New Life Games Tech Forums

 :103-  I just purchased a "Red White & Blue" slot machine manufactured by IGT.  The quarters will not go down the proper slot to give credits.  Any help would be appreciated. Model is B4933C, if that helps any.

First make sure that you have the proper sample coin on the comparator.

Next try turning the sensitivity adjustment back and forth a few times. Then turn it fully CCW and then CW just a bit.

Let us know if that helps.

<edit> But before even doing that, does it take bills? What is displayed on the front LEDs? Is the insert coin lit?

This machine takes quarters only.  It is an older machine, that appears to be from a casino, and is before bills and coupon payouts.  There is a piece that causes the quarters to go down the "reject" slot, and if it was "pulled" back into the coin mech, the quarter would go past the "scanner".  It was refurbed in 5/96.

If you post pictures, front and inside, we'll have an easier time helping. Sounds like an S or S+ model, but could be older. Need to see to know

Ok, so what is the status. Does holding back the diverter make it work? With the door open can you add a test credit with the little white button on the coin optic?

Pictures always help with identifying things.

Here is the coin mech.

Here is the outside of the machine.

You have the coin comparitor in backwards.  With a 25 cent machine you should be able to see the sample coin.

Second thought I think I'm wrong.

There is something just not right with the comparitor, Looking at the angle of the rake it's installed right. I'm thinking it's a Dollar CC.   Can you post the numbers on the front of it??

Also would you post a Pic. of the machine with the main door open ?

Here is a pic of the inside.

Here is a closeup of the coin mech.

Just a thought before I head to bed.  There is a key switch on the side of the machine.  Does this circuit need to be open or closed for the machine to operate?  I have key switches that I could replace it with if that is the problem.

Buzz I think you're on to something. That is what the back of the comparitors look like, except mine have the solenoid for the rake mounted on the back and his doesn't. They're the same otherwise. It may just be backwards

No Rob  look at the rake. A good coin will exit the CC to the hinge side of the machine ( our left )  That is what the CC in the pic. is doing.  I forget the number of the CC for Silver Dollars but it's installed like this one. (Ass backwards )

The key on the outside is just a jackpot reset switch and it is also used in the set up of the machine. It will not have any effect on the CC. ( I don't think )

Is that a dollar coin head I'm looking at ??   There is a chance it has a Dollar coin optic shim.

Forgot  it's a S+ machine.

  :30- lack of knowledge strikes again :97- Thanks for the lesson Buzz

:212-

That is definitely a large coin comparitor. The sticker on mine reads "57026990", not  "57026890", but it is almost the same (mine doesn't have a full spring, it has a spring loaded wire pushing from behind).

The spring-loaded coin holder/slider is clearly set for a large coin, and after comparing it to the position used for my $5 coin, it looks like it's probably a dollar token or Ike. Remember, it's backwards, so the position of the slider in his picture is almost completely open.

My S+ large coin head also trails to the right, so I think Buzz was correct and he also has a large coin head. I'm willing to bet that the hopper is a dollar hopper, too. :89- 

Hey, one can't expect a dollar machine to take quarters. :96- :30-  :72- :72- :72-

<ADD> After trying to measure his coin head, there's a possibility that it might just be a 50¢ machine... :128-

Stat :31-

Which goes back to the original question of whether or not it has the proper sample coin for what is being played.

The short answer is almost certainly not. The position of the sliding coin holder is much too wide to support a quarter and of course, that CC isn't even designed to hold a small coin.

The simplest solution is to remove the comparitor and verify the sample coin, then verify that the hopper is setup for the same sized coin. Then MrMrsSlots will have a choice of buying tokens that match his machine as it is set up or swapping out all of the components of the coin path to change it to a quarter machine.

