WBA-11 in S+ Upgrade options?

[sblair]

I've got an IGT S+ slot with a WBA-11 in it that I'm looking to upgrade.  From what I understand to go to a WBA-13, I would need to replace the transport, harness, power supply but could reuse the WBA-11 head.

Question is if that is the best upgrade route to go or if I should be looking at putting a completely different acceptor in while I'm doing this?

What is the status for new bill support in the WBA-13?

Thanks.
Scott

[AnotherTech]

The WBA-13 is currently fully supported and still in use in many casinos.  It will probably have new bill support until it runs out of memory space to put in new ones.  That means the more new bills they come out with, the faster it will be obsolete. 

[sblair]

My understanding from this other thread was that new bill support would stop at the end of next year...  http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=10877.0

[Jim]

the question you have to ask???  I don't know the answer to this!   do the newer UBA  support IDO-022/023  needed for S+.

the WBA's do. I think either a WBA 12 or 13 will work.  both have bill acceptance, only one has ticket reading ability. I don't think you will save any money by ordering one without a head.  you will need the harness,  transport.  to the best of my knowledge the power supply is the same for all WBA's

just specify that the wba has to have the Ido's for the S+.

I know the last version I have for the WBA-11 will accept the new ten, I am told that there is a version that will accept the new five.

Jim

[jay]

The straight poop on this is that the new colored $5 for the S+ platform was rejected by IGT.
It did not matter if it was DBV or WBA, but both are still fully supported by JCM for Bally and the WMS machines including the new colored $5's.

I have heard however that the new $5 for the S+ platform was released to some customers and that the code is in the wild albiet somewhat restricted as these customers paid dearly for this as it falls under the JCM custom program. IGT has been trying to kill off the S+ both in the primary northamerican markets as well as the secondary overseas markets. If they can create a demand for the S2000 overseas then the casinos here will be inclined to buy or lease new machines.

I am pretty sure the new colored $100's are NOT going to be supported in the DBV200's because of the magnetic stripe feature is not capable of being supported (on any platform).

I don't know if it will be supported in the WBA or not. I guess it depends of the WBA is capable of reading the magnetics. Perhaps it already is.
I would suspect that if JCM was so inclined they could use the colored note without the magnetic security feature but the question is "would they ?"

This seems like a perfect opportunity to drive sales as they could blame it on the US Treasury.  If I was the brain behind JCM I would do this through a head upgrade vs a whole new series or transport swap. The theory being that as a customer if I was replacing 1000's of units perhaps I would be inclined to try someone elses product especially if it was cheaper. I am sure Mars or others are just dying to get a piece of the casino action. If they sell dbvs to a vending machine operator they are selling 20-30 units, perhaps a couple hunderd would be a great sale. If they sell to a casino like MGM then they are selling thousands all on one invoice.

As a validator vendor if I can get the casinos to only upgrade a easy to swap minor-part (like a head) then I have a locked in customer base ++ I would have a good marketing story about how great the JCM product was - as they just needed a minor upgrade to a major problem. heck they could probably charge 75% of the cost of a new platform and have only 5% of the cost.  

The WBA series has the software code in the transport vs the head as that is harder to muck with. So with the WBA series the heads are universal and the transports are different.

It was identified that if someone could get "special" code into the head that would perhaps accept monopoly money then they could cheat the casinos out of a ton of cash. One bad casino $6/hr casino tech gets a batch of the hacked heads into the casino (either by flashing the spares on the bench / bringing in new heads / however) then all they need is a bunch of flunkies to go stick peanut butter sandwichees into the dbvs on the floor.  Then any tech (doesn't have to be the corrupted one) replaces the floor head with the spares and the machines are now vulnerable to monopoly money. Six months down the road someone comes in and hits a bunch of  machines for a few hundred each, tito out use the ezpay terminals and it would at least 24hrs before the casino would know it had been hit. No big transactions to set off any red security flags etc.

With the code in the transport the peanut butter and Jelly attack is thwarted before it can start.

