ChamII battery life

[Mr. Dinoman]

OK, does anyone know how to keep a ChamII from losing it's programming?...I have tried the mod. with a 2032 battery...Last about 1 week...Is there anything anyone has done to make the RAM chips stop losing its memory for a long time...I am guessing that the original rechargeable disc battery was really designed to be used as almost always on and therefor would not lose its memory programming for weeks if power was off...Any idea's?...
Thanks,
Jimmy

[keystone9]

I was wondering if you came up with a solution for your problem? I would like to fix a few of my own. Thanks Bill

[edski]

The batteries on the boards are not rechargeable, and should keep memory for years.
I've taken boards that have sat on the shelf for 3 years, and they power up with all the programs intact.
How are you storing these?
Something is shorting out or drawing the battery down somehow.


Edski

[keystone9]

I have replaced the batterys on 8 Bally Monte Carlo games with the new correct battery. I get the batterys charged to 3.1V by keeping the games turned on untill the batterys are charged. A few days later some will be dischared to 2.3V and loose the memory. I then have to reprogram the Chamm 2 and recharge the battery by keeping it powerd up. I  am not new to the Chamm 2 but this is a new problem for me. I am wondering what might be draining the battery if that is the problem. If I leave them turned on there is no problem. Thanks Bill

[Mr. Dinoman]

I am trying a new idea...First the battery is a rechargeable disc battery...Here is a link.. http://cellpacksolutions.com/Search_Data_Sheet.asp?ID=VL2020-1HFE ..It only has about 1000 time it can be recharged...I believe the designers were thinking the Cham would be plugged in and on-thus keeping the battery fully charged...It only has a small mA output and could hold it voltage for up to 500 days...That's good, but it must be fully charged...As these unit are sitting around inside machines that are not used for a long time, they loose there charge and therefore can not maintain the programing information...What I am trying is I found a Lithium camera battery at RS that outputs 3v at 3600ma!...Soldered wires to the battery (be very careful and scratch up the term. first and quickly solder the wires on it and use a diode to stop the ChamII from charging it)...Since the VL2020 is only rated at about 20ma, I figured 3600ma should last a long time. Maybe I am wrong, but so far so go...
Jimmy

[keystone9]

Thanks for the reply Jimmy. I'll look into that. Why would you not have the Chamm 2 recharge the new battery? I was also looking at the cabinet wiring and saw that I could add a plug adapter to a receptacle that stays hot when the game is powered off with the inside power switch that would keep the Chamm 2 powered up when the power is switched off at the inside cabinet switch. It would continuously keep the Chamm 2 powered up and displaying. I dont think it would draw much power when the game is not in use, and I do not know how it would affect the life of the Chamm 2 but on location they are always on. Also most people should and maybe do put the games on a external surge protector with a switch, if so they would have to switch the game off by the internal power switch and not the surge protector.     Thanks Bill

[poppo]

What I am trying is I found a Lithium camera battery at RS that outputs 3v at 3600ma!...Soldered wires to the battery (be very careful and scratch up the term. first and quickly solder the wires on it and use a diode to stop the ChamII from charging it)...Since the VL2020 is only rated at about 20ma, I figured 3600ma should last a long time. Maybe I am wrong, but so far so go...

That's pretty much the solution I've used for many rechargable battery backed up devices. Usually I just use a small battery holder that will hold a couple of standard AA or AAA batteries and use a diode to prevent it from charging. If the device is easily accessible, one can just swap the batteries while the unit is powered every couple of years.

Here is an old pinball board where I used a quad AAA holder and put the diode across where the 4th battery would go. The backup voltage usually does not matter as long as it's lower than the supply voltage (i.e. 5V) and higher than the minimum needed to retain memory. This setup gave me about 4V due to the voltage drop across the diode.

