Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?

[stayouttadabunker]

I know it can be done using either the four output pins on the right side of the motherboard that hooks into progressives?
Or using the output pins on the motherboard for the mechanical (hard) counters.
I wanted to keep stats on my desktop from the S+.
You know, basic stuff...coin-in, coin-out, drop, and jackpots.
These are basically momentarily open and closed pin-outs, right?
Could it communicate via the RS232 on your desktop computer?
Any thoughts or answers on this would be fantastically appreciative!

[jay]

The progressive doesn't output this information.

You have a 4 pin connector.
Not Used
Data In
grnd
Coin in

You have the coin In which produces a momentary short with ground upon a coin in or credit play.
data in allows the progressive to feed information back to the slot LCDs on a jackpot.
On a PE+ this shows the jackpot amount at all times on the screen.

I think this is a Rs422 protocol (not rs232).

What you are looking for is the SAS output, which is serial but follows a proprietary protocol.
Ideally I would like to put in a casino cash management system in place complete with card readers on the machines that would be cool.

[stayouttadabunker]

Thanks Jay,
I dont have a progressive system other than that little photron meter up behind the top award display glass.
There's a little harness from the topbox that feeds info to a small PCB board when then feeds thru a flat cable to the display.
I wonder if I could splice it and get the values from that and feed it to my desktop via
a rs422-to-rs232 convertor.
OR, should I splice into the (HARD) counters signals and send those to my computer? 

[SAT (aka GANDHI)]

100% in agreement with Jay...

The SAS output is the one you need... The information you are referring to is recalled/transmitted through SAS which is the proprietary com-protocol of IGT for online data management in slot machines.   

Once you "speak" SAS you are done... 

Actually, not sure if it's appropriate to ask for it here but I have been looking for an IGT manual where SAS is described from A to Z as communication protocol.

If somebody can give me a hand finding it I'll be greatly appreciated.

Moderators:  If I violated rules with my request please let me know and feel free to edit my post.

Best Regards.

[stayouttadabunker]

That sounds rather difficult...trying to decipher a proprietary protocol. 
I am not even interested in even trying to attempt that, as far as I'm concerned...
-IGT can keep their protocol and stick it where the sun dont shine?

I was just looking for a simple way, not the hard way! ...  (purely in jest like the 3 stooges)

I'll just splice the outputs to the hard meters and run it to my computer.
Thanks for your input, and karmas + galore guys!

I'll post and let everyone know how I got it to work with windows xp...
I used a computer software of a regular burgular alarm hooked up to the S+'s "hard" meter counters.
These are all NO/NC circuits.
I changed the fonts in the dialog boxes that say for example: "door opened" or "smoke alarms" to "Coins-In" and "Coins-Out".
The alarm software counts every time a "door" is opened and every time a "window" is opened.
These are many inputs for an alarm and they all work with only two wires- a (+) and a (-)ground wire.
The alarm box communicates to my computer via RS232 cable.
Works great!
Now I have "Coins-In",Coins-Out","Drop", and "Jackpots" statistics all going to my desktop!

[stayouttadabunker]

This is a photo of the computer interface for the alarm control panel.
I used a much longer telephone wire that I bought from Lowes and ran it from my home alarm panel to my computer in the den.
Using the extra inputs on the alarm panel, I ran an extra telephone cable back to the S+ upstairs and spliced it with the wires going into the hard meters.
Now, all the info from the machine runs down to the control panel and back up to my computer via the PC-LINK-01.

[jay]

Progressive information is not related to the information on the hard meters.

A slot payback is based on the %chip and all sorts of regulations control how the machine plays.
A progressive is simply a marketing tool. For each coin in a % of that coin is added to the progressive amount.
Putting this into prospective for 1/8th of 1% you might be able to get someone to sit down on a slot that may not have otherwise sat there just because he sees a huge amount of money that has been gathered up from a number of machines. More than likely these machines have the 85% pay backs and I would be surprized if they were even 92% much less the 98% ones.

