PE+ Slant Double Bonus- Not enough Voltage to Large Buttons

[katilicous]

Hi there-

Picked up my first video poker machine on an auction.  PE+ Slant Double Bonus Poker and it has two problems I am a little stuck on.
The coin acceptor doesn't keep a coin or add credits.
The large buttons aren't working so I can't run through the self tests. 
Ill explain the button problem in hopes that someone may have experience in this area and will worry about credits after.  All advice is greatly appreciated.
The large buttons are only getting 2.33V instead of the 8-10V they should be getting.
Hooking up a 9 V battery to ground and DEAL /DRAW center gives a 1 indicator on the BILL ENAB and did not have any effect on DEAL/ DRAW.
I'm stumped and don't have any experience with these machines but to me it also looks as though there may be a small chip missing on the motherboard.  I can't run through the self tests because the DEAL DRAW isn't working so I am stuck there.
I took pics of the board if that helps and I also checked the wiring on the buttons with the wiring schematic I found on the PE+ slant machine for the buttons and they are all OK.

Thanks in advance.

[Jim]

Don't understand what you are doing with the battery?  the switch loops transfer a GROUND  through them. two separate loops are involved. 1= hold button loop, 2= all the other buttons. yes, you will read +vb (8-10vdc) on all the switches normally open contact. when you put the ground on that contact(by pushing the button) you drop that voltage across the resistor pack that goes into the optoisolators, thereby signaling the processor that the switch has been pushed. the wiring for the loop you are having problems with is: ground from the key reset switch (green wire) is presented to the common contact of the deal/draw switch thru the normally closed contacts of the test switch. from the n/c contact of the deal/draw to the common contact of the bet max switch, from the n/c contact of the bet max switch to the common contact of the bet 1 switch from the n/c/ contact of the bet 1 switch to the common of the cashout switch from the n/c contact of the cashout switch to the common switch of the change switch, there the loop ends.

could be something miswired keeping +vb pulled down,  could be some diodes shorted in the input matrix for all those switches, or it could be +vb is bad.

Jim

[knagl]

Sounds like you have a few different issues going on.  Let's start one-by-one.

As Jim said, you don't need voltage at the buttons, and I would not use a battery to introduce voltage to the wiring.

The Self Test button is what is used to page through the options.  Deal/draw is used to change some options, sometimes, but is not needed to get through the self test pages.

When you press the self test button once, does it bring you to the Self Test Inputs screen?  If so, try all of the buttons, one at a time, and let us know which ones are working (changes the 0 to a 1 in the self test screen), and which ones aren't, and we'll go from there.  Once we get the buttons working, we can deal with the coin acceptance issue.

[katilicous]

Thanks for all of your help. 
Jim- I don't think I knew where to start and the  battery seemed like a good idea (i have also been wrong before)lol.
OK the hold buttons are all registering 1 properly.
The 2nd loop all 0.
I already replaced the micro switches to rule that out.
The wiring you explained I am a bit confused on the following
"ground from the key reset switch (green wire) is presented to the common contact of the deal/draw switch thru the normally closed contacts of the test switch"
I don't understand the presented to and thru wording.  Which is first?
Right now everything after the deal/draw is correct in your list.
There is a blank spot on the board where it looks like a chip is missing in space U21.  Could that be the problem?  I am attaching a picture of the board just in case and can take pics of the wiring also if it helps.
Thanks again to both. I would be lost for sure without the help.

[knagl]

When you say, "the second loop all 0", what are you saying?

Which specific buttons are working, and which specific buttons and/or switches are currently not working?

U21 being empty is just fine.  Stolistic could tell you what that's for, but I know it's not necessary.  In fact, looking at a picture of one board, there's not even a socket there.

[Jim]

sorry for the confusion!   basically  the ground for the hold buttons (loop 1)  and the other buttons (loop 2)  is one in the same.  so it appears that you are not getting the ground to the deal/ draw switch.  that ground comes from the connector J3 on the motherboard, should have two wires on it , a yellow/black and a yellow/green. the yellow /green goes to J200 and then into the deal/draw switch. If you don't have a way to check continuity, then run a jumper from the N/C contact of the #2 hold switch (there shouldn't be anything connected to it) to the common contact of the deal/ draw switch. this should work.