Stat :31-

 :279-  OK, the wife and I like to play the slots.  But this is the first machine that I have ever owned, so please  :81- excuse the ignorance herein.  Since we usually play the quarter machines, and this machine is available in a quarter machine, I just assumed that is WAS a quarter machine.  The attached pic shows otherwise.  Now here are my new questions.  Can I get my hands on Silver dollar sized slugs/tokens?  And can I convert it to a quarter machine?

David I think your on to something it being 50 cents.  The coin head is a left hand entry and a dollar was most times a right hand entry. I did say most times because I have some dollar heads that are right handed.

I have to move a bull dozer today so will be gone, but I think I see a 61 error on the display that needs to be addressed. That or 61 credits.

Yes on both. It would probably easier and cheaper to convert it to quarters. You would need

Quarter coin comparator
Quarter spacer thingy for the optics
Quarter shelf wheel for the hopper
Quarter pinwheel for the hopper (but you might get by with using the dollar one, I have)

But as Buzz noted, it looks like you have a 61 error. To clear it do this:

1. Power up the machine (see if it still shows 61)
2. Open the door and press the white self test button and the display should change to 61_1 and you should hear a ding.
3. Close AND LATCH the door.
4. Turn the jackpot rest key and the 61 should clear.

Let us know what happens. You are dead in the water until all errors are cleared anyway.

 :131- Thank you, all of you, for your help in this matter.  I guess I need to replace the reset key switch ( I do have a similar one ).  Now I only have to check the reset switch to see if it is normally open or closed.  I will post back in a couple of days as to what has happened.  Have plans for this afternoon, and then for some unknown reason I still need to go to work and make at least some money. LOL

The switch appears to be a normally open switch.  But I can't seem to find the white self test button.  Where would this be located?

One last post ( for now that is ).  Found the white self test switch.  Pressed and held, got 61_1.  Closed the door, crossed the wires for the reset switch, and all appears to be working.  Now I just need a bunch of my silver dollars, or some slugs.  I wonder is any of my old sheet metal contacts could punch out a bunch of slugs for me?  Again,  :131- a big thank you to all who posted and shared your knowledge with me.

Glad you got the error cleared ok.  :3- Sometimes that 61 can cause some problems.  :25-

If you do use dollars or tokens or whatever, just be sure you put a matching one in the coin comparator. You will have to pull your CC out (it just snaps in place) to get to whatever is currently in there since it's on the other side.

And yes, the jackpot reset switch is a normally open switch that springs back on it's own when you release the key.

MrMrsSlots  until you round up the quarter parts your going to need, try putting a half dollar in the CC for a sample coin and see if the machine will play with them.  If you do have a dollar shim in the optics, it's going to not count every coin dropped in, but at least you will be able to play the machine some.

The only problem is with no coins in the hopper he might error out on a payout  (no idea how it's currently set up). I was going to suggest using the coin optics test button but then thought about getting hopper empty errors. I suppose we need to know what SP chip he has in there.

Another thing we both forgot is a quarter coin head.  He can modify the one he already has by grinding the ears on the back plate far enough so that two quarter can't be dropped in side by side. 

Mark I've also been known to make a optic coin shim out of a old wiring loom that's been cut out of a machine ( small gas hose will also work ) Just so it's fat enough that it stays in place after the optic has been put back together. ( Only you and your hair dresser will know for sure )

I don't entirely agree. It would certainly be easier to just buy the right sized tokens and use them. Some reasons to convert would be:

1. You would prefer to use quarters or quarter sized tokens.
2. Quarters have always been the most popular denomination in the home slot market, so it would help with resale.
3. Because of #2, quarter hardware is getting harder to find all the time. If you intend on ever converting the machine, the sooner you buy the hardware, the better.


As to the conversion being cheaper than buying dollar (or whatever) tokens, that depends on how you look at it. If you end up buying the hardware and 1000 quarter sized tokens, it might cost more than 400 dollar sized tokens. If you use real quarters, it will cost much more in the short term but the quarters will always retain their value and you could choose not to consider them an expense.

