open collector design.

Ahh, so first you say the output was TTL, now you say open collector?  So what about the isolation on the board? Need isolation on the motherboard and the converter?

Huh?  :103- TTL is basically a logic level (transistor-transistor logic). Open collector is a type of output. Apples and oranges. You can find many TTL open collector chips. Apply 5v as the open collector output pull-up voltage, and the output is TTL level. Use 9V and it's no longer TTL level. The MPU uses an open collector driver transistor on it's output. This is why it can drive a 74HC14 input directly (at TTL levels) as it does on the fiber board, because it its pulled up to 5v (TTL level) via R1.

As I already noted, RS232 will typically use opt-isolators to protect equipment for a variety of reasons (especially older equipment). It electrically isolates the components. The fiber board does not need the opto-coupler because the fiber inherently acts as the isolator.

But enough about basic electronics. In a home enviorment, the isolation is not needed. All that is needed is the pull-up resistor before the inverter input.

I don't want this thread to get too sidetracked. But since hardware will be needed for the S+, and OEM may not be readily available, I just wanted to point out that the interface is pretty simple to build.

I talked to a friend of mine and confirmed that suspicion (I had the same idea as you, Mark).  He told me he'll set aside those boards for me for the future, and I'll be happy to make them available to NLG members if/when he gets some.  :89-

I have 2 boards only.
Believe me when I say I was really happy I didn't fry it because
of the the original pin-out drawing was slightly incorrect.
I am going back to those drawings in the earlier posts and change them.
The 4th wire on the J82 connector needs to go into the #2 pin location in order to work right.
Thanks to Poppo for taking the time to figure it out!  :3- >>>

This is the only board I have?  A previously identified Bally/IGT SDS board... Can this one be made to work with this in an S+?
(http://)

Look at the labels on the chips...they all say "Bally Systems".
However, there are settings in an S+ for "Bally Miser"...so it's possible?
But I'd say those are designed for Bally machines more so.

On the bottom left corner there's a 7-pin header that's labeled "NEURON READER"
I'm guessing it's more of a Player Tracking System board component.

For those that may have forgotten RS232 uses +3V to +25V for a space or 0 and -3V to -25V for mark or 1.
So do not connect RS-232 signals to a TTL signal without going through the Max 232 or other TTL to RS232 divers

You might  :98- :98- something relatively expensive.

For anyone who wants to build their own S+ SAS board, this would be a good start since it has the MAX232 portion complete, and even has a 9 pin serial port connector on it. Tack it onto a perf board with a hex inverter, add a couple of pull up resistors, and 5v voltage regulator, and you are pretty much done. Can probably built the SAS adapter for about $10.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170482445321 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170482445321)

K+ for that find.

This will still only allow polling of one machine.
Need to figure out the multi-drop interface to the PC.

I need some tickets to do some testing. The machine I have does not have a ticket printer, so I can make any tickets. So for those of you who have some tickets could you please scan them at a resonable resolution (on a dark coloured backround if possible) so I can use then to do some testing.

I do have some ticket printers here, but not sure if I have a harness to connect them to the AVP. I'll worry about that one later though.

Thanks.

I know to use 2 5 9 on J4 of the S+ motherboard. I am not worried about pin 7 (I need 13V to drive the S2000 comm board)
Pin 2 is Ground
Pin 5 is input or output?
Pin 9 is input or output?

Pin 5 is the output from the S+
Pin 9 is the input to the S+

Well either the S2000 comm board wont work or my S+ MPU has issues with the DCS stuff.
I get nothing.

This is what I am doing to connect the S+ up for SAS Test App
S2000 Comm Board. 75430110 I am using the supply that normally powers the Comm board and service lamp
The Supply has a 5V output that plugs into back of the comm board when mounted in that sub chassis.
I had to plug the 12V into the J80 pin 26  

Use J80 (Where ribbon cable would be connected if in S2000)
Pin 6 GND connect to S+ J4 Pin 2
Pin 16 TxD connect to S+ J4 Pin 5
Pin 17 RxD connect to S+ J4 Pin 9

Use J85 as the RS-232 port as you would in the S2000

as noted above
Pin 5 is the output from the S+
Pin 9 is the input to the S+

So it looks like you might have your TX & RX lines backward. If pin 16 is TxD, I would think it would need to go to the input (RxD) of the S+ pin 9. In other words pin 16 is transmitting the data and pin 9 is receiving it. Can't hurt to try swapping them. Sometimes the TX and RX lines can get confusing without actually seeing the schematic to see if they mean TxD (for example) is the output or input state (i.e. transmit out of, or transmit into).

Also make sure that your grounds from your +5v and +12v are tied together at some point.

I had this scan from before.  This ticket was created by a stand alone IGT S2000.  This machine was not in a casino enviornment when it was printed.  If you need a ticket from a casino machine, let me know...

Dan #2

Thanks for that. I wonder how they extract the dollar value. It is encoded into the validation data, but I thought it was irreversable. Guess I am wrong! Time to stare at that algorithm again!

I know this is a crappy picture.

Length is 6 1/8"
Width is 2 9/16"
Top Black Marker is 3/16" x 3/8" and is 1 1/4" from leading edge
Bottom Black Marker is 1/8" x 3/8" and is 1/4" from the leading edge

Black marks need to be up when feeding into the printer.

Andy. The atachment here is an official Ticket template for the EZ-pay system.
Thanks,
E

To help with the algorithm one would need more than one ticket.

I would suggest two with the same amount and then two more with an alternate amount

I have heaps of tickets, just dont have any with data on. I have no idea how the machine figures out what dollar value is on the ticket, but there is a ticket amount field in the message that tells you all the info about the inserted ticket.

I might see if I can find some cables to hook a printer to the AVP. I have a nanoptix printer, hopefully that wil fit in somewhere!

The only data that the machine can read by the BV is the bar code and it is the number below the bar code and on the one end of the ticket.

I have stated before that the ticket number is just that a number that is also a primary key to the validation server which holds a ticket/voucher database

That database probably has the following fields:
Ticket/voucher number (primary key) at least it would be a primary key in a database I would design for casino use.
Value
Date
Time
Machine or asset number
Location in the casino (maybe)
Redeemed or Cashed Field.

If the database is to merged into a larger database of a corporation that owns many casino's they may also add a field to ID the casino.

I might be forgetting a field or 2

When the ticket is validated the validation server./host transmits the value back to the machine as either a EFT or AFT transaction I am not sure which.

The value is printed so the patrons and employees know its value.
The cage still scans it to be sure it is a valid ticket and change its status in the database so it cant be used in a machine or cashed again.

The number on the barcode is what is called the validation ID in SAS protocol. This validation ID is derived from an algorithm that uses ticket amount in credits and time, then a few other funky things are done to the numbers.

When a ticket is inserted into the machine, it generates and exception 67. When this is recieved, you poll the machine for the ticket validation data. The response to this poll includes a field called ticket amount.

Obviously when you tell the EGM to print a ticket, the validation number is issued, and the value is known and this would be stored in your backend to validate the inserted ticket. But how the hell the machine figures out the ticket amount when inserted is beyond me. It might not actually populate that field. I'll do a build tomorrow and post it up on my website, then whoever has valid tickets can insert them and see what happens.

Here is a link relative to this.
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7118478/fulltext.html (http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7118478/fulltext.html)

Can that document be summed up simpler for the everyday layman like me?  :5-
Whew! That's complicated stuff!  :96-

I am not sure I got a ton of info out of it but here is a brief summary

We have the barcode format which would be important if we were trying to find a device that reads a particular format.

