S Plus Problems

[Graham-UK]

Hi

I have an S+ RWB machine which came (I believe) from South Africa and was heavily modified before I got it. Some years ago, I had some great help here with fittng a coin comparitor and optics, but the machine has been standing some time now, and I am starting to get back to it. Most problems have now been resolved, but there are a few I still need help with if anyone can oblige...

1. I seem to be getting very regular error 21 codes (usually after just one or two coins), and am unable to clear them without completely changing the game, then changing it back again.

2. When the machine does work, I get error 3200 very quickly (after just a few spins), and again I can't seem to clear it without completely changing the game.

As background, this machine is not fitted with a hopper - I am considering buying one, but the cost of carriage plus import taxes means that will have to wait for a while. The comparitor is fitted in reverse with the rake bent out of the way, and will therefore accept most coins. I currently have a UK 2p piece in the comparitor and am using these coins. The coin optics have been modified following instructions given to me on here some years ago (removal of one transistor). The door optics had been removed and replaced with wires and a switch, but i have fitted replacement optics as I found it impossible to clear 61-1 errors without the optics in place.

This is the third machine I've owned - the other two were sold some years ago - and was working fine until the first time i got the 3200 error some years ago. One of the other machines I had was modified in the same way as this one as never gave any trouble for the time I owned it.

The chips fitted are: SS3280 3 coin RWB and SP733. The other game I have is on another PCB (so quite easy to change out and is a 2 coin haywire SS4072 and SP873)

What would be very much appreciated would be some step-by-step diagnostics I could use to find out exactly what the problem is. I don't have any documentation for setting up payouts etc., so these MAY be wrong, though I believe they were set up properly some time ago.

Thank you in advance for any assistance.

Graham

[poppo]

2. When the machine does work, I get error 3200 very quickly (after just a few spins), and again I can't seem to clear it without completely changing the game.

As background, this machine is not fitted with a hopper -

Let's start with this one. Did you hit the cash out button? What are your hopper limits? See this post. As noted there, you can pull the CMOS (no need to ground the legs though), pop it back in and it will get you to a 61 that you should be able to clear. Pulling the CMOS will dump all the credits.

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=3681.msg31114#msg31114

[Graham-UK]

Okay - so far so good.

I have removed and replaced the CMOS RAM and after clearing the 61 error, I now have the machine ready to go. I haven't as yet tried inserting any coins. I don't know what the hopper limits are, and I don't know how to find them. Also I haven't used the cash out button - the switch wires are disconnected so that the button can't be pressed accidentally.

Can you advise the next stage?

(The last few times I've got to this point, either I get a 21 error within the first couple of coins, or I get a couple of spins followed by the 3200 code).

Thanks

[poppo]

Here is the PSR for the SP733.  I forget if you are supposed to set the hopper limit to zero or a high number if you don't have a hopper.  I'm sure someone else will chime in.

The 21 almost has to be the coin optics.

[knagl]

1. I seem to be getting very regular error 21 codes (usually after just one or two coins),

I currently have a UK 2p piece in the comparitor and am using these coins.

A US quarter is 24.26mm in diamater, and a UK 2p piece is 25.9mm in diamater (1.64mm larger).

Do you know what size encoder (plastic diverter thingy) is in the coin-in optics?  If it's for a US quarter I'm wondering if the size difference is enough to cause the UK 2p piece to get hung up as it rattles through, causing it to block the optics for too long and cause a coin-in tilt.  If it's for a large token then it may be too large and coins may not be properly tripping all three optical sensors every time, causing occasional coin-in tilts.

2. When the machine does work, I get error 3200 very quickly (after just a few spins), and again I can't seem to clear it without completely changing the game.

Is the 3200 error happening the first time you hit a paying (winning) combination?  If so, the machine is trying to pay coins from the hopper, but because there isn't a hopper (or hopper optics) it's throwing this tilt.

[Graham-UK]

I'm pretty sure it is a 25c diverter. I do have some US quarters here, as well as UK 10p pieces which are the same size. I'll try those - if that is the problem I guess it will be fairly easy to get a larger diverter that i can modify with some strip styrene or something?

First, I should probably check the set up. I've just started looking at the PSR (thank you for that) - but I'm not sure what to do to ensure the hopper is set up correctly (and I'm not even sure how I enter the right mode to make changes!). Any chance of a step=by-step guide to a complete beginner?

Thank you.

[Graham-UK]

Sorry - missed this.

Is the 3200 error happening the first time you hit a paying (winning) combination?  If so, the machine is trying to pay coins from the hopper, but because there isn't a hopper (or hopper optics) it's throwing this tilt.

I can't be sure - it may have been a win, but if so it would have been very small (just a few coins).

[Graham-UK]

Okay.

Just tried a single coin (US Quarter) and got a 21 error straight away. I'll take out the optics and try cleaning them. Somewhere I'm pretty sure I have another set, so if that doesn't work i can try and find them.

[poppo]

I can't be sure - it may have been a win, but if so it would have been very small (just a few coins).

Any attempt to pay out of the hopper will cause it to error out. You need to make sure :

Player Selectable
Credit <0> [5]

is set to 0 so credits always go to the meter.

Look at this thread. While for a SP1271, most of the way you would get to these settings is the same.

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=12179.0

[Graham-UK]

Looks like there may be problems with the coin optics. I've cleaned with isopropyl alcohol, but am getting a 21 error with the first coin everytime now.

I've pulled out my box of spares, and the only other coin optic board I've got is different - and I think it may be from an S2000.

Any ideas if there are any other tests I can make before trying to get hold of a replacement board?