U-21 is used for a KENO pen

Jim

[katilicous]

I have a continuity tester and you'll have to excuse my inexperience here but it picks up continuity with every wire I touch it to I believe  because it is a ground wire.
Can you tell me how to check continuity here? I'm still learning a bit of elemental electrical.
thnks

[katilicous]

knagl- I was referring to Jim's loops, sorry bout that.
hold buttons all work
deal/draw  bet one  bet max  cash  change buttons don't work.
thnks

[Jim]

point to point tests.  meter set on lowest ohm range, on older model Simpson's we had to short the probes together to zero the meter, today's' meter do it automatically, but it doesn't hurt to due it ,that will establish the reading that is zero for your meter. my meter does not read zero ohms when the probes are shorted together, it reads 00.8 ohms, so when I check a wire and it reads 00.8 ohms I know the wire is good.  so when you establish what your true reading is then you can start .  all resistance or continuity checks are made with the power off. find the key reset switch, on a slanttop under the arm rest, on the inside of the machine on that switch there should be two contacts, put one probe on the common contact of the deal/draw switch and the other to one of the two contacts of the key switch, you should read your zero number on the meter, if not on that contact then the other, if you get the reading then the connection from the key switch to the deal/draw switch is good.

Jim 

[katilicous]

"then run a jumper from the N/C contact of the #2 hold switch (there shouldn't be anything connected to it) to the common contact of the deal/ draw switch. this should work."
There is something connected to my N/C contact of the #2 hold switch.

When I did the continuity test with the multimeter the way you suggested I came back with no continuity on both leads.



I am attaching some pictures, don't know if they will help.  If not, which would?

[Jim]

I am using the S+,PE+ manual for my reference, it shows nothing connected to the n/c contact of hold #2. Since you have the schematic for the slant top then if you look at it, see if one of the switches only has two wires connected to it.  that switch should be the end of the series circuit . If not you should be able to use one of the wires that go to the ground post on all the switches. (they are connected to ground) remove the common contact wire from the deal /draw switch and somehow connect that ground to the common contact of the deal/draw switch. this should work. as you look at the schematic drawing,all the switches are shown with the switch making a inner connection from the COMMON contact to the N/C contact, when the plunger on the switch is depressed it moves the connection from the N/C contact to the N/O contact, when released the spring action moves the connection back to the N/C contact.  all those lines that are shown on the schematic are actually the wires that  go from point to point.  the numbers on the lines are the wire color. the numbers are the same as the resistor color code.  e.g. a line that has these numbers on it : 55  22 =  solid green wire   22 gauge,  45   22=  yellow with a green tracer on it   22  gauge.  with this information you should be able to trace every wire in that machine and know if you are getting continuity from point to point.
Hope this helps

Jim

[knagl]

I am using the S+,PE+ manual for my reference, it shows nothing connected to the n/c contact of hold #2.

That's different from my bartop PE+ machines.  No idea how the slant top is wired, but based on the post above, it's likely like my machine.  Here's the wiring for my hold buttons on the bartop PE+:

You'll notice in my notes here that the wire from the previous NC blade goes to the C blade of the next switch, every time -- that makes the series.

Hold 1:
C = Yellow/Purple Stripe
NO = White-ish or yellow (the color is fading on mine -- tough to tell)
NC = Gray

Hold 2:
C= Gray
NO = White/Purple Stripe
NC = Gray/Purple Stripe

Hold 3:
C = Gray/Purple Stripe
NO = Yellow/Red Stripe
NC = Gray/Dark Blue Stripe

Hold 4:
C = Gray/Dark Blue Stripe
NO = White/Brown Stripe  (or this may just be a whiteish-brown wire - my notes are scrawled)
NC = Gray/Yellow Stripe

Hold 5:
C = Gray/Yellow Stripe
NO = White/Black Stripe
NC = [open] (nothing connected to this -- it's the end of the series)

katilicous: If your hold buttons are all working, don't disconnect any of those wires.  I'll go look at the other buttons on my machine and post back with the wiring for them.

