More DOJ discussions. Split from: WTS 5 IGT S2000 MACHINES

[proten]

It's to bad for us that don't have a DOJ.

Paul

[FORDSBS]

I have to many machines already.
If I was in market I sure would get them.
I had dealings before with Bob & he is a square shooter. Good guy to deal with.
Ford

[tollguy316]

I have to many machines already.
If I was in market I sure would get them.
I had dealings before with Bob & he is a square shooter. Good guy to deal with.
......................................................................Hmmm  .... I've tried contacting Bob several times about a machine that he was holding for me ; but I never got a response.     Hopefully others will have better luck !!!

[StatFreak]

It's to bad for us that don't have a DOJ.

Paul

You ARE in a legal state, however (Texas). As far as I know, he should be able to sell to you, but he did specify DOJ. You might want to send him a pm and ask.

[Brianzz]

It's to bad for us that don't have a DOJ.

Paul

DOJ's are free... doesn't take long to get them.. whats the problem?

[StatFreak]

It's to bad for us that don't have a DOJ.

Paul

DOJ's are free... doesn't take long to get them.. whats the problem?

Brianzz, that's true, but why should the average Joe private collector in a legal state have to get one? That was not the intent of the DOJ, or was it?

[raz410]

SORRY,I WILL SELL THE MACHINES TO ANY LEGAL STATES,I WILL ADD THIS MY LISTING.BOB

[cowboygames]

So now he's pickin' on members, who by no fault of there own, don't happen to live in a state as open-minded as some of the other states Don't know why I put up with these obviously racist sales practices

[Bettor Slots]

Brianzz, that's true, but why should the average Joe private collector in a legal state have to get one? That was not the intent of the DOJ, or was it?

There is an ongoing belief that I have seen in many posts on this site that somehow possession of a DOJ gives one the right to own gaming machines in a State with "gray" area laws or laws that require the machine to be 25 years or older as an example.  There is also this belief that once one registers with a DOJ that it somehow may attract attention to them at the State level....I doubt this is true, and I doubt that the Federal government makes a point of issuing lists of individuals to State authorities of it's registrants.

In fact, and the purpose of a DOJ, for one who registers with the Department of Justice at the Federal level, gives them the LEGAL right to arrange transport or receive gaming machines legally from one State to another as far as Federal Law is concerned.  The machines may pass through States where they are illegal and they may also be received in a State where they are illegal.  This however does not grant the receiver the right to possess the machines in a State where they are illegal, they do so at there own risk.  From the time the machines cross the border into a State where they are illegal, one risks the possibility of confiscation and fine from State and Local authorities unless they are an established business (in some States registration and License is required, like California).  

So here we have the perfect example.  Bob lives in a State where private ownership of a gaming machine is illegal.  He does not distribute machines to private individuals in his own state unless they have been converted to "free play" and / or do not "pay out".  Since he is an established business and is registered at the Federal level with the DOJ, he may receive and distribute machines legally to other States.  He may do so to individuals or businesses in legal states and the receiver is not required to be registered with the DOJ.  He may also distribute to individuals and businesses in illegal States provided that they are registered with the DOJ.  He has done his due diligence and is not legally bound or liable for anything else.  The receiver of the machine, even with a DOJ in an illegal State assumes the risk with State and Local authorities.  I imagine about 80% of the NLG membership assumes this same risk on a daily basis.

[stayouttadabunker]

Basically, for someone living in an illegal state....uh....should move...
Why? Because a piece of paper is not going to help you one bit when you're being bars. 

[Bettor Slots]

heh...I don't know...how many here "risked" driving over the speed limit today?  Everyone right.  If you own a machine privately and do not advertise the fact and certainly do not use it for actual gambling purposes...I don't think your going to have any problems...and worst case scenario you will likely have your machine confiscated.  State laws were formed in most cases to put an end or limit the illegal gaming parlors where actual gambling is going on.  The laws were formed to give the authorities the legal right to go in and take action against establishments like that.  I highly doubt the legislators that made the laws had it in the back of there mind that they were forming this law to put an end to the "collectors" private ownership of such a machine in there own private home provided no gambling in taking place.

[StatFreak]

...
There is also this belief that once one registers with a DOJ that it somehow may attract attention to them at the State level....I doubt this is true, and I doubt that the Federal government makes a point of issuing lists of individuals to State authorities of it's registrants.
...
 (in some States registration and License is required, like California).  
...

Perhaps the setup in California is not typical of most restricted states, but CH will verify that he received a rather stern letter from the state very shortly  quite a while after filing for his DOJ asking why he had filed Federally and wanting to know his intentions. He had already applied for had a California license for some time (the state screwed up), so all he had to do was to show them proof of that and the matter was closed. If he had not applied for a state license, he would have been in hot (or at least tepid) water.

So at least in the case of California, the Federal government issues lists of individuals to the state authorities, or more likely, the state makes a point of requesting such lists on a regular basis from the Federal government.


