Timing link 'variator' question

[frenchmarky]

My 873 is working ok except that on about every 10th pull, the first reel in indexing almost immediately after the reels start spinning.  Is it normal for the variator to cause the timing to change so much in that direction, where the first reel has almost no spin time at all?  Maybe it's just due to normal wear on the parts or something being it's 40 years old... Is there any specific adjustment I can make that will increase the overall indexing time so I always get decent spin on the first reel?  I've tweaked the handle trip stop as far as it will go without the handle getting stuck down, didn't help.

Another thing is that the variator appears to have 20 steps, manual says it takes one step per pull but mine takes two.  Doesn't seem like a big deal, would just change the timing more on each pull, right?  I disabled the variator stepping arm upwards at a 'long spin' position which gives plenty of spin time on the first reel, till I figure out what else to try.

Thanks!

[frenchmarky]

Well I tried a little trick and it fixed the problem, doubt it's the correct way to go about it but I'll stick with it for now.  Couldn't find anything in my manuals that dealt with only adjusting the timing up or down.  And doesn't look like you can fool with the position of the outer timing 'crank' vs. it's shaft, cuz those cranks appear to be fixed in position with pins, not allen screws.  Also did the trip drive shaft adjustment so the handle roller stud aligns with the handle mech, and adjusted the trip pawl stop until the handle doesn't lock up.

So I looped a short piece of thin insulated wire around the very back end of the main timing arm and twisted the ends so it stays there, thru the long slot in it.  That way the when the crank pin pulls the timing arm back, it pulls it just a smidge farther cuz of the thickness of wire at the rear of the slot.  Only a tiny amount more like maybe 1/32 of an inch more or even less.  Since the link returns slowly via the timing motor it added just enough spin time that even the lowest variator position's 1st reel spin is fine now.  Perhaps it's just a matter of overall wear on all the parts and this tweak corrected for excess play.

[frenchmarky]

I accidentally discovered the REAL cause of this early 1st reel indexing, when I noticed a lot of times when I held the timer governor in place the machine would still index the 1st and sometimes the 2nd reel too.  It of course shouldn't have allowed any indexing with the timer stopped. 
All it was was a loose governor 'fan' that mounts to the shaft, the screws needed tightening and I also removed bunch of grease on the fan's spring washers. 

So when the timer started it would spin way too fast at first, until the friction with the loose fan let the fan catch up with it.  This was making the start of the timing period too fast (1st reel index).

[RiseLikeRa]

Very interesting!  I am new to the game and have heard about this problem.  You descriptions were excellent.  I will know where to look in the future.  Happy Slotting!

TW

[frenchmarky]

Ummm well I'm now onto my THIRD different diagnosis/fix of this early 1st reel trip but I believe I finally have a solid solution.  After some more testing, the clock fan was now secured correctly and not slipping, but after removing the timing link wire shimming (fix no. 1 !), the timing problem seemed like it was gone but alas it did still remain.  Arghh!  Also one of the clock gears ended up having a couple of knocked-out teeth, so after installing a set of new clock gears I went back to analyze this timing glitch one more time.  Who wants a like-new clock but the reel kickoff is still honked up every 10th pull, right?

Since each reel's sequential trip time is determined by which of the four holes in its latch link is used to position it on the corresponding idler timing lever, that is the only real adjustable thing about the timing.  Adjustable as per sequence only however, not for anything finer than that.  So what I did was to add a very thin amount of shimming (several layers of thick tape) to the reel #1 trip shaft lever, where it contacts the #1 idler lever.  This just adds a little more retraction to the #1 latch link so it kicks slightly later.  Basically it is just a finer adjustment within the normal range via those four fixed link holes, and I'm only affecting the #1 timing instead of all the reels with that dumb wire shim deal.  I suppose one could bend ever so slightly the timer lever's arm that contacts the idler lever instead of adding shim at that spot, but I didn't want to risk that, and the tape is an easy solution.  Anyway this is definitely my final fix for this, hope it helps anybody out there as a useable timing trick.  Dunno why I didn't figure this out when I started this but hey one learns by making mistakes  : )

[RiseLikeRa]

Thanks so much for the detailed explanation.  NOW can you post some pics of your solution?  If not, PM me so that I can refine my understanding.  I have my tape ready.  Thanks

TW

[frenchmarky]

It's the rectangular piece of white velcro tape here in the upper left of this underside pic.  I've since changed it to electrical tape so I could add/remove layers to dial in the timing, i.e. increased timing enough to eliminate premature reel 1 indexing at shortest variable timing link position.)

[RiseLikeRa]

A picture IS worth a thousand words.  Thank you so much.  I am on the case.  My 809 has a problematic first reel from time to time.  I think that the problem will be solved toot sweet

TW