New Life Games Tech Forums

I just got a used machine for a real low price because it wasnt working. I dont know much at all about slots since im just getting into them. The previous owner said he had no idea what was wrong with it, other than it didnt work.
When I plug it in and turn it on the flourescent lights come on and it sounds like the speaker makes a click sound, but that about it. No wheels spin or other sounds. I can plug something into the front of the power supply box in the "extra" plug and that item works.
Any suggestions on what to check  first ?

the machine has a manufacture date of 10/96, and the board does not have a volume control wheel like my older machine if any of that makes a difference. I also did check the board to make sure everything is plugged in and from the best I can tell all is.

thanks in advance.

 :211-

sorry about that, forgot to post them.

also, what is this white box type thing on the inside ? It is some sort of timer relay that is plugged into wires where the hopper should go. It had no hopper in the machine, just this thing in its place. I want to unplug it and put a hopper back in.
If it help to diagnose it the green light for the coincomparitor doesnt come oneither.

It's an S+.
Did you check the fuses? On right lower side below the bill acceptor cash can. You have to remove coin tray.
Ford

yes sir, i did pull and check the fuses first and they were all good.

Are there any codes in front display?

Are there any #'s in the win paid-credits- or any where?

Do you know how to pull the main board.
If you pull it there is a battery on there. Check & see what volts you have.

nothing shows up on any of the front displays.
let me check the battery real quick

To remove main board.
MAKE SURE GAME IS TURNED OFF.
It's in rear behind hopper.
Lift up on black knob about 1 or 2 inches & remove board.

if im reading the meter right( new to them also) it is showing 3.67 v

That's good. My knowledge on S+ is limited. Maybe someone else will chime in.
Are you sure the fuses are good?

thank you for the help, i do appreciate it.

any clues as to what the white box timer type relay is for ?

Where is it located?

No idea what that white box is -- it's some kind of aftermarket add-in, however, and will not be needed if you intend to put a hopper back in and have this function like a stock machine.

As Ford mentioned, you have an IGT S+ machine -- it's a later model with an imbedded dollar bill validator.  It's a pretty common machine, and parts are generally available at a good price.

The biggest suspect to me right now is the wire harness that goes from the power supply to the motherboard (it's a fairly common issue, and will cause the machine to appear dead).  Look at what I circled from one of your pictures -- that's a sure sign that there may be a problem in the connector.  With the power unplugged you could try unplugging and re-plugging that harness multiple times to try and scrape some of the oxidation off of the contact so it makes a better contact with the motherboard.

Before you apply power, please take a shop vac to the inside of the machine to get up as much of that loose rust as you can, and remove any loose coins laying around inside the machine (I saw at least one in one of your pictures).  Stray metal parts like coins, nuts, bolts, etc. will only cause problems if they short out boards inside the machine.

Then, once you've done that, try plugging the machine back in and see if you have anything on the display(s) at that point.  Also, when the machine is on, check to see if the reels are "stiff" (that is, if they don't spin freely like they do when the machine is off).

Is it the white button next to on - off switch?  The display has to work before you use that. That's for setting up & checking things.

You need to replace the harness between the power supply and mother board. It is to the right of the time delay relay in the picture .. see the burn mark?

My WAG is it is meant to emulate a hopper. When AC is applied, it may time delay pulse the contacts emulating coins dropping.

I saw the burn mark when I blew up the pictures, I will try cleaning and/or changing it.

the white box is in the last picture sitting where the hopper goes.

thanks everyone. I will keep you posted.

Agreeed with that -- that would have been my guess, too, but I've never seen one hooked up to an S+.

Ok, I took all the boards out of the bottom of the machine and cleaned it all real well. Cleaned out a lot of the rust and mice droppings......as well as cleaned the contacts on the power supply. It worked, the machine came back on, the wheels jumped just a little, but did not spin. Now in the winners paid window it changes from 1 to 3100.

Open and close door.

http://www.newlifegames.net/igterrors/ (http://www.newlifegames.net/igterrors/)

tried to open and close the door and that didnt work.  It flashes from 3100 to 1, then back. The candle above, the lower half flashes fast and the top flashes slow from the best I can tell.
Any other suggestions ?

I'd like to ask you a question then...

Is the number changing in the "Coins Played" on the display when you open/close the door?

Remember, the more you can tell/show us - the more we can help you!


ADD>>> You said the reels "jumped a little"...do they remain "stiff-legged" as it is powered on?
There should be some resistance if you were to try to manually turn the a reel by your fingertips.

yes, the wheels stay stiff with resistance when powered on.
when winner payed says 3100 coins played is blank, when winners payed says 1 coins played shows 0. Does not seem to change if door is open or closed.

whith door closed if I turn the reset key one time on the outside its changes in the display to winner paid 01 and coins played to 1, with the spin wheels button lighted up.

then if i keep turning the reset key the display changes with every turn until finally getting back to the original 3100/1    0/1.

hope that helps, let me know what else you might need.

thanks....