[Mr. Dinoman]

Because I don't keep the machine on all the time (sometimes for months) I did not want to have it try to charge the battery only a little bit...They tend to start memorizing the lowest voltage...After a couple years, I will just replace the battery with a new one...Might even add a quick disconnect so I can have the power on..First want to see how long it lasts...
The AA battery idea  I have used for pinballs (they use 3.6 v and not 3v like this battery)..Also, just FYI the battery I mentioned above is 3000mah not 3600...

Here is a link to RS battery I am using

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062137&clickid=prod_cs

Jimmy

[poppo]

The AA battery idea  I have used for pinballs (they use 3.6 v and not 3v like this battery)..

As I noted, the battery voltage really does not matter as long as it higher than the minimum needed for memory retention (or the low battery voltage detection circuit like on a S+) and less than the supply voltage. But one could easily just use 2 AA batteries if they really felt they wanted 3V.

In any case, the whole point is that one can easily substitute a higher capacity non-rechargeable battery. Just add the diode.

[Mr. Dinoman]

True, just wanted the higher mah to last longer than "AA"...Even Lith. "AA" are not as high as this battery...
Jimmy

[poppo]

True, just wanted the higher mah to last longer than "AA"...Even Lith. "AA" are not as high as this battery...
Jimmy

No doubt that one will. Like about 34 years (based on a typical 10ua standby current).

[StatFreak]

Regarding the previous discussions of having the unit recharge the battery, that won't happen unless you change the design. The stock watch battery installed at the factory cannot be recharged and sometimes has a nasty habit of exploding if one tries. They would not design the board to provide charging voltage to the battery while the unit was powered.

Although my story doesn't prove anything, I have my CHAMII+ plugged into the unswitched 110v socket inside my Proslot so it's powered whether my slot is on or not. However, I still lost all my settings the first time we had a power outage because the battery had gone dead sitting in a powered unit. That's happened twice now.


Poppo and I came up with the same idea of using standard AAs in a holder to increase the amperage available and thus increase the interval between changes. I thought briefly about using a AA 3.6v lithium, but the cost of standard AAs is so low that I felt it was a better solution. They should still last 5-8 years, or until full discharge, whichever comes first, and they can be replaced while the CHAMII+ is powered to prevent losing the settings.


Stat

[poppo]

Regarding the previous discussions of having the unit recharge the battery, that won't happen unless you change the design.

Then that simplifies things even more. I thought the battery in question was originally a rechargeable one. If it's not, then no diode is needed as it will already have one on board to prevent charging.

On the flip side, adding a charging circuit and using a rechargeable battery is also pretty easy. Just add a current limit resistor and a diode in series to the +5V.

[Mr. Dinoman]

If you read my post earlier and went to the website it show the battery is rechargeable and so does the panasonic website (which makes the battery)...I am not taking any chances on a battery exploding or leaking...A $.10 diode is a cheap save...
Jimmy

[poppo]

If you read my post earlier and went to the website it show the battery is rechargeable and so does the panasonic website (which makes the battery)...I am not taking any chances on a battery exploding or leaking...A $.10 diode is a cheap save...
Jimmy

What we are saying is that since the unit was never designed for a rechargeable battery (and does not by default have the circuitry to do charging) no diode is needed. Of course adding the diode won't hurt, but is not necessary in this case.  Adding a diode IS necessary if using a non-rechargeable battery where a rechargeable one is used (like on the pinball board I posted).

[StatFreak]

If you read my post earlier and went to the website it show the battery is rechargeable and so does the panasonic website (which makes the battery)...I am not taking any chances on a battery exploding or leaking...A $.10 diode is a cheap save...
Jimmy

I think you might have misunderstood.

The original CHAMII+ battery is not rechargeable; therefore the CHAMII+ board will not provide any current to the battery when the unit is powered. The replacement battery that you were looking at (from cellpacksolutions) IS rechargeable, which means that it won't be harmed if a charging voltage is applied.

