S+ Lower candle fast flash, "0" in "Coins Paid" after clear????

[mkd3b]

And to think I passed up on the chance of all this fun your having with those machines.  Im still upset with my self for not rescueing some of those machines too.  Got some nice stools though. Well I glad to hear that one was and easy fix.   Let me know when you want me to take it off your hands from frustration.   

[rilaw]

Just noticed you used a picture of a 16Mhz MPU Do you have a 16Mhz MPU or 10Mhz. Could be a chip speed issue

Good point. He never said what speed board he has. Rilaw, if you have a 16MHz board, you should also check to be sure that you're running a 16MHz SP chip in addition to checking the speed of the chips.

All 10MHz boards, sry....  The ebay link was just a quick ref..

[coorslight115]

What chips are you using? just so we know....

[rilaw]

And to think I passed up on the chance of all this fun your having with those machines.  Im still upset with my self for not rescueing some of those machines too.  Got some nice stools though. Well I glad to hear that one was and easy fix.   Let me know when you want me to take it off your hands from frustration.  

Actually four were mostly "easy fixes" (2 S+, 1 Wms "X Factor", 1 Sigma "Treasure Wheel")  I also just cleared the ram on a Bally Gamemaker, seems to work, just has a few issues I will have to address (Its next on my list, lol)  I have a nice VLC I may be dumping   AKA Boat Anchor  I like the stools too, no idea why I took six though, lol  All lined up in my basement at the moment...

[rilaw]

What chips are you using? just so we know....

If you mean the "Clear chips", its a set I bought from a member here.  They worked perfect in two machines..  Ram clear and BV chip

[coorslight115]

What chips are you using? just so we know....

If you mean the "Clear chips", its a set I bought from a member here.  They worked perfect in two machines..  Ram clear and BV chip

No...Sp and SS chip numbers

[poppo]

I would try these steps in order:

Make sure all harness connections to the motherboard and on the door, etc. are firmly seated and in good condition.
Make sure the infamous power harness connection to the motherboard is not burned or oxidized.
Then:
Swap SP and SS chips for known good ones from another game (theme doesn't matter) and see if you can clear the errors (without using a clear chip).
If that doesn't work, try a full clear and use the same known good replacement SP and SS chips. (Testing to see if your SP or SS chip(s) is/are damaged.)

If unsuccessful, swap the MPU board with a known good unit and try again.
If unsuccessful, swap BOTH the motherboard and the MPU boards with known good units.

I would probably try putting the questionable MPUs in a good machine first. If these other machines have multiple problems, putting in a known good MPU (and still not have it work)  may not rule out the MPU still being bad.

[rilaw]

****************SOLVED********************     

Looks like I have a few MPU boards with issues.  What are the chances I try three untested boards in this thing and they all did not work??  Well, I'm going to try switching chips and see if it was just the chip, then I have to dig through the rest of my boards to see whats good and whats not. 

Thank You again to all that threw in their vast knowledge!      

Now I will look into the DOA BV and then see who has the upper glass, coin head, and hopper disc.....

[rilaw]

*****Spoke to soon****

OK, I just tried six, count um, six other boards.  I installed a battery on each, cleared with my 512 Clear chip, blah blah...  Back to square one    There is no way all these boards are bad.   I am starting to think the clear chip is the culprit?  If i put any of these boards in my working S+, same result..."0" in "coins paid" and fast lower candle flash.  This happened on both of the non-working S+'s....  

Also....I tried this on one board....replaced the battery and did not use the clear chip.... I cleared all the codes and ended up with the same result as if I had used the clear chip????

[poppo]

*****Spoke to soon****

OK, I just tried six, count um, six other boards.  I installed a battery on each, cleared with my 512 Clear chip, blah blah...  Back to square one    There is no way all these boards are bad.   I am starting to think the clear chip is the culprit?  If i put any of these boards in my working S+, same result..."0" in "coins paid" and fast lower candle flash.  This happened on both of the non-working S+'s....  

Ok, before someone else says it - put that clear chip away! The only time you should need it is if you get stuck in a 61 loop.

That said, put a known good game and reel chip in one of the boards and try it in the good machine. You should get a few standard errors (65_x etc.) and then it should work. Oh, BTW are you sure the EPROM jumpers are in the right position for the size chips you are using? Just compare them to the board that works.

[knagl]

OK, I just tried six, count um, six other boards.  I installed a battery on each, cleared with my 512 Clear chip, blah blah...  Back to square one    There is no way all these boards are bad.

To test the boards, use a known working machine, attempt to get each board up and running, and then if the board works label it as good and move on to the next one.  You're going to frustrate yourself if you test boards on a machine that is known to have problems.   

THEN, once you have known good boards, use one in the problem child machine.

[rilaw]

*****Spoke to soon****

OK, I just tried six, count um, six other boards.  I installed a battery on each, cleared with my 512 Clear chip, blah blah...  Back to square one    There is no way all these boards are bad.   I am starting to think the clear chip is the culprit?  If i put any of these boards in my working S+, same result..."0" in "coins paid" and fast lower candle flash.  This happened on both of the non-working S+'s.... 

Ok, before someone else says it - put that clear chip away! The only time you should need it is if you get stuck in a 61 loop.

That said, put a known good game and reel chip in one of the boards and try it in the good machine. You should get a few standard errors (65_x etc.) and then it should work. Oh, BTW are you sure the EPROM jumpers are in the right position for the size chips you are using? Just compare them to the board that works.

Ok, that worked.... Seems the boards aree good, and I have a butt load of bad eeproms??  I just tried a bunch of other chip sets, none seem to work...

