13" lcd touchscreens

[SilverFerret]

Recently I have had issues with my touch screen going off calibration and was getting pretty frustrated but I have replaced my touch screen controller with a good one and so far it seems to be working fine. Point of this is that I am not in a big hurry but I am wondering where to get an LCD screen for my 13" Game King to replace the tube style one I have right now if it gives me trouble again.
I've seen them in 17" and 19" I believe and figure they have them for the 13" as well.
Also, what is the price for something like this. It could end up being a Christmas gift from my wife if it's not outrageous.
Thanks, Jim

[Tilt]

Ceronix has a 15" LCD replacement for the 13" CRT.  Their part number for it is CPA4013L.  It comes with a new bezel and is listed at $539.00.  I think that's about $100 less than what mine cost last year.    I don't know if anyone else makes a replacement for it that will sell them to a home user in single quantities.

[SilverFerret]

Are they worth it?
That's about what I paid for the whole machine. Seems kinda silly.

[stayouttadabunker]

Are they worth it?
That's about what I paid for the whole machine. Seems kinda silly.

It is...

[SilverFerret]

Yeah but it may be a last ditch effort if I have more touch screen issues with this set up. So far so good with this controller but its only been in a couple of weeks. My last one made it three weeks before losing calibration (but that was a bad one that I tried to fix).
We'll see. Thanks, Jim

[Tilt]

Yeah, I know.  My monitor took a long time to warm up and had some burn-in too, but the rest of the machine looked really nice, especially after I repainted the cabinet, replaced the buttons, and installed LED lighting.  What I paid for the machine + new LCD isn't out of line with "retail" prices for one with a CRT, so that's how I justified it in my mind.    I could have looked for another CRT, but didn't want to get another one in similar or worse condition than what I had.  Peace of mind I guess, and that's worth something too.  As they say, your mileage may vary.

[stayouttadabunker]

My question is this:
Does it HAVE to be an IGT LCD screen monitor?
Can't you just use some old LCD screen on ebay like a Dell monitor's guts or something like that?
Any 13" or larger computer desktop LCD monitor should work, no?

[SilverFerret]

I couldn't tell you as I am not an electronic tech by any means. I'm just a guy who likes slots. But I guess you could if you place the touch screen cover thing onto the new monitor. Sounds possible.

[ROCKET]

My question is this:
Does it HAVE to be an IGT LCD screen monitor?
Can't you just use some old LCD screen on ebay like a Dell monitor's guts or something like that?
Any 13" or larger computer desktop LCD monitor should work, no?

If its a 3m touch screen -- MY GUESS -from working on touch screens daily .. that you would atleast have to use a 3m replacement . because the drivers for a "ELO" most likey were never installed in the IGT machine . making  you have to buy a 3m brand touch screen .

many company's that mass produce touch screen games as IGT -BALLY -WILLIAMS -UNIDESA -ARISTOCRAT -MIDWAY -MERIT -ETC ETC
THEY BUY >>there touch screens from ONE COMPANY !!

so when it comes time to replace ?? you have to go to that co. to buy from or a compatible aftermarket CRT or LCD that was made from same co. that the original game installed the DRIVERS FOR THE TOUCH SCREEN .. most by todays standards ae not interchangeable -- meaning if it came with a 3M MICROTOUCH T/S then you need to install 3M PARTS -- The other  famous brand and best on market >>ELO<<wont be recognized if installed
because the drivers for the ELO T/S were never installed in the game from the game design get go ..

hope this helps out some concerns ??
==============================================================
as far as the calibration going out --every time you move a machine it should be recalibrated .
 every time you adust the size of view area it needs to be recalibrated !!
simle things to do are plastic tie the plug onto the controller so vbration of door slams dont bump it loose.

check all grounds from the touch screen --green wire  etc .
make sure the touch screen is attached with double sided tape the entire way around ??
 some game co's just use 6-strips of double sided tape  to hold there screens on . >>there cheap<<trying to save money

after a long warm up and pro--longed playing  --the screen can actually sag from weight and doub sided tape heating up and getting less sticky ..