However, if you use real quarters and either have children or less than honest friends, you will lose money over time as some of the quarters will "accidentally" fall into your kids' and friends' pockets while they are playing.

I suggest taking the coin out of the comparitor and using it to check both the coin head and the hopper.

The comparitor snaps out, as poppo suggested. Just be careful because the plastic holders that it snaps into can become brittle with age. Remove the sample coin. If it's a dollar token or Ike, try dropping it through the coin head on the door to see if it will fit.

Then place it in the hopper to see if it seems set up for coins that size. What I mean is that the hopper has an inner shelf wheel (the smaller wheel that creates the ledge that the coins ride on) and an outer pin wheel (with the pins that push the coins along as the entire wheel assy. rotates.) Place the coin on the shelf wheel near the 12 o'clock position between two pins. Then take a picture and post it.

The 12 o'clock position of the hopper wheel plates will be behind that deflector plate (with the $1 written on it), so that might make this a little more difficult to do. It probably IS a dollar hopper, but it's possible that components were swapped out. I wouldn't blindly trust the "$1" written in magic marker.

I was not counting real quarters as an expense. But you have some valid points.

But another conideration is if he want it to be a $.025 machine, then he still needs to convert the parts unless he uses dollar sized tokens as quarters. either that or makes the machine a $1 machine. I suppose it all depends on how 'real' he want it to be.

I found my stash of Ike dollar coins.  I inserted one in the coin comparator (hopefully correctly), and attempted to insert coins into the machine.  Unfortunately the machine rejected the coins.  My next attempt was to shim the comparator rake, thinking that the rake solenoid was bad.  Since this did not help, I am thinking that the comparator is not sending the signal to the rake, and therefore the coin counter is not accepting the coins for credits.  Is that good thinking for a grasshopper, or am I stinking up the place worse than a cat that doesn't cover up his litter box "deposits"?

Did you try your test with the door closed? Is the insert coin light lit?

Tying back the rake should make the coin fall into the hopper. Assuming that is happening, the coin optics should still work. There should be a small white test button on the optics that should add a credit when pressed.

The Coins Played flashes alternately with the Insert Coins.  The Coins Played indicates 0.  If I press the white test button on the coin counter, the Coins Played goes to 1, then 2, then maxes out at 3.  At this point I can NOT play the machine.  If I close the door, the Coins Played goes back to 0.  The white test button does NOT cause the credit count to increase.

Ok, the alternating coins played with insert coins is normal until you play a game after opening the door.

Pressing the test button is registering the coins properly (it won't add credits, it just simulates coins being inserted), but you say you can't play it (with the door open). Did you try the handle or the spin button, or both? It should play the game. And closing the door should remove them, so that is working too.

Tried the Spin button and the Handel.  Both cause the wheels to spin.  So we are back to why it is not accepting the coins, and why it is not giving me credits.  What oh what do I check next.   :103-  Seems like the comparator is bad?  Would that cause the counter to not add credits?  Even if I have the rake pinned up?

The coin comparator's sole job is to check to see if the coin is valid (and divert extra coins to the tray). If the rake is tied back and the coin is going into the hopper (and though the coin optics), then it should work. Is the coin dropping into the hopper or the tray? Your coin optics may be bad. Do you know what SP chip you have? If not, read this and let us know. We can then do a coin optics test.

http://www.newlifegames.net/spset/SPSS.htm (http://www.newlifegames.net/spset/SPSS.htm)

BTW, you are not going to add credits (since you have no BV) unless you win and have it set to pay wins to credit. All you will be able to do is add 3 coins at a time to coins played (unless you have a SP chip that supports extra coins in). But credits is not an issue at this point.

And just to verify that the CC does nothing as far as registering coins, I pulled mine out (I have a door bypass switch) and dropped a coin directly into the optics and it registered fine.

Chip #'s, starting with the smallest and going left to right, top to bottom:

221A
9913 Y

P03SF
CD4093BCM

14520B
XAB9937

14585B
PAP016

14538B
XAB9940

With the rake tied back, the coins do go into the hopper, but do not register.