Back to the topic at hand - assuming you are just starting out at zero you would be able to capture COIN IN as each coin was played but you would not know which machine it came from and other than the top award you would have no idea of coin out.

Tapping the hard meters would give you the information you want , however you will need to build an interface for each machine and/or meter.

You will also need to do a fair bit of custom programming to read the serial information. You also need to remember that this is real time information meaning that the event happens when the event happens 6 coins paid from machine A might be occuring at the same time as machine B so you need to be polling the serial interface pretty fast and I am not sure how you will differentiate which machine it comes from. If you are going down this path you might be best with Linuix as you can download all sorts of open source code and not have to reinvent the wheel.

i did a fair bit of work with process control systems and basically all the information is buffered at the device sensor. The devices are called PLC's Programmable Logic Controllers. This then allows the serial interface to query each PLC at leisure rather than trying to do it in real time.

I think with SAS it reads the statistic information stored in the machine when it is required not in real time. This is the info that you get when you turn the jackpot reset key.
If this is already here, I am not one to want to reinvent the wheel.

[stayouttadabunker]

Thanks for you good answer Jay! It is very helpful.
At the moment though, I'm trying all kinds of things, believe me! lol

I've even taken a coin-in hard meter apart and noticed that when ever a coin is dropped, there's a signal driven to a magnetic relay? inside the hard counter that pulls on a pawl that turns the counter wheels.
I'm thinking of splicing into that signal ,using it as an NO/NC signal and running it back to the alarm system to give me a "coin-in" tally.
Essentially, every pulse is now returned to the alarm panel board , for example as : "door #1 opened" pulse.
That pulse in turn is returned to my desktop under a column which I named "Coin-In" - rather than "door#1 opened"

I am experimenting with an Office program that tallies up the amounts to give me statistical totals.
I do the same for the other hard meters (coin-out,drop,and jackpot) to get the same results.

Of course this is an old alarm system I had and it's not connected to the fire department or anything.
It's only connected to my desktop.
If it was , I'd have the fire trucks over at my house every time I put a quarter in the machine!

[Foster]

I would rather figure out the SAS signals and data.
Have it converted to USB and grab the data that way.
I think the first of the year I am going to Ram Clear both machines.
Start recording it on regular basis.
I cant stand the hard meters so they are not even in use.
I just hope the soft meters don't reset with a game change.


 

[stayouttadabunker]

Foster,
Can you post how you converted it to USB and show us how that could be done?
That would be very helpful
I 'd like to try that as well.

[Foster]

I havent even started the project yet
I first have to find the SAS data connections at the motherboards.
Then talk to a freind or 2 that have the logic probes/scopes etc to look at the signals and capture them to study.

[Ozzy]

As far as I can recall SAS output uses J4 on the S+ mother pcb and you will need a DUART chip located in IC socket U18.


cheers


Ozzy

[stayouttadabunker]

Awesome,Thanks OZZY!
I was always wondering what that J4 socket was for...
Would anyone know what the J2 socket is used for?
Karmas + to you,Foster,Sat,and Jay. thanks guys!

[Ozzy]

Think this is an option for putting optics on the mpu pcb card cage,

J2

pin 1  24vac hot
pin 2  24 vac common
pin 3  B gnd
pin 4  Card Cage det
pin 5  B gnd
pin 6  Card Cage LED


cheers


Ozzy

[stayouttadabunker]

Thanks Ozzy,
I agree with you...I just saw it on my schematics.
I need a magnifying glass because my schmeatic drawings are so small and distorted.
My eyes must be getting bad

ADD>> In the U18 socket is a Phillips DUART SCN2681AC1N28 dip chip.