Thanks

[reho33]

S2000 comparitor will not work with the S+ it is 13 volts and the S+ one is 24

[poppo]

S2000 comparitor will not work with the S+ it is 13 volts and the S+ one is 24

Coin optics, not comparitor. 

[Jim]

there is one test you can try:  open door, press the white test button until you get to the input tests  1 in the coins played window,10-1 in the winner paid window.  remove the coin comp.  use a small item shaped like a popcycle stick and place it into the black optics (where the coin would go) as you move it side to side you should see the 1 change to a 0 when you block that optic. press the change button on the door, this will advance to the next test, now 11_1 in the winners paid window, press the tiny white button below the optic board this should change it from a 1 to a 0, now use the stick and see the same results, press the change button for the final test, 12_1 in winners paid window, repeat with the stick , should change from a 1 to a 0. if all these pass then your optics are doing what they should be doing.
If they passed, I would try the following: get back to the 10_1(just press the change button until you go thru the input menu and it will take you back to the test you want) wiggle all the plug connections( the optic plug and the harness plug ) see if that changes the test, then do it for the other two and observe the outcome.
you can also try this: assuming you have a belly door, remove the coin comparator assembly and  close main door, open belly door and reconnect to the harness, this will allow you to hold the unit in your hand and wiggle all the connections and see if the code 21 will come up when you do this .

Jim   

[StatFreak]

...The comparitor is fitted in reverse with the rake bent out of the way, and will therefore accept most coins. I currently have a UK 2p piece in the comparitor and am using these coins.
...

Small coin comparitors are not usually fitted in reverse. It might have been done because the coin head was a "lefty" instead of a typical "righty." Are you sure that it's a small coin comparitor?

As has already been noted, check the optic spacer when you take out the optics to clean them and make sure that it's intended for quarter-sized coins.
I'll let those with more experience tell you whether using a large coin comparitor with small coins and a small coin optic would cause problems.




The SP733 appears to have an early version of separate hopper and credit limits but without testing I'm only guessing, since I've never used one.

Max Hopper Pay <7>   Programmable only if the DIP switches 1 and 2 are set for self test selection (on position), otherwise this page is for display purposes only.  Determines the maximum number of coins that may be paid out of the hopper.

Cash Out Limit <18>   Determines the maximum amount of credits that can be cashed out of the hopper.  Also determines whether wins are hopper paid or hand paid when the cash out limit is exceeded

This suggests that option <7> is really the credit limit and that option <18> is really the hopper limit. You might try setting one of these to 0 and the other to your desired number of max credits to try to disable the hopper completely.


If that doesn't work (and since getting a hopper is difficult), you might want to consider changing your SP chip from SP733 to SP1271.
SP873 doesn't have the above option, so in any event I'd replace it with an SP1274.

The newer chips will allow you to set separate hopper and credit limits, thereby disabling your hopper entirely (set hopper limit to 0), and a vendor here could mail them to you for much less than shipping a hopper.

If you're a home slot owner and only use the set chip to set the denomination and turn on the DBV (no SAS, EFT, etc.) then your old SET015 or SET026 will work with the newer SP chips. You would need the correct SET chip (probably SET088) if you ever wanted to setup internal progressives. (Note: SET090 won't work with the SP1274)

[Graham-UK]

Thanks for the help so far. I'm not able to get to the machine today, but will try some of the above and report back tomorrow. The comparitor is, I believe, a dollar comparitor fitted backwards. This was done due to the costs and difficulty at the time of obtaining a standard 25c comparior. The comparitor and instructions on modifying the optics were supplied by someone (or several people) who post on this board (April?), but it was a long time ago and my memory tends to fail me quite often at the moment. The machine does not have a belly door, and the comparitor is not wired in except for the solenoid. The coin optics are wired normally, but a transistor has been removed from the PCB.

There is no bill validator fitted - the machine was originally networked with a credit card slot and had no coin entry at all. The coin head, comparitor, optics, door optics etc. were all retro-fitted by me some years ago (I think aboout 2005/6) after much advice from here and elsewhere. Unfortunately illness caused a lull in proceedings and my other 2 machines (one was almost identical, the other was a US import with normal comparitor etc.) were sold making it harder to test parts by swapping.

The only good thing is that this machine did work well for some months after modifying and it is only after some time that I've gone back to it. Also it hadn't in the past (as far as I can recall) errored with a 21 - so this implies that the comparitor setup is OK?

The machine is only for home use, so it is not critical how it is set up. I've also been looking at some posts here about fitting circuits to do away with coins altogether, so this is another option.

Graham


Graham

[Graham-UK]

Okay - I've managed to spend a little time on this today. As I have no door on the belly glass, I soldered a couple of wires to the coin optics switch and ran them out of the machine to a simple push button. Adding credits via this method, rather than putting coins in worked perfectly without any of the error 21 messages. Unfortunately as soon as i got a win, the error 3200 came back up.

Rather than buy a new set of optics, and as this is only for play use at home, I think I will set up a push button as a permanent fixture, and either carry on using the original optics board as is, or possibly build an emulator similar to a circuit i found on this board a few days ago using a PIC.

That then will just leave the hopper. I will try playing about with settings later, but has anyone designed any sort of emulator similar to the coin in one? If not, and as I'm not really clever enough to design my own, I will probably order the later chip and see how that goes.

[TZtech]

Hello Graham

Have a look at the last thread on this post - As you can see there is not much to it.
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=7238.msg70036;topicseen#new

Ian

[Graham-UK]

Thanks for all the help.

I currently have the machine working by using the 'cash-out' button to operate the coin optics test switch and have managed to increase the limits on the non-existant hopper so the machine is playable.

If I can build the emulator, then I should be able to remove the coin optics, comparitor, etc and block the entry shoot - then I can start playing about with different game types!