S2000 payout % at the casino

[DannyG804]

Anyone have any idea how to find out what payout % a casino sets there s2000 at? 

Can you simply ask a slot tech or do you have to "know" someone who works there? What's this ad on tv claiming, "highest factory payout" or "certified hot"? Is this some bullshit or what?

Danny

[stayouttadabunker]

Is this some bullshit or what?
Danny

You've hit the nail on the head rather bluntly & to the point when
speaking of business tactics used by American Fortune 500 companies....

Yeah...try asking a floor technician and see what they say...lol
I can guarantee you'll get a whole punchbowl of various results!
I wonder if they will give you an honest answer at the "Help and Information" desk?  

I suppose another way to find out is to sticking a reset key in and putting the machine into accounting mode.
I strongly advise against this method though unless you like rooming with guys named "Butch and Smiley"...

[DannyG804]

I suppose another way to find out is to sticking a reset key in and putting the machine into accounting mode.
I strongly advise against this method though unless you like rooming with guys named "Butch and Smiley"...
[/quote]

LMFAO!! 

[Bettor Slots]

Here ya go:

[DannyG804]

I knew someone here would post something good. Thank you Jim 

[StatFreak]

Danny, I see you finally took my advice and posted. 

Here's my long-winded original answer that I had typed before telling you to post publicly. As I expected, someone posted the Vegas estimated numbers.
Keep in mind that individual machines within a casino can vary widely, even within one denomination.

Hi, I was wondering if you knew how I could find out or who I could ask what the payout % is on the slot machines I play at my local casino? Will they tell?!?!? 

Danny

No they won't. In addition, payback percentages vary, not only from denomination to denomination, but from machine to machine. Casinos will often sprinkle higher payback machines in the middle of lower paying ones. People have written books on trying to determine where a casino is most likely to put them, but the truth is that there is no set rule. Different casino and slot managers have different ideas and experiences and use different techniques.

Indian casinos typically (but not always) have lower-paying machines than Nevada or Atlantic City casinos. Savvy regular players in local areas often comment on slot player forums or other websites about their perceived opinions of local casinos. While individual experiences are too limited to make any reasonable assessment, the combined opinions of hundreds of players will probably give you a good idea of which casinos are paying better than their neighbors.

For Vegas and AC, there are published reports yearly which are compiled from corporate reported revenue and other sources, but I don't have those. If you post this question publicly, someone will probably have those figures for you. To get the information for your local casino(s), you'll need to let everyone know where you live and which casinos you frequent, and there still might not be any information available.

[Captain Hook]

Does anyone have any ideas on what the odds are on the machines up here

at Mohegan Sun  &  Foxwoods??  I have asked several Slot Techs and of course

they claim they don't know but of course we know all you need to do is look at

the accounting menu.

Captain Hook

[DannyG804]

CONNECTICUT
The following information is from Connecticut’s Division of Special Revenue regarding MGM Grand and Foxwoods’ slot payback percentages:

Denomination
 Payback %
 
1¢
 89.07
 
2¢
 90.38
 
5¢
 89.95
 
25¢
 91.68
 
50¢
 91.94
 
$1.00
 93.50
 
$5.00
 94.52
 
$10.00
 95.33
 
$25.00
 96.04
 
$100.00
 95.41
 
Average
 91.57
 

These figures reflect the total percentages returned by each denomination of slot machine from July 1, 2009 through June 30, 2010. Foxwoods’ total win on its slot machines during that year was slightly more than $652 million and of that amount 25%, or slightly more than $163 million, was paid to the state.

Here's information from Connecticut's Division of Special Revenue regarding Mohegan Sun's slot payback percentages:

Denomination
 Payback %
 
 
1/2¢ 85.66
1¢
 88.73
 
2¢
 88.66
 
5¢
 88.25
 
25¢
 91.04
 
50¢
 91.31
 
$1.00
 93.67
 
$5.00
 93.84
 
$10.00
 95.80
 
$25.00
 95.47
 
$100.00
 94.65
 
Average
 91.86
 

These figures reflect the total percentages returned by each denomination of slot machine from July 1, 2009 through June 30, 2010.

The total win on all of the Mohegan Sun slot machines during that period was slightly more than $749 million and of that amount 25%, or slightly more than $187 million, was paid to the state.