[knagl]

Okay, here's the remaining wiring on my machine.  Based on the wiring, it looks like the order is (and this matches the order in the self-test input screen) Deal/Draw, Bet 5 ("Bet Max"), Bet 1 ("Play Credit"), Cash Out, Change Request.

Deal/Draw:
C = Yellow/Green Stripe
NO = Yellow/Black Stripe
NC = Gray/Orange Stripe

Bet 5 (Max):
C = Gray/Orange Stripe
NO = Yellow/Brown Stripe
NC = Gray/Red Stripe

Bet 1 (Play Credit):
C = Gray/Red Stripe
NO = Yellow/Red Stripe
NC = Gray/Brown Stripe

Cash Out:
C = Gray/Brown Stripe
NO = Yellow/Orange Stripe
NC = Gray/Black Stripe

Change Request (the red "Change" or "Service" button a player would use to call an attendant):
C = Gray/Black Stripe
NO = Yellow/Blue Stripe
NC = [open] (nothing connected to this -- it's the end of the series)

(For what it's worth, I had the wires for the change button reversed on my machine (Yellow/Blue going to C, and Gray/Black going to NO), and it works fine, but likely because it's at the end of the series.  I see now that they're reversed, and have what I believe to be the "correct" wiring listed above.)


So... since Deal/Draw is the first button in the series, start by getting that one to work, and then move on to the next one in the series.  The Self-Test Input screen (you posted a picture of) will be your friend for testing.  I'd start by bringing up that screen, and then simply jumpering the Yellow/Green Stripe and Yellow/Black Stripe wires together (use both ends of a single test probe, or hell, a paperclip) to make sure that the button registers on the self-test screen (the "DEAL" 0 should change to a 1).  If so, hook it up to the switch, paying careful attention to the markings on the switch that you're connecting the right wires to the right blades.

Good luck!

[Jim]

all I am trying to do is get a ground to the common contact of the deal/ draw switch, with a ground there , the switch loop should work.  In the bottom picture of the switches there is a wire(green with a yellow tracer) that goes from each of the first three switches.  it is not connected to any micro switch, it is not connected to any lamps, I guess it is a static ground circuit, it goes to a metal post that is embedded in the plastic  mold of the body of the switch.IT IS THIS WIRE I WANT TO be REMOVED AND USED AS A TEMPORARY GROUND TO TEST THE DEAL/DRAW LOOP. no other wires have to be disconnected, it will not affect the hold button loop. Hopefully it will tell us if the other switches will work.

 according to your layout, hold button #5 is the switch that has the open contact (N/C). there should be a ground available here as well.  

[knagl]

Yeah, those green ground wires do nothing they way that they're designed.  As you said, they go into a metal post that is mounted in the plastic switch.  Since plastic doesn't conduct electricity, I've always wondered why they even bothered with them (do you know?).

Looking closer at the picture that kat posted, her hold 5 button also has only two wires going to it, which matches my machine.

[katilicous]

You guys rock, honestly thanks for all your effort trying to help me here.

Jim- still not working with the method you suggested.  No response there.
I checked all the wiring and it all seems to be hooked up right.  I have the same manual as you and my button wiring matches those of knagl (thnks)

On my self test button page I have a blank line with a 1, is that a problem indicator possibly?

In the event that it might help, here are a few other shots I have from the inside.

Thanks

[knagl]

On my self test button page I have a blank line with a 1, is that a problem indicator possibly?

I don't think so.  I just tried a couple of different gamesets in MAME and some of them have a 1 next to the line below the Bill Validator, and some of them a 0.  Not sure what that's an indication of, but each of those gamesets still worked.


Next thing that I'd do in your shoes is to trace the wiring from the Deal/Draw switch back to the motherboard.  Especially look for any areas where the wiring may be getting or has in the past gotten pinched near the hinge from the door opening and closing.  Make sure that the plug for that run of wires is seated correctly -- you may wish to unplug and replug it to be sure.  Then, try the switches again in the self test screen.