BEFORE A PURCHASE OF A NEW LCD OR NEW CRT TOUCH SCREEN .. I WOULD REMOVE THE EXISTING SCREEN -CLEAN CRT WITH REG RUBBING ALCOHOL .DRY IT -- THEN RE ATTACH IT WITH 3M DOUB SIDED TAPE  >>RED COLOR<<
NOT THE GREEN OUTSIDE WRAP COLOR 3M TAPE . the green color tape is fine for quick test purposes but does not hold up to heat  as a rule .

many problems of touch screens have been solved by removing the entire screen and clean and replace it !!
THEN RECALIBRATE IT !.
ITS MUCH  $$$$$ CHEAPER TO DO THE ABOVE --THAN TO JUST BUY A NEW CRT T/S OR A LCD T/S TO THINK YOUR SOLVING THE PORBLEM.

[stayouttadabunker]

Great Post Rocket! 
I'm sure that will a bunch of questions on the LCD screens
especially concerning the 3M brand controllers!

[SilverFerret]

Thanks Rocket,
As far as the going out of calibration thing, it's strange because its not just slightly, but inches off by just having the machine on for a while. The monitor is in great shape to the point where when the machines off, I don't see burn in at all and the touch screen seems very secure and in great shape as well. I'm on my third controller and this last one was tested good when I bought it but it too is now sparactically going off calibration and starting to do just what the other two do after just about three weeks of occasional use.
It seems to me that something else is causing these controllers to go bad but I don't know enough about electronics to pinpoint the real issue.
Does that make sense? I tried explaining this in a previous post but didn't get much feedback. Can something else be destroying these controllers or are they a stand alone kind of thing just related to the monitor and not the rest of the circuitry?

[ROCKET]

Thanks Rocket,
As far as the going out of calibration thing, it's strange because its not just slightly, but inches off by just having the machine on for a while. The monitor is in great shape to the point where when the machines off, I don't see burn in at all and the touch screen seems very secure and in great shape as well. I'm on my third controller and this last one was tested good when I bought it but it too is now sparactically going off calibration and starting to do just what the other two do after just about three weeks of occasional use.
It seems to me that something else is causing these controllers to go bad but I don't know enough about electronics to pinpoint the real issue.
Does that make sense? I tried explaining this in a previous post but didn't get much feedback. Can something else be destroying these controllers or are they a stand alone kind of thing just related to the monitor and not the rest of the circuitry?

OK to start I am home from hosp. just had my knee cleaned out again . not replaced as the other one.

as far as touch screen calibration -I am going to tell a story  >>BOYS & GIRLS <<  LOL

When any time a machine is moved bumped hard --door closed hard etc --RECALIBRATE THE TOUCH SCREEN  !!

now the touch screen is totally seperate from the CRT or LCD it may be attached --but that is it ..
so follow the nrmal touch screen calibrations and it should hold them for months --yrs etc .. until a part becomes faulty etc
or machine gets moved or bumped hard etc .

when you calibrate the machine is another source of trouble .. it realy never gets properly caibrated and saved to the machine .

example --my story -- this s 100% true .I have a dozen IGT -I-GAMES all touch screen -- I have 8 countertop arcade games
such as MERIT --JVL--MIDWAY/WILLIAMS  6---POT OF GOLD MACHINES all touch screen --plus reg reel slots in one partcular room ..

I get up one morning power them all up --have my coffee in hand start playing a IGT monster mansion with buttons and touch screen --it works fine .. i lose all credits move to next one in line HEXBREAKER start to play that .. went into the ladder bonus round -- i touch screen nothing works ??? i said nuts the touch screen  sh@t the bed .. !!  opened the door did a recalibration of the Hexbreaker it worked fine ..

then start playing it again and went to use auto stop --on touch screen --it does not respond at all .. i said nuts ..
i then looked down on the floor and said no it cant be that simple ???