Sounds like yout door optics may be bad.

is there any way to check and or clean them without replacing them first ? Or I guess I could always switch them with one of my other working machines.

That would be the easiest thing.

let me try that and I will post back

ok, changed the door optics with a working machine and there was no change at all. Put the know good ones in the broken machine and it did nothing different. Put the ones from the broken machine in the working machine and it worked fine. So I think I can eleminate the optics themself as being bad.

Any other suggestions ?

Might try disconnecting that relay thing. But make a note of what is connected to what. If it is emulating a hopper, it may be stuck in the 'coin out' position.

It would help to know how it is wired.

I can try to take a better picture if neccessary, but one of the working machines I have has the exact same setup. (bought them at the same time from the same person) He knew nothing at all about them.

What about doing a ram clear or whatever its called ? (im very new to this)

or maybe just disconnecting the plug that powers the hopper, and the one from the motherboard ? Would that work, rather than unplugging all the wires on the "white box timer/relay" ?

Still thinking there may be a problem with the door optics. Are you sure you are latching the door all of the way?  If you press the self test button a few times to get to another display, and then close the door, does display go back to the 3100 error?

Run a set chip through it.

Yes, it will always go back to the 3100.
As far as I can tell its closed all the way. The latch goes all the way down.

A set chip, or a ram clear chip ?

Using a clear chip or a set chip will not clear the [3100] error code for long...
The code will "magically" appear as soon as you close the door and get your first "win".
The problem lies with that "Hopper Emulator"...or "the little white box".

The ONLY thing you can to do bypass the error is to set your hopper limits
to zero in the settings and use the reset key to wipe it off.

The best solution would be to buy a used hopper female plug and
install it into the rectangular hole in the hopper bracket.
Also, buy an S+ hopper and ask the seller for a harness for the power supply...

Total cost? Probably not more than $100 or so...give John a call!>>>

http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=1284 (http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=1284)

http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=891 (http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=891)

To test to see if this is the problem, can I set the hopper limit to zero ? At least that way I will know for sure this is the problem before I actually buy the hopper.

If so, is there any instructions on how to to do this ? I looked through the manual and it sort of explains it.

It would help to know what SP chip you have. Some SP chips use the dip switches and some don't. Also some SP chips have more limit options than others.

sp chip is 1145

ss chip is 4706  (which I dont see listed in the bible for the double red, white, and blue) if it matters

SS4706 is correct. Maybe you looked at the 3 coin in the bible instead of 2 coin.

http://www.newlifegames.net/igtbible/IGT%202CM/Game%20Library%20-%20S-Plus%20-%20Double%20Red,%20White%20&%20Blue%20(2%20Coin%20Multiplier).htm (http://www.newlifegames.net/igtbible/IGT%202CM/Game%20Library%20-%20S-Plus%20-%20Double%20Red,%20White%20&%20Blue%20(2%20Coin%20Multiplier).htm)

Attached is the SP1145 PSR . The dip switches are not used. Make sure there are no credits on the machine before trying to change the hopper limits.

Something else to try if possible, it to swap that relay assembly with the one you said is working in case the relay is bad.

thanks ill try that.
you were right about looking in the 3 coin section.....

I was looking at the psr, well atleast I was trying to figure it out.

Even if you set the hopper limits to zero, you may still get that [3100] error code -
because of that little white box gizmo.
That gizmo may have never really worked for all I know
and it may be the main source of the error code the MPU is shouting out.

Seriously, I'd be ripping that thing outta there and installing the correct machine components.

To set the hopper limits, open the door, turn on the power.
Press the little white test button 12 times until you see a <7> in the "Coins Played" window.
This is "Page" 7 - which is the hopper limits settings.

The Winner Paid" window may be displaying a [1000] with the last zero flashing.
Now, using the "Spin" button change the flashing number.
The reset key moves the "cursor" or switches which digit you want to change.
Use the "Spin" button to change the digit shown.

In your case - make them all zeros.
Close  the door and your hopper limit is now saved to pay out no coins.

Play until you get a win and when you do - the machine's candle will flash and the game will "lock" up.
Meaning all the deck buttons will be disabled.
That when you wipe out the win with the reset key in order to continue play.

"Page" <7> 2 and <7> 3 are the Jackpot limits and Credits limits.
Fool around with these until you get something you like.
Learn how to alter your settings utilizing the PSR sheet you have.
Once you master the S+ menus system, you can go and set your mom's flashing VCR clock... :72-

im planning on it, just trying to see if I can get it working to see what all I need to get.

on the psr at the bottom of the first page it mentions error code 3100

I'm really curious as to how it's hooked up. In theory I can see AC being applied to the relay when the hopper would normally turn on, and then the time delay relay may be set in 'pulsed' mode and the contacts might be connected to the coin out optics wiring. This would make the unit simulate coins dropping.