[blueridgeslots]

If you want to have an S+ (or PE+) that accepts the New colored $5 in 4 directions we have the upgrade kit, they are only WBA-12 and we have the harness and Head & Transport in stock and can ship right away, there will be no further update, these units are like brand new, for home use probably too much, but for an operator a life preserver to keep old equipment in use, this is if already WBA equipped, or even can convert DSV units on S+ as well

[sblair]

I've got 2 S+ slots here.  Both currently have WBA-11's that appear to be dead (confirmed that they were enabled using the S+ SET chip).  I need to dig into them a bit further, but seemed like they would be worth upgrading from the WBA-11 regardless.  One of these slots I'm going to keep for myself so I was really interested in trying to get support for the new $100 bill.  The other S+ I'll be selling, but at least want it to have a working acceptor that will accept most current money.

Of course it's all about what makes the most sense from a cost perspective too. 

Here's the thread about the issues I was experiencing with the current WBA-11's in there:  http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=9483.0

Thanks.
Scott

[jay]

I don't think the new $100's are being supported in the S+

Not that I want to ruin a sale for Jim or anyone else but if this was my money and I had my heart set on support for the new $100's I would rather spend my $$ on a S2000 with a WBA xx or UBA in it than dumping several hundred dollars more into a platform that you know is going to go end of life very quickly.

First off you know that the security feature on the new $100 will be expanded to the next-gen $50's and $20's soon..... so upgrading to the colored $5's is money down the drain. In the scenerio that blueridge threw out if you are a route operator with a machine that is state certified you don't have the option of buying a retired S2000 as its not certfied so extending your life on the old platform makes sense. For the home consumer it doesn't.

I would do what you need to (as cheaply as possible) to get your WBAs working.
Then I would sell your old S+ for what you can get, add to that the money you would have spent on the DBV and buy the S2000.

Jay

[AnotherTech]

I don't think the new $100's are being supported in the S+

Not that I want to ruin a sale for Jim or anyone else but if this was my money and I had my heart set on support for the new $100's I would rather spend my $$ on a S2000 with a WBA xx or UBA in it than dumping several hundred dollars more into a platform that you know is going to go end of life very quickly.

First off you know that the security feature on the new $100 will be expanded to the next-gen $50's and $20's soon..... so upgrading to the colored $5's is money down the drain. In the scenerio that blueridge threw out if you are a route operator with a machine that is state certified you don't have the option of buying a retired S2000 as its not certfied so extending your life on the old platform makes sense. For the home consumer it doesn't.

I would do what you need to (as cheaply as possible) to get your WBAs working.
Then I would sell your old S+ for what you can get, add to that the money you would have spent on the DBV and buy the S2000.

Jay

x2.  I didn't realize JCM was pulling the plug on new software for the WBA.  That will cause our casino problems in a year or so.

I also didn't know about IGT denying new S+ software, either.  IGT has always tried to encourage new machine sales over  keeping old ones, but this is a bit more blunt.  If they are doing that, you know there won't be any software for other BVs that never came in them anyway.

It sounds like the WBA-12s that Blue Ridge has are the most up to date there will ever be for the S+, unless some private developer takes a go at it.

[sblair]

S+ machines are about the only ones I see come up in the auctions around here.  I buy them and refurbish them and flip them as a hobby.  I decided to keep one for myself though since I get them cheap....much cheaper than what I'd be looking at to buy an S2000 just for me.

I'm not sure I understand how IGT could prohibit JCM from releasing an update unless they have the ability to through their business contracts.  That wouldn't stop another BV company from releasing a BV that is compatible with the S+ platform.  Are there any other 3rd party BV's besides JCM that will work in an S+?

On the units I sell, I obviously update to BV's that support current currency before I sell them.  For example, I just purchased a couple DBV-200's to replace the working DBV-145's in some Sigma Poker games I'm selling.  What happens with currency updates after that is out of my hands.  Since I'm planning on keeping one of these S+ machines, I'm at least trying to take a bit longer range view on the BV, if possible.

Where was it published that there would be no new currency for the WBA for IGT machines?  I did see the release that software updates would end for them in 12/2012.  It also sounds like there are a lot of issues in printing the new $100 bills, so who knows when they will even come out.

