California vendor licensing discussion

[reho33]

Great pictures of the past!
Are slots allowed in California now?

Mark, they have a 25yr rule (no one obeys it)

[Buzz]

Mark, they have a 25yr rule (no one obeys it)

Shame on you for saying that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stayouttadabunker]

They can smoke pot out there but can't play a slot at home???? 

[reho33]

Well, yes. But if you get a DOJ and register with Gambling control Board (think 500.00 a year), you can "legally" have a slot All you people need to write Jerry Brown and ask the age statute be changed. If anybody feels "passionately" about it, maybe we should get a "form" letter for each of the "problem" states and then we can write to protest.

[brichter]

Well, yes. But if you get a DOJ and register with Gambling control Board (think 500.00 a year), you can "legally" have a slot All you people need to write Jerry Brown and ask the age statute be changed. If anybody feels "passionately" about it, maybe we should get a "form" letter for each of the "problem" states and then we can write to protest.

Hey, Reho, this isn't the law as I understand it, although I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

Where in CA law does it state that permits (actually called licenses) for slot machine possession and operation are available from the California Gambling Control Commission to entities other than federally recognized tribes?  

My understanding was, you can legally possess a slot machine that is 25 years or older, but still can't buy a license to operate it as a gambling device unless you're a member of one of the aforementioned tribes. And if you're not operating it as a gambling device, there's no license necessary.

Of course, anything newer than 25 years old is strictly verboten, to quote Commandant Klink...

[StatFreak]

You would not be registering as a casino operator, but as a dealer or repairer. It is legal for dealers to operate in California, as long as they don't sell newer machines to locals or those in other illegal states.

[brichter]

You would not be registering as a casino operator, but as a dealer or repairer. It is legal for dealers to operate in California, as long as they don't sell newer machines to locals or those in other illegal states.

Right, and that doesn't give you the right to operate any gambling devices, right? AFAIK, even if you have the right to deal or repair slot machines and parts, you still can't have an operating machine in your possession unless it's 25 years or older, correct?

[StatFreak]

You would not be registering as a casino operator, but as a dealer or repairer. It is legal for dealers to operate in California, as long as they don't sell newer machines to locals or those in other illegal states.

Right, and that doesn't give you the right to operate any gambling devices, right? AFAIK, even if you have the right to deal or repair slot machines and parts, you still can't have an operating machine in your possession unless it's 25 years or older, correct?

That's a question for CaptainHappy  

Paging CH


However, as I understand it, any dealer is going to have working machines in his/her possession, and that's legal, so by definition, you can have "an operating machine" in your possession; you just can't "operate" it for gaming purposes or profit. You can certainly play it to make sure it's working , to show it to legal customers, and to make a video to show legal customers too far away to see it in person.

They also don't appear to care whether or not you ever actually sell any machines, as long as you keep paying the annual state licensing fee.    

P.S. This discussion was whether someone in California could own machines newer than 25 years of age, not operate them as gambling machines for profit.

I will clarify my statement above:

You would not be registering as a casino operator, but as a dealer or repairer. It is legal for slot dealers to operate their business in California, as long as they don't sell newer machines to locals or those in other illegal states.

Mark, they have a 25yr rule (no one obeys it)

Shame on you for saying that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They can smoke pot out there but can't play a slot at home????  

...

Of course, anything newer than 25 years old is strictly verboten, to quote Commandant Klink...

[brichter]

They can smoke pot out there but can't play a slot at home????  

Yeah, because dope is harmless, but making a profit is Fricking EVIL!!!!!!!!
 

[StatFreak]

They can smoke pot out there but can't play a slot at home????  

Yeah, because dope is harmless, but making a profit is Fricking EVIL!!!!!!!!
 

phhhhhhhuuupp! [inhaling and holding breath]... Could you repeat that? I was too busing getting a hit to hear ya'.  

Making a profit isn't evil -- as long as you turn most of it over to The State.    


By the way, did you know that many of our country's founding fathers ran private lotteries to raise money? What would they think of our current greedy federal and state governments that won't allow it's private citizenry to operate games of chance (mostly because they can't tax the profits), but that operate some of the country's largest gaming operations (state lotteries) to fill their coffers?  

[brichter]

Yeah, because dope is harmless, but making a profit is Fricking EVIL!!!!!!!!
 

Making a profit isn't evil -- as long as you turn most of it over to The State.   


By the way, did you know that many of our country's founding fathers ran private lotteries to raise money? What would they think of our current greedy federal and state governments that won't allow it's private citizenry to operate games of chance (mostly because they can't tax the profits), but that operate some of the country's largest gaming operations (state lotteries) to fill their coffers? 

