What is your favorite slot machine manufacturer: WMS, IGT, BALLY?

[cfh]

I've sold a lot of Wms model 40x games.
I HAVE NOT HAD A SINGLE RETURN REPAIR ON THEM.
Not one.  On the other hand i've had to do LOTS of
return calls on S+ machines. Mostly it's because people
are idiots and they play with the jackpot reset key
and get 3100 errors and can't keep the DBV working.
(the IGT dbv protocol blows chunks and is a lot
less forgiving than the bally/wms protocol.)

I have found i spend (waste) A LOT more time fixing
IGT S+ slots than i do Wms slots. I know what is
wrong with every Wms slot! so i just do the initial
work and i'm done with it. On IGT S+ it sure seems
like i f*ck around with them when you get that
"problem child" S+.  It's frustrating and a pain in the
ass. I find the Wms stuff much more straight forward
and easier to solve problems in a systematic manner.

Williams are more durable than IGT if you
get the power supply issue fixed. i put in a new
computer ATX power supply in every one i sell.
I don't sell them with the original power supplies,
which are total crap.  All the slot retailers i have
seen are too lazy to fix Wms games right. It takes
a bit of work to do the computer ATX modifcation,
but it really bullet-proofs the system, and makes
future repairs a 30 second snap. Doing the work
is why most slot retailers don't sell them, or why they
complain about them. 

All i see from slot retailers
is a "swap parts" approach to repair. Component
level repair? No way they don't want to do it, or
better put, don't know how to do it.
And modifying something to fix a problem takes
too much time for them. They would rather play
"musical parts swapping" then to actually repair
something.  It may be a time versus money thing.
That is, component level repair is a, "juice is not
worth the squeeze" thing. And maybe that's the
whole issue with Wms 40x slots. They require some
initial love and time so they are bullet proof, and
most retailers don't want to spend that time.
At least that's what i have seen.
Your mileage may vary.

[blueridgeslots]

I've sold a lot of Wms model 40x games.
I HAVE NOT HAD A SINGLE RETURN REPAIR ON THEM.
Not one.  On the other hand i've had to do LOTS of
return calls on S+ machines. Mostly it's because people
are idiots and they play with the jackpot reset key
and get 3100 errors and can't keep the DBV working.

Williams are FAR more durable than IGT if you
get the power supply issue fixed. i put in a new
computer ATX power supply in every one i sell.
I don't sell them with the original power supplies,
which are total crap.  All the slot retailers i have
seen are too f*cking lazy to fix Wms games right.
Hence that's why they don't sell them, or why they
complain about them.

You simply like the WMS due to the similarity to Pin's, that's understandable or don't understand the IGT's, or are using the wrong software or not explaining the games/bv's to the customer, or possibly you got some extremely wore out S+, I have refurbed S and S+ I have sold 8-10 years ago without a service call and know they are still going as I have sold more, the factory WMS power supply was is fine if replaced with a new one, either one has a hour limit of service, I have a large pile of ATX power supplies out of the BlueBirds that are bad, on the IGT's  a used game may have problems compared to a completely reconditioned game, the new trend, sell cheap, but call it refurbed even though it is a plain used game and offer a warranty but never honor, anyway if the person operating it does not understand it is a problem, say a person buy's a S+ with a bv, has 20 coins in the hopper, the game gets cashed out with 100 credits on it, then the customer bitches it keeps getting a 3100 code, who's fault is it?

[cfh]

Actually i agree with the above, and jackpot payouts and lack of coins
is the biggest problem i have with new S+ owners. But frankly
ALL these S+ slots are used!  Every one of them. No one is selling
new S+ machines. or any new machines by any maker.

Wms is less of a problem though. Because it's REALLY EASY
to set the credit ON so that any paid credit don't turn the
hopper. IGT, depending on the 731 or whatever chip, that
isn't necessarily the case.

but yea when they hit that payout button (or if the payout
button is not "set" correctly), and the hopper runs out
of coins, the 3100 or 3300 code comes up and confuses
them. Again this is far less of an issue on Wms games
because they have it programmed by default to always
go to credit and not to hopper. And at least on
Wms games it says HoPr, which most people
understand as a hopper problem, and then just
put in some more coins!  Again another reason why i don't
like S+ machines for new slot owners, it's like teaching
someone Spanish.  With Wms games there is some
english codes that make call backs FAR less common
in my experience.