We now know that there are two identical electronic  copies of the number on the ticket plus the people-readable info.
For the machine readable
- theoretically the ticket should be checked against a database but if its not available this is a means to help control counterfitting.
- one is magnetic and the other being the bar code. As a consistancy check the numbers should be the same.
The purpose is that someone with a pen could alter the bar code to change the value to be 940 instead of 94 but as its also double checked via the magnetics you would have to alter both. Most people who are trying to fake a ticket with a pen probably don't have a device capable of reading and then rewriting a magnetic stripe.
- There is a maximum number of outstanding tickets before the numbers repeat

We got that the last two numbers are the unique identifer.
We got references to about 20 different patent numbers that supposedly should lead us to the exact algorithm to to validate the ticket.
I didn't have time last night to start digging through these.

               ***NOTICE!!!***
Do not use the S+ motherboard's J9 Pins #1 & #3 !!!!
They will burn out your interface board!

I wanted to eliminate my 12Vdc PS brick and utilize the J9 15-pin header
on the S+ motherboard as a source for power to the Interface board.
When I plugged it in, I noticed the DS 1&2 LEDs light up fairly bright then go out completely.
As I booted up the Test App, I received endless repeating errors and
I know the machine was not communicating with my PC.

I then disconnected the J9 connector and restored the power wires back
to the 12Vdc PS brick and still had no LED lights!  :37-

I then swapped my last known good Interface to the 12Vdc PS brick
and I now have restored communications with an S+ machine to my PC. :89-
For giggles ( I'm NOT really giggling...lol) I swapped Interfaces and verified
that the 1st Interface does not work anymore... :8-
I checked the schematics on the J9 header and saw that it is pushing out 11.8 volts VAC !!!  :279-

Another one bites the dust!  :98- :285-   :96-

J9 pins 1 &3?  :103- I thought it was pins 1 &2 that should be used. And pin 2 'should' be DC. It is +VB and comes from MPU J2 B26. If there is AC on that line, the MPU diode may be bad. But if it were bad other things would not work. Pin 3 is definitely AC and would measure ~12v AC to ground (since you are not measuring across both hot lines).

Oh, check your e-mail.  :89-

Excellent Poppo!
That picture of the connector is horrible...
I thought it was skipping the 2nd Pin location... :72- :25-

For now, I'm going to stay with the 12Vdc PS brick...
at least I'm assured it works...lol

                                        ***Update***

I tried moving the J9 Pin#3 to #2 as per Poppo's instructions
and it still doesn't light up. :60-
That board is toast...something fried when I applied 12volts AC to it earlier.

However, I took a chance with my last known good board with the
new J9 connector configuration and it works perfectly!   :88-
Both red & green LEDs are flashing nicely and communications
between the S+ and my PC are fully restored!!!  :136-
Much thanks to our expert in-house board technician Poppo!  :131- :3-

If you haven't already, Mark, label the fried board as bad so you don't try and use it in the future and get confused as to why it's not working.   :71-

I've actually just mailed it out   :273- :138- :288- a few minutes ago to get it repaired!  :88-

And yet just 40 minutes later... :72-


Glad it's working  :3-  Now just don't touch it.  :96-

Now we can send credits to the machine if we want and play them off instead of inserting bills. And when we get the ticket end of it going, watch out! The opportunities are endless, thanks.

I know...lol
But I knew you could fix it for us!  :114- :114-
You oughta get it in a few days!

Regarding the printer out on this board ........ has anyone tried to connect a S+ to a ticket printer yet ???

Would the cash out button trigger the ticket print or would this need to be done as a SAS command ?

Cash out should be configurable in the machine I assume. I'll have a look at the protocol and see if there is any config stuff in there.

I am just testing a few ticket in functions to make sure the right data is going over the wire as I have a few small bugs, and then I am going to do a build. Should have something up in the next couple of hours.

Ok. new version is up: http://users.tpg.com.au/adslcmdn/SASEGMTest/V1_0_0_1/SASEGMTestInstall.zip
I have fixed the Legacy Bonus bug and hopefully the installer is a little more user friendly now. It should be installing dot net framework 2 SP1 and should also now ask you to install the C Runtime if it does not already exist.

Does not look much different, but if you check the SASEGMWrapper.cs file in the install directory you will see a lot of new DLL methods. Some have been tested, some haven't. I am aware of several bugs. The C# guru's should be able to start using some of the calls, but if you change SASEGMWrapper.cs please foward me your changes and I will try and integrate them into my version. There is heaps of new polls to retrieve meters. All the messages in the montana spec have been implemented, but not all may work (not tested).

Two new additions to the form are the Ticket Val Data and and Redeem Ticket buttons. When exception code 67 is received, you can retrieve the ticket details using the Ticket Val Data button. When you retrieve the val details, the data is stored into some variables. When redeem ticket is clicked these details are then sent back to the VGM. I doubt it will work, but its worth a try. Please post up any ticket validation data up here. Just realised you cant copy from the list box on the form, but I will fix that in the next version.

Unfortunately I need to do some paying work now, so you wont see many changes over the next few weeks but I will keep watching this forum and I will endeavor to fix any small issues that arise.

Some one want to send me schematic of that interface board?

Check your PM for some info.

The installer sends us to Microsoft downloads onto the Dot NET Framework 4 Client download.
I had to Google Dot Net Framework2 SP1 to get to the correct download. >>>

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/confirmation.aspx?FamilyId=79BC3B77-E02C-4AD3-AACF-A7633F706BA5&displaylang=en (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/confirmation.aspx?FamilyId=79BC3B77-E02C-4AD3-AACF-A7633F706BA5&displaylang=en)

Bugger, still got it wrong :(

Installer has been low down on my list though. Might have to set up a Virtual PC to test it.

I let it do it's thing and it installed Dot NET Framework 4 Client. I already have Dot Net Framework2 SP2 installed. The program runs (but I don't have anything connected). So does that mean I am good to go?  :103-

I can't get this to get past the bloody error popup again : "Cannot Load the SASEGM.DLL module" thing again. ARGHHH!!!   :277- :7-

And it's in a bloody folder ON MY DESKTOP!!!  :wtf1- :276-   

Jeeshh!!! :72-

You can try:

Go to the Run item on the Start menu, and type:

regsvr32 <path & filename of dll>

Example:
regsvr32 c:\test\SASEGM.DLL

And to repeat my earlier question, if the program actually runs, does that mean everything is ok. Or will it fail somewhere else if Dot Net Framework2 SP1 is not installed. It seems SP2 should work, no?  :103-

Use the shortcut in the start menu. The test app tries to load the dll from the same path as its executed from.


I think I have the ticket in stuff sussed out btw. Like I said though, have to do some real work now, but will try and get into it when I have spare time next week.

Okay,
I tried it both ways...no go Houston...
Poppo's way using the "run" command box>>>    regsvr c:\test\SASEGM.DLL  gets a different error pop up box!  :97-

AndyP's way using the shortcut in the Start column does the
other old error "Cannot find SASEGM.DLL module, blah, blah, blah"

Bizzare. Something really strange is going on. Did you manage to get it going last time? IF so, what did you do?

if regsvr32 cant find the dll, then the app certainly wont.


Poppo, if the program runs that means that the dotnet 2 framework is installed. The test app will not run if its not installed.

 :72- You need to use the actual path that the dll is in. The 'c:\test\SASEGM.DLL' was just an example. Of course it's not going to find it (unless you created that directory and put it there).

Try
regsvr c:\Program Files\AP\SASEGMTest\SASEGM.DLL

Assuming you installed the program in the default directory.