Gee, gov't as hypocrites? Who would'a thunk that?  






   

[StatFreak]

Gee, gov't as hypocrites? Who would'a thunk that? 

Well, there's grass, and there's grass.

First offenders for possession of less than an ounce of marijuana in the local superior court are offered a chance to have all charges dropped if they attend several NA meetings and pay a fine. It's as simple as that.

On the other hand, people who don't water their lawns in the desert to save water are criminally charged and not given a chance to easily dismiss the charge at all. And the corrupt city government has actually made it a crime to not contract for local garbage service, even if a person has another means of disposing of their trash. That's because the Ma$^a controlled garbage company paid off the local officials to get the law passed.

[brichter]

Well, there's grass, and there's grass.

First offenders for possession of less than an ounce of marijuana in the local superior court are offered a chance to have all charges dropped if they attend several NA meetings and pay a fine. It's as simple as that.

On the other hand, people who don't water their lawns in the desert to save water are criminally charged and not given a chance to easily dismiss the charge at all. And the corrupt city government has actually made it a crime to not contract for local garbage service, even if a person has another means of disposing of their trash. That's because the Ma$^a controlled garbage company paid off the local officials to get the law passed.

That's because Ca gov't. is just as corrupt as Chicago. Business owns politics, no matter which side you're on...

[Ron (r273)]

Take a look at parts of a Alabama law.

Section 13A-12-27
Possession of gambling device.

(a) A person commits the crime of possession of a gambling device if with knowledge of the character thereof he manufactures, sells, transports, places or possesses, or conducts or negotiates any transaction affecting or designed to affect ownership, custody or use of:

(1) A slot machine; or
(2) Any other gambling device, with the intention that it be used in the advancement of unlawful gambling activity.
(b) Possession of a gambling device is a Class A misdemeanor.

Casino gambling is illegal in Alabama pursuant to Alabama Code Section 13A, Chapter 12, Article 2 Alabama also does not have a state lottery, but allows pari-mutuel wagering and bingo halls that are known for their particularly high stakes.
Section 13A-12-20
Definitions.

The following definitions apply to this article:
(5) GAMBLING DEVICE. Any device, machine, paraphernalia or equipment that is normally used or usable in the playing phases of any gambling activity, whether that activity consists of gambling between persons or gambling by a person involving the playing of a machine. However, lottery tickets, policy slips and other items used in the playing phases of lottery and policy schemes are not gambling devices within this definition.(10) SLOT MACHINE. A gambling device that, as a result of the insertion of a coin or other object, operates, either completely automatically or with the aid of some physical act by the player, in such a manner that, depending upon elements of chance, it may eject something of value. A device so constructed or readily adaptable or convertible to such use is no less a slot machine because it is not in working order or because some mechanical act of manipulation or repair is required to accomplish its adaptation, conversion or workability. Nor is it any less a slot machine because apart from its use or adaptability as such it may also sell or deliver something of value on a basis other than chance.

(11) SOMETHING OF VALUE. Any money or property, any token, object or article exchangeable for money or property or any form of credit or promise directly or indirectly contemplating transfer of money or property or of any interest therein, or involving extension of a service entertainment or a privilege of playing at a game or scheme without charge.

Talk about contradictions.


Ron (r273)

[jdkmunch]

Take a look at parts of a Alabama law.

Section 13A-12-27
Possession of gambling device.

(a) A person commits the crime of possession of a gambling device if with knowledge of the character thereof he manufactures, sells, transports, places or possesses, or conducts or negotiates any transaction affecting or designed to affect ownership, custody or use of:

(1) A slot machine; or
(2) Any other gambling device, with the intention that it be used in the advancement of unlawful gambling activity.
(b) Possession of a gambling device is a Class A misdemeanor.

Casino gambling is illegal in Alabama pursuant to Alabama Code Section 13A, Chapter 12, Article 2 Alabama also does not have a state lottery, but allows pari-mutuel wagering and bingo halls that are known for their particularly high stakes.
Section 13A-12-20
Definitions.

The following definitions apply to this article:
(5) GAMBLING DEVICE. Any device, machine, paraphernalia or equipment that is normally used or usable in the playing phases of any gambling activity, whether that activity consists of gambling between persons or gambling by a person involving the playing of a machine.

I guess everyone with a computer in Alabama is guilty.  

[brichter]

Take a look at parts of a Alabama law.

The following definitions apply to this article:
(5) GAMBLING DEVICE. Any device, machine, paraphernalia or equipment that is normally used or usable in the playing phases of any gambling activity, whether that activity consists of gambling between persons or gambling by a person involving the playing of a machine.