[poppo]

Ok, that worked.... Seems the boards aree good, and I have a butt load of bad eeproms??  I just tried a bunch of other chip sets, none seem to work...

Again check the size of the reel eproms. If they are 'backups' they may have been burned to 27C512 chips where the originals are 27C64. So the jumper will need to be in the right spot depending on the chip used. But they could be bad. Someone may have plugged them in backward or something.

[StatFreak]

For the record, standard SP chips are 512k, and standard SS chips are 64k. You can use 512k chips for SS chips as long as the 64k of data are burned at offset 0xC000 (page 7 of 8). No jumper settings need to be changed for this to work. The jumpers would be changed if you had an older 256k SP chip.

[poppo]

The jumpers would be changed if you had an older 256k SP chip.

Maybe that is what I was thinking about. I just recall a thread where someone changed some jumpers because their SET chip instructions told them to, and then it honked something up because the chip size did not match the jumper setting.

Also I've never used the offset method for reel chips. I use the duplicate copy in all banks method. This way I know that no matter what bank is addressed, it will always work. So I was not sure just what affect the reel chip jumper has (if any) vs chip size.

[stayouttadabunker]

"I was not sure just what affect the reel chip jumper has (if any) vs chip size. "

That's actually a very good question you brought up Poppo!

My guess is that is has to do with which legs are going to
get certain power voltages applied to them?
I'll leave it up to the chip experts.
I'm pretty sure the answer could be found if one were to compare
specification sheets between the two devices?>>>

http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2388.pdf

http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2387.pdf

[poppo]

My guess is that is has to do with which legs are going to get certain power voltages applied to them?

On the S+ reel chip, the jumper selects either A14 or +5v going to pin 27 of the ROM/EPROM. On a 2764 (8K) EPROM pin 27 is the PGM pin and not used for addressing and A13 pin 26 is not used on a 2764 chip. On a 27512 (64k) pin 27 is the A14 address pin. If the jumper is set to +5v (and since pin 1 - the A15 line is already tied to +5v) it is in effect 'hardwiring' the addresses to one bank (along with A13). That is why an offset is needed if using a 27512. If the jumper is set to A14, that means the signal may be high or low (I don't know). Since I make copies into all 8 banks when I use a 27512, it does not matter since an 'active' bank would always be selected regardless of the state of A14.

Now, what does this mean?   The only problem I can see is if the chips are 27512 AND the offset method was used to burn them AND the jumper is set to A14 and not +5v. This 'could' cause an empty bank to be selected if A14 is low and not high. But a 2764 factory ROM would work regardless of the jumper position

However, since pin 27 on a 2764 (EPROM) is the PGM pin, I believe the jumper would always set to the +5V position and it was only put there for possible future use if the reel chips got larger and they eventually went to 27256 chips which would use the A14 line.

So, most likely he just has a bunch of bad chips that may have been plugged in backward at some point. Hey, I've even done it.  

[rilaw]

Wow, indepth jumper coverage, lol.  Thanks guys The jumpers seem to be the same on every board I have.  I have about twenty boards.  I took them from a warehouse that was clearing out, there were hundreds stacked on pallets, so I just figured they were slot pulls.  A few still have the security tape across all three eeproms so i doubt these chips were all installed backwards etc.  I wonder if these were all boards with problems, and that's why they were pulled?  Will never know..

[poppo]

Ok, now that we got the board mystery pretty much resolved. Does the machine work with a good board, or does it still have other problems?

[stayouttadabunker]

I'd like to add that casino techs probably never switch those jumpers because
they use the correct sized OEM eprom devices obtained from IGT directly in the first place.
It's us homeowners that like to screw around with these things...

[rilaw]

Ok, now that we got the board mystery pretty much resolved. Does the machine work with a good board, or does it still have other problems?

The machine worked fine (Ignoring dead BV) with a good board with known working chips.

[poppo]

The machine worked fine (Ignoring dead BV) with a good board with known working chips.

Great. You may want to try putting those BV power supplies in a good machine. Another member had replaced his bad one, but the replacement was bad too. So you may have several bad ones. As noted earlier, as long as the BV has power it will at least cycle on power up.

[rilaw]

The machine worked fine (Ignoring dead BV) with a good board with known working chips.

Great. You may want to try putting those BV power supplies in a good machine. Another member had replaced his bad one, but the replacement was bad too. So you may have several bad ones. As noted earlier, as long as the BV has power it will at least cycle on power up.

Until I can get a working MPU into the slot (Without using chips from another good machine), the BV is on the back burner... Thx..  I figured that with the ps...

[rilaw]

**Update**

I spent the day swapping out the chips from every spare board I had into a known good MPU.  Taa Daa..... One, count it, One set of chips worked!  No clue what game it is, no markings on the chips.  So I was dealing with a crap load of bad eproms.  Since my DBL R/W/B machine was in pieces (MPU worked, but I could not coin up because no coin head, and trying to rig a $1 setup to use .25 was a no go), I used the board in my Triple Diamond, it works fine except for the BV, figures...(This one has power)..  

Thanks again guys!

BTW.. I originally cleared the boards I was using because of the 61 loop.  Everything I was dealing with had been sitting for years with loooooooooong dead batteries, so yes I cleared some a few times, but the original clear was due to a battery change... Just wanted to "clear" that up)...  

[knagl]

Great, sounds like you've made some good progress!   

Even without labels on the chips, you can determine which SP and SS chips they are when it's in the machine by following these instructions:
http://www.newlifegames.net/spset/SPSS.htm