I have no clue how the old Test App worked....
These are the programs installed on this computer.
It's a barebones desktop computer running XP solely devoted to my S2000 and S+.
Click to enlarge if needed...>>>

Its possible there is some dependency issue. The dll wont load if there is a missing file. I'll check to see if I can see any obvious dependencies that are missing.

There is a tool called dependency walker, yo could try that. I just looked it up and all I can see is Kernel32.dll and MSVCR100.DLL. The former should be on your PC, the latter installed with the VC++ runtime.

FWIW, I installed this last version for the first time (i.e. did not install previous versions) and it runs. I also did let it install the Dot NET Framework 4 Client since I figured it was supposed to.

I guess the question is - has anyone else updated over an older version and NOT had a problem.

regsrv32 wont work btw, as I have not defined any entrypoints for it. However it should still give you some indication (ie it will load but wont register or something like that).

I might add those calls in to allow it to be registered.

Oh. I thought that by manually registering it, it just forced Windows to know where to look for it. Since he got the other error that it could not find it in the non-existent c:\test directory, it appeared that it was at least looking for it there.

I highly recommend dependency walker (its free). Use it an open up the dll. It will report any errors. Do this and put the results up here.

Actually, I think I can see the problem. I think I lied earlier on about vc version dependencies. The c runtime version is actually version 10. The dll in question is MSVCR100.dll. This dll should be in the c:\windows\system32 directory. If its not, that may be the problem. I doubt this version is included in the redistributable (probably MSVCR90.dll only) . ITs odd that it works for a majority of people though.


I have only just started using visual studio 2010 and I am finding some serious bugs in it. It also defaults to use things I dont want it to use.

Will you stop lying! lol  :208-
Anyways,
I downloaded the DW program and it shows that I don't have it...
So you're saying I need the 2010 version of VCR++?  
Click on picture to enlarge if you need glasses...lol   >>>

Probably because he does not have much loaded on that machine. Most people probably installed something else that put it on theirs.

Ok, yup that is the problem. My bad. Turns out you need version 10 of the visual c runtime. I dont think that would be included in the redistributable from MS.

TRy this: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=a7b7a05e-6de6-4d3a-a423-37bf0912db84

Visual Studio 2010 is really starting to piss me off, I can assure you.

I installed Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime 2010 version.
I then ran the Dependency Walker program typing in SASEGM.DLL and it located the newly installed MSVCR100 file.
I am going to try the TEST APP again and see if the module is "found"...>>>

Well...whaddaya know?!?!?!?!  :136-
No errors popped up!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wheeeee!!!!!!!!!
I'm going hook it up now....

Yay for dependency walker!! Another problem solved!

lol...well partly...check this out...
For some reason, I'm stuck on :    "01:"

No other lines showing...

"Uhhh...Houston...what is zero one colon???   
It's not in the checklist"  :5-   >>>


http://www.youtube.com/v/1UB5HI-6JQw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US (http://www.youtube.com/v/1UB5HI-6JQw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US)

About all I can do right now is cheerleed from the sidlines, but that's great news, and thanks for all you've done so far.  We look forward to your continued efforts when you have more free time in the future.  :3- :3- :3-

I got comm between pc and S+ as well Builing my own interface with Max232

Thanks poppo for a clear schematic  :259-

I built mine with parts from unusable cham II (Not a + or SA version)
I substituted a 74HC04 (it is also a hex inverter)
You do need the hex inverter to make it work.
I also installed 1K ohm Pull up resisters, it works with and without them (I test built it on a solderless breadboard.)
I will build a soldered version this weekend.

You are a good tester!!.

The excpetions are printed as a 2digit hex value, followed by a text description. 01 is not a valid exception code. However, if your poll address is set to 01, then perhpas what you are seeing is the machine chirping. I dont handle chirps just yet, but basically they are sent when the machine is not being polled. Maybe check the transmit lines from the PC to the machine. Obvioulsy you are receiving data, but the machine is not seeing anything.

Some machines have a protocol analyser, if your machine has that in the service menu's maybe give that a try. It looks like your machine is a stepper, so might not offer that option.

Just to clarify for others that the schematic I sent him was slightly different than the one I posted earlier in this thread, and eliminates the opto-coupler.

Could you post it for everyone's benefit?

Andy, I have Visual Studio 2003. Are there any compatibility issues that you know that I might come up against?

I plan to post a cleaned up version as soon as I test it myself because it was just a 'theoritical' concept I sent to Foster. I'm not sure if he changed anything. But for now, here is what I sent him. What I felt was important in this version is to send +5V OUT to pin 7 of J4. This gives Q21 (that open collector output) on the MPU a TTL level power source. Without it, Q21 won't do anything and the machine won't output any data. The schematic does not show the +5v power supply. You have to supply that somehow, but I will include it later to get it from J9 like the original SAS board.

Is anyone else using this latest version and having the same problem? I'm asking because I'm getting ready to test some hardware and need to know if the app is broke or if Bunker just has some other issue.

Foster - what version did you use when you got it working?

Okay,
I just hooked up the TestAppII to the S+.
I noticed a different behavior with the program.

Last night we hooked up the S2000 and when I hit the "Initialize" button,
the "Poll Address" box grays out and I got a [01:] in the report box.

On  the S+, when I hit the "Initialize" button, I still get the "Poll Address" box to "gray out"- 
but the report box does NOT populate with the [01:] or anything...
It is blank.

On the earlier Test App, I was at least able to get the two ds 1&2 (green & red) LEDs on the interface board to light up...
With the newer App, I'm lighting up the green ds1 LED only.
However, the green ds1 is not lighting up just because I hit the "Initialize" button -
it starts lighting up as soon as I boot up the S+.
Has anyone determined what the green ds1 LED is for compared to the red ds2 LED?

The TestAppII is having far less communications than with the older version.



"Uh...Houston, we have a problem..."

The solution files wont be backward compatible. The code will be. The only code I supply is the c# for the test app. Best off downloading the 2010 visual studion express edition for c#/


It worked for me. The only change to the comms is the polling speed. I changed it from 1second to 200ms. This can be configured via a call to the DLL, but no support in the test app at this point.

If it does not work, maybe try the old version again. If you want to keep both versions, copy all the files out of the install directory to a temp directory before installing the new version. If its too late for that you can uninstall the new version and install the old version.

FWIW, I have some activity on my S+. I am only using a MAX232 connnected directly to the machine, so there may be some issues with that. But I am getting '53: No progressive information has been received for 5 seconds.' (I do have progressive enabled).

Nothing else does anything. Is the older version still available somewhere?

Waay back in reply #32...lol

First time downloaders should read the post first:
Waay back in reply #32 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=11467.msg99740#msg99740)

Direct link to the first version:
http://users.tpg.com.au/adslcmdn//SASEGMTestInstall.zip (http://users.tpg.com.au/adslcmdn//SASEGMTestInstall.zip)

Thanks.

Ok, I tried that one and it does the same thing. I think I need the hex inverters. But at least it is communicating to some degree.

I wonder if having progressive on is somehow screwing things up. Maybe I will try turning it off and see what happens.

Just for grins I changed the poll # to 2 and got the 01: like you said you were getting.

How soon after you hit the "Initialize" button?
I don't even get that.
I un-installed the newer TestAppII and re-installed the 1st App.

Ok, I turned off progressive. Got rid of the nagging '53: No progressive information has been received for 5 seconds.'
Keep in mind I had a home-brew progressive so there was no talk back to the machine which is probably why it has been nagging.

