Quick question about 3100 and hopper configuration

[poppo]

I had picked up a S+ as a spare parts machine. It was working for the most part before I stripped it down. I was cleaning up the hopper and ran it in one of my good machines. I was getting 3100 errors pretty often. So I checked the brake and it's fine. The knife was bent and letting coins get behind it. I'm not sure if that is what was causing the problem, but after fixing that it seems to be working ok. But while I had the bowl off, I noticed it has one of those spacer things along the bottom that I guess are used for $1 tokens/coins. So first, could the knife have been causing the 3100? And second, is there any harm in leaving that spacer on for a quarter machine? It seems to be picking up the coins ok. Oh, and it does have a quarter shelf and pinwheel.

[StatFreak]

The knife definitely could have been the cause of the errors.
I'm not sure if I understand what the spacer is.

[poppo]

I'm not sure if I understand what the spacer is.

The white part on the hopper on the right.

[stayouttadabunker]

I have a few S+ hoppers that have that white spacer too...
I do not think I have ever heard what it was ever designed for?

BTW we use quarters and it doesn't seem to have any effect on the errors codes we get.
Our main error problems stems from varying lengths of human hairs,
pieces of paper from the quarter wrappers,
dimes & pennies...

[poppo]

I do not think I have ever heard what it was ever designed for?

In another thread about a hopper issue I was having (not scooping up the last 50 or so coins), someone asked me if I had a spacer on the bowl. They said it was for the larger tokens/coins. I guess so they have more room to move around at the bottom of the bowl. I didn't think it would cause an error (other than a hopper empty) if the smaller coins can't get picked up by the pinwheel because there is too much room at the bottom.  It may be more of an issue when the hopper is almost empty. The machine this came out of was set up for dollar sized tokens at one point because I found one in the back.

[stayouttadabunker]

Well that kinda makes sense...
the spacer would make more allowance at the base of the bowl so maybe the
larger coins/tokens wouldn't get jammed at the bottom.

I've always seen the last few coins slanted or leaning the wrong way
and the pinwheel nibs just bumps the bottom of the coins but doesn't pick them up.

The other reason that particular code pops up is because of
the "amount of time" between the hopper optical eye reading a coin.
Too much time between a coin passing through the optics would also send a red flag to the MPU.
That's usually when I find a piece of human hair stuck onto the knife causing coins
to trip off the knife before going through the hopper optics.

[Buzz]

The other reason that particular code pops up is because of
the "amount of time" between the hopper optical eye reading a coin.
Too much time between a coin passing through the optics would also send a red flag to the MPU.
That's usually when I find a piece of human hair stuck onto the knife causing coins
to trip off the knife before going through the hopper optics.

Bunker wouldn't the above give you a 3300 error, not a 3100 ??????????

[stayouttadabunker]

The seven S+ hopper error codes are:

3100 : Extra Coin Out
3200 : Coin Jam In Hopper
3300 : Hopper Empty
34_0 : Hopper Optics Blocked
35_0 : Coin Out Reverse Direction Detected
36_0 : Coin Optic Exit Time Too Short
36_1 : Coin Out Exit Time Too Long

We almost never see the last four codes...I saw the 34_0 ONCE -
when a piece of coin wrapper paper was stuck in the optics.

A lot of the codes popping up depends on how the coin bounces around the optics sometimes.
It will throw the wrong code especially if the hopper motor brakes are screwy...
[3100] is almost always the brakes not catching in time due to worn out spring or broken motor shaft nib.

[poppo]

[3100] is almost always the brakes not catching in time due to worn out spring or broken motor shaft nib.

That is why I asked about it. Because all of the brake parts look fine.

[stayouttadabunker]

Another reason the hopper will throw the 3100 error code is the pinwheel nibs.
If you use a dollar or casino token sized pinwheel -
the coin will fall off the edge of the knife instead of stopping on top of it.
Also, the nibs themselves is too worn out and doesn't stop the coin from falling through the optics.

The larger value coin pinwheel nibs are too far apart or worn to stop the quarter from falling
through the optics when the brakes stop the motor's shaft.

You can see it in the 2nd short video clip below where I took the rubber band
off of the motor brakes.
You can also see the "coin bounce" I was talking about too...>>>

http://www.youtube.com/embed/GAkVj8olMHE?hl=en&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/embed/XH3N-prFZJ0?hl=en&fs=1

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/GAkVj8olMHE&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/GAkVj8olMHE&rel=0</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/XH3N-prFZJ0&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/XH3N-prFZJ0&rel=0</a>

[poppo]

Great videos. 