Following that, I'd try disconnecting the Yellow/Green Stripe and Yellow/Black Stripe wires from the Deal/Draw cherry switch and shorting them together.  If the wiring is working correctly, you'll get a 1 for the Deal/Draw switch on the self test screen (by shorting those wires together, you're eliminating the possible issue of a bad cherry switch).

If you still can't get a signal from the wires, I guess I'd next try a different MPU board -- if your existing board is damaged, it's possible that it wouldn't register switches.  Following that, the motherboard.  Following that, replace the wire harness.

[katilicous]

Thanks for the advice, I will try it out as soon as I get outside to the garage.  Any chance it could be the power supply?  My bf thinks that could be the problem.

[Jim]

I doubt it is the power supply. If you are sure that you did put a ground on the common contact of the deal/ draw switch and nothing happened, then you have other problems. compare the VOLTAGE READINGS  between the hold switches and the other switches. we are going to measure +vb . set your meter to read a dc voltage. then put the black probe to ground (any metal part of the chassis) and the red probe to the N/O contact of any hold switch. you should read 8/10 volts dc . then do the same for the deal/draw switch. be careful not to short out anything.

does the key switch change to a 1 when you activate it?   the black wire coming out of the scotchlock connector seems to be cut ? 
does the self test switch change to a 1 when you push it ?

the yellow/ green wire from the common contact of the deal/ draw switch, when you test it for continuity to ground ,what is the reading?

 

[knagl]

does the self test switch change to a 1 when you push it ?

She wouldn't be able to get to the self test input screen if it wasn't working.   

I agree with Jim -- I don't think this is a power supply issue in the least.

[katilicous]

knagl- I haven't gotten out to try what you suggested

Next thing that I'd do in your shoes is to trace the wiring from the Deal/Draw switch back to the motherboard.  Especially look for any areas where the wiring may be getting or has in the past gotten pinc hed near the hinge from the door opening and closing.  Make sure that the plug for that run of wires is seated correctly -- you may wish to unplug and replug it to be sure.  Then, try the switches again in the self test screen.

Following that, I'd try disconnecting the Yellow/Green Stripe and Yellow/Black Stripe wires from the Deal/Draw cherry switch and shorting them together.  If the wiring is working correctly, you'll get a 1 for the Deal/Draw switch on the self test screen (by shorting those wires together, you're eliminating the possible issue of a bad cherry switch).

because I got the Chucky Cheese cold from my friend's kids bday party. I will get out there tomorrow for sure.

Jim-
compare the VOLTAGE READINGS  between the hold switches and the other switches. we are going to measure +vb . set your meter to read a dc voltage. then put the black probe to ground (any metal part of the chassis) and the red probe to the N/O contact of any hold switch. you should read 8/10 volts dc . then do the same for the deal/draw switch. be careful not to short out anything.
I am getting 9.8V  on hold  switches and 2.33V on deal/draw switch

does the key switch change to a 1 when you activate it?   the black wire coming out of the scotchlock connector seems to be cut ?
does the self test switch change to a 1 when you push it ?

Key switch does change to 1 when I activate it.  The black wire is cut and I don't know why or what that does for me.  I thought that it looked rigged a bit. And self test does change to 1 also.

the yellow/ green wire from the common contact of the deal/ draw switch, when you test it for continuity to ground ,what is the reading?
I got a 1 when I tested it or rather it didn't change and my machine, like yours registers 0 at another number (in my case .4ohms, I think you said yours was .8ohms)

thanks.


 

[katilicous]

I got out there and have a correction to my last post and also a clarification or two.
Jim-
does the self test switch change to a 1 when you push it ?
When I push the self test switch it exits the button test screen to an output selector screen and I don't see whether it changes from 0 to 1

the yellow/ green wire from the common contact of the deal/ draw switch, when you test it for continuity to ground ,what is the reading?
My last answer may have been confusing.  I do not have continuity on this connection.