I had bear feet on carpet .. I went to every game in that particular game room and tried the touch screens
 THEY ALL WORKED FINE IN BEAR FEET ON CARPET !!I GO BACK TO HEXBREAKER AND IT DOES NOT WORK ON TOUCH SCREEN .. SO I PLACED MY HAND N THE CHROME DOOR !!!

THE MACHINE PLAYS PERFECT --NEVER SKIPPED A TOUCH OF THE SCREEN !!

SO LESSON HERE IS WERE ALL MY MACHINES PROPERLY GROUNDED ??  YES THEY ALL HAVE 3-PRONG AC PLUGS GOING TO SURGE SUPPRESOR THAT HAS A LIGHT --THAT EVEN SAYS THE OUTET IS GROUNDED ..

all machines in that room worked fine in bear feet on carpet even plugged into diff surge strips .
but the HEX BREAKER unless i held the door it would not respond ??


placed shoes on my feet the machine works perfect .. never a problem .. checked all the inside grounds of the Hexbreaker they are all intact ..

but I calibrated it with bear feet on carpet --it was off a 1/4 inch to the touch . so I recalibrated the machine with shoes on and holding the chrome door .. never a problem again ..

SO LESSON TO BE LEARNED HERE ?? CHECK ALL GROUNDS INSIDE AND OUT OF MACHINE MAKE NEW ONES IF NEEDED ?

TRY HOLDING MACHINE WHEN YOUR PROBLEM HAPPENS ?? SEE IF THE TOUCH OF THERE HAND MAKES MACHINE COME TO LIFE ??

DONT PLAY IN BEAR FEET LOL ON A CARPETTED FLOOR AND HAVE OUTETS ALL CHECKED FOR GROUNDS

PLUS  MANY GUYS & GALS I SEE CUT THE GROUND OFF MANY GAMING PLUGS BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE A ADAPTER FOR THE WALL OUTLET ETC

BUY A SURGE SUPPRESOR THAT INDCATES THAT THE WALL OR FLOOR PLUG IS IN FACT GROUNDED
 
PLUS IN MY GAME ROOM I GROUND EACH MACHINE TO EACH OTHER ..

 BY A NO.10 SIZE WIRE  TO BACK OF CABINET IF A METAL CABINET OR IN WOOD CABINETS I GO DIRECTLY TO THE BELLY PAN WHERE THE HOPPER SLIDES

SO ANY PROGRESSIVE DISPLAYS --I KNOW ARE GROUNDED EQUALLY  

see if any of that info helps solve the problem ??

Rocket   out for the day lol

[kforeman]

   what ROCKET said   

put one hand on the chrome player panel and use the other on the touch screen, seems to be more of an issue with IGT than other manufacturers.  i was told once that a bad ballast can cause touch screen issues as well.  its odd that you've gone through 3 controllers in such a short period of time; i've got games on my casino floor that have had the same controller in them for 4+ years that only need the occasional cleaning and calibrating.

also when calibrating the touch screen make sure you touch precisely on the dots, i've had people hastily touch near the dots then we get complaints that the screen is off.    especially from keno players   


it wont hurt to ground one hand while calibrating with the other either.  i've also had success with some machines when i've calibrated 3 or 4 times in a row
are there any scratches on your touch screen?  i use my flashlight at a sharp angle to see the very small scratches on the touch screens from people wearing rings or arseholes who like to be destructive; they are easier to see with the monitor off.  once it's scratched it's toast, that area of the screen will never work again.

i recommend a new touch screen versus a CRT or LCD replacement, if you can find one it shouldn't be too pricey

[SilverFerret]