I am getting other info like door open etc., so I am receiveing data. :71-  But I can't get it to add credits or anything else. So I probably need the hex buffers to get it to talk to the machine. Time to go  :79- some more.

Poppo,
Can we see a screen shot of that?
All you did was install the older Test App version right?

I got it immediately with the new version after hitting initialize. I don't get anything with the old version (when I change the poll)

Ok, here is what I did.

1. Installed new app (never had old one).
2. Rigged up my MAX232
3. Started app and got the progressive info.
4. Swiched the app to poll address 2 and got 01:
5. Uninstalled new app and installed original.
6. Still had progressive messages.
7. Turned off progressive.
8. Progressive messages were gone, but other messages still worked (like door open)
9. Changed it to poll address 2 and it did nothing.

Now my problem seems to just be that I am not talking to the machine. I need to work on that. At least this proves that just a MAX232 alone will recieve the data.

That's great poppo!
What are your SAS settings in the S+ options?
There must be some difference there?

I set up evetything on the SP1271 just like you had posted earlier.

Did you ever have the other buttons working like add legecy credits or ROM version?

Does SAS bonusing need to be turned on? You posted it was set to 0 (off)

Update.

Apparently I am talking to the machine as the ROM signature does come back. But it takes a while as someone else pointed out. I think I just need to turn on SAS bonusing. Let me go try that.

I did have the Bonusing turned off.
I haven't change any machine settings since that post.
I wonder if something happened to the "known good" interface?
I left the serial plug in the computer all night but both the PC and the S+ were turned off.
I cannot get the red ds2 LED to come on.

But were you able to add credits? I can get the ROM signature so I am fairly certain that I am talking to the machine, but I can't add credits even with bonusing on.

BTW, my Transmit line (from the PC) fell off and I got a 01:  So I would check all of your connections.

Poppo

If you are getting messages coming through your interface is fine. I would suspect settings. Apart from the SAS bonussing which I am pretty sure should be enabled also check your credit limits for bonussingor maybe just regular credit limit.

Ian

The only thing I did to Poppo's schematic
I changed the 74HC14 to a 74HC04 (that is what the Cham II had on it)
I added pull up resistors to the TTL TX and RX lines on the S+ side.
I will test it thoroughly tonight without them to see if it still works.

This is making me  :277-

I can receive data fine. I can get a ROM signature (but it takes a while). So that tells me that I am talking to the machine. But I can't add credits.

Oddly, the SAS bonusing option keeps going back to 0 after setting it to 1 when I go back to look at it with the set chip.  :103- I don't know what I am missing.  :103-

Does anyone have a S+ that they actually have the credits working? If so, what SP chip are you using and what did you set eveything to?

I'm thinking that maybe the Test App killed our PC serial port Tx?  :103-
I'm still not getting the red ds1 LED to light up...  :37-

I just finished running continuity tests on all the connections of the harness...
they all check out fine but still no Tx out to the S+ interface.
At least you're getting some Rx back from the S+ interface.

The green flashing ds2 LED must be the Tx from the interface to the PC?
But I'm not getting ANYTHING coming or going...

Okay...
I was right about the serial port being knocked out...
I restored the serial port Com1 by disabling it first in the Device Manager, then re-enabling it.
The two ds LEDs on the interface are back in action!
Still no love in the TestApp1 though.
Still a blank report page.

I'm going to re-install Test AppII and see what happens.

Were you ever able to add credits to the S+?

I don't want to be on a wild goose chase if there is something not working or it won't work with a SP1271

I did a complete ram clrear. I even put in a new EEPROM to have a blank slate. Still no go.

<edit> Argh!!!! Maybe this is why. From the SP1271 PSR

Cumulative SAS bonus amount   Displays 0000 because this version does not support SAS bonusing.   Displays 0000 because this version does not support SAS bonusing.

I had a Type 2 chip like SP1274 last week I think and was running a Haywire SS chip.
But that PSR for the SP1274 says the same thing as yours>>>
"Displays 0000 because this version does not support SAS bonusing."
I don't think that's the problem.

And yes, I was able to add credits at the time.
I'm thinking of un-installing all these versions and just re-installing
the Test AppII to get at least as far a you've gotten poppo.

I have the first two settings in the options as [2] IGT SAS
and the machine address as [001]
The rest is like I showed everyone earlier.

I thought maybe you had something different than mine in the settings,
besides the SAS Progressive turned on - which I never did because
I didn't install a progressive in this S+.

Another older SP Haywire Type 2 chip (SP873) seems to be a little simpler and it looks
like it has the accounting for cashable , downloadable credits.
Check out the PSR for it>>>
 

Then I am at a loss. The SP1271 SAS bonusing option does not stay set at 1 (enabled). So IMO if it's not enabled, it's not going to work. I will try a SP1274 and a haywire chip and see what happens.

If I was not getting the ROM signature response, I would think it was a communications issue, but that is working. I hate to fiddle with the hex buffers if they really are not needed.

1271 UGGH !

I upgraded from a 731 to a 1271 due to a weird bug??
Under 731 I could not have Link (MIKON) as my primary Progressive and a IGT standalone as my secondary. The reverse was valid. Two links was valid, two standalones but not the desired combination of the main progressive being a link.

If SAS bonusing doesn't work isn't EFT supported ??? as that is probably a more accurate way of adding credits.

Well, I am about to give up until someone can come up with an exact configuration that works (on a S+). I tried a SP1274 and haywire chip, but still can not add credits. And the SAS bonusing option still will not 'stick'. Every time I go back in with the set chip it is back to 0. And I've tried every method to save the setting. It's like as soon as you put the SP1271 or SP1274 back in, it resets it to off.

Ok, I am going to try one more thing. The PSR for SP1145 specifically notes that it supports SAS bonusing.

<edit> crap That is a 16mhz board chip and wigs out in a 10mhz. However it does let you see that SAS bonusing is enabled and the setting does stick. So I still think it's a SP chip issue. You need one that supports SAS bonusing. Time to look through my PSRs for a 10Mhz one.

SUCCESS!!! Sort of.

Using a SP1145, I am able to add credits. So this seems to confirm that the SP chip needs to support SAS bonusing and the SP1271/SP1274 don't.

It also confirms that all that is needed is a MAX232 as an interface.

Now, I don't have a lot of PSRs, so can someone look and find some 10mhz SP chips that supports SAS bonusing. This 16mhz SP makes everything run really slow in a 10mhz board. But it works!!!  :71-

Ok, here is the simplest interface that will work. I can not guarantee it will work on every S+, but it works fine on mine. It is imperative that you OUTPUT +5v to pin 7 of J4. As noted earlier, this is needed for Q21 on the MPU to work. If you don't supply the +5v there, it will never output anything. You must also tie your +5v power supply ground (J4 Pin 2) to the cabinet (machine ground) somewhere.

I don't know about EFT down the road. But for now it looks like SAS bonusing is the only option for S+

Hi Guys

I have used SP1213 on a number of systems over here (ACE,SIP,Crystal Web,Acres).

Poppo - Thanks for posting the interface details.

BTW found a harness for a DCS to RS232 for a commercially available system and its interface board consists of 2 opto isolators and a few passive components. Been a really hectic week so have not had a chance to try and get this to work on the PE+ DCS port but will keep you posted.

Edit - SP1213 does EFT

Ian

Gladly.  What game type do you need?

Hi All

V2 installed without any issues on my laptop. Running a FTDI USB to serial converter to the I Game comms board and all functions in V2 working (Sorry I cant confirm TITO stuff as I dont have TITO hardware installed).