[Jim]

I doubt if the knife is causing the 3100, 99% of the problems with a 3100 error are related to the brake parts/motor housing being DIRTY.  usually a good test if the motor housing is dirty: press on the moveable arm that comes in contact with the housing, if it sticks , even one a second, that would cause the error.

so even if the parts look GOOD, if there dirty  that's your problem.  disassemble and clean the parts (especially where the pivot action takes place).

you will see the difference after you clean them, that includes the red part as well, clean the inside of the red part as well as the metal part it pivots on.

I'll bet your problem will go away.


Jim 

[poppo]

I'll bet your problem will go away.

The only thing is the problem has already gone away, and all I messed with was fixing the knife. I am wondering if because coins were getting behind it, it was causing the next coin to jump over and through the optics instead of sitting on top of the knife like Bunker's video shows it should. I can see hot it could cause the coin to 'wobble' and go past the nub.

In any case I was more curious about that spacer and leaving it on for quarters. Actually, while watching the hopper operate, it almost seems like the spacer works better for quarters as they don't tend to stack up side by side as much as a bowl without it.

[Jim]

you must of had a one in a million situation,  usually when I have a coin behind the knife, the knife is pushed far enough away from the shelf wheel that no other coins will make it onto the knife. they usually fall back into the hopper and generate a 3300 error.

yes the spacer is for dollar hoppers, doesn't hurt to let it on and run quarters. if you feel that it doesn't jam up the quarters, let it on, if not ,it can be removed. just drill out the pop rivets and remove, you will see it is just an add-on,  the bowl is now the same as a quarter bowl. you will have to remove the spacers on the four screws as well.

Jim

[stayouttadabunker]

Jim,
Can I ask you? There are four springs on the hopper bowl screws...
The two stiffer black hopper springs - do they go on the bottom two holes or the top two holes and why? 
Thanks! 

[poppo]

All of mine have had the black springs on the top. I assume that since they are designed to let the bowl give a little under pressure, that the the stiffer ones (black) would go on the top since there would be more weight pushing on the top than the bottom with a full hopper.

[stayouttadabunker]

All of mine have had the black springs on the top. I assume that since they are designed to let the bowl give a little under pressure, that the the stiffer ones (black) would go on the top since there would be more weight pushing on the top than the bottom with a full hopper.

Thanks Poppo...that makes sense! 

[poppo]

Thanks Poppo...that makes sense! 

But I don't know if it's the right answer. 

[stayouttadabunker]

Thanks Poppo...that makes sense!  

But I don't know if it's the right answer.  

  That's okay...It's good enough for me!  

ADD>>> I think originally there were two additional longer springs that pull the bowl towards the handle...
most of mine only came with one spring though...
Some ding dong somewhere forgot to re-install the other one
and probably threw them out in the trash...arghhh!

[StatFreak]

I have three S-plus hoppers. One has the black springs on the bottom, two have them on the top. My three Bally hoppers have black springs on the top and none on the bottom (different design).

Verdict: Bunker, you're more observant than the average slot technician.  
     OR:   2 out of 3 techs recommend black springs on top for their patients who use springs. 

Good job on those videos.


Stat

[stayouttadabunker]

I talked to my doctor and I stopped taking Cialis....

[Buzz]

I talked to my doctor and I stopped taking Cialis....

And all this time I thought Bunker was just being a hard nose, little did I know !!!   

[StatFreak]

I talked to my doctor and I stopped taking Cialis....

But wait! You said he recommended it after you posted this! 

See below:
Dollar Coin Comparitor

My doctor recommended Cialis...                                 (just kidding...lol)


uh...the little bumps are what we call "nibs" on a pinwheel... or "pins"?
...

I think you've got Cialis on the     


SF

[stayouttadabunker]

Funny thing is that never happened to me - you know...the part where I'm in the garden pulling out weeds,
bump into a girl and the house flips upside down into a seaside oasis with soft music playing in the background...  

[Buzz]

Funny thing is that never happened to me - you know...the part where I'm in the garden pulling out weeds,
bump into a girl and the house flips upside down into a seaside oasis with soft music playing in the background...  

Bunker   you must have thought it happened a couple of times.   HOW many Kids do you have ???????????????