Nothing appears to be fried or loose.  Hopes this helps.

Poppo is correct. Another thing to try is to lower the sensitivity of the comparitor. I believe that the sensitivity pot is located on the back of your comparitor in the lower left corner (upper left in your "sideways" picture above) There should be a small hole labeled + <--> –    Use a jeweler's screwdriver to turn the pot clockwise (all the way to the – side, then turn it back an eighth of a turn or so.

It looks like your Ike is seated correctly. The left side (top in your picture) should be between those two small plastic guides and the spring loaded slider should hold the coin snugly in place.

Sorry, but that's not what we need. There are three socketed chips near the front of the tray (close to the blue volume knob). They are labeled (on the board) as "Game", "Reel", and "CMOS".

We're interested in the Game chip. If there is a sticker on it with something like "SP731" or "SP1048", post that number. If there is no sticker, then you can get the number from the test menu.

With the slot machine turned on and the door open, press the white test button (NOT the white coin optic button) until you see a 4 in the coin in window. You should see two numbers alternating in the winner paid (or credits) window. Write them down and post them.

But if they are going to the hopper, (rake tied back or not), there is something else wrong.

MrMrsSlots ,

Those numbers you posted are not what we need. We are looking for a SPXXXX number. That link will show you how to get it in self test mode. Unless ithe game chip is labled.

<edit> I'm slow on the keyboard tonight.  :96-

He said that the machine rejected the coins with the rake in place and still didn't work with the rake removed (shimmed). That suggests that he has problems with both components. Adjusting the sensitivity might (or might not) solve the comparitor issue. If coins dropping into the hopper are not registering, solving that issue will be the second part of the fix.

Yes, there does seem to be an issue with the CC, but it's easy enough to bypass for now. IMO getting the optics to register a coin is the more pressing issue. You can play with a broken CC, but not with a broken optics.

Adjusting pot did not help solve the rake issue.  As for the chip:

S-PLUS  GAME 10MHZ
SP1271  TYPE 0/1/4/5/19
10/28/02   (1-512)
2002 IGT  WII  S

As for further posts, it is 23:47 here, and I get up for work at 05:15.  I will check posts tomorrow.  Thanks again for all your help.

Also just to verify, with the rake tied back and the door open, does the coin actually drop through the optics?  

Here is the PSR for your SP1271

The coin input tests are what you will want to do.

That true.  :89-


Actually, I'm surprised to see a 1271 in there. The machine is a pre-dbv S+ so it can't make use of the all of the split limits the way one would with a dbv.

Unplug and take out your coin comparitor. Replace that coin you have in there with a new one. Make sure that new coin sits in there snug and even, it's important! If that doesn't work, take the cc back out and, I know it seems crazy, but, use the butt of a screwdriver and tap hard on the square-metal shaped area on your cc. Now put it back in and try.

I think he already did replace it. But that is not the biggest problem. The optics are not registering coins.

As noted earlier, there are multiple problems, but the CC can be bypassed for now. IMO it is a waste of time messing with the CC until the optics issue is resolved. Sure he can play around with the CC, but even if he gets that working, the machine still won't work.

just by looking at the picture you can tell that it is a dollar machine. IGT only made two types of base coin head, one for dollars and one for small coin (5-10-25-50). there may be others for other world currencies, but for U.S. coins I have only seen these two.
the dollar back plate is on the left side (as you face machine) all the others are on the right side. you can use different back plates for each coin, the base is the same.
because the opening is on the left for dollars, the coin mech. is inserted backwards so it will align itself to accept the coin and output the coin into the optics (optics don't change ) they accept ALL coins on the left side. in order to do this the four plastic holders have to be changed also. there are two positions for these as well. all the way in,for dollar coin acceptors, all the way out, is for all other coin denomination, with the CC facing so you can see the sample coin.
given all the information so far, by bet is the coin optics are bad, removing Q-2 or Q-4  should solve his problem. if his cc is bad, he can shim out the rake, and use it as is.
bottom line, remove the transistor, and machine should be good to go. won't cost you a penny to get the machine to work.