Have checked and machine does send through a change button pressed event - I suggested earlier that instead of having to worry about TITO etc we could make a small mod to the program and download a pre defined amount of promo credits just by pressing the change button (Call attendant).This will allow you to add credits easily from the machine

Attached screenshot of app running on State Fair 17" I Game.

Andy - Thanks again for all the effort you have put in on this.

Would it be possible to add a acknowledge to a cashout request to clear credits from machine?

Ian

Poppo,
Is this a good kit to get?
Looks like they're tying in the grounds together...? >>>

http://sodoityourself.com/max232-serial-level-converter/ (http://sodoityourself.com/max232-serial-level-converter/)

For testing this, I guess a type 5 will do. But ultimetly we will need to know which ones support it for all of the general types (0, 2, 4, 5, 21)

Probably will work fine.
I posted this link before. I ordered 2 of these already and will report how they work. Only $3.99 shipped. Still need to provide a +5v supply though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170482445321 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170482445321)

I actually built mine into a DB9 connector. This was from an old project.

Thanks for the Link Poppo

If anybody is going to go ahead and get one maybe get one of these as well
http://cgi.ebay.com/PC-USB-RS232-RS485-UART-TTL-Signal-Converter-/180560121332?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0a38cdf4 (http://cgi.ebay.com/PC-USB-RS232-RS485-UART-TTL-Signal-Converter-/180560121332?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0a38cdf4)

This should allow Multiple S2000/Igames to be connected via RS485

Heck!...might as well go all the way and make it wireless!    :72-

So assuming someone has the stock IGT board for the S+ . I think from Bunkers description that they were RS232 ? and that the fiber version offered a daisy chain solution for multiple systems, Is there a rs-485 option for the S+ ? or is Fiber our only path forward ?

Does the S2000 have both Rs232 and Rs485 interfaces ? (Rs485 being the multidrop).

While it may not be pretty, here is the whole thing. I have the MAX232 built into the DB9 housing as shown earlier, I am using a +5V (regulated) wall wart from my parts bin. So I just have the 4 wires coming from J4 and tied it all together. Later I will neaten things up. Note how I tied the blue ground wire to the hopper plate. But anywhere will do.

Is that grounding necessary if you use the power from the S+ connector instead of a wall wart?

I'll start going through the PSRs and I'll add the SAS stuff to the SP/ST list sticky post in the S+ section so we'll have it for future reference.  I'll let you know here, too, when I come across a Type 5 one that supports it.

Correct. RS232 only on that board.



I think fiber would be the best option for daisy chaining. But I don't know if anyone has actually seen a S+ fiber board. I've only seen the schematics. I'm more of a hardware guy than software, so I don't know how daisy chaining would work with RS-485. Looking at the fiber board schematics, it looks like they use some sort of AND gate to block the output of the machine if it's not currently being addressed. This lets other traffic go down the 'wire' without collisions.

This may also be an issue. It is from the SP1145 PSR


That may rule out daisy chaining on a S+ since they can't all be set to 001 (without going to EFT)

No, since that ground is a 'common' ground. BUT you still need to use a +5v regulator if using the voltage from J9.


The SP1145 specifically states SAS bonusing near the beginning. So I guess that is what we are looking for.

I've only gone through about 1/4 of the S+ PSRs so far, but it looks like we really, really may want to expand into the world of EFT once we get this stuff better figured out.  Of the PSRs that I've gone through so far, many support EFT, and most do not support bonusing.

Hopefully EFT will be a future option for this project.  I can't imagine trying to get a machine older than an S+ involved with the network aspect of this project, and if the S+ can support EFT, chances are darn good that machines made after it can as well.

(I don't know how that will bode for the PE+ or any non-IGT games (like a Bally 6000, for example).)

Please be sure to note any that you come across that do support it. And if it's 10mhz or 16mhz. Maybe none of the 10mhz ones do. :8-

But I agree, if there was a way to use EFT on the S+, it should work with just about any SP.

On a side note, using the new version of the app, Here is what works and what doesn't on a S+

Works:
Logging all events like power up, door open, door close etc.
ROM signature - but takes a LONG time to show up (like 5 minutes).
Legacy Bonus - but only on SP chips that support SAS bonusing

Does not work:
SAS VER / EGM Serial
Meters 10-15
Machine ID and info

Unknown (since I have no tickets)
Ticket Val Data
Redeem ticket

Warning!!!

Don't add several thousand credits if your hopper limit is set high and you are already near your credit limit . :25-  
2000 coins takes a lot of hopper refills.  :72-

Check out the list:
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=68.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=68.0)

I've only done SP's 1000 and above (I ran out of time to do the others today).  If you do a "Find" (Crtl + F) on that page for the word "Bonusing" it will highlight the SPs that support it (although a few PSRs made a point of saying that SAS Bonusing was NOT supported, so I made a point of posting that information if it was available).

I'll go through the rest of the PSRs and update the rest of the list by next week.

I still believe that EFT would be the way to go, and hopefully we can graduate to that at some point.


Does anyone have any information about SAS Bonusing and/or EFT ability for the PE+?

Thanks and +K for your work. It does look like most SPs that support it are for 16mhz boards, or oddball game types.  :25-

I am now believing that EFT is the way to go if possible on ther S+.

However, I also wish some of the other features would work like getting the meter readings. Maybe even do some calculations to see what your current actual percentage and hit ratios are.

 :279- :208- :279- :208- :279-

Sure sounds like something that I might do by mistake!!! :208- :208- :208-

CH :95-

I have made a permanent version of Poppo's Schematic without pull up resistors.
It works properly.

I am powering it from the S+ J9 connector by using a 7805 +5V voltage regulator.
You will have to tie J4 Pin 2 GND to J9 Pin 1 GND, if you decide to power it from the S+.

That's great Foster!
Can you revise the drawing so we can see how it's wired up?

I'll bet it's not connected to J9 pin 3  :96- :72-

shh!!!  :30- :30- :30-     :96-

Yup. I had an issue where i needed to ack a cashout, will sort that one out soon.

S+ DCS (TTL) to RS232 Interface Schematic

Use a female RS232 connector aned it will plug right into com port or usb to serial port adapter

Modified as suggested by poppo to add filter caps for power.

Also U2 can be a 74HC04 or 74HC14. I have not looked up the differeneces between them.

Better artwork than mine.  :96- 

As I noted, I am not using the hex inverters, but it certainly can't hurt, and may make things more reliable. I would probably add some filter caps on the voltage regulator though since the supply voltage from J9 is not very clean.

Schematic modified

 :259- for Poppo

TinyCAD works wonders once you get used to it.

Foster and Poppo.  Nice job!  What would it take to add a fiber connection parallel to the DB-9 connector to allow for simultaneous signal output in both of these formats?   This would make it an all around board allowing the possibility of daisy chaining.
Thanks,
Eric

Something that's got to be resolved, and correct me if I'm wrong anyone, but right now the only way to add credits is via the Legacy Bonusing feature, and at least on an S+, the SAS address must be set to 001 in order for SAS Bonusing to work.  If the machines are chained togehter and are all set to an address of 001, there's gonna be issues.

What would not be too difficult is to use RS232 to the first machine, then use fiber as the daisy chain. I am studying the fiber schematics. Sending data TO all machines is easy. The problem is how to isolate the returning data. In theory only the machine being addressed will send a reply. And the fiber board has a type or 'OR' gate to allows the signals to mix. I don't see it as a big problem to overcome.