[Foster]

I know they wont do the access for the small fee.
I am saying they should offer it.


 

[Foster]

I am looking into getting the WMS 550 stuff.
Just to have something different.

But I wont give up my S2000 anytime soon.
The S+ maybe if I get the right offer

[a69mopar]

Even though I have a ton of different SP chips, I mostly use the sp1271 or 1274 in my machines, I always set the hopper limit to 400, when I sell one I ask if they want it lower or want to add more quarters.  I usually explain that the bells will ring if they cash out more than the 400 credits and that the only need to turn the reset key to stop it.  I also set the credit limit to 9999, so they can accumulate lots of credits.  An explanation of how to use the bill validator (bill jam and take out cash can etc). I always suggest a surge supressor power bar.  I don't have any problems after.  Since the machines are manufactured for a casino, I remove some of the items that aren't required for home use such as any wiring that was for their security and or tracking system and the bill validator door switch (this one eliminates any future headaches).  If you are willing to put the time into them at first then they will give years of trouble free service.  I do the same types of things with my Williams and Bally machines with similar results.  One of my final statements is don't open the door unless you need to.

Thanks and have a great weekend,
Wayne

[StatFreak]

There has been so much debate here about the S+ and WMS Dotmation that I thought I'd chime in as well.

I don't agree with cfh regarding the S+. I really enjoy my S+ machines and I like being able to swap out a game in 10 minutes with no issues, but I would be remiss if I didn't highly recommend the Wms Dotmation games as well. They definitely have much better sound systems and music! And the better games are truly a blast to play. I have Mermaid's Gold, X-factor, and Jackpot Party and they are all fun to play (Jackpot Party is my favorite). I have played Jackpot Stampede, Jackpot Limbo, Big Bang Piggy Bankin', and Winning Streak several times at Joeys. My next choice for purchase among those would be Jackpot Stampede and Limbo. I, like others, prefer the games where there are choices to be made in the bonus round. I found the other two to be a bit boring, but that's just my opinion.

[jdkmunch]

Mostly it's because people
are idiots and they play with the jackpot reset key
and get 3100 errors and can't keep the DBV working.
(the IGT dbv protocol blows chunks and is a lot
less forgiving than the bally/wms protocol.)

What happens when you get a 3100?  Can't you just put more quarters in and close the door?  And what makes the DBV stop working?

[blueridgeslots]

Yes, 3100 is just an empty hopper, private owners are more likely to play with just a few dollars worth of quarters, as they seem to "walk off", there is nothing wrong with the DBV on an IGT, if you run a wore out bill in any high security bv it is possible to get rejected and jamb on the push out, easy fix, just don't put a 1947 dollar bill won in curbside crap game that has been folded 947 ways and then rolled into a pea size ball, then straightened out into any bv

[uniman]

This is great thread!!    K+ PWRSTROKE  (modified; I see the thread has been now moved/merged to a previous thread.)

Bally's was the king in the 70's and early 80's.
A Bally's engineer Telnaes patented the virtual stop in 1984.
Universal came out with stepper reel combined with the electronic board in late 1984-85.
In the mid 80's it was Universal who had the market share of reel slots.
IGT took over in the 90's.
Now, I don't consider myself an IGT basher. But what I see is that IGT was very, very aggressive with their competitors. To the point they would sue WMS, Bally's, and file protests with the NGB (Neveda Gaming Board) against Universal. When offshoot companies like Anchor Gaming came about and created the Gold Wheel for Bally's and was creating the Totem Pole for Universal, IGT purchased the company. Smart move on their part, less diversity for us.
It's only when I see claims like "thanks to IGT for the modern slots of today" that I get my dander up!
They all played a part and still are.