If anything, putting a diode in place with a rechargeable battery would only prevent the battery from being charged – IF the board provided current to do so. Using a diode as inexpensive belt and braces would only make sense if you were to install a non-rechargeable battery, which of course, you've already done (when you installed the CR2032.)


Stat

P.S. It looks like poppo beat me to it.

[Mr. Dinoman]

I understand...What I had in my ChamII was a factory battery...A VL2020 by panasonic...The link about show it IS rechargeable...Are you saying that the manufacture just put in a rechargeable for S&G's ? ...Why not a replaceable cr2020 instead?...I do not have any schematics on the ChamII, so I could not research the wiring...If you have one, I would like to see it if possible...
Jimmy

[StatFreak]

I understand...What I had in my ChamII was a factory battery...A VL2020 by panasonic...The link about show it IS rechargeable...Are you saying that the manufacture just put in a rechargeable for S&G's ? ...Why not a replaceable cr2020 instead?...I do not have any schematics on the ChamII, so I could not research the wiring...If you have one, I would like to see it if possible...
Jimmy

Well, I've been searching my hard drive and can't find a schematic for the CHAMII+.   (BTW, the CHAMII is a different animal)

If that is the stock battery then you are 100% correct!      (Maybe mine didn't come with a stock batt?)


If you've already lost your settings, you could try to check for a charging voltage with the battery removed. 

Stat

[poppo]

If you've already lost your settings, you could try to check for a charging voltage with the battery removed. 

Even with a battery in, it is easy to check. Measure the battery voltage without power, and then measure it with power applied. If it's charging, it will be slightly higher with power applied.

[StatFreak]

If you've already lost your settings, you could try to check for a charging voltage with the battery removed. 

Even with a battery in, it is easy to check. Measure the battery voltage without power, and then measure it with power applied. If it's charging, it will be slightly higher with power applied.

Good point.

[StatFreak]

Sonoma Beach! It does provide a trickle charge of about 3.3v.

Mr. Dinoman, thank you for your digging and your persistence.    I'll have to give you more karma when the 12hr clock wears off.

We'll need to stop telling people to use standard watch batteries in these. The trickle charge may not cause them to come sailing through the glass, but it's certainly not doing them any good.


For giggles, I decided to check my battery charger and my NiMH charges 1.24v batteries at over 11v. (Different type of battery of course, and intended to quick charge.)


Stat

[poppo]

We'll need to stop telling people to use standard watch batteries in these.

Or just add a diode.

I still think the best solution since there is plenty of room is to just use a couple of AA or AAA batteries (with diode) and never have to worry about it again.

[Mr. Dinoman]

Thanks...the main thing is we can help other people...Also, if anyone has the schematic I still would like to see it...
Jimmy

[keystone9]

When I get a machine in my shop with a Chamm 2 the first thing I do is replace the battery with the correct new battery before I program the unit. When I solder in the battery it usually reads 2.6V. I leave it powered up on the bench for a few hours which brings it up to 3.1V, then I reprogram. I think that tells me the unit is charging the battery. Am I wrong? Thanks Bill

[poppo]

When I solder in the battery it usually reads 2.6V. I leave it powered up on the bench for a few hours which brings it up to 3.1V, then I reprogram. I think that tells me the unit is charging the battery. Am I wrong?

You are not wrong. That does indeed show it's charging.

I think what this discussion really comes down to is how long does the original type battery last? If these things are not lasting long when the unit is not powered up 24/7 like in a casino, then IMO one should consider putting in a larger capacity battery. It can either be a rechargeable or non-rechargeable (with a diode). One of those batteries Mr Dinoman used will last pretty much forever. But IMO a set of AAs will also probably last longer than many of us.

In my BetaBrite projects, the sign uses a 'super capacitor' to retain messages in memory. The docs say it will last up to 90 days without power. But one of mine was not lasting more than an hour or so. So I stuck in a set of AAAs with a diode and I can probably leave it sit for years unpowered without it losing anything.