Yes, this is a show stopper for using SAS bonusing. Not only have we determined that very few SP chips support it (on a S+) and nearly all of them are 16mhz chips, but the address needing to be set to 001 will make daisy chaining pretty much useless. EFT will really be the way to go IMO.

What happens if you set the machine address to [002], or [007]?
Doesn't it go up to [127]?
I could be wrong but the [001] address just means you can't have it set to [000] to work?

I don't know. The PSR made it sound like 001 was the only valid SAS bunusing address


If other addresses work, it should have said


I'll stick my SP1145 back in and try a different address and see what happens..

IMPORTANT!!!!

Ok, I just changed my SAS address to 2 and after setting the test app to address 2, I was indeed able to still add bonusing credits. :71-

However, that still leaves the daisy chain problem and the limited S+ SP chips that support bonusing.  

For a simple setup where someone just has a few S+ machines and only wants to be able to add credits, a RS232 swich box would work. They can be found on e-bay for a few bucks. Just leave them all set to address 001 and just flip the switch to the one you want to add the credits to.

EFT and TITO will probably be more complicated and require the daisy chaining.

Can not parallel fiber to the DB 9
Either add the fiber circuits on the TX/RX lines between the 74HC04/14 and the MAX232, or replace the MAX232 with the fiber components.
When you have 2 logic outputs driving one input you can have strange problems.

The OR gates allow both signals to pass.
Can some one post the S+ DCS to Fiber schematic?

I don't have it at the moment.
Found some other old stuff in the manual>>>

Is this the s+ communication board?

It may very well be Munch, but I'd open it up to verify if it's a serial or fiber optics board.
The black plastic cover is hiding the board effectively...lol
Generally, these boards were placed on the back wall of the cabinet over the rear-mounted MPU cages.

Your picture is sideways?
Or is the machine laying down?   :200-

Here is a crude modification to the S+ fiber board that would allow RS232 to the first machine and fiber to the rest (using unmodified fiber boards on the rest). The red and green lines show the data to/from the first machine to the MAX232 (and PC). The blue lines shows the data to/from the next segment of the daisy chain. The 74HC08 allows the 'mixing' of the signals.  

Two fiber lines are used between machines. One for TX and one for RX. Basically the same as 'copper' for RS232, only using fiber.

The second picture is the original schematic. Note it has a 110vac input and generates all of it's voltages from that.

Great - I think it's the comm board then
It has a 5 pin molex in it that when I unplugged
Didn't bother the machine at all. That
Cable runs down to a board on the bottom
Of the machine.

Yes, it appears to be the fiber board. There will be  2 fiber jacks on the top end and 2 on the right side (based on the orientation of your picture)

It would seem everyone is keen to start using fibre. Its a pretty simple mod so I might add the ability to poll with fibre in the next version too.

OK -   Here's my idea until we can crack the TITO algorithm  - 

Trying to overcome huge obstacles here - 

1 - had to dig up serial cables
2 - had to hack some cable to fit into the S2000
3 - find a computer with a serial port

NOW the hdd in the laptop with the serial port died  - so I'm stuck until I get the USB to Serial adapter.

TITO algorithm is cracked, just not coded.

What I will do in the next release is allow support for one ticket to be printed, then redeemed. I will also start thinking about a back end so the printed tickets can be stored in a database. I will be using microsoft sql server for this, and it may even find its way into the next test app.

BTW. That installer thing forcing .net 4 framework to be installed is a known microsoft bug. I cant do anything about it at this point

That's great news...


We have to get bluebirds to print tickets now !

Thanks Poppo -  I took the cover off and it is a communications board  -  too bad it's fiber.    I'm not hot on fiber.   Aren't the cables really expensive?  They look like ST connections.

Fiber cables are NOT expensive depending on where you buy them.

If you go to cost-co or best buy and get a HDMI cable you can expect to pay a min of $29 for a cable. I am sure they have "hi speed" cables for up to $100.
HDMI is a spec. NO such thing as one cable being more hi-speed than another. Sure there are quality differences from cable to cable but a lot is bluster and Bulls**t.
You can get HDMI cables at mono-price www.monoprice.com for $6-12. This is just an example of how different retailers rip us off.

Fiber optic cables have different types of connectors. ST (standard twist) seem about right for this era. SC (Standard clip) and LC (Little Clip) are too new.
I might suggest triangle cables for these. www.trianglecables.com or if your in Canada www.albertacomputercable.com

Rs232 is singluar and the fiber will allow us multi-drop capabilities.
Even if Andy doesn't get fiber worked into the next release if he puts polling in place where we set a min-max address rather than specific addresses. This will get us a lot closer to a multi-machine capabilitiy.

MAX232 ADVISORY!!!!

Ok, I ran into an issue today. I went to make a second cable for my other S+ and could not get it to work. I was geting random replies. I used my original MAX232 cable and it works fine. So it is in the MAX232 setup. I even added the hex inverters but it was a no go. I'm a bit puzzled on this one and I have a feeling it has to do with the MAX232 capaicitors I used in the original vice the second unit. I'll report back when I figure out just what the problem is.


<edit> Problem solved. The MAX232 converter I was using was a pre-built one from another one of my many projects. It was uising 47uf capacitors for some reason.  :103- They need to be .1uf.
All is well now.  :71- So this is two S+ machines that work with just a MAX232 and nothing else.

Here is an updated schematic of the MAX232 interface. It is slightly different than the one posted earlier, but its what I am actually using. I don't know if pins 4-6 and 7-8 on the DB9 need to be jumpered for this to work or not, but they are on mine.

The fibre optic cables are avago versalink or versatile link, formerly agilent, formerly hp. The connectors are versatile link connectors.

First google link: http://www.i-fiberoptics.com/patchcords.php?id=1

I think there are some issues that need to be addressed, specifically for the S+ folks (since I don't know if S2000 has fiber built in).

1. Where are people going to get the fiber boards?
2. How will they interface it with the PC (i.e. exactly what hardware will be needed on that end)?

It will be great to have support for fiber, but it will be usless if people don't have a way to connect to their machines.

It would not be that hard to get the fiber TX and RX components and build a RS232 to Fiber interface.
In fact the S2000 comm board and the S+ DCS to Fiber schematics can be used to help design one.

This has been my question for a bit.
We will need to be building a RS232 to Fiber connection or buy a convertor.
I have a Rs232 to fiber convertor but have always used these in pairs so I can run from one side of a plant to another.
. Rs232--Fiber--Rs232

I would be very surprized if this was an open archtiecture that would take Rs232 and convert to a fiber that is useable on the slots.

I agree, but the average person will not want to build their own. I guess I feel like people are putting the wagon before the horse.

Even if one has a RS232 to fiber converter, it still needs to be converted in the machine and also forwarded on and back. That is why I was leaning toward a modified fiber board in the first machine using RS232, and then using standard fiber boards from then on down the line. BUT can we even find OEM fiber boards in quantity?

What's the advantages and dis-advantages of using fiber optics?
Personally, I love the modified serial cables devised by our NLG members thus far.
It's not so hard to make and it plugs into my computer nicely without any other crap.  :72-

The main advantage is daisy chaining. While I am no expert on TITO, I think the machines will all need to talk to a 'server' at the same time to be able to transfer credits from one machine to another. The disadvantage is finding the fiber hardware to make it work.

For someone like me who only has a few S+ machines with no TITO, it is easy enough to just use a RS232 and a switch box to flip between machines. I have both of my S+ machines working with the test app and it cost me less than $10 and I started from scratch. But until the test app supports EFT, there is limited use of it unless you have a SP that supports SAS bonusing, and that seems to be mostly confined to 16mhz boards and only a handful of SP chips.