[uniman]

There is no way to tell what a particular slot is programmed for %payout*. For most casual players it doesn't matter that much. If your lucky and hit a good one you say "That's a great machine!" If you lose quickly, "That machine sucks, I'll never play it again!" Yet the sucky machine may have had a far better chip than the great one, just depends on your short term luck. The % payout is theoretical and is determined over millions of spins, not one evening in a casino.

I play slots, video poker, and keno. And like most I want the best odds for the game I'm playing. With video poker and keno the odds can be calculated by looking at the paytable, but not with slots. What I have found is, for the most part, I can judge a casino's overall % payout by checking out the video poker and keno. What I look for is video poker Jacks or Better with a 9/6 (full house/flush) payout. And then what denonmination is it available in. Quarters 9/6 ok, nickle 9/6 JB great! And then I check the video keno in nickles. Looking at a 4-spot if it pays 100 for four out of four than that's a 95% machine**, great for keno. If it's 91 for four out of four that's a 93%, not bad. Any less and I'm not happy playing it.
When I see the better video poker and keno, and plenty of them, I'm assuming the slots are, for the most part, better than average too. That's about as close as I can get to guessing the slot odds.  
 
Now when I see a gameking that doesn't have Jacks or Better and offers Bonus Poker with 4 aces paying 400 (max bet of 5) and two pair paying even money, I run!! That's a 94.18% machine, bad for video poker.

* Specific games like Mega Bucks and banks of games advertising % payout excluded
** Provided the 2 out of 4 and 3 out of 4 pay two credits and five credits respectively.

[kforeman]

I have asked several Slot Techs and of course they claim they don't know

Captain Hook

this is actually probably true.  consider this; i have a 10 pack of GameKings on my floor with 3 denoms and 12 games enabled per denom.  that would be 36 pars for me to know per machine and 360 pars for the bank; as others have mentioned each game isn't necessarily set up the same as the one right next to it.  obviously each bank isn't going to be so complicated but i would guess that for my 665 machine floor i probably have over 2 thousand different pars...way too many for me to accurately recall them all.    i know many of them and can give you a pretty close estimation on most but i would always refer to the accounting menu or the par sheet to be sure.

No they won't. In addition, payback percentages vary, not only from denomination to denomination, but from machine to machine. Casinos will often sprinkle higher payback machines in the middle of lower paying ones. People have written books on trying to determine where a casino is most likely to put them, but the truth is that there is no set rule. Different casino and slot managers have different ideas and experiences and use different techniques.

  we definitely have varying pars picked in each denom and floor location is always a factor when initially setting a bank up.

Indian casinos typically (but not always) have lower-paying machines than Nevada or Atlantic City casinos.

  based on the reports that have been provided above i would say my casino falls into the "not always" category.  since my compact mandated max bet is $25 we don't have the really high denom games but those numbers in NV are scary.  there isn't much on our floor that is under 90% no matter what the denom is.  in fact i set up a 1¢/2¢/5¢ poker bank about 18 months ago that is all 94% and up; gets played very well and makes us good money.    i've also got some high denom GameKing poker machines that are set at game 1 
i've heard from a very reliable source that Harrah's has a corporate policy that nothing is set above 92% no matter what the denom or max bet!! that's highway robbery!!

There is no way to tell what a particular slot is programmed for %payout*. For most casual players it doesn't matter that much. If your lucky and hit a good one you say "That's a great machine!" If you lose quickly, "That machine sucks, I'll never play it again!" Yet the sucky machine may have had a far better chip than the great one, just depends on your short term luck. The % payout is theoretical and is determined over millions of spins, not one evening in a casino.

   they all pay pretty close to what they are set at.  the AZ compact allows a 3% variance from the actual and the theoretical hold and we are audited by ADOG and our own compliance department quite often.  we have a big yearly audit from ADOG plus several random visits where the inspector picks 50 games and checks everything on them.  our compliance department also requires random inspections of anywhere from 30-60 games per month.  with these inspections i figure every game on our floor is audited at least once per year.  if any game is operating outside of the 3% variance it is investigated, we've only had one in the past 8 years that stayed outside of the 3% for more than a short time period; it was converted to a new theme when it wouldn't cooperate.

[poppo]

People have written books on trying to determine where a casino is most likely to put them, but the truth is that there is no set rule. Different casino and slot managers have different ideas and experiences and use different techniques.

I used to live in CA and went to Vegas frequently. From my purely unscientific observations, I found that the machines located near the entrance to the casino buffet seemed to pay out more frequently. No idea if there was any fact to it or what the logic would be. 