Yes, but it says "if these conditions occur while the machine is in the handpay condition."

So it will only display that IF there was an extra coin in/out tilt.

Do you know the origin of this machine?
Maybe the guy that sold it made the gizmo?
I'd like to pick his brains on it really.

Can you give us a detailed drawing of all the wires and where they are coming and going to?
Maybe we can see how this thing works? - if it ever did?
I'll be honest and say it looks like a failed hack job really.

He did say the one in his other machine works.

Oh! Then that could be an awesome little gizmo!
It should work with the door open and doing a "hopper test" of 10 coins right?

It should. I noticed the one picture it had a dial on the top of it. Usually that is the delay. Maybe it's set wrong and is pulsing too fast .

Thinking about it, it should no be that difficult to do. As I mentioned, an AC relay would turn on when the hopper motor is turned on. If the contacts can be set to pulse at a certain rate, they could be connected to the coin out optics. As soon as the machine senses enough coins out, it would kill the voltage to the relay (just like it does for the hopper). But if the relay is pulsing too fast, it may generate an extra coin out before power is removed.

they guy I got them from knew nothing about the machines, said he never even opened them or plugged them in. I bought a total of three machines from him, two igt s+, and one sigma. The two igt's both have the same little white box hooked up instead of the hopper. One works just fine.  The other one is the problem that we are working on. I will try to get some closer pictures, and try to do a drawing of the wires.

Agree with Poppo that it may be a door closed issue. If your machine is operating correctly the error should clear on a door close. If the device is faulty the error should only re appear after a few seconds.
Apart from the optics there are also micro switches in the BV and lower machine door that are wired in series with the optic and should all be closed in order for machine to detect a door closed.

Ian

On that one, what happens when you cash out credits? Does it count them down or go into hand pay mode?

There are times that when the 3100 error code appears it locks up the machine. No matter how many times you open and close the door it will stay there. If you run the set chip in it you will know for sure that the door optics are working.

uuuggghhhh.......this machine !!!!

Ok, I tried to change the hopper setting like posted above. got the  1000   1     7, but the last zero on the 1000 wasnt flashing. I tried to turn the reset keyto move through it and it wouldnt do anything.
So, I figured what the heck and did the ram clear chip. turned it on and got the 61 code,  pushed the white reset button and got the 61  1, then tried tot turn the key withthe door closed and it wouldnt do anything. So now it seems like im stuck with 61  1.

now what ?

For the first part, there may have been credits on the machine which would have prevented changing the settings.


Classic sign that the door optics are not working. Since you already swapped them, check the wiring carefully. Check for bent pins on all plugs, including the MPU.  You may also want to take the reel glass off so you can look to see if the optics are lining up with the latch down.

dont think there were any credits, but cant say for sure.

Ill try that. will even switch the optics again witht he known working ones.

Not sure if you would be able to know if there was a tilt error showing.

If the ram clear was done it will clear credits.

If the door optics are good and aligned correct ..  See TZtech's post.

There is probably an open switch on DBV cash box door or belly door. I have see a couple of times that the third wire for the optics on the cabinet side .. usually wrapped up in the back right corner of the reel tray ..  with an open end may need to be fastened to ground.

I agree, the optics or the wiring for them are very suspect at this point, or as Ken suggested a cash can switch or wiring.

True, but he had first tried changing the limits before doing the clear. So there may have been some on there prior to that.

I agree with Poppo...
reefpatrol got to Page <7> via the test button but couldn't change
the last digit because it wasn't flashing.

Which brings us to this possibility -
If one isn't allowed to make changes then that signifies that
there are credits in the machine, right?

This would be the time to use a Clear chip.
Wipe out the credits and get the machine going.
Play to a winning combination and see if the hopper emulator
will work or set off the [3100] error code...

If so, then with the credits now erased from the RAM -
he should be able to get back to Page <7> and set the Hopper Limits
to zero to get the machine playable..
albeit utilizing the reset key every time he wants to wipe out the credits.


I still have a question however, I can't remember if reefpatrol said that
his "Coins Played" window display changes when he closes the door or not?
Seems like what knagl said...reset key isn't working when the door is closed
to boot the MPU while in [61-1].

Which is what he did, but now he can't get rid of the 61_1 which looks like a door close issue. That may also be why the original 3100 would not clear. He did swap the optics with know good ones, but that doesn't mean they are aligned or the wiring is good. And as others have noted there may be another switch somewhere that is not closed.

yep...I'd be going through all the sensor switch wiring -
making sure there's continuity in all of them!
Belly door wires wired together, cash can door switch wires wired together, etc etc.
Also, taking a video camera to the emitter door optic lamp -
to see if there's anything actually coming outta there!