I really can't speak for the S2000 folks since I really have no experience with those machines.

Should be able to make it multidrop it with RS232 now I think about it. Will need to feed tx from pc, to rx of machine one, tx of machine one to rx of machine 2 tx of machine 2 to rx of pc. Same way they do it with fibre. You would need an or gate on the logic side of the rs232 to feed data into the loop.

Here is a very, VERY rough sketch using my freehand mspaint skills. I have some good CAD tools for this, if I have time I will do something a little better.

I don't think it's quite that simple. If you send a command, it needs to go to the RX line of ALL of the machines.  If you send a command to the RX line of machine #1 and take take the TX line from that and send it to the next one, you will also be sending the responce from machine #1 which will be meaningless to machine #2 and can make it produce a bogus reply. That in turn goes to the next machine and so on, which by the time it gets to the last machine will be mostly garbage data. And by combining the TX and RX on the same line as you are doing, any unexpected data from a machine (i.e. door open) can get sent at the same time as a command that you are trying to send from the host, and that will cause that command to be jumbled since they will be mixed with your OR gate.

As I indicated earlier the data sent needs to go to the RX line of ALL machines. This is the easier part because it is like shouting into a room where you want eveyone to hear you.  And then the individual responses need to be sent back on the TX line (of the machines). This is where you will need some logic gates to prevent problems since you can't just tie them all together. This is also not without issues too, since a reply can be coming down the line when another event happens (i.e. machine #3 is sending EFT data when machine #2 opens it's door and now you have a garbage packet back at the host). This is why it looks like the fiber board has some logic in it to prevent data from being sent back to the host if the line is already in use.

Also TTL level signals don't like to be sent long distances (more than a few feet at best). That is why fiber is best, or one would need to convert back to RS232 on each machine. BTW, they use separate TX and RX fiber lines exactly for the reasons mentioned above. I already posted the schematics of the fiber interface and of a modified RS232 to fiber link.

Here is my simplified drawing of the concept. Note how data sent TO the machines is simple. It just send it to all of them at the same time. The returning data however needs to be 'combined' with some OR gates or other logic. The bottom line (IMO) is the TX and RX lines (and data) need to be kept seperate. This is not going to be that simple to just throw together.

To back track a little the manual "S-Plus with Imbedded Bill Acceptor, Field Service Manual" shows
the Fiber-Optic Interface board. Pages 5-163 though 5-171.

Ron (r273)

This is a complete Fiber Optics kit I got a few yrs ago.
The board is ASSY NO: 7543360.
Does anyone have any more info on it?  :99-
It never came with a manual... :97-
Click on photos to enlarge...>>>

The LTC941 near the RJ jacks is described as:

"Designed for RS485 or RS422 Applications. The LTC491 is a low power differential bus/line transceiver designed for multipoint data transmission standard RS485 applications with extended common mode range (12V to –7V). It also meets the requirements of RS422"

But your guess is as as good as mine as to what it's actually used for besides the obvious signal conversion.

Probably converts the fiber optics into telephone jacks to plug directly into the computer.
The fiber cables as I understand come from the S+ or S2000's fiber interfaces into this board
then go out via the ethernet lines to the nearby machines
then out to the hub which go to the back room.

This is where things like this gets complicated and the software and hardware are usually developed at the same time. Custom software often needs custom hardware, and custom hardware will need custom software.

Powerstroke had tons of this stuff brand new in plastic bags and anti-static bags...
I don't know if he still has any...might of thrown it out as no one knew how to hook it up.
It comes with a ton of wiring and connectors.
I'd say let's give him some business and buy some of it from him and fiddle with it?
I just hope I didn't rob any of the connectors and harnesses for something else!  :96-

This stuff plugs into the DPE I posted in Reply#142...
I think it can handle the player tracking stuff as well as progressives.
There's more info on it in this thread >>>


http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=6172.msg55093#new (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=6172.msg55093#new)

Andy you may want to use SQLEXPRESS instead since the masses may not have access to a full version of SQL Server (or use MySQL).  I would be interested in playing around with integrating the DLL with MAME sometime to allow the two to talk to each other.  But it would require changing the COM output to use a different means of communication like Windows messaging.  Send me a PM if you would like to discuss sometime.  I am fairly versed in C# .NET too.

I was able to pick up 5 Rs232 and 2 FO boards with one phone call.
It would be my conjecture that any S+ that had player tracking or Cash Management would have had one of the SAS boards. I suspect there have been millions of these thrown out as the machines are shopped for resale.

Much of this discussion comes back to the basics of the slot communication.
RS232 is normally defined as a 1:1 communications protocol Ie PC to Modem.

In a DCS controls system (for chemical plant, refineries, manufacturing etc) Rs422 or Rs485 is used because its designed to be multi-dropped.
With these protcols - Commands are sent out from the host controller. Ie Valve 01 OPEN, or Valve 02 CLOSE.
The standard is that there is no event driven activity.    Ie someone comes along and manually opens Valve 02.
The valve would not proactively report its activity.

The controller would send a poll command and say Valve 01 Please report your open/close status.... (or the electronic version there of). It would then wait for the response and then poll the next valve.

In more advanced devices that perhaps have a bunch of states rather than open/close there could be a event flag. This would allow the controller to poll all the devices looking for the event flag and then more deeply query the device that has the flag.

In our case if someone put in ticket to a bill validator - the validator doesn't start screaming 400 credits !! over here over here.
It waits until the device is polled.

Knowing how the protocol is supposed to behave.....I think I would side with Andy that if we parallel our RX's to all machines - the machine will only listen to SASs commands destinted for the machine  01 (or 02 or 03) so sending out a command will not trigger multiple machines and only one machine will be sending back a TX when it is asked to report. So multiple Tx's back should not happen.

Does not matter what data the machines see, they only respond to messages with there poll address and ignore everything else. The picture I supplied there is EXACTLY how the fibre optic boards work at the most simple level. That is how multidropped protocols work. Every single SAS message has the poll address as the first byte. The only way you would get corrupt comms is if you have 2 machines with the same poll address on the loop.


I have all the Microsoft tools, pay thousands each year for them! IT makes my job easier to use the tools I have. MS SQL Server express edition is free. Maybe you and I are talking about the same thing?

To make the dll  use windows messaging would either mean someone has to wrap the dll up in a com interface, or I have to change it so its a com object! At this stage, I wont be doing it. I simply dont have the time. IF you are good with c#, then you could write a c# wrapper for it.

But that's not how he has it wired up. He is mixing the TX and RX on the same line. It's never going to work. But have at it.  :96-

Yup I'm referering to MS SQL Server Express.  I haven't fully reviewed your code but I don't think a wrapper is possible since I would need to see the data packets sent and resend as messages.  Right now I believe your DLL hides this from use.  But I'm not positive what you have.

My assumption would be that based on your statement the value of the ticket only gets transmitted - not encoded on the ticket.  When the ticket gets redeemed the ID gets looked up in the database.

The whole idea here is that every machine receives what you transmit out of the PC. Note that what gets transmitted out of the pc, comes back in also. If VGM cant see every transmitted packet, how you you expect it to work?

Each VGM receives every message. When it receives a message that matches its poll address, it responds and puts its data onto the loop, Every machine on the loop will also see this data (and in fact this is one key aspect of the operation of SAS) but it just ignores it, because its not intended for the VGM.

This is the way Fibre Optic loops work, daisy chaining each output to the next input.



Not quite.
When you print a ticket, the VGM sends an excpetion, and once again you poll for the printed ticket data. This response contains the validation code, and the amount. This obviously gets stored away for future validation.