I also found that those machines that used to pay out with the $10 casino 'souvenir' tokens would pay out pretty often. Perhaps the logic on those was that people would keep the tokens and not cash them in (I kept a lot of them, so it did work).

[kforeman]

I used to live in CA and went to Vegas frequently. From my purely unscientific observations, I found that the machines located near the entrance to the casino buffet seemed to pay out more frequently. No idea if there was any fact to it or what the logic would be. 

i would venture a guess that those games were played more than most of the others.  the more games played the more it seems to land on winning combinations 

[StatFreak]

Indian casinos typically (but not always) have lower-paying machines than Nevada or Atlantic City casinos.

  based on the reports that have been provided above i would say my casino falls into the "not always" category.  since my compact mandated max bet is $25 we don't have the really high denom games but those numbers in NV are scary.  there isn't much on our floor that is under 90% no matter what the denom is.  in fact i set up a 1¢/2¢/5¢ poker bank about 18 months ago that is all 94% and up; gets played very well and makes us good money.    i've also got some high denom GameKing poker machines that are set at game 1 
i've heard from a very reliable source that Harrah's has a corporate policy that nothing is set above 92% no matter what the denom or max bet!! that's highway robbery!!

I was referring to slots more than VP, but I'm glad to hear that your casino pays fairly.   I don't know if your statement about Harrah's is true or not, but they currently seem to be the stingiest tightwad bean counters in the industry, so I wouldn't be too surprised.

...  they all pay pretty close to what they are set at.  the AZ compact allows a 3% variance from the actual and the theoretical hold and we are audited by ADOG and our own compliance department quite often.  we have a big yearly audit from ADOG plus several random visits where the inspector picks 50 games and checks everything on them.  our compliance department also requires random inspections of anywhere from 30-60 games per month.  with these inspections i figure every game on our floor is audited at least once per year.  if any game is operating outside of the 3% variance it is investigated, we've only had one in the past 8 years that stayed outside of the 3% for more than a short time period; it was converted to a new theme when it wouldn't cooperate.

I think it's important for home slot owners to understand the amount of play these machines get in a year. If they had the level of play found in most homes, one could not expect them to hold to a 3% variance on a regular basis.

I would also hope that when you discuss being outside of a 3% variance, you mean beyond the ranges stated in the volatility index in the PAR sheet for a given number of sample trials; otherwise, the machine might still be operating nominally.

Given that the volatility of games differs, do you mean 3% of the maximum expected variance, or a hard 3% payback above or below the expected value?

[kforeman]

I was referring to slots more than VP, but I'm glad to hear that your casino pays fairly.   I don't know if your statement about Harrah's is true or not, but they currently seem to be the stingiest tightwad bean counters in the industry, so I wouldn't be too surprised.

even our stepper slots and video slots average well above the NV list 

I think it's important for home slot owners to understand the amount of play these machines get in a year. If they had the level of play found in most homes, one could not expect them to hold to a 3% variance on a regular basis.

I would also hope that when you discuss being outside of a 3% variance, you mean beyond the ranges stated in the volatility index in the PAR sheet for a given number of sample trials; otherwise, the machine might still be operating nominally.

Given that the volatility of games differs, do you mean 3% of the maximum expected variance, or a hard 3% payback above or below the expected value?

i wish the compact allowed for expected variance to be factored in; if we set a game at theoretical 92.51% and it holds the actual at 95.52% for more than 30 days then we have to investigate.  this has only happened once and we converted it after 60+ days of staying outside of the plus/minus 3%

[DannyG804]

I appreciate everyone's $.02 on this thread.   I usually play the same machines when I go to the casinos. Yes, I've heard the "Try a different machine, that one's not paying tonight" or "Someone just won big on the machine you're playing..." from my family/friends or even other gamers next to me. Yet I believe that the odds of me hitting are almost the same if I stick to one or two all night vs jumping around. I might as well play my favorite games/themes, even if it's a losing night! The main reason for my OP was because I've heard that the Indian casinos hardly ever have to report #'s to us (the public). If their payout is at a minimum like 85% or some cases 75%??? Fuck that man, that's highway robbery  

I understand the volatility of some game themes. I tend to stick to ones that have low multipliers because I feel I have a chance to "play longer". One great example I got to witness was back in '07. This lady won blue 7 red 7 100X on a 3cm which equaled 7,500 credits. It was a hand pay - took about 20 minutes to pay her. So they make her spin the one time after they pay her and she leaves right after that. 2 seconds later MY DAD sits down on it, puts in a $20. I was like, "Dad, you can't be serious right now. She just cleaned that sucker out!" He was like, "So, let it eat a $20 or two". After about 10-12 spins he lands triple bar triple bar 100X which equaled 6,000 credits! That was a hand pay as well. So yeah, 13,500 credits all within $20 in. I've seen other ones similar to this too, but not as extreme as this one.