If he swapped both emitter and receiver optics already...there may be a break some where.

With out going back and reading all of the posts to find out what SP he has .. the dip switch settings will lock the 7 settings and no digits will blink with lower SP numbers.

I took the reel glass off so I could see the optics. Put optics in from a known working machine. I still cant get rid of the 61_1. When I turn the key it does nothing.
There is a wire on the inside of the cash box door that the end it wrapped in electrical tape. Is that another optic of some sorts ? I dont actually see any type of "switch" in the cash box.

SP1145. No dip switches are used.

Wire or wires? If two, they should be shorted together under that tape.

oh yeah? I never knew that Ohio!
Thanks for the info!  :3-
You learn something new everyday!

I think he has the SP1145 though?


uh...the wires tied together in the cash door were the cash door switch at one time.
Take off the tape and see if they are indeed twisted together...
they come apart sometimes if they're not soldered or wire nutted.
Is there a couple of wires going to your belly door?

Is there an echo in here?  :96-

You KEEP posting while I'm typing Poppo!!!    :208-

ADD>>> well at least we're pretty on the same page in
troubleshooting reefpatrol's Hurricane Katrina disaster project.
I wonder what that motherboard looked like?
A pile of rust?
If this thing actually fires up... and stays on for more than 24 hours
without anything blowing up...I'll be surprised! lol

To test the optics in the machine ... press the self test switch (3 times?) until 10  1 appears  ... turn the jackpot reset key until 13   x appears. Close the door and if 0 and 1 alternate blinks then the door optics are good.

Naw...That's too easy.... :72-


(great suggestion K....lol )

sorry yes there are two wires, pulled the tape off and they are twisted together.

(Ohio gaming) I cant test the optics now, since I cant get past the 61_1.

yes its a sp1145.

suprisingly, the motherboard was pretty clean

also if i turn the machine off then on i get the 61. I can shut the door and turn the reset key (before i push the white switch to get 61_1) and it will go through a bunch of different numbers with each turn before finally getting back to the 61.

if that means anything ??

Disconnect the wires from the key switch and run some jumper wires for the switch out the bottom of the machine to eliminate the switch.

Run them out where the coin tray would be.

Sounds like he went into "Accounting Mode" then back to [61]

The door has to be open, hit the test button once...the number will display [61-1],
THEN close the door and turn the reset key once to boot the machine.

Can you even get into the self test if you are stuck at 61_1?

If turning the reset key is changing things (i.e. accounting mode), then the reset switch has to be good.

I'm pretty sure he did it the right way, but is just trying different things now.

I was thinking maybe the reset key was bad, but it worked each time in what you guys called accounting mode

If you have a set chip, you could pop that MPU in the other good machine to see if it will clear in that one. It will still get a 61 again when you put it back in this one, but at least you can determine if the MPU is working or not. The downside is you 'might' need the set chip when you put the good MPU back in the good machine. If it clears and works in the other one, then you know it has to be a wiring/optics issue of some sort.

Make sure the power switch is off when inserting/swapping out boards okay?
Don't want you burning out possible good MPU's!!!

MPU ?         Is that the motherboard?

If so I was thinking about doing that just to start eliminating stuff, kind of as a last resort.....

MPU is the upright main board with the big black knob while the motherboard is the one on the floor.
Never, EVER have the power turned on when removing or installing these boards.

Put the known good MPU into the problem machine to see if you can get past the [61-1] error code.
Don't mess with any dip switches or chips.
Install the known good MPU into the problem machine AS IS!
If you can able to boot the machine with the door closed and turning the reset key once ,
then the problem is with the old MPU board - this would mean
that your optics and various switches/ jumped wires are fine.

The MPU is the board in the back with the black knob. The motherboard is the board the MPU plugs into (which could also have issues).

IMO, at this point, it can't hurt. You could be running on a wild goose chase if the MPU is bad.


<edit> Bunker is learning to type faster.  :96-

yeah...but I type a lot more Sh** than you do !!!!!  :208-

That would work, but I personally would do it the other way around. Since he has a known good machine, putting the suspect MPU in it would be a quick check to see if the MPU is good. The troubled machine 'could' have a both a bad MPU and other issues too.

Either way it's swapped crosses out some blanks in trouble-shooting...
Eventually we'll whittle down the problems and fill in the blanks and his machine will be up and running.
Remember reefpatrol,.... "The more you tell/show us - the more we can help ya!"

Keep spitting out details, details, details...and you'll be playing your machine in no time!

I'm a day late and a dollar short .. I should know better but wasn't thinking.