Knagl-
Next thing that I'd do in your shoes is to trace the wiring from the Deal/Draw switch back to the motherboard.  Especially look for any areas where the wiring may be getting or has in the past gotten pinc hed near the hinge from the door opening and closing.  Make sure that the plug for that run of wires is seated correctly -- you may wish to unplug and replug it to be sure.  Then, try the switches again in the self test screen.

Following that, I'd try disconnecting the Yellow/Green Stripe and Yellow/Black Stripe wires from the Deal/Draw cherry switch and shorting them together.  If the wiring is working correctly, you'll get a 1 for the Deal/Draw switch on the self test screen (by shorting those wires together, you're eliminating the possible issue of a bad cherry switch).

Have traced wiring back to the motherboard and looks in good order.  Have un and reseated the plug several times and still no dice.
Tried the yellow/ Green Stripe and Yellow/Black Stripe short and no change.

What is a cherry switch?  I replaced all of the microswitches, are cherry switches the same?  I liked the guy who called them cheery switches, made it seem like the machine would work sooner for some reason.

The blinking lights on the bell housing/ attendant alarm thing are on constantly whether the lid is open or closed.  Don't know if that has anything to do with anything.
You guys are amazing and you may hear that several thousand more times from me and I mean it each time.  Thank you.

Here is a zoom of the scotchlock connector bc the one I uploaded was optimized.

[brichter]

This is a cherry switch:

[Jim]

I am beginning to understand why that machine ended up in a auction--what a surprise.anyway  somethings to help narrow down the problem. 
when you are testing the voltage on the hold buttons (9.8vdc)  what does it drop to when you push the button?
what is the resistance of the n/o contacts of the holds buttons?
what is the resistance of the n/o contacts of the deal/draw button and its other loop switches?
 not having a ground at the common contact of the deal/draw switch is a concern but not a great issue at this time. look at page136 of the S+,PE+ manual you can follow the wire from the deal switch to the motherboard, to the jackpot reset key switch and finally to its orgin the common leg of the 7vac transformer.some where the wire is open.
looking on page 86 you will find a simple circuit of the deal switch.  as you look at all the switches you will see the same circuitry is used on all. RP4 (resistor pack 4 510 ohms ,and ILQ1  some use RP3 and a different ILQ1.  and then you have the matrix diodes that are connected to the RP. these can be tested as well. using the ohms scale , set to X20k, black band on diode is the cathode, other side is the anode.  black probe on the cathode, red on anode, observe readings, reverse leads, observe readings. one should be open, the other around 15k ohms. you will see what I mean.

Jim

p.s.  remember to test for resistance WITH THE POWER OFF  unplug from the wall.     

[knagl]

What is a cherry switch?  I replaced all of the microswitches, are cherry switches the same?  I liked the guy who called them cheery switches, made it seem like the machine would work sooner for some reason.

This is a cherry switch, too:



Yes, the micro-switches are what I was referring to as a cherry switch.  Some folks only consider the larger switches (like brichter posted) to be cherry switches, but from the information I've found, the micro switches qualify, too.  My apologies if I confused things by using that term.  I also chuckle at people who call them "cheery" switches, unless their cherry switches are really happy.   

The blinking lights on the bell housing/ attendant alarm thing are on constantly whether the lid is open or closed.  Don't know if that has anything to do with anything.

Are you talking about the candle of the machine (the "light tower" that has two or possibly three segments with lights on the top of the machine)?  The upper light is the "change" (or "service") light and will come on steady if you press the Change button on the player button panel.  The lower light indicates various status messages like "door open" and/or "door recently closed" and it's pretty normal if that lower segment is flashing, until a paid game is played and completed.  There isn't a bell in the candle. 


I'm beginning to suspect that your MPU (main processor board) might be flaky, but Jim would be the expert in that department.  I don't do board-level repairs at all -- I just know if a board works or not, and if it doesn't, I replace it.    I'd be more than happy to loan you a board to try a different one for the purpose of testing, before you go and spend money on a replacement board.  (I'd like it back at some point, though.)  Let me know if you'd like to do that.