[SAT (aka GANDHI)]

Think this is an option for putting optics on the mpu pcb card cage,

J2

pin 1  24vac hot
pin 2  24 vac common
pin 3  B gnd
pin 4  Card Cage det
pin 5  B gnd
pin 6  Card Cage LED


cheers


Ozzy

Ozzy = NUMERO 1

[Neonkiss]

I'll post and let everyone know how I got it to work with windows xp...
I used a computer software of a regular burgular alarm hooked up to the S+'s "hard" meter counters.
These are all NO/NC circuits.

I do have a small amount of knowledge as to how an alarm system program works. The only problem I see in using that type of program is the system is constantly polling for an open circuit. It may take up to 1.5 seconds to compleat this audit of the system for a change in the contacts (closed to open).
You can see this happening in a commercial building with smoke detection. The panel sends out the signal to check the status of each device and waits for a reply. (That's the red blinking LED light on a smoke detector.) The problem I see is that a coin drop opens and closes a switch measured in mil seconds. This could happen before the system get around to checking that circuit again which by then would show no change since the last check and not regester the coin drop.
If you have that system hooked up to your computer you may want to check a very quick open and close of a contacts and see if it regesters before you spend a lot of time with this type of program.

[stayouttadabunker]

I agree Neonkiss,
I thought I was getting the coin-in, but I was only getting part of it.
The polling is too slow on the alarm system.
I ended up disconnecting everything!
It all came apart a lot faster than when I put it together...

I tried though , huh?

[TZtech]

Hello All

I was recently looking at this device for my route operations. This captures the hardmeter pulses from the processor boards. I have not tried this system yet but it may work for you.
Although it would be better to use SAS as a failure on a meter drive transistor will screw up your accounting totally. The problem is that IGT only releases the SAS protocol to registered developers of gaming systems only. This is a pity as there have been a few requests here from people who lwould like to play with this. Foster if you do have any luck decoding the signals let us know.

Regards
Ian

[stayouttadabunker]

Thanks for the excellent link TZ,
I gotta give them a call.
The interface board looks rather simple doesnt it?
I wonder what's programmed on that chip that "reads" the data though.
This may be what I was looking for!


ADD>> karmas + to you good man!

[Ozzy]

Here is another company that does on line accounting and player tracking modules, very cheap prices, am considering the player tracking myself for a few units over here, WORKS OUT AT ABOUT $300 PER MACHINE.

http://www.cadaso.com

Guys contact name is Simon Lezard, new him back in the 80' and I think he is one of the guys that designed the systems.


cheers


Ozzy

[TZtech]

Hello Again

Cost they quoted me 2 months back was 175 Euro + 10 Euro for the software.
Thanks for the link Ozzy - That looks like something i should investigate further

Ozzy - have a look at www.sip.co.at if you are shopping for a system. Its a bit expensive (+/- $1000 per machine for hardware and $1 a day per device licensing) but it does accounting/cashless/progressives and promotions and due to the fact that it uses distributed computing does not require any servers of back of house equipment. All you need is a standard desktop for cashiers if you use cashless and it talk via standard network switches/cabling.

Not sure what machine you are running over there but it does talk to most of the newer stuff that talks SAS.

Regards
Ian

[Ozzy]

nice one mate, will check them out.


cheers


Ozzy

[stayouttadabunker]

Well, I did it!  yea!
I hooked up not one, but TWO S+'s to my home computer! 
The controller is capable of taking in the data from 32 machines really...I hooked it up to the second and fourth lines on the data cable.
So far I can get the "Coins-In" and "Jackpots" paid out displayed on my desktop screen....
It's really cool...I made one of my lousy little short clips
The 2 games are running on the "Auto-Play" Max bet buttons I had made during the winter.
You can hear the 2 machines playing off credits in the background as I'm running to the computer...lol
Here it is>>>>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/KAaHIXNzT-Y&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/KAaHIXNzT-Y&rel=0</a>

[jay]

Hi,

The video won't actually allow me to click on it and play it.

IS this connected up through the progressive controller (ie would I need to buy a CDS progressive) or are you interfaced directly to the machine ?