My point is only that filing for a DOJ is not as harmless or anonymous as some members on the site would suggest.



<EDIT> I was mistaken about some of the facts regarding CH's situation and have amended them. He had already held his California license for some time before they contacted him. The state screwed up and sent out the letter without first checking to see if he was registered in CA. Sorry CH

[Bettor Slots]

So at least in the case of California, the Federal government issues lists of individuals to the state authorities, or more likely, the state makes a point of requesting such lists on a regular basis from the Federal government.

Yes,  California is very proactive and it would not surprise me if they have a division that monitors all activity.  Since DOJ's are a matter of public record, I would not be surprised if they go out and acquire an updated list of registrants on a regular basis.

They also have some unique requirements for transport of gaming machines in and out of the State.  For example the software must be removed from the machines and shipped separately.  Also, the machines must be crated or wrapped in a black plastic if they are shipped with a common carrier.  I'm not certain if the same concealment requirements apply if an entire truck load of gaming machines are freighted on a dedicated shipment.  I know I was part of one such distribution of over 50 machines on a single truck load and in that case they did not have to be concealed, although we were required to pull the software.

[stayouttadabunker]

Do black garbage bags count?
Oh man, the laws are ridiculous aren't they?

Why does the software have to be shipped separately?
What if UPS decides to put the separate boxes into the same shipping truck...
one doesn't really have any control over that?

[Brianzz]

Brianzz, that's true, but why should the average Joe private collector in a legal state have to get one? That was not the intent of the DOJ, or was it?

..............

I'm well aware of all this, but a DOJ is generally an indication that one isn't doing any illegal activities, ie garage casinos, and is more and more being required by sellers.

[Bettor Slots]

Why does the software have to be shipped separately?
What if UPS decides to put the separate boxes into the same shipping truck...
one doesn't really have any control over that?

   I think they're afraid the truck driver might pull over to some diner off the highway, plug the machines in, and open up a temporary casino   

[stayouttadabunker]

Why does the software have to be shipped separately?
What if UPS decides to put the separate boxes into the same shipping truck...
one doesn't really have any control over that?

   I think they're afraid the truck driver might pull over to some diner off the highway, plug the machines in, and open up a temporary casino  

Reels on Wheels...

More fun than a Bookmobile...

[StatFreak]

Why does the software have to be shipped separately?
What if UPS decides to put the separate boxes into the same shipping truck...
one doesn't really have any control over that?

   I think they're afraid the truck driver might pull over to some diner off the highway, plug the machines in, and open up a temporary casino   

Reels on Wheels...

More fun than a Bookmobile...

    "Serving up hot slots three times a day to needy, hungry gamblers for over 50 years."

[brichter]

Double Diamond Dine?

 

[jay]

The issue is the seller is in PA (a 1943 or earlier state). He is selling IN state with no guarentees that the seller is taking the slot out of state or to a legal state.
It would be different if he was shipping to a address in a legal state.
The effort to get a DOJ is zilch so as a seller there is nothing wrong with an ounce of protection....,

[coorslight115]

A few years ago I had a break in to my home. I had at least 5 county policemen, 2 detectives and a crime scene investigator in my house. They all commented on how cool my machines were 
I live in an Illegal state to own. And the Mikohn wall display showed $40,000+ progressive at the time and the machines were 100% coin active. All in who you are and if you are looking for trouble. But! can still bite you in the AS!

[PWRSTROKE]

A few years ago I had a break in to my home. I had at least 5 county policemen, 2 detectives and a crime scene investigator in my house. They all commented on how cool my machines were 
I live in an Illegal state to own. And the Mikohn wall display showed $40,000+ progressive at the time and the machines were 100% coin active. All in who you are and if you are looking for trouble. But! can still bite you in the AS!

A Man.  Better off being smart about what you/We all do and keep it as a HOBBY.  The fuzz and fbi,igt,bally,williams, state and all others are out to bust those dumn asses that set up gambling halls/etc..  One of the biggest examples would be the state of Texas--ALL machines legal state but there are thousands of "rooms" there doing illegal activity and get busted daily just to bail out and open up some where else-Guess the money is good for them to do that.  From what I noticed most of them are non-native to the united states in one way or another and run them like a convienent store.  Sorry about the Rant on this-B.

[PWRSTROKE]

Getting off the main thread so I apoligize--We sometimes do this,  Also as a note "Texas"  ALL machines Legal state---Here is your riddle --How many CASINOs do they have-- .  B.

[Magicslots]

Also as a note "Texas"  ALL machines Legal state---Here is your riddle --How many CASINOs do they have-- 

The answer is NONE   And that Sucks Big Time! 

[PWRSTROKE]

Well,  As far as I know you are CORRECT.  Now watch someone try and throw a curve ball but I do not think so.  What a shame--Texas One of the biggest states in the us (another quiz) ALL machines LEGAL and no casinos-- .  I live in a state with over 50+ Good heavy-hitter casinos....................... And only certain ones are legal but can be "converted" to make every one happy.  Go figure.  B.