I guess everyone with a computer in Alabama is guilty.  

Or a deck of cards, for that matter.

[brichter]

Hey, my post got edited? 

[Ron (r273)]

Hey, my post got edited? 

No I just check something and it put an edit on it.

Ron (r273)

[brichter]

You would not be registering as a casino operator, but as a dealer or repairer. It is legal for dealers to operate in California, as long as they don't sell newer machines to locals or those in other illegal states.

Seems like there's more to it than just that from this statement on the application:

The California Tribal-State Gaming Compact requires that any Gaming Resources Supplier who directly or indirectly provides at least twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000) in Gaming Resources in any 12-month period, or any Financial Source Provider extending financing directly or indirectly in connection with a Tribe’s operation, shall be licensed by the Tribal Gaming Agency prior to providing such services. In addition to this requirement, Gaming Resources Suppliers and Financial Source Providers shall apply to the State Gaming Agency for a determination of suitability for licensure.

So does this mean you only have to register if you do more than $25k in business, or you can't register at all unless you do $25k in business?

It also appears that the license is with the TGA, not the state. The state just wants a handout of $500 (plus $1000 to cover the costs of the requisite background checks, the unused portion of which should be refunded) to say that the applicant qualifies to hold a license from the TGA. And, I wonder how often excess deposits are actually returned to the applicants?

Calling Captain Happy again!!! Gotta love California lawmaking, the more you research the more questions you have.

[StatFreak]

Brichter, I think the problem is that you are mixing up California tribal gaming laws with the laws concerning possession of slots and the right for companies to be in the business of buying and selling slots, which has nothing to do with operating them as gambling devices.

I'm not sure, but that text may only apply to those who supply gaming resources to the tribes for use in their casino operations within California.

A slot dealer who buys slots from brokers or private sources, then repairs and resells them to private citizens in Ohio, Texas, Arizona, etc., or to people overseas to use however they wish (such as in small casinos in South America or whatever) would have nothing whatsoever to do with gaming in California. We all know a company in the Los Angeles area who has been doing this for decades. It's completely legal and above board.

Basically, you have companies that reside and PAY TAXES in California, but who cannot do business with anyone in the state, except with other licensed businesses engaged in the same activity.

Weird, yes; illegal, no.

[brichter]

Ok, so I don't need the $500 license to conduct out of state business?

Not sure about the mixing up, but Reho stated that you needed this $500 permit/license to actually have a slot machine newer than 25 years in CA. The only $500 fee I could find on the CGCC site was not a permit or a license, it was only the fee to determine if you could or could not be licensed/permitted.  

Please note that this $500 permit/license I am speaking of IS NOT a permit or license to operate a gambling device. If you read my bolded quote from the document on their website, this is for a Gaming Resource Supplier.

[StatFreak]

...If you read my bolded quote from the document on their website, this is for a Gaming Resource Supplier.

Yes, but it specifically refers to a resource supplier who provides resources to Tribal Gaming.

I have no idea what the fee is for slot dealer/brokers. We have at least three members here who hold the license and could tell you.

PM sent.

[reho33]

Like tradulovich, he is a member here and holds CA license GVMD 000300, it is searchable on their database.

[StatFreak]

Like tradulovich, he is a member here and holds CA license GVMD 000300, it is searchable on their database.

Actually, the list of licensees sheds some light on the different types of licenses one can hold.  GVMD stands for Gaming Vendor, Manufacturer & Distributors of gaming equipment.

Here is a link to the portal page of the list of licensed entities. Browsing the combo-box drop-down list reveals the myriad of licenses available. For the purposes of our discussion, one would be looking to obtain one of the Vendor licenses.

http://www.cgcc.ca.gov/?pageID=licensees&pageName=Licensees%20%and%20Registrants

[StatFreak]

Okay, so here is the legal blurb that applies to license holders of Manufacturers and Distributors class (GVMD):

Manufacturers & Distributors of Gambling Equipment

The appearance of manufacturers and distributors within this listing means only that they have registered with the California Gambling Control Commission (Commission), as a business entity engaged in activities related to specified gambling equipment, pursuant to Title 4, California Code of Regulations, Sections 12300-12310.

Registration with the Commission does not mean that any type of license has been issued or that a finding of suitability has been determined as required by a Tribal-State Gaming Compact.

Accordingly, any applicable licensing and/or a finding of suitability requirement under either a Tribal-State Gaming Compact, state law or federal law, would have to be followed.

So with typical government doublespeak, the state of confusion Kalifornia states that "registrants" of a GVMD "license" don't have "licenses," even though they are listed as having licenses with "Active" statuses.       ...Clear?