Some lady I used to see at the casino would always play the same exact machine every time, FOR HOURS. It was only a 2cm $.25 machine. She would claim she lost $500 and hit almost nothing... I wouldn't want to believe her. Then I'd see her a week later and she'd be like - I WON ALL MY MONEY BACK FROM LAST TIME AND THEN SOME! I've had almost every combination you can think of!!! After that, another losing streak, etc...

I understand none of us are gonna make a living by gaming on slots. I realize and accept that I will lose more than I'll ever win. I just don't want to be playing where the payback % is low as hell where as some places it's 92-95% payback on $.25 or $1 machines.  

Danny

[kforeman]

The main reason for my OP was because I've heard that the Indian casinos hardly ever have to report #'s to us (the public). If their payout is at a minimum like 85% or some cases 75%??? Fuck that man, that's highway robbery 

Danny

i really don't think you are any safer in NV casino's.  this is what the state compact stipulates for my Tribal casino, other states will probably vary.

2.3.17  Software Requirements for Percentage Payout.   During the expected lifetime of the game, including bonus games, each game shall theoretically payout a minimum of 80% for games requiring no skill and 83% for games of skill.  During the expected lifetime of the game, including bonus games, the video game of keno shall theoretically payout a minimum of 75%.

i have heard that NV and NJ hardly have any regulatory requirements; i don't even know if they have a minimum payout rule.  in my opinion you are safer playing at a highly regulated tribal casino versus a facility where the slot manager can do whatever he wants at any time.  for me to change a par on a game i have to give ADOG 30 days notice and leave the machine out of service until one of their inspectors verifies that i set it where i said i would set it.  the idea of tightening games up for the weekend promotion isn't possible for us.  i have to test every game attached to a link progressive to make sure each machine increments independently.  i can't even pull an mpu board without a key that only the tribal gaming inspectors have and the eye in the sky verifying that they are watching me.  i think AZ is one of the most strictly regulated states; this is the only compact i really know but there are at least some rules that all tribal casinos have to follow, better for the player than the "good old boys" in NV and NJ who can set games as low as they want and change them anytime.
i've heard that some of the casinos in the Phoenix area hang out a lot closer to the minimum requirements, they can do that with the size of the city to support them.  my casino isn't near any large cities so we have to pay back better to get the repeat business; we aren't anywhere near the minimums. 

[jdkmunch]

Here ya go:

Does anyone know if this is just the average of machine play and if their is a minimum payout?

Can two machines  70% and a 90% average out to 80% on the list?

[Bettor Slots]

Here ya go:

Does anyone know if this is just the average of machine play and if their is a minimum payout?

Can two machines  70% and a 90% average out to 80% on the list?

These are averages.  Payout percentage will vary with casino.  Using the "Strip" percentages as an example, I guarantee you higher percentages of payouts at Gold Coast and Imperial Palace than you will ever see at say Bellagio and Paris.  And as someone else mentioned above, even within a single casino location, the same machine type located in various parts of the casino could have different percentages of payout.

[pala]

good info to know next time i go to camp verde

[IFFV68]

I was playing a machine in Central City & hit something like $80.00. I played it a couple more times & asked a Floor person if she could do the history because I thought I had received an incorrect payout.
She said OK & explained what she was doing. It was a S+ & I saw the SS chip#. I looked it up & it was 94%.  She didn't mention the %.
My wife had won $400.00 on the same machine a couple of months earlier.
We don't always win on this machine but usually get quite a few plays. 
The machine is a three reel, two coin, 3x2x & $.25. Round Top.
Remember, no matter what the % is , it's all luck.
How many times it was played  before you play it??
 

[poppo]

Remember, no matter what the % is , it's all luck.
How many times it was played  before you play it??
 

Yeah. The one and only time I ever played a $1 machine was at the Stratosphere. Put in $100, 100 pulls, and never hit anything at all. 

[DannyG804]

94% payback at a casino is good if you ask me... that happens to be one of my fav themes! where's this casino at again?? 

[stayouttadabunker]

94% payback at a casino is good if you ask me... that happens to be one of my fav themes! where's this casino at again??  

Try Google maps...>>>