I'm sure what Rocket said and what you (Kforeman) say is true in some cases but it's not that it just goes out of calibration, but it goes way out sometimes like 6-8 inches. Just last night it went off so I did a calibration test and it was on calibration in the bottom right hand corner and as I ran my finger diagonaly towards the top left corner it became increasingly farther off calibration to the point where my finger was in the top left corner and the little dotted line wasn't even to the middle of the screen yet. What was odd was that the dotted test line wouldn't go past halfway no matter where I put finger on the screen and it was like there was a dividing line that it wouldn't cross that ran from the bottom left to the top right.
Now that I'm on my third one, and it is now doing exactly what the other two are doing, I'm convinced that their is something causing this issue... obviously.
If the thing that Rocket and others say are the cause then why doesn't it happen when I put a new controller in right away? It always seems to start after about three weeks of minimal use.
I'm ready to pull my hair out because its embarrasing everytime a friend comes over and wants to play and I have to continually recalibrate the machine. The only way (once it goes off calibration) to recalibrate is by turning the machine off and then back on then recalibrating the machine. If I don't and recalibrate it, it will make it worse for some reason.
I'm confused but thankful that you guys are helping with whatever info you have.
Thanks again, Jim

[kforeman]

last night it went off so I did a calibration test and it was on calibration in the bottom right hand corner and as I ran my finger diagonaly towards the top left corner it became increasingly farther off calibration to the point where my finger was in the top left corner and the little dotted line wasn't even to the middle of the screen yet. What was odd was that the dotted test line wouldn't go past halfway no matter where I put finger on the screen and it was like there was a dividing line that it wouldn't cross that ran from the bottom left to the top right.

this little tidbit of info makes me wonder if the wires on the touch screen itself have been damaged.  if you remove all of the tape off of the touch screen edges you will see that there are some very small wires that connect at several spots around the perimeter of the screen.  if one or more of these wires lose connection or are broken down the line somewhere you will lose the area of the screen the wire is connected to.   

are you using the newer flash programmed controllers or the older eprom based version?  i have seen similar issues to what you describe from a bad controller but it is very rare; for you to get 3 controllers in a row with the same issue is against all odds.

the touch screen controller is a netplex device and i can tell you from 8+ years techin in an IGT dominated casino that one bad netplex device can really screw with other netplex devices.  also on netplex in your game is the bill acceptor and printer, if you can swap them with another game maybe the issue will follow.  the mpu has the final control on the netplex so that is a possibility as well.

[SilverFerret]

It's the old style controller.
If it's a broken wire it would seem that it wouldn't be tempararily corrected by turning the machine off and back on and recalibrating but I'm not a technician so maybe so.
On my second controller, I replaced 6 capacitors, that from referencing some repair logs seemed to be the issue, and low and behold the controller worked great... for about three weeks before these issues cropped up again.
IMO something is jacking up these controllers but it may be a needle in an IGT haystack.
Jim

[ROCKET]

last night it went off so I did a calibration test and it was on calibration in the bottom right hand corner and as I ran my finger diagonaly towards the top left corner it became increasingly farther off calibration to the point where my finger was in the top left corner and the little dotted line wasn't even to the middle of the screen yet. What was odd was that the dotted test line wouldn't go past halfway no matter where I put finger on the screen and it was like there was a dividing line that it wouldn't cross that ran from the bottom left to the top right.

this little tidbit of info makes me wonder if the wires on the touch screen itself have been damaged.  if you remove all of the tape off of the touch screen edges you will see that there are some very small wires that connect at several spots around the perimeter of the screen.  if one or more of these wires lose connection or are broken down the line somewhere you will lose the area of the screen the wire is connected to.  

are you using the newer flash programmed controllers or the older eprom based version?  i have seen similar issues to what you describe from a bad controller but it is very rare; for you to get 3 controllers in a row with the same issue is against all odds.

the touch screen controller is a netplex device and i can tell you from 8+ years techin in an IGT dominated casino that one bad netplex device can really screw with other netplex devices.  also on netplex in your game is the bill acceptor and printer, if you can swap them with another game maybe the issue will follow.  the mpu has the final control on the netplex so that is a possibility as well.

well you took the words out of my mouth .. but in my first post i did address this problem .
BY SAYING REMOVE TOUCH SCREEN AND REPLACE --THIS WOULD OBVIOUSY INCLUDE INSPECTING THE WIRES OR MEMBRANE OF THE TOUCH SCREEN ..