As far as playing the machines, I like them all. Each company has their own niche and each has creative features. And this variety from competition is what's good for us. 

As far as home games, in my unbiased opinion,  the Universal Ultra beats them all. I can do a game change in 5 minutes or less. RAM reset is a breeze (push button). Backlit reels are standard and powered from the MPU, no extra boards. Most parts are interchangeable from upright to slant top including the glass and reel strips. Only problem is there aren't many machines out there! 
The old Uni's are OK too. And there are a lot of them out there. Yet few come looking for help. A tribute to the machine I believe.

[cfh]

The bill validator protocol on IGT is way different than wms/bally.
it's MUCH more of a pain in the ass. Especially in the case of a
dead battery, a Set chip needs to be run to turn the validator ON.
This means putting in the Set chip, knowing that "9 0" means
bill off, and that "9 1" means bill on. And then setting the denomination
to 25 cents.  Oh did i mention you probably need an IGT Clear
chip too!  that's another separate procedure with a distinct
clear protocol that you have to understand. ERRR.

Remember what i said about learning Spanish?  Well yea it's
a bit like that in the bizarro world of f*cked up IGT land.

Williams on the other hand forgoes all that. they have a separate
chip for 25 clears, so you don't have to remember to set the
denomination. And the bill validator is always "on", so you don't
have to worry about remembering some weird code to turn it on.

Again, IGT land is like living in a foreign country where
everyone speaks a strange langauge you don't understand.
Williams land is much easier to deal with. More like english
with a bad accent instead of nigerian.

So bottom line: buy an IGT S+ and get a mundane set of games
that are basically all the same. Clear and battery and error codes
that make no sense to a normal human. And pay more money
for this privledge.  Or get a Wms game that has WAY better
sound and bonus games and imagination, and gives english
error codes and generally runs better with less hand holding
clear chips and other crap.  It's your choice...

Oh yea game change is easier in Wms land too. In fact there
is a small modification you can make so that you don't even
have to use a separate clear chip on a Williams slot to change
games. IGT game change, again you're dealing with that
foreign langauge of weird error codes and wondering why
the bill acceptor no longer works.

[stayouttadabunker]

jdkmunch,
I hear your getting yourself an S+!
You're going to be a proud owner of one of the coolest slot machines ever made!

[cfh]

jdkmunch,
I hear your getting yourself an S+!
You're going to be a proud owner of one of the coolest slot machines ever made, period.

"Cool" like a hemorid. Or "cool" like a Leisure suit.
or "cool" like AARP.  yea sure, reallllly cool.

[blueridgeslots]

Last Post on this, You do not need a Set or Clear chip to replace a dead battery unless it has been dead for months, I went years without using a Clear chip on a S+ until I bought games that sat with P/T still in them, and if you put a battery in a game that just goes dead you do not need to use a Set chip, the memory is retained by the E square chip on the motherboard, and the WMS uses the same exact E Square chip, and on the conversion is easier statement on a WMS that is BS, no Clear chip is need on a S+ usually not even the Set chip if you don't change the Game (SP) chip, on a WMS the backlit reels are made by the same company that makes the reels for the S-2000 backlit (Starpoint), the WMS strips were not made to be reused, WMS had every set in stock at all locations when the 400/401 was a current platform, I got many sets from NJ in the late 90's, they only came in sets back then, ok the WMS had some neater features earlier, but like Uniman said so did Uni Ultra's, S+ machines are much more durable and operate more stable, any platform that uses a switching power supply will have more power problems than a S+, bottom line they both play, but in 20 years the S+ will still be playing without problems, and the BV protocol is not a issue, the only real difference is the stacker type, and the IGT has a better security system, btw there was many aftermarket add on's to S+ that used the SG/SH validator and 022 or the 011 protocol, so there is 3 different protocols to choose from, I am just wondering now if you dislike the IGT since you are selling WMS, sort of like a Chevy dealer saying Ford's suck?, if anyone wants to call my bluff on that one I will bet them I have more miles on my Ford and still get 20-22 mpg (20 with 12 S+ in it, 22 Empty) just turned 640,000 (and no rust)

[cfh]

you are correct if the battery low issue is found early a new battery
can be put on without a clear. i use 3 AA batteries that are remote
mounted on IGTs so this makes it a breeze. The 12 code comes,
keep the game on, remove the hopper, installed 3 new AA batteries,
power off and back on. Code 12 gone with no clear. BUT you have
to have the remote pack already mounted.