What does an upgrade kit to a WBA-12 or 13 run?

Thanks.,
Scott

[jay]

I don't think IGT is prohibiting JCM from doing anything.

As I understand how things work (and we have several members from JCM on this forum who may correct me) ..........

The S+ protocol is no longer being requested from IGT so JCM doesn't release new code for this.
If a casino wants something special - ie validation of their own currency/coupons then JCM will develop this code and of cource charge dearly for it.

In this case the new $5 was not in general release and a couple of companies purchased this mod.
JCM doesn't restrict the use of this custom code (or any code) but only warrants it for paying customers.
As we know the $5 is in the wild.

I don't know if the magnetic security feature is in WBA or not, if not then I doubt you will see support for the new $100s. Otherwise you will have to wait to see if the
$100 code is leaked......

[sblair]

I've been digging into the WBA-11 that is in the machine now to figure out why it isn't working before I try upgrading to a WBA-12/13.

One guestion that I have in doing the upgrade is changing the harness.  What is the easiest way to get the harness connector unbolted from the WBA frame?  The floating connector is screwed in from the back side and the WBA frame assy is closed on the back so you can't even get a screwdriver around.  I can't find any way of getting the left side panel of the WBA frame off as it appears to be spot welded so it would look like the entire damn assy would need to be removed and it isn't clear how that happens.  As best I can see there are several nuts that come off on the bottom below the cash can and above the S+ power supply but the space is too tight to get a nutdriver in there without it being extra long...  Not sure what is holding it at the top side...

Am I missing something here?   I've found that generally getting most assy's in and out of the S+ are incredibly easy, so I assume I'm making this more difficult than it needs to be.

Thanks.
Scott

[Foster]

There are 2 screws at the back of the cash can area and 2 on the outside left side even with the transport shelf
DBV 200 S+ and WBA 12 in S2000 is that way

[OhioGaming]

I am currently upgrading our IGTs with IDO 24s with the new 100 software. S2000s .. Game Kings .. I Games

[sblair]

I am currently upgrading our IGTs with IDO 24s with the new 100 software. S2000s .. Game Kings .. I Games

Is that available for the S+ though?  What model DBV is that?

[OhioGaming]

See Blueridges comments above about the S+ machines. He has the WBA 12 for the S+ which will accept the colored $5.

What I have is for the newer machines like the S2000s, I Games and Game Kings which uses the WBA 12/13 with IDO 24.

[sblair]

See Blueridges comments above about the S+ machines. He has the WBA 12 for the S+ which will accept the colored $5.

What I have is for the newer machines like the S2000s, I Games and Game Kings which uses the WBA 12/13 with IDO 24.

Okay, I thought that was the case, but just wanted to verify to make sure I understood correctly.  I'm at the stage of knowing enough to be dangerous I'll admit

[Foster]

Those are WBA 12/13 with ID 24 The S+ can only use 22/23 ID.

[Luv2Camp]

If you want to have an S+ (or PE+) that accepts the New colored $5 in 4 directions we have the upgrade kit, they are only WBA-12 and we have the harness and Head & Transport in stock and can ship right away, there will be no further update, these units are like brand new, for home use probably too much, but for an operator a life preserver to keep old equipment in use, this is if already WBA equipped, or even can convert DSV units on S+ as well

How much is this conversion kit?  My machine right now is an s+ upright and currently have a DBA200.  I really like the thought of being able to accept the new bills!

[JCM Tech]

Just thought I'd clear things up about getting updated software for validators. JCM actually made the upgraded software for WBA 12/ 13 for the new bills. Here is the problem. In order to get the software approved by the gaming commission, it must be submitted for testing in all platforms it is expected to be used in. This must be done by the manufacture of the game. JCM cannot submit for approval because they don't make the games. Add the cost of getting the approval with the fact IGT is trying to kill the S+ in the market and it never got submitted. And also the ID-024 and ID-023 protocol software is an IGT only protocol, JCM can only make whatever IGT requests and approves.
There was one case where a company paid IGT to get limited approval of an upgrade. That was Patriot gaming, and I can't recall the specific version, or which protocol it was for.

Hope this helps clear things up.