I agree the touch screen itself is bad .. now do you know if you have a real >>GLASS<< touch screen ??
or do you have the LEXAN PLASTIC/GLASS touch screen ??

as KFOREMAN  MENTIONED . take off the black tae around entire T/S  see if it has wires ??
if it has wires its the old style GLASS MODEL --IF IT HAS A MEMBRANE AROUND THE T/S ITS THE NEWER TYPE
THAT I HATE WITH A PASSION ..they suck in my opinion lol

if its the glass and wire type --isolate the wires from touching each other and re-tape and retry ??

if its the newer style with the membraine around the screen that looks like a printed circut ??
you most likely have a torn spot somewhere and the touch screen is junk ..

if you need pictures to tell the difference of the two types used .. JUST ASK I WILL POST PICTURES IF NEEDED .

=====================================================================
Also for giggles and laughs --try one of your suspected dead controllers again and see if you can calibrate the screen ??
if you can ??>>>>>>then you know that all along it was never the controller but the screen itself .

also follow the correct directions on recalibration !!! if you start sliding your finger around the glass when starting off you will throw off the calibration from the get go ..

 NEVER TOUCH >>> a area that does not have a >>X<<< or a  >>>DOT<<< FOR CALIBRATION PURPOSES.
that tosses the controller off from the get go ..


IF  TOUCH POINTS DONT APPEAR ON SCREEN BEING A CRT OR LCD -- HIT THE RECALIBRATE BUTTON OVER AND OVER IT WILL FINALLY BRING YOUR X'S OR DOT'S INTO VIEW ..SO YOU CAN CALIBRATE --GIVEN THE TOUCH SCREEN IS IN WORKING ORDER ..

but --3-controllers in a few weeks I have never seen go bad in my 20 years of wokring on touch screens

let us know what you find -- have you done a autopsy on the first bad controller to see if its BURNED INSIDE ??

also if you have any other arcade games such as MERIT -JVL-MIDWAY -ETC TRY THE CONTROLLERS ON THOSE GAMES TO SEE IF THEY WORK ??

LAST PART OF ADVISE IS 3M CONTROLLERS RUN ON 12 VOLT DC ----- CHECK THE VOLTAGE AT THE CONTROLLER WIRES

POWER GOING IN IT SHOULD BE A ORANGE COLOR WIRE.. GREEN IS GROUND . THAT SHOULD HAVE 12 VOLTS DC WHEN MACHINE IS ON . IF ITS  13-14-15 VOLTS DC  THEN YES YOU WILL BLOW CONTROLLERS ..


>>ELO TOUCH SCREENS << CONTROLLERS RUN ON 5 VOLT DC

[SilverFerret]

Here's some pics of my monitor and touchscreen.
Questions will follow.

[SilverFerret]

More pics

[SilverFerret]

More pics.

[SilverFerret]

Let me say first off... I am in no way questioning anybodies technical knowledge, because I have none. I just have to machine that doesn't work correctly and questions pop into my head as I read the suggestions from the great people who are willingly offering their help.
I've posted the pics to hopefully answer some of the questions about what type of T/S it is. I've only seen this one up close so I don't know the differences between one or the other and can't confidently answer your questions.
As for the other controllers, they are not dead but all now have the same issues as now what my third one does. They can be calibrated and from a short time of play or from sitting idle will go off calibration (could be 5 minutes or 5 hours). Typically I'll have to turn the machine off and back on then go through the calibration process to get it to calibrate correctly. But then shortly after, it off again.
Ultimately a pressing question which in my mind refutes the T/S itself idea is that a good T/S controller seems to last a few weeks before having issues. If the T/S itself were damaged... wouldn't that cause issues right away?