When a ticket is put into a VGM, you have to query for the data. The only data you get back is the validation code (ie the number on the barcode). The amount at this point is unknown. Thanks to a good person on this forum I was able to get some raw data packets to see what happens. Even though the message repsonse has a field for the amount, its always returned with a 0.

 :99-

What colors get hooked up to the S2000 interface?   I tried red green and black with no luck  :37-

The fiber does NOT work that way. Look at the schematics I posted (or look in the manual). There is a separate TX and RX fiber line. The data is not mixed on the same line. They built it that way for a reason.

Of course people told me you needed current loops adapters etc. to make a RS232 interface work, but yet my MAX232 only interface works just fine.  :96-

I may not be a software guru, but I have been in electronics for many decades. It's just not as easy as you may think to daisy chain this.  I'm not trying to talk anyone out of  anything, but when I see concepts that I know won't work based on experience, I will usually say something.  :210-  

Dude, I am not going to argue with you, I have been working with gaming for about 15 years now, doing hardware and software.

But since you insist on questioning everything I do, go take a look at your schematics for the fibre boards again that you posted in post 421.

There fibre connectors used for the loop are F03 and F04. Data is received by F04, gets fed into and or gate, and then into a FO Driver and then out of F03. The FO driver also drives the games receive port. The transmit from the game gets fed into the or gate, and subsequently onto the loop. This is the way it works. In fact in the current state I am working in, it works this way in 4 casinos and about 3000 clubs.


Edit. My apologies, i just look at one of the boards and it uses F01 as the input, so uses the or gate in the 75451

I have atatched a cct diagram with some lines of how the FO stuff works. Also attached is an rs232 to FO converter that I designed. It can be used as an FO repeater or interface, and has the option to loop input to output (or reflect as we call it).

Yes, two inputs and two outputs. Seperate RX and TX lines.

I'm not trying to get into an argument about any of this. I'm just trying to help get it working. That is why I posted the modified fiber board concept to allow RS232 as one of the inputs and outputs. The rest of the machines could just use the fiber board as is (if they can be found). If they can't be found then some other solution needs to be come up with. I don't need to daisy chain my units, so if people want me to keep my ideas to myself, no problem.  :96-

Wrong again. Look at the diagram..

 :25-  There it is right in black and white. But whatever. Good luck.  :88-

Look at my drawing numnuts, with the lovely coloured lines showing the direction of the comms. Like i said before, being doing it for fifteen years now, plus backing up as instrument fitter before I went to uni. But seems you know it all. Good luck with it. I guess every casino, club and pub I have ever worked in that use fibre has it wrong.

Deadset, its people like you that really put people off trying to do this stuff.

People who feel the need to resort to name calling usually can't support their augment based on facts. :60-


I've supplied quite a few schematics of WORKING interfaces. Just how it that putting people off?  :103-

But in any case I'm done here. Obviously you don't like/want people sharing their knowlege or experience.

AndyP
S2000 Get 01: displayed in the log area.
S+ only see door open and closed, get ROM signature after a while
I think something is dropping parts of the data and causing things not work.

Note: For those testing the App on a S+ some of the functions he has programmed the S+ will not respond to them, and may cause the communications to stop.
Not sure where the issue lies (S+ not knowing what the commands are or how to respond to them.

I am using a 16Mhz board, I guess I could dig out the only working 10Mhz board I have and see what it does with 1271

01 is probably a chirp from the EGM. I will get around to handling these properly eventually, but its low on my list at the moment. This means the EGM is not receiving any data.


Poppo, read the schematic again, and explain to me what the or gates are for.

Better yet, tell us why there are two inputs and two outputs that are different from each other?  If everything could be put on one line, then why not just have one input and one output?

But here is a clue. U1 is a 7408 AND gate despite the odd incorrect OR gate symbol used in the schematic. It is correctly depicted in the corner where it shows the unused gates (and the parts list). Thus it is used to block/steer the signals and not combine them like an OR would.

In any case, like I said, I will just stay out of this thread since the bickering is counter productive.

Yes, it is, and we ALL have the same common goal here -- to get this project to work for everyone.  Let's not lose sight of that, please.  This is the closest opportunity we've had as a home user community to create a working home-based TITO system -- something that just a month ago everyone here thought would always be out of reach.  My eyes are still on that prize.  :89-

for a start, I have never seen f04 fitted. Therefore there is only one input, and 2 outputs. I have never seen f03 used either for that matter, and I assume is used for jackpot signs or ancillary devices. F01 and F02 are always stacked and they are used for comms.

The drawing is not incorrectly labeled. Its depicted as negative logic. An or gate with active low inputs, and active low output is the same as an AND gate.

 >:D.

Folks, this thread is starting to get lost. 30+ pages now. I think its time to break it down a bit and perhaps retire this thread.

So I suggest some new threads, ie interfaces for particular machines in a seperate thread. questions and help on software etc. I am starting to get lost in this thread at the moment. I am not familiar with this forum software, so if you do post in a seperate thread and you want me to repsond then a PM or an email would be helpful.

I just created a gmail address for this particluar topic, slotmon is the username with the normal gmail.com stuff on the end (BTW if anyone makes that email address complete on the internet anywhere I will send you a million spams in return :P ). As I get used to the forum you will find that there is no need to pm/email.

For those who have had commercial enquiries please email that slotmon address and I will foward on my company details.

And for those impatient ones. I do this for a living, so please be patient. I have to manage the paid work, and we have our ups and downs. The last few weeks have been very quiet, hence the reason for the amount of effort gone into the DLL. It may not look like much, but trust me there is a lot of code behind it. I have just won a few more small contracts that will have me tied up for the next 3-4 weeks, so you wont see a lot of activity on the DLL or test app until I am done.

Done  :131- :131- :131-  :79- :79- :79-  see link http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?board=105.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?board=105.0)

Joeylc
:admin-

Finally...The TestApp "Form1" works using an S+ SAS Interface board and a PC.
Why? Basically because I'm using the SP1213 chip installed onto a 10MHz MPU.
I'm also using an USB to Serial adapter with both the TestApp and PC set to COM 3...>>>

What is different now? Just the SP or the USB adapter? I know some of the older SP chips don't support all of the messages. Like I don't get the 'game started'/'game ended' messages with SP1048 and below (not sure what number they start showing up with), but I do get 'door open'/'door closed' and a few others.

Apparently, the only thing I changed was the SP1213 chip.
Adapter is still the "Cable-To-Go" USB to Serial adapter...
The SS chip I didn't touch, but I know it's an Cherry Bars Type 0 game...horrible % chip in it.
I'm getting some different messages now...
at least it's not the stupid [01:]   lol
Actually the ROM Signature came up about 4 or 5 minutes later...lol
Good thing I wasn't in a big rush to find out what it was!  :96-
The port does like to freeze or lock up and I have to turn off the TestApp
and turn it back on to get some input data...>>>


http://www.youtube.com/v/OfY1NQYu018?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US (http://www.youtube.com/v/OfY1NQYu018?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US)

Wasn't this thread  locked?

I still would like to see fiber implemented. I think I have found a very low cost fiber solution. It is a USB to fiber board.
They give customizable drivers with it and it seems that you can build it yourself if you like rather than purchase one complete which is $85
If this will work for us and enough people are interested, maybe we could get a group buy going.
E~

Here is the link to the board:

http://www.controlanything.com/Relay/Device/USBFOI (http://www.controlanything.com/Relay/Device/USBFOI)

Cool Find.