EDIT .. went back and read some of the posts again.
I haven't seen anywhere that the reset key changed any settings (its late and could have missed a post) and there is a couple of posts that he mentions the key didn't change anything.
Those settings he got there by pressing the self test switch and I didn't see a post that he went into an area where the key would of have been used to change a setting and worked.

Like both of you have mentioned about the boards .. those are always a possibliity.

Ohio,
reefpatrol did say that the "Coins In" changed to an [01] when turning
the reset key with the door closed....
plus he gets the "spin" button lit up...that means he can view
the "Accounting Mode"...but that's it really...
The door optics are not sensing each other - therefore he
has no change in the "Coins In" window - even after swapping with known good door optics....>>>

Okay .. it's not the switch.

Just to make sure, put the nonworking machine MPU in the working machine, which should give me a 61 code, push white button and should change to 61_1, then reset key should clear it. If the MPU is good ?

It won't matter if they are different games, and it won't mess up the working machine ?
Afterwards I should be able to put the working machine back together and it will work fine.

After you close the door, and turn the reset key, it should clear. You should then be able to play the game. Of course the reel strips won't match and so it won't pay out correctly, but you just want to see if everything clears and the game actually starts up and plays.


The only thing it might mess up on the working machine is you 'may' have to re-enable the BV (if you even have one). Other than that' it should not hurt anything. When you put the good MPU back in the good machine, you will get some errors on that too and have to clear them. The reason for all of this, in case you didn't know, is there is a EEPROM on the motherboard that stores data. When the machine powers up, it compares that data to what is on the CMOS chip on the MPU. If they don't match, you get errors that have to be cleared.  

You can also do like Bunker said and put the good MPU in the trouble machine. If it clears, then you know you have a bad MPU. If it doesn't clear, then you know there is something else wrong (i.e. wiring or optics). However, you still will not know if the other MPU is good or not.

One of the reasons I prefer not do it that way is if there was something shorted out on the bad machine (and especially becuase you may have a screwed up hopper emulator), then it 'could' damage your good MPU. Probably not likely, but still possible.

ok, put the BAD MPU in the good working machine, got a 61, pushed white button to get a 61_1, shut the door and tried the key...nothing...so that means the MPU is no good (right).?

now i'm scared to put the good mpu in the bad maching to see if it works, but I guess i'll have to just to verify that is all thats wrong with the bad machine (right) ?

You might try putting the 'bad' MPU back in the suspect machine and running a clear one more time. Then try it again.

Also put the good MPU back in the good machine and make sure eveything clears.

I would still hold off on putting the good MPU in the bad machine until you do the above.

Yes...Now you know the questionable MPU is bad.

Now in order to the check the wiring of the problem machine with the known good MPU,
you need to do a few things 1st so you do NOT screw up the good MPU.
The motherboard has to be checked.
I'm almost certain that there is corrosion underneath that motherboard in the problem machine.
It's the circuit board that's on the floor in which you slide the MPU into.

With the power off, take out the MPU.
Pull out the two black Molex connectors on the back of the motherboard that are against the cabinet's wall.
There are hard to remove sometimes.
You have to push on the tab that locks them to the motherboard header connectors
and wiggle the female harness out of the socket.
Once you have the two black harness connectors out, twist them back
and stick them behind themselves onto the wall so they're out of the way.

The motherboard has 3 screws holding it down to the floor.
However, the middle screw has a sleeve/guide that guides the MPU onto the motherboard
so the header connector pins line up.
Remove all three and place aside.

Now use a long thin screw driver and work the motherboard off of it's locking floor tabs.
The front tabs are easy enough to pop the motherboard off back the ones nearest to the wall
are kinda hard to get the motherboard to pop off off them - that's where the long screwdriver comes handy
as leverage to get underneath the board to kind of pop the MB off.

When you get the MB out of there, take a very good inspection of all the soldered components and
post a good high resolution photograph of both sides for us to inspect.
We can let yo know if the MB in the problem machine is good enough to use for the known good MPU or not.

Also, there should be a white padded plastic pad underneath the motherboard...
Check it carefully for any black burn marks to see if they correspond with possible defective motherboard IC components. >>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmAXCI-pu7U

I put the good MPU back in the good machine and it worked with no problems or codes, even kept all my credits. Also played it until I got a win just to make sure.

I will pull the motherboard back out(had it out when I cleaned the machine real good) and take a picture.

here is a few pictures.

two more pictures showing the only possible spots I could see. The two lower tan things have some of the coating gone. Also corresponds with the two darker burn type spots on the white pad. Hopefully comes out clear enough to see.

Time for a new motherboard I'm afraid.
That was a Hurricane Katrina victim.... :25-
I cannot imagine what it looks like underneath it! WOW!  :5-
The resistors are exploded and I doubt the traces are any good.  :60-
I strongly advise you NOT to install the known good MPU into that motherboard until you get a new one!!!!  :60- :60- :60-

Please pull the main power plug out of the wall socket.
That machine is fire prone even though there are many safety metal walls.

You going to have to check the power supply box too.
Remove one large screw on the left side of the box will allow you to take off the cover to look inside.
Make sure there is NO POWER going into that power supply box before removing the screw.
Click on any photo to enlarge....>>>

underside of board looks good though.

anyone have a cheap motherboard and MPU they want to get rid of ?

All that was cause from the machine being used as a mouse cage. Had about an inch of mice droppings in the inside. Not really rust, just watered downd(well, pee) soaked poop.........

The bottom traces do look good...water likes to sit on top of things and rust it to hell really...not so much underneath.
I'm surprised there wasn't that much rust under there.
You may be able to salvage that board with a few resistors and trace repair...especially on top of the board.
However, it's a lot easier for many just to go out and get a replacement motherboard.
They're not expensive.
Place an ad for an S+ motherboard in the Classifieds Section of NLG
and I'm pretty sure someone will have one for ya!  :89-


How are the long white connector pins coming out of the questionable MPU?   Okay?
Inspect them closely... :209- make sure none are bent or folded back against the wall of the connectors.
If so, I'd try it in the known good machine and see if you can clear any error codes like you did with the good MPU!
That would prove your questionable MPU is okay!

Also, try your door optics from the bad cabinet to the good cabinet to rule out the door optics being bad.
You have a bit of work to do before you get this puppy going right again but I will be very proud of you wen you do!  :72-
It's all a matter of swapping checking, swapping and checking... :71-

By the way....this is what the motherboard resistors ( "the 4 tan things"..... :97-) should look like...lol

R1=Brown/Blue/Brown/Gold
R2=Brown/Blue/Brown/Gold
R3=Orange/White/Gold/Gold
R4=Brown/Blue/Brown/Gold

Can any guess the values of these resistors offhand?  :79-
Winner gets a free chicken dinner...!

These I'm sure, can be picked up at your local radio schnack store in your hometown.
However, there's a lot of corrosion elsewhere on that board and I don't know if it will work even after replacing these resistors.
You're talking a lot of continuity checking and probing with a multimeter to get this motherboard to ever work right again...
The traces on top may be corroded underneath the green covering they put on top of the traces.
This alone would cause certain suspect traces to be more resistant and require more power to get through the lines.
That in turn causes extra heat and more traces will expire.
I'd be, for sure, be looking around for another motherboard....

Click on photo  to enlarge...>>>

R1,R2,R4 are 180 ohm
R3 is 3.9 ohm

On the bad MPU, I would pull the CMOS chip, then plug it back in and see if it clears.

You want Bar-B-Q sauce with that?    :96-

I know someone on eBay selling toppers that you might be interested in.   :200- :72- :97-

(It's an inside joke -- feel free to ignore this post.)

MPU connector pins look good, and I dont see any bad spots on the MPU board like the ones on the mother board. Actually the MPU board looks really clean. I think since it was standing upright, and behind the cover the little squaky critters couldnt get to it to mark thier territory. However I could not get it to clear any codes when it was put in the working machine.

As I noted, try pulling the CMOS chip out of the bad MPU and then put it back in and try it again (in the good machine). It can't hurt. Part of the 61 thing is the data gets copied back from the EEPROM to the CMOS (which is battery backed up). It may just be 'glitched' or got corrupt if the EEPROM on your corroded motherboard is bad. Pulling it out will make it lose it's memory which is fine. The clear chip actually does the same thing, only it also erases the EEPROM.

So Close ... R1,R2,R4 are 160 Ohm

And as for the Motherboard ... I agree that it is shot.  Those connector Pins are totally rusted.  Time for a replacement.

Uh oh!...Poppo! I have to take that Bar-B-Q chicken away from you....  :200- :114-

Ummm... not so fast. :96-

 :208- :97- :72-


SO!!!!!!!! The plot thickens here! lololololol

Who should get the chicken dinner?!?!
Did IGT install the WRONG resistors? Hmmmmmm..........

No. See my nija edit (second picture).

Also the grey band (8) does look light blue on mine. Probably due to age.

okay then...fair enough!
I have brown/blue/brown/gold....that equals 160 Ohms.
The colors on the resistors need to be brown/gray/brown/gold to be 180 Ohms.
So what is going on here?

Your photo is too small for me to see the colors.
What colors are your resistors on your board Poppo?
His board has brown/gray/brown/gold which equals 180 Ohms...crazy huh?
MY board may have the wrong ones?
Thanks!


(I know this thread is off a bit but I promise we will get back on track pronto! Thanks!)

Here ya go. They do look a bit blue without the flash, as I posted above.
Click for a supersize picture.

Interesting...I can't re-check mine until Monday morning but I could swear it's a light shade of blue... :5- :186-
Thanks for the close-up shots of your resistors Poppo!  :3-  :89-
Have a super weekend!

Poppo is correct.  Looking at your picture, you do have Brown Gray Brown (180 Ohms) resistors.  I can see how they do look light blue in the picture though.

Nerds!   :186-

 :96-

What's worse?    Color-blind nerds!  :208- :97-

I believe that is what he already did.


However, I would not be so quick to write off the MPU as being bad. With the amount of damage on the motherboard, I'm not so sure the clear worked properly, and may have corrupted the CMOS data. That's why I suggested he pull the CMOS so that it loses it's memory and he try it again in the good machine.

Getting ready to try that shortly, will let you know.

I pulled the CMOS chip from the bad MPU board for a few minutes. Then put it back in. Then I put the bad MPU board in the good machine and it still does the same thing. It shows a 61, then I push the white button to get a 61_1. Shut the door then I turn the key, even tried holding the key and the 61_1 won't go away.

Then I took out bad board and put back in the original good board into the good machine. It works fine with no errors. It's like there was never any other board in there. Shouldn't I get some sort of error ?

Also I can't see any "possible" problems on the MPU like on the mother board. Could the transformer possibly be bad on the "bad" MPU board ? Any way of checking it ?

And what is wrong with color blind nerds? I can't tell you if red is orange or blue is purple. All I know is that the top light on a traffic light means stop.

No. You would not be getting the 61 or any other displays if the transformer was bad.

One more thing you might try. First make sure the game chip is seated properly that and you didn't bend a pin or something after you did the clear. You might try putting the game and reel chip in it from your good MPU and see what happens (putting the MPU in the good machine). If it still won't clear the 61, then it's probably bad.

The good MPU did not show any errors since nothing had changed. The EEPROM and CMOS still match on that pair.

should I switch the cmos chip also ?

I would try just the game and reel first. If you swap the CMOS, then you WILL get a 61 when you put your good MPU back in. But you can try that too if you feel comfortable doing it. It won't hurt anything, unless for some odd reason your good machine has a problem clearing errors too. So far we have not had to clear anything with the good MPU.

Well poppo might be the best nerd.....making progress.

I pulled both game and reel chips from working board, stuck in bad board, put bad board in good machine. Got 61, then 61-1, then cleared it and it workeddddddddd.

No put old chips back in bad board, stuck bad board with it's original bad chips in good machine and got a code 67 now.
How to clear it ?

See this page for clearing various errors.

http://www.newlifegames.net/igterrors/ (http://www.newlifegames.net/igterrors/)

Open door.  Turn machine off, then on.

BTW, you got a 67 because you changed the reel chip.

Now if it won't clear again, you may have a bad game and/or reel chip.

Uugghh, stuck at the 61-1 again, won't clear with the key.
So that would mean the board is good but one of the chips is bad right ?

Once again, thank you everyone for all the help

Wait.......I did it one more time and it's WORKING..........

That's a good sign. However I have had MPUs that work one minute and not the next.

So put your good game back together, make sure it still works and wait until you get that replacement motherboard. There really is too much corrosion on the one you have to keep messing with it.

Thank you so much. I am getting a new motherboard for sure.

Now to try and educate myself to tackle the dollar bill parts on the good machine......

If need be, just start a new thread with any issues you have with the BV (best posted in the BV sub fourm).

Yes sir, I will. I think it's just not getting power though. Might not even be plugged in

When you get the new motherboard...please let us know how it turns out.  :89-
One-Hundred and Thirty Five posts to get this puppy on it's feet again...wow!

Minus all of the off-topic banter and it's probaby more like 12.    :72-

We can just keep it going.....

Yeah... the Title IS : "help needed with double red white blue machine"....lol
So what else is wrong with it?  :72-

If he's like the rest of us and keeps tinkering with his machine, it will only be a matter of time before there's another issue requiring our help... :79-  :200-  :97- :97- :97-

Yes I fit in perfect.....

Here is one for you. On the motherboard what do those burnt resistors control ? Reason I ask is because I put the machine back together(yes I'm getting a new motherboard)using the old motherboard and got a 65-3 code(I think), pushed the white button and it went away. Wheels spun so I figured it was good to go. The coins would just fall out and the lower part of the candle was flashing(meaning door was open right). So I took the good optics out of the other machine and plugged them in. With the wheel glass off I was able to shut the door and hold the known to be good optics so the were in exact alignment and still got the lower candle flashing.


To test the optics in the machine ... press the self test switch (3 times?) until 10  1 appears  ... turn the jackpot reset key until 13   x appears. Close the door and if 0 and 1 alternate blinks then the door optics are good.

Tried this also and it would not blink from 0 to 1.....

For the most part nothing of real importance.  However, I am more concerned about areas like this on your board. And you can't see what corrosion is under the MPU connectors. I really would stop messing with it until you get another motherboard as you will probably just be going circles.

Ok, I'll stop........that plug is so dirty because it didn't have anything plugged into it

I'm looking at the corrosion on the board between the connectors. And even if there is nothing plugged in, those traces still carry signals. When they get corroded and start conducting between them, then you have all sorts of problems. And if there is corrosion where you can see it, you can almost guarantee there is corrosion hidden between the MPU connectors and the board (and other connectors). And just one of the signals getting screwed up can cause the machine to malfunction.

While you are waiting for the motherboard, you could use your good machine to test some of the other items. Like the door optics, coin comparator, coin optics, etc. That way you will have a list of what you know is good.

Classic sign that the door optics are not working. Since you already swapped them, check the wiring carefully. Check for bent pins on all plugs, including the MPU.  You may also want to take the reel glass off so you can look to see if the optics are lining up with the latch down.

The above is a quote from this thread, and I'm truly baffled as to why one would remove the reel glass to align the door optics !  I for one do not like messing with a piece of glass that's sometimes near impossible to replace.

I take a Sharpie and put a mark lined up with the door optic on the door,( latch all the way down ) do the same thing with the cabnet optic ( mark on the cabnet ) close the door and see if the two marks line up.  Now the machine is not permanently disfigured with two black marks. They will clean off with soap and water, WD 40, acetone, the list goes on and on.

Buzz,

Did you see the condition of his motherboard? I really think he is wasting time trying to work on anything else until he gets that replaced. It's already caused him problems with his MPU.

As for the reel glass, I have seen it posted several times as an easy way to look and see if the optics are lined up. It takes just a minute to remove on a S+. Besides it gives one a good opportunity to clean it up really good. But your meathod would probably work ok too. Unless your cabinet is black.  :96-

<edit> I now see that your post was a quote without quoting.  :5-

Mark  I won't bet any money on this statement, but I seem to remember someone saying they put their boards in the dish washer. ( I hope not when they have a load of dishes being cleaned )

I do kind of agree this one is past all help. 

This is a little off topic, I have a S+ 5 reel with known good optics from a S 2000. They won't work, but I have one wire bypassing the optics and the machine plays fine. I don't know why the optics won't work and at this point I don't care. All I need to do is install a cheery switch and call it FIXED.

On most SP chips the lower candle remains flashing after the door is successfully closed, until one paid game has been played and completed.  As Poppo said, there are too many variables with that crappy motherboard.  I very much like his suggestion of swapping parts into your working machine to determine if they're good (and label them!) so you'll have fewer questionable parts when your new motherboard arrives.



Buzz-

Would you be so kind as to post a picture of the game?  I've only seen a few 4 reel and 5 reel S+ games and I'd love to see what game you've got.

You can wash most modern boards provided they don't have things like mechanical relays that water can get in, but won't like to get out of.  I would be hesitant on a S+ 10Mhz because they have those dip switches. Where I work part time, we work on radio equipment (those radios they use at fast food joints to take your order). And one of the biggest issues is the dip switches go bad because they get wet. The water will get in, but just won't come back out and then rust forms.

His motherboard looks more like corrosion than dirt. I have spent way too many hours trying to repair pinball MPUs that had battery corrosion. It seems like no matter how much work you put into it, the board will always have some sort of intermittent problem. That corrosion gets between pins of ICs or sockets and tends to become conductive causing all sorts of weird problems.  :47-

Years ago when I was in the military, we had a machine for washing boards and equipment. One of the guys decided to use it on a real old vacuum tube based radar system. That box had all sorts of paper type of capacitors and mechanical encoders and stuff like that. Needless to say it went :50- .  :25-

Kevin  This machine has been posted on here before. Kirk was the first one to post it, and I guess he sold his  I found this one on Craigslist locally, BS the seller when I picked it up, it's the same machine.   FYI   Blueridge has some 4 reel S+ machines.

Aah, sure, I remember the Twin Thunder discussions.  Funny that you wound up with the exact same machine that Kirk had -- does it still have the Luxor pyramid-shaped candle on top?

Yup. :89-

That was always an oddity of an S+ game but pretty cool.
I wonder what 4 reel games Blueridge has on hand?
Ohh..... Blueridge!!! Blueridge!!! Calling the Blue Ridge Mountain Devil!!!  :72-

Nothing new yet, waiting on parts. Just felt strange not posting.......

its work, its working.............
got the new board in and it works great. Now to do some adjusting to the settings.

thank you everyone

Glad to hear it.  :244-