"LAST PART OF ADVISE IS 3M CONTROLLERS RUN ON 12 VOLT DC ----- CHECK THE VOLTAGE AT THE CONTROLLER WIRES

POWER GOING IN IT SHOULD BE A ORANGE COLOR WIRE.. GREEN IS GROUND . THAT SHOULD HAVE 12 VOLTS DC WHEN MACHINE IS ON . IF ITS  13-14-15 VOLTS DC  THEN YES YOU WILL BLOW CONTROLLERS .."

This sounds quite possible but I wouldn't know how to test for this. Could someone email me a detailed procedure of how to test for this? I will gladly attempt it and report back with my findings. It sounds simple but how can you do this with the monitor in the machine?
I hope my ramblings are making some sense and the pics help explain some things.
In pic #5 it shows a cut wire at the bottom of the monitor housing which I'm pretty sure is the ground which has been rerouted and shown in pic #3 which goes behind the T/S controller board and is anchored by one of the four screws that hold the T/S contoller board to the monitor housing. Is this an issue?
Thanks for all your help and experience, Jim

[ROCKET]

AHH PICTURES ARE WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS

we were led to believe you had the reg 3m ivory box controller

probably by me lol


thats a IGT CONTROLLER


first check all the nylon /plastic /isolators where it is screwed on onto frame if used ??


then check for wires burnt or touching other wires ..

you need to buy a 9.99 multi -voltmeter at WAL -MART

then test board were obvious grounds are --if they are grounded .. ??
then recalibrate the machine holding the chrome door as i mentioned with shoes on .

post a few pictures >>close ups of the old controllers --on a computer 15-inch or larger lcd screen.

 you can pick up a burn trace in a close up picture ---alot faster than the naked eye or with magnifying glass

the home pc --lcd display is a great tool to use along with your digital camera --you can see trace burns or caps that have exploded looking at the picture vs looking at the board manually ..

also take pictures of the touch screen for scrapes --knicks -invisble cracks to naked eye ..put the pictures on your home pc and vew them .

the black tape that goes all around monitor remove if all else fails !!
 and see if any if those wires are broken in your case red green white orange and black ..be very carefull when removing tape --you can ripp a wire right off the screen --a household hair dryer works great to heat up tape to soften it for removal

then report back ...

[Tilt]

Jim,

As I'm sure you're aware you have an older style touch screen controller.  Old or new though, both operate off of the 13V side of your DC power supply.  You can measure the 13VDC PS output at a few different places.  PM me if you need some schematics.  13VDC +/- 1V is a normal reading and won't harm anything.

[ROCKET]

 


SILVERFERRET ,
DO YOU HAVE A GAME KING MANUAL ??

if you dont drop me a PM with your email address and i will send you one >> PDF FILE
that will give you all the answers to any question you have ??

plus gives troubleshooting tips on every part of machine  etc

but you still need to buy that 9.99 or less multimeter at Wal Mart

to do voltage testing and continuity testing --ground testing
most multi meters have the AC current and DC current on them  with two
16-inch pigtail probes ..

the yellow colored one you see for 2.99 at times I USE THAT ONE DAILY

 The yellow colored one is on  HARBOR FREIGHT CATOLOG
or online web site is just fine!!

testing it next to a 50.00 ---100.00 tester of other brands
 the readings are the same .

any other questions feel free to ask --no matter how silly you think they are ??

Rocket

[SilverFerret]

Ok, here's an update...
I moved a ground wire and my problem went away for a couple of weeks and is now back just the same as in my previous posts. I have a multimeter now and if someone in the know could tip me off on the places and things to test for, I could get to doing that with confidence. Thanks for all the help, Jim