Jim     

Agreed. I only suggested to drop a coin though with the door open just to be absolutely sure it was indeed going into the optics. The optics test button works, so as long as the coin is actually dropping through, that only leaves a bad optics.

OK Jim here's the 3rd type.  I know your thinking I could have modified this one from a 50 cent coin head, but I didn't. This one has never seen a grinder. I'm pretty sure I got this coin head from Joey

Had a fellow that just had to have a dollar S 2000, I put all this in a machine and he bought a quarter machine. Go figure !! All I can say is, I have it ready for the next dumb S*** that wants a dollar machine.

>edit<  Jim    plastic CC clips are all the way out.

Whats wrong with a Dollar Machine, i like them

Buzz,   only referring to a S+ set up,  perhaps they changed all that on a S-2000,  can't comment on S-2000  because I have never had the opportunity to see a dollar S-2000.

Jim

Jim   Pretty sure they both use the same coin head. If I did in fact get this coin head from Joey, you can bet money it came from a S+.  I was more supprised that a dollar token will fit in a CC 16 D

Like I said before, if you need a dollar machine and don't happen to have a CC 32 13V or a CC 33 24V comparitor you can open up the back plate of a 50 cent coin head and use a CC 16 D ( 13 or 24V )

OK, I'm back on line.  I printed the PSR, but I am thinking about removing the Q2 or Q4.  I took the comparator and coin counter out, and I take it that the Q2, Q3, and Q4 receive the light from the other board.  When a coin goes through it interrupts the light to the Q's.  I take it by removing the Q2 or Q4, the coin counter will "think" it saw a coin?  Guess I take out the soldering iron.  Now should I use the 35watt one, or the 500watt one.  LOL

You can remove the part, but it might not hurt to run the optic test just to see what is not working. You do each of the 3 coin optic tests and use something to slide into the optic path to see if the number changes between 0 and 1 (not sure which it normally is). But blocking/unblocking the path should toggle it. 

Q-2 or Q-4  is a surface mount transistor. has nothing to do with the optic emitter or its receiver.   doing the optic test will only show the one optic as being blocked. that's because the shorted transistor has put a permanent ground on the collector of that receiver optic.  the reason I can't tell you which one it is .Q-2 or Q-4, there are two versions of that board, on one its Q-2, on the other its Q-4.  same tranistor. same function.  just a different desigination.

typically will fix 99% of these type problems.  I usually just take a small pair of cutting dikes and twist the device a quarter turn and it breaks right off.   no big deal.  takes 10 seconds to do. you don't  have to remove the  unit  to accomplish this. it can be done with it in place.


Jim

I guess I just like verifying things before lobotomizing it.  :96- 

I had a machine back in 2004 that was a dollar machine and If I remember right holding the rake open on large coin cc-33 made it reject acceptable coins instead of passing them to the optics.
I cant verify this I do not have a cc-33 for a s2000 around to even try to test or look at physically

I wonder if the optics are dirty?

That is why I suggested to verify the coin was actually passing through the optics. However, he did say they were going into the hopper, so I don't know how else they would get there. But we have seen some stranger things around here.

Agreed. Clean the optics before you go desoldering components. So a coin is dropped into the coin acceptor and it goes through the cc straight to the hopper without registering credit? How about testing the diverter?

Which diverter? If the coin is dropping into the hopper (since the rake was shimmed) that one does not matter. And the overflow diverter must be working or the coins would be landing in the bottom of the machine.

I see what you are saying Poppo. You are right, there must be a problem with the optics. I've seen a machine not accept credits due to dirty, dusty optics. One time I found a small piece of paper blocking the optics. The optics can degrade with use over time as well.