Another way that i have done thiis is to solder the new lithium battery
next to the old dead battery. as soon as the new one is soldered,
cut the old one out. Again, no clear chip needed.  But again, most
people don't do that or think to do that. (you can also use aligator
clips and a temp battery while a new one is soldered in place.)

I get calls all the time from people that went to "battery inc" and
bought a lithium, cut the old one out, then soldered the new one in.
and of course in the process lost all the memory!

As for selling Wms games, i really have no horse in the race here.
I DON'T SELL TO YOU GUYS. YOU GUYS DON'T BUY FROM ME.
I posted games here before and it's a complete waste of time.
Powerstr egged me to post some stuff for sale. but i think he just
wanted to see what i had and at what prices. no one here will ever
buy anything from me. everyone here has ways to get what they
want for next to nothing and like to work on the games themselves.

[uniman]

I see my previous post in PWRSTROKE's thread has been merged into this one. It was in reference to Neonkiss's post.
Doesn't fit very well now, thanks admin.

Clay, it is true most here are "do-it-yourselfers". But I think your prices are dirt cheap and you have a quality product. Doesn't hurt to post the price. I've seen many people pay much more thru this site before.
Problem for most folks is that they are too far away. Nobody wants to pay the shipping bill. And the current economy doesn't help either.

I wouldn't mind having an X-Factor game. I was checking out the one you had on Craigslist last month!
For me, the problem is too many machines already.   

As far as the S+ goes, it was a very successful machine in the casino's. Parts are available. Tech support too! Game kits are everywhere. I don't see anyone posting rewards for eproms and reel strips for the S+. Hard for me to bash success.

Every brand has issues, WMS appears to be the power supply, S+ and others is the battery change and sometimes the DBV's. But someone here always comes up with a clever fix! Like your computer power supply.

The WMS dotmation at the same cost would have much more to offer. But I think parts may be harder to come by?
Game kits too?
Bottom line is everybody has their favorites depending on what they like and what they can afford.

[cfh]

I can make you up an X-factor if you want one.
I have a 9" kit. In fact, i have a kit for nearly
every wms dotmation and even a lot of the
"good" non-dot games. upper/lower glass and
reel strips. unfortunately they are mostly 9" kits,
and i have several 16" games i have to sell
before i can get to the 9" ones.

but yea williams parts are harder to find. heck
the games are harder to find. look on ebay and
you'll see 1 or 2 williams slots and a zillion S+ slots.

Igt had like 80% of the market share during the
1990s, so those machines are everywhere. but
also they are the ones most people remember playing
at the casino. I just don't like them personally. i never
played them at the casino, so i'm not operating in
the nostalgic mode.

[PWRSTROKE]

Well,  I just got back home and have enjoyed reading all these posts about the games.  Clay I think you have good prices on your games as long as they are orginal and not with the fake reel strips.  You must still admit as much as you like them and others for that matter including myself you got a good deal on your 21 machines!! .  "parts or hard to come by" <near quote>.  All the games have their pros and cons.  Just about every manuf. out there I have a favorite in.  Clay what is your favorite igt game- New or Old?.  I was not egging you on about prices on your games.  I bet you sell some from that post esp. at those prices.  Later and Merry X-mas -B.

[brichter]

As for selling Wms games, i really have no horse in the race here.

Oh, musta been some other cfh that posted up Williams games for sale last night... 



Oh, and another vote for IGT, although Joey almost talked me into picking up a Williams on the 4th of July!

[a69mopar]

Yes, a poll would have been good in this